vehicle "hoarding", what the hell is it?

[Izziee 128]

This has been clogging up in my nerve central and I have to get it out of my system.

Time to time we see threads about vehicle hoarding, how it's unfair and ruining the game play for others, such as casuals. Every time this topic is discussed or viewed we get a rather large influx of people posting and playing the blame game.

This just seems rather ridiculous to me and so I made this topic, to humbly ask for an explanation that would clarify to me how it's unfair exactly, and how is it ruining anyone's play time, casual or not.

I'll try to sum up in a simple example how my mind comprehends the vehicle situation, and it goes like this:

Vehicle 1 has a spawn point at location A.

Vehicle 2 has a spawn point at location B.

Vehicle 3 has a spawn point at location C.

Person 1 finds vehicle 1 at A and moves it to a camp site far north, being location D.

Person 1 also finds vehicle 2 at B and moves it to the same camp site at location D. He's now effectively "hoarding" vehicles.

Person 2 finds vehicle 3 at C and drives around until someone shoots him and the fate of the car is unknown.

Person 3 finds vehicles 1 and 2 at location D and proceeds to take vehicle 1 and shoot out the tyres off vehicle 2 for shits n giggles.

Now explain to me, what is the difference between person 2 and person 3? How has the person 1 influenced the process of finding a vehicle for them? Because it would seem to me, the only thing that changed is the location from A and B to location D.

What difference does it make if a person finds a vehicle at D instead of A, B or C? My common sense is saying that the answer is absolutely nothing. It actually seems that person 3 is happier than person 2 because he found 2 vehicles instead of 1 even if he only took one. Chances are he found a good camp site with tents filled with good lewt. He also has the satisfaction of ruining someones day good n proper.

I'm going to say it like this: You can't hoard vehicles. You could when it was possible to park them 15km outside of the map, but now that you can't do it anymore, all vehicles are on the visible map for anyone to stumble upon, be it location A, B, C or D.

Argue me please.

PRETTY COLOURS!

[ZomboWTF 527]

the problem is that the camps are often way out, and some vehicles are really hard to track, like bicycles and motorcycles

normally vehicles spawn near buildings or streets, but when someone moves them to somewhere no one ever travels through, how the hell would someone find them?

oh sure, someone says "lets go and search every forrest in chernarus to find a car" you really think someone would spend 50+ hours searching the whole map?

also, the persons hoarding the cars often aren't even on the server, if the people hoarding vehicles would actually DRIVE them, i'd have no problem with that since its risky to drive around in the car, making you easier to track, but placing the cars at god knows where and never using them is like living in chernarus outskirts on a watersource and animals and saying "im teh best gamer of all times! i survived 50 days without getting killed!"

edit: speaking in terms of your example, spots A,B, and C are easy to find and in places players tend to go, but D is almost impossible to find if not intentionally searching for hidden camps

Edited July 28, 2012 by Zombo

[*=LP=*Cpt.Kawa 57]

Vehicle hoarding= Having more vehicles then needed. You only have 6 people in your clan? A uaz is good enough. You only have 2 people in your clan? a Pickup is good enough. If you have more then that, consider yourself hoarding.

And you are what, part of the central committee?

[drake_hb@hotmail.com 22]

I see and somewhat agree with both sides of the argument. Those that "hoard" have put time and effort into grabbing vehicles and probably repairing, and refueling them to the max. However, a group of 5 with more than three vehicles is rather dickish (IMHO you shouldn't be running around solo anyway in this game, especially in a large target like a vehicle). So how do we solve this?

1. All land vehicle spawns are randomized along all roads! You'll find "cars" along the paved roads, ATVs, Tractors, on unpaved roads.Trucks and military vehicles will be found along all roads (Military vehicles will be found at military installations as well). A bus will ALWAYS spawn in the larger cities when it spawns. Motorcycles will spawn everywhere, near roads of course.

This will make them easier to find initially, and a randomized spawn location will help prevent farming of them, making finding them more luck of the draw and not who got on the server first.

2.Vehicles must have fuel in their tanks.If they don't have fuel in their tanks for more than 2 server resets they respawn.

