Why do people argue that the new guns are more realistic?

[Sakeoe (DayZ) 115]

Sup

Just wondering reall quick, how can people claim the new gun change is more realistic? (yes im aware its not a dayz change btw).

Lets look at the m1911 for example. Sure it oneshotting a zombie may not have been realistic, but this had nothing to do with the damage value but rather with the zombie hp. On players the damage was realistic, the m1911 did 4500 damage whereas a player has 12000 blood. So with purely bodyshots a m1911 would kill a player with 3 shots which is a pretty realistic number.

Now with the new gun change the m1911 does 1389 damage, which means to kill a player you would need a total of 9 shots (8.6 shots, but you can't fire a 0.6 round nomsayin?). This is more than a entire magazine. How is this in any way more realistic?

Let's take it even further. Look at the mp5. It now does a total of 889 damage. This means that in order to kill a player you have to fire a total of 14 bullets! 14! That's gigantic, it's completely unrealistic!

So how can people claim that this change made it more realistic?

[Welkin Gunther 0]

Headshots are now more important in gunfights. But maybe they will change the damages to normal sometime.

[Greenhound 33]

Agreed.

While the change was operated by ArmA II, rather than the DayZ mod itself, you would have thought BHI would have taken into consideration as to how it would affect DayZ, their primary source of traffic by far.

[Sakeoe (DayZ) 115]

Headshots are now more important in gunfights. But maybe they will change the damages to normal sometime.

Yeah ofcourse you can solve it with headshots, but that isn't the point. Isn't Arma 2 supposed to a realistic military simulator? Having to make headshots all the time has nothing to do with realism but is just a simple call of duty/battlefield playstyle that should not be in this game.

Agreed.

While the change was operated by ArmA II, rather than the DayZ mod itself, you would have thought BHI would have taken into consideration as to how it would affect DayZ, their primary source of traffic by far.

Honestly no one knows why BHI did this. The actual ArmA II players seem to be quite mad about it on their forums and rage that the change was made for DayZ casuals and that DayZ is now runing their game.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Sakeoe

[NoRegrets 495]

Haha ... even if they would have made the guns stronger the same guys would say "its more realistic"

there are a lot of morons around who love to love everything thats new even if its bullshit

[Tigger (DayZ) 24]

I think it's just dumb. I would have no problems if they upped the zombie HP to 15000, but turning .45 ACP into a .22 is just stupid.

[Disgraced 1123]

Isn't that a question for Bohemia Interactive?

It's ironic, though. The supposed saving grace of this buggy game with awkward controls has always been "realism".

But it seems to get less and less realistic all the time.

No endurance- I can run forever.

No encumbrance- I can carry how many full Jerry cans? And tires...

I would expect a realistic bullet model to be something more than x hit points per hit. That's just lame.

[John69 64]

I have to restrain myself, this is moore than a gentleman can bare...... welcome to alpha testing

[gizm0 96]

I fine with it because this change will hopefully lead to more intense firefights in my groups custom missions.

[kristoferen 10]

Headshots are now more important in gunfights. But maybe they will change the damages to normal sometime.

Headshots may be more important, but zombies are way too glitchy for headshots. I've emptied a clip into a zombies head and nothing. Maybe its lag, but headshots are not something I can really aim for because 4/5 they don't work..

[takfar@gmail.com 24]

I have to restrain myself, this is moore than a gentleman can bare...... welcome to alpha testing

This has nothing to do with alpha testing. It was a change made by an official arma 2 patch.

[flexho 78]

Fuck realism, i want the game to be fair. Maybe oneshot pistols were a abit unbalanced, but 3 shot? come on man... that's not fair. The way the infected behave, is one problem. Now you force us to get a headshot, which is quite hard to get already. The way the infected runs... is damn retarded.

[Sakeoe (DayZ) 115]

Isn't that a question for Bohemia Interactive?

It's ironic, though. The supposed saving grace of this buggy game with awkward controls has always been "realism".

But it seems to get less and less realistic all the time.

No endurance- I can run forever.

No encumbrance- I can carry how many full Jerry cans? And tires...

I would expect a realistic bullet model to be something more than x hit points per hit. That's just lame.

It's not a question to Bohemia Interactive. In the threads on this forum about the change I see people claiming that the game is now "more realistic". With this thread I want to ask in a global question how in any way they can think it is more realistic now.

I have to restrain myself, this is moore than a gentleman can bare...... welcome to alpha testing

This change has nothing to do with alpha testing, thanks for your great intelectual contributions to this thread.

I fine with it because this change will hopefully lead to more intense firefights in my groups custom missions.

