RE: Private Hives and 'The Rules' - (Update from Rocket inside)

[Anton17 97]

Since there seems to be different responses each time this question is asked, I'd like to clarify what the rules are pending private hives/servers/databases. I know passwording servers is generally not allowed (?) but some have passwords in the server name (I assume to prevent hackers/bots).

Some background on why I play private hives:

After my first few days of playing and being frustratingly slaughtered at the hands of Cherno and Elektro, I took a vow to live off in the wilderness as a lone wolf, sort of a DayZ new player's rite of passage. I stayed to myself, approached towns only at an absolute must and avoided other players at all costs. I got lucky with gear and loot and also teamed up with other players out of game and managed to get my hive character some pretty damn good gear and capable of surviving alone. However, two downsides: loneliness is boring and too intense, and I was way too inexperienced with the game and/or other players.

I was daydreaming of being able to have another character or account that would allow me to get used to the engine, the loot, the towns, the gameplay and most of all, other players, without the nasty learning curve that I would be sure to incur when running around with end-game gear. I stumbled upon private hives accidentally (used to be ANZ 7 and 8 until they strangely merged with the main hive, when questioning the admin he thought I was crazy, even though myself and more than 4 friends had the 'new player' effect of a private hive). I managed to get what I was seeking out of playing a little less stressed out and get myself accustomed to the unfairly steep learning curve of that quirky Arma2 engine and DayZ itself.

My experience of private hives has been mostly that of a deathmatch. Nobody has anything to lose and its pretty much a shoot-em-up in the two skull-piled starting towns. I was okay with this. This was what I needed to get up my experience of PVP and how to use weapons effectively. I still need practice with Snipers, but that's besides the point. I tried another private hive server a couple of days ago that had formed its own colony esque community, complete with bandits, friendlies and new guys, but they had side-chat enabled (such a lovely feature, I have no idea why it was removed) and their very own regulars. Much more friendly people here than usual, but I still got laid to rest by Enfield-wielding-nihilists. After this, I joined my regular care-free private hive server, and I think this latest DayZ patch has brought many more people choosing the friendly route. I encountered a player in Cherno church, asked if he was friendly, got no response, asked several times and said I'd shoot if he didn't respond, then got a reply from his friend, I didn't know was inside the church. Turned out there were 3 people in there, all American, all friendly, all clearly new-guys. They all had weapons and an ALICE pack on one of them, but they had no idea where to go for better loot, for food, for hospital supplies, or even how to combat a Zed. I lead them through Cherno, reviving and healing them as they struggled with irrational zombie AI and showing them the supermarket and hospital as we stocked up and left town. I wanted to go to Balota, since that's the easiest place for newbies and mid-range gear, but they were saying it was having huge graphical glitches. I decided to take them up north towards Starry. I had only a compass. I located the barns up north from Cherno, without following roads and coming straight out from a forest. I then located that nearby lake. I then took them up the Zeb castle and promised the possibility of Ghillie suits. I had chosen not to use my mic since just using text seems to give you a bit more character and they seemed like usual Americans. They kept commenting on how I was now strangely the leader of the group, that jesus must have brought me to them since I met them in the church. Everytime I stopped to talk, they stopped. When I went for a building to loot, they followed. When they were doing something else and I went off running, they went to catch up with me. I knew what buildings had what loot and where to go on the map all with the use of a compass and experience. I felt like a veteran. I took them to Starry and got them armed up, before they all logged and I went on up to Devil's Castle. I honestly think I made a huge influence on their first impressions of DayZ. I had surprised myself with my knowledge, navigation and strategy planning.

It never would have happened if I wasn't able to make that point that you're supposed to lose your gear, since on a private hive it didn't matter... I was able to just play. Now I'm at a stage that I'm comfortable to explore on my hive-character. Non-hive servers gave me a beneficial learning experience. Huh.

Rocket has said that servers that lock/password servers is not allowed since it allows players to abuse Admin rights and loot in their own server for end-game gear risk free, to then join another hive server with said gear equipped but that isn't relevant on a private hive since they're not connected. I understand servers can be blacklisted (has it ever happened?) but are there any penalties or dangers for players that choose to play on private hives, intentionally or unintentionally?