3. Vehicles will leak fuel at a rate of 1/10th the fuel tanks capacity a day even if repaired.

If someone jacks your ride and abandons it then it's eventually going to go back into the spawn pool. Also this encourages people to drive their vehicles/search for fuel and not store/hoard them

4. Fuel cannot be stored on the vehicle itself. So no grabbing a car and running around all over to fill the thing up with jerry cans.

5. Bicycles will spawn near the starting spawns at random. However if you dismount from them they will disappear. This is so they can be used more readily by people who have just respawned. However falling off a bicycle is likely to cause you to have a broken bone(that sound balanced?)

What does this do for everyone? Well if a person(s) are just going to sit on their pile of cars suddenly they will have to scavenge more, mainly for fuel. This could push people to fight over it, much like people would in such a situation as DayZ presents. Adding another (late game) element of survival into the game.

no.

Vehicle hoarding= Having more vehicles then needed. You only have 6 people in your clan? A uaz is good enough. You only have 2 people in your clan? a Pickup is good enough. If you have more then that, consider yourself hoarding.

false.

We have 5-7 people playing in our group most days, but a lot of the time we're either playing at different times or doing separate tasks. One UAZ for 6 people isn't going to help anybody. Even with our 4 vehicles more than half the group is still walking most of the time.

[phil 103]

Clans buy servers, and place their vehicles.

We've done it on our server before, and it's very boring. Besides, you have to go pretty much to the back end of no where away from the action. It's pretty pointless, and I don't understand why people do it - then again I don't particularly understand Cherno/Elektro snipers killing people for their flashlights..

[mmMike 0]

We have 5-7 people playing in our group most days, but a lot of the time we're either playing at different times or doing separate tasks. One UAZ for 6 people isn't going to help anybody. Even with our 4 vehicles more than half the group is still walking most of the time.

That's probably because you play with hoarders, who by definition don't care about anyone else, so they won't stick around and save you from all the walking.

[PwnCaiks101 8]

You must have down syndrome/dyslexia so I will keep this simple.

Clan A) hides all vehicles at campsite A)

Player B) does not find any vehicles due to clans hiding them all

The.Fucking.End.

I like this man

[drake_hb@hotmail.com 22]

That's probably because you play with hoarders, who by definition don't care about anyone else, so they won't stick around and save you from all the walking.

Nope. I have my own motercycle so I don't walk. I take someone with me if they aren't doing something else with others. It's because we log in at different times and do our own thing until our needs line up.

[Bobicon 7]

I've ridden on a vehicle once in the past 40-50 hours of play time.

Granted I snuck up on the person who was trying to get a dirt bike up a huge cliff and I just spawned so I had no weapons. I jumped on the back and and the guy freaked out drove to the bottom of the cliff and his friends unloaded on me with their sniper rifles while we were still both on it.

['Echo' 2]

I don't mind people hiding cars, as long as they actually USE the vehicles. If they have to go on a vacation, they should not expect their vehicle to remain when they return. Vehicles should circulate between players more and not be claimed for a whole week.

Using cars as storage or trophies is not ok. It ruins the purpose of vehicles. Vehicles should be used to take players across the map in a timely fashion. Also, repairing a car can be a fun/challanging/risky adventure for a small group of players. Finding a vehicle in the north west part of the map is not fun at all.

[Doomlord52 62]

I have to agree with OP to some degree. I've been playing for over a week and I have yet to see a single vehicle that I could use. The best I've done is seeing another player driving a truck after I had just spawned. Really, its somewhat annoying. I get the idea that a clan / group might want one or two, but it gets annoying when they get ALL of them. The problem is, once you get one, you have a MASSIVE advanatge.

Let's use "Clan A" (a 4-person group) and "Player" to illustrate the problem - both have just created new characters (i.e. normal spawns).

"Clan A" joins the server after a reset and quickly finds and repairs one vehicle (they have more people, they can fix it faster - this is fine).

"Clan A" now uses the vehicle to transport themselves to the next nearest 3 vehicles

"Clan A" repairs another 3 vehicles, and drives all 4 to a campsite north of NWAF

"Clan A" leaves 3 in this far away, hidden place, and all 4 get into one vehicle and repeat the process.