This change does not make firefights more intensive but rather leads to people simply not even picking up certain weapons and stick with weapons that have not been nerfed.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Sakeoe

[nucleqrwinter@gmail.com 156]

Doesn't feel more balanced, more realistic or more authentic.

It's bad and those who say it isn't are the ones who would say the same about anything else, Rocket could add anything and they still would defend it. Don't mind these guys. (I know it's an Arma patch and Rocket didn't do anything.)

Edited July 28, 2012 by Nucleqrwinter

[@ndreas 15]

... I have never felt ArmA2 to be overly realistic with combat, cover, fatigue, weapon and bullet-stuff.

Regarding that, it still has to be measured with Red Orchestra (1 or 2 (classic/realism setting) IMHO.

Bearing that in mind, almost every weapon in DayZ seems very low to me.

In realistic circumstances, having ONE bullet anywhere in your body would pretty much prevent you from doing anything except screaming and bending madly, I suppose...

[Kyrator 11]

RO2 is indeed much more realistic in some aspects but not so much in others.

Like when you try to aim and if a bullets flies beside you your aim shakes for no reason.

[Druig 7]

I dont know maybe its not very realistic for the pistols, but i like the new damage numbers as they add more gun balance overall.

[arx 61]

I call bullshit on this being an Arma change. It's DayZ. Of course the easiest thing of all to change is the stats of weapons. It's a few changes of numbers in a textfile don't you know. It's a DayZ thing. If they dont roll it back i for one am getting the fuck outta here

[JerFeelgood 34]

Damage and realism.

Do you know what actually causes instant death in a human? Catastrophic shock to the central nervous system (brainstem headshot).

Most other physiological pathways to ultimate death involves either bloodloss or cns deprivation of oxygen. And all of them take an amount of time relative to the nature of the injury. Granted, various factors will induce shock with varying degrees of disability (unconsciousness, low bp and its side-effects, etc. etc.). Now if I shoot you 20 times in the lower leg with an assault rifle and you (or someone nearby) quickly applies a tourniquet, then that will massively increase the survivability of the injury.

Now logically with realism as a goal, what is required here, is bullet pathing and damage multipliers. Guns should give a really low damage number. Where they impact upon the body and it's multiplier decides final damage quantity and arbitrary effects (shock, unconsciousness, pain, and rate of sustained bloodloss). This should be the goal for realisms sake, and could be coded into the engine.

I question however whether my argument here is completely outwith the scope of the required accuracy of the environment...

Edited July 28, 2012 by JerFeelgood

[peacekeep3r 0]

normally one bullet into the chest/head no matter from which weapon should make you unable to fight back. maybe for some seconds..

for gameplay iam ok if i need 3 bullets with a .45. but a whole magazine is rediciolous.

how can anyone survive 14 9mm bullets. that would almost cut you in half.

i tried to kill a player with my m9. he didnt see me but moved after firing my first bullets. i needed to reload and used almost 30 bullets.

edit: i like the ideas from the guy above me.

multipliers are the key and its the way its done in most games. for example head x5; body x3; arms, legs, hands x1 but with unsteady aim. crippled legs whatever

Edited July 28, 2012 by Peacekeeper

[Kyrator 11]

I call bullshit on this being an Arma change. It's DayZ. Of course the easiest thing of all to change is the stats of weapons. It's a few changes of numbers in a textfile don't you know. It's a DayZ thing. If they dont roll it back i for one am getting the fuck outta here

*Facepalm*

DayZ uses all the weapons from ARMA without altering them,the mod doesn't affect weapons at all so how the fuck is it a DayZ change?

[ZakTurbo 3]

In before "QQ adapt or die faggit" by the Rocket Dick Sucking Force.

The weapon nerf doesn't make sense, case in point being that the .303 british now deals 6722 damage but the 7.62x51 deals 8000 damage even though they are pretty much the same in size and energy? 5.56x45 SD doing the same damage as normal 5.45x39? Bullshit. Am I playing a simulator or babbys first battlefield? If people want 'balanced' weapons then go play BF3 because clearly you don't see the point of a military simulator.

The only people defending these changes are ones with high tier gear going around Cherno shooting at noobies because now the only counters to that playstyle (.45 and clever positioning or the Enfield) have been nerfed to uselessness.

[Shaimou 49]

The new gun damage nerf is absolutely stupid. Before the patch it took 5 pellet rounds from a shotgun to kill a player at close range. Now it will take an entire clip? Welcome to Battlefield. Let us have a blood regeneration when not taking damage after 16 seconds. What are the ARMA2 devs thinking?

Only change Im happy with is the Lee Enfield, that thing was ridiculous.

[John69 64]

*Facepalm*

DayZ uses all the weapons from ARMA without altering them,the mod doesn't affect weapons at all so how the fuck is it a DayZ change?

Nice to know..thanks :)