UPDATE FROM ROCKET:"... recommend at the moment to do private servers for the live streams. And that actually brings up a good issue because a lot of people have been asking for the ability to create private servers or separate hives and things like that. And I think that's something we need to seriously think about as well going forward, um... you know I wanted to keep it like it is at the moment to get the message out there, to say: "This is a multiplayer game!", to the people we could use for financing and things like that. If they saw that the idea could be taken as a single-player game then they would have gone for that. So what we've done here is we've, you know the gamers have spoken and said "we wanna see more of this", so... we don't have to worry about that so much. So I think that we can probably come to some solution here and in the short term that would help with the hacking".

Transcribed from his livestream with Machinima:

In a nut shell that means he was worried that private hives/servers would have been abused for the "private" function, aka having a server to yourself with 1/50 players so you can experience the game as a single-player mode, which goes against his "vision" that people like so much to misquote and misinterpret. Hope that clears up some of the broken-record responses about taking things Rocket has said and twisting them around to suit your cause.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Anton17

[Doctor_sloth 119]

In all honesty, I don't see how or why Rocket would want to stop them. It doesn't hurt any body, and the loot is non-transferable. Though he did pitch a hissy fit about the single player mod, so it wouldn't surprise me if they figured out some dumb-ass way to combat non-hive servers.

[noobfun 87]

private hive is private hive, the owner of said hive can set any rules they want

they can say 'no one but hackers allowed', 'all players names must contain the word jam'

theres no problem switching between the two, you get essentially two different charachters, your official may have say m107 and ghuillie, then when you log into the private hive you have what ever gear youve farmed up on that database which could be an m4 sd

becasue they are seperate the gear you have on 1 will not magically appear on the other, dying on one doesnt effect the other

Rocket can only blacklist official servers, he removes thier access to the hive server, he cant however remove someones access from thier own db

[Swineflew 480]

In all honesty, I don't see how or why Rocket would want to stop them. It doesn't hurt any body, and the loot is non-transferable. Though he did pitch a hissy fit about the single player mod, so it wouldn't surprise me if they figured out some dumb-ass way to combat non-hive servers.

Because they ruin the whole point of why the game was developed?

Maybe that has something to do with it.

[Nalestom 116]

I play primarily on a non-hive server, simply because I needed a little bit more experience with the mod before venturing into hive servers - similarly to your scenario. However, now that I've played for a few weeks on this non-hive server, I really don't have a lot of motivation to leave. The thing that hive servers lack is a sense of community. Since there's only a handful of servers that share the private database, you become quickly acquainted with who's a bandit, who's a friendly, and who is part of which group. We've had multiple small wars between campsites thus far, and I can confidently say that I'm having the time of my life.

If I had decided to stick with hive servers, I may just have quit the game after a few days of fruitlessly trying to become acquainted with the mod. Fortunately, I discovered the non-hive servers.

[Nalestom 116]

Because they ruin the whole point of why the game was developed?

Maybe that has something to do with it.

Please explain how a private database ruins the point of the game.

[Anton17 97]

I play primarily on a non-hive server, simply because I needed a little bit more experience with the mod before venturing into hive servers - similarly to your scenario. However, now that I've played for a few weeks on this non-hive server, I really don't have a lot of motivation to leave. The thing that hive servers lack is a sense of community. Since there's only a handful of servers that share the private database, you become quickly acquainted with who's a bandit, who's a friendly, and who is part of which group. We've had multiple small wars between campsites thus far, and I can confidently say that I'm having the time of my life.

If I had decided to stick with hive servers, I may just have quit the game after a few days of fruitlessly trying to become acquainted with the mod. Fortunately, I discovered the non-hive servers.

Totally agree. Its because you're forced to use just that one server if you want to use that gear. In turn, you have to use just that one server and meet all the neighbors that have to use it too. Then you sort of realise its not because you have to use that server for your character's gear, but because you want to use that server, full-stop.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Anton17

[Swineflew 480]

Please explain how a private database ruins the point of the game.

Thankfully your little story about hive servers being too hard to play on did a great job of explaining it for me.

[Nalestom 116]

Totally agree. Its because you're forced to use just that one server if you want to use that gear. In turn, you have to use just that one server and meet all the neighbors that have to use it too. Then you sort of realise its not because you have to use that server for your character's gear, but because you want to use that server, full-stop.

Precisely. For the past few weeks, the group I've aligned myself with has been fighting a massive vehicle war with another group of bandits. Because I know everybody's name (including my enemy's!) I feel a lot more motivated to find and kill them. The war became personal. I'm not killing them for the loot, nor am I killing them to tally up more murders on my current life; I'm killing them because I want to see them dead.

[Nalestom 116]

Thankfully your little story about hive servers being too hard to play on did a great job of explaining it for me.

I never claimed that hive servers are too hard to play on. In essence, there's no difference between the two - on a non-hive server, I still have to constantly watch my ass when I raid Cherno hospital. There are still plenty of people out there who want to see my dead, survival is just as difficult as it is on a non-hive server. The major difference between a private database and the public database is that the private database creates a sense of community.

[BrettHarrenton 29]

Why not play arma to get used to combat?

[WhiteTigerShiro 25]

Please explain how a private database ruins the point of the game.

Because the main reason why Rocket put the game into an open alpha was to test HIS hive and see how it could handle capacity. The more people playing on private hives, the fewer people who are using Rocket's hive, and thus the less data he has on what it can handle.

[Anton17 97]

Thankfully your little story about hive servers being too hard to play on did a great job of explaining it for me.

I think you missed the point.

I understand what you mean about the game needing to be hard and challenging, but there's a limit to this. I can fairly say that the new player-base probably has no experience with Arma2 or its engine before and it takes a hell of a lot of fucking around before you have even a clue of what you're doing. Playing standard Arma for experience just ain't the same after DayZ.

The point isn't about difficulty, even though that might be the reason that one joins a private server. What Nalestom said wasn't about joining, it was about staying. There is nothing tying you to the hive servers when everyone wants to kill each other, your character can be transferred and vehicles/loot are all taken, that's why we have the server hopping Alt F4'ers around, because there is no reason to stay on one server. If your character is locked onto one server, you get just as much difficulty, I can assure you... and after you're there for a while, you stand to lose just as much as ever. The key thing here, is that when your character dies, you don't lose the people on the server and the community built there, since you can't just disconnect and choose another deathmatch.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Anton17

[SilenceSoLoud 34]

I played on non hive for a day or so and enjoyed it quite a bit. they seemed to perform better in all honesty. Plus I liked the idea that you dont have to worry about server hopping looters/farmers. The community aspect seems awesome as well. Ive really been hoping to come across a private community to join up with for sake of RP, organized events and such. Theres so much you could do with a private, pw, non hive server with the same group of 25-40 people you game with everyday that you couldnt do on the hive due to dbaggery, hackers, etc.

Camp wars, RPing, "questing" type deals setup on the forums (ie- first group to gather "x" and bring it to "y" gets "z" for a reward), these are all things that I feel like could give a deeper experience in the game but far less likely to be accomplished on everyday, common servers.

[Anton17 97]

Because the main reason why Rocket put the game into an open alpha was to test HIS hive and see how it could handle capacity. The more people playing on private hives, the fewer people who are using Rocket's hive, and thus the less data he has on what it can handle.

Had never considered this. Very valid point. Will take this into consideration.

[disorder 344]

I run a private on and off, anyone is welcome to join. The rules are basically 1 no pvp unless accidental. 2 no hacking. 3 no hoarding

As others have mentioned, your gear will be separate.

Edited July 29, 2012 by disorder

[Nalestom 116]

Because the main reason why Rocket put the game into an open alpha was to test HIS hive and see how it could handle capacity. The more people playing on private hives, the fewer people who are using Rocket's hive, and thus the less data he has on what it can handle.

And, as we've all seen, sometimes Rocket's hive is a laggy sonofabitch that is unbearable to play on.

And I know that the mod is in alpha, and we should expect latency and performance issues. But at the end of the day, I want to play DayZ, and I can't play DayZ if it takes me a solid 20 seconds to see gear that I'm looting actually enter my inventory.

Private hives perform better most of the time and build a sense of community among a group of players. The public hive simply doesn't do that - you have to go out of your way (or get extremely lucky while looting and stumble upon a friendly survivor) to find a group of people to play with. In a private hive, groups of people come together naturally to fight a common enemy.

[Sarge4206th 6]

The whole non passworded server things and non-private play server thing and the responses of this community shows an amazing lack of vision by most of you.

Lets use diablo II as an example.. Hardcore mode, a hardcore player was under a VERY simular situation to a dayz player. A hostile world with just one life to live.

Private play was permitted in diablo II for all Hardcore players, and much like DayZ people would farm the best gear and then go pvp. However this never changed the fact that they still had one life to live.

My public playing pvp character died and killed due to the one fact that diablo II and DayZ share. Anyone can kill anyone if they are armed. In Arma if you get the drop on ANYONE you will win.

Perhaps its this way for server testing perhaps Rocket has another motive but, the longer things are restricted the more of his testing base will divert to outside and private areas. But you never know, that could be what he wants.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Sarge4206th

[Swineflew 480]

Keep playing in your private bubble missing the whole point of the dayz experiment.

Glad you guys like the game enough to try and ruin it.

[NobodieCro 11]

Private server :

NO server hopping

COMBAT DC = BAN

HACKERS = maybe 1-2 in a month

FRIENDLY community

LESS TIMES wasted on Loading screen

GAIN respect , or be hated due your deed.

Rockets hive :

Hackers

Combat DC

Server Hop

Waste all day wait all day on loading screen

Noone knows you or gives a fuck who you are

I had a friend who was able to kill everyone in a server with one command or spawn F35 , Apache etc... He was able to hack on Rockets Hive server but when he tried entering the Private server I was playing , he was automaticlly kicked from the server .

[disorder 344]

Keep playing in your private bubble missing the whole point of the dayz experiment.

Glad you guys like the game enough to try and ruin it.

And what might that experiment be? Creating a new compound or a mixture? The double slit experiment? schrodinger's cat? Oh I'm sorry that last one was a theory.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Albert Einstein

Edited July 29, 2012 by disorder

[Nalestom 116]

Keep playing in your private bubble missing the whole point of the dayz experiment.

Glad you guys like the game enough to try and ruin it.

You mock us for playing in our "private bubble," as you say, but you offer no logical reasons for your dissent.

I'm having fun in my private bubble. So is everybody else in the server. Is that so bad? It's not affecting you at all, in any way.

[MikeCrick 8]

Thanks for posting this, didn't even know these servers were around. I think I'll enjoy having a character on one of these servers, the idea of knowing the type of people who are around etc. is very appealing to me.

However I love the random and chaotic nature of the hive servers, so I'll keep playing those as well :)

Love how it's always one or the other on these forums haha.

Edited July 29, 2012 by MikeCrick

[Nalestom 116]

Thanks for posting this, didn't even know these servers were around. I think I'll enjoy having a character on one of these servers, the idea of knowing the type of people who are around etc. is very appealing to me.

However I love the random and chaotic nature of the hive servers, so I'll keep playing those as well :)

Love how it's always one or the other on these forums haha.

Oh, I play on both hive and in my non-hive server, depending on what I feel like.

Just keep in mind...People are just as trigger-happy in private databases as they are in the public one. It's just that there are usually larger groups of people that are banded together, fighting other groups of people.

It's difficult to explain, but if you stick with it, you'll learn to love it.

[Swineflew 480]

This thread makes me so sad to see the direction dayz could head.

I can't explain it better than rocket has multiple times.

You're taking a groundbreaking game that has a legit chance at success and showing him that it doesn't work and only games that don't really penalize you for making mistakes or playing dumb can succeed.

Instead of letting players balance the game (politics of a post apocalyptic society is what I think rocket calls it) themselves you cut yourself off from the populace and defy that whole concept of the game. You're not really interested in the evolution of player interaction or how the games progresses at all. You only care about your server and forget everything else.

All I can hope for is that people like you don't ruin this game for the people who want to play it the way it was intended and that he sticks with the "core" of his vision for the game.