"Player" joins the server a bit later, and looks around for a vehicle, but cant find one nearby as "Clan A" has taken the nearest 4 (or more)

"Player" has to spend (lets say) an hour to get to the next-nearest vehicle spawn point, while "Clan A" only needs to spend 5-10 minutes.

"Player" can only transport one or two parts at a time, due to bag size, while "Clan A" can transport all the parts due to more player and vehicle storage

Basically, due to the movement speed, bonuses of groups, and timing, it bascically becomes IMPOSSIBLE to find a vehicle at spawn after the first hour after a server reset. In addition, becuase of these bonuses, "Clan A" has effectively removed all the vehicles from the game and gotten better gear (to defend the vehicles with),

Its not so much a problem with the hoarding concept, but that they are by nature a method to travel faster.

/edit

Lets also apply some math. The map is 225km² or about 15x15km. In MP, your viewdist is set to 1.5k (or around there, at least). So, around you, you can see only about 7km², and that's counting all directions, and NO view-blocking things - essentially an unrealistic, best-case, impossible scenario. So let's call it 5km². That's approximately 2% of the map at any one time. Now, via some insane "arma2" logic, the character apprently runs at 18.2km/h. Counting only the directly forward and backward aspect of the view distance (Basically making it a cube, rather than sphere), you need to travel 3k forward to see an entirely new area of the map (i.e. so the furthest forward object becomes the furthest back). That'll take about 10 minutes, real-time. If we call each section a "view chunk", there are a total of 45 on the map. So, that means, to see the whole map it will take 7.5 hours.

So no. If "clan A" is smart about it, they'll be able to hide ALL the vehicles for a very, very long time.

Sadly there is no way to "prevent" vehicle hoarding. As long as the vehicles are placed even somewhat logically (i.e. along roads, urban areas, etc.), the first group to get a vehicle gets a massive advantage.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Doomlord52

[Junos 57]

I've satcheled vehicles i've had before when I log back into notice my truck or bike is missing I blow the charges.

Is there not a range limit on those transmitters?

Vehicle hoarding is fair. Always was, always will be. People just want this game to be so damn easy and want things brought to them on a silver platter. That "Vehicle hoarder" spent just as much time fixing up those vehicles as any one else would have.

It's not about fairness. DayZ isn't fair. It's not supposed to be.

It's about people gathering vehicles that they never intend to use, for the sake of either basking in the glow of their imaginary property or preventing others from using them. Either way it's a form of griefing. It's detrimental to every other player on the server. It serves no purpose other than selfish greed.

Since "we have the technology," the game can be programmed to keep vehicles available around the map on a regular, if rare, basis. This makes the experience more interesting for everyone. It benefits everyone.

[Slyguy65 499]

This has been clogging up in my nerve central and I have to get it out of my system.

Time to time we see threads about vehicle hoarding, how it's unfair and ruining the game play for others, such as casuals. Every time this topic is discussed or viewed we get a rather large influx of people posting and playing the blame game.

This just seems rather ridiculous to me and so I made this topic, to humbly ask for an explanation that would clarify to me how it's unfair exactly, and how is it ruining anyone's play time, casual or not.

I'll try to sum up in a simple example how my mind comprehends the vehicle situation, and it goes like this:

Vehicle 1 has a spawn point at location A.

Vehicle 2 has a spawn point at location B.

Vehicle 3 has a spawn point at location C.

Person 1 finds vehicle 1 at A and moves it to a camp site far north, being location D.

Person 1 also finds vehicle 2 at B and moves it to the same camp site at location D. He's now effectively "hoarding" vehicles.

Person 2 finds vehicle 3 at C and drives around until someone shoots him and the fate of the car is unknown.

Person 3 finds vehicles 1 and 2 at location D and proceeds to take vehicle 1 and shoot out the tyres off vehicle 2 for shits n giggles.

Now explain to me, what is the difference between person 2 and person 3? How has the person 1 influenced the process of finding a vehicle for them? Because it would seem to me, the only thing that changed is the location from A and B to location D.

What difference does it make if a person finds a vehicle at D instead of A, B or C? My common sense is saying that the answer is absolutely nothing. It actually seems that person 3 is happier than person 2 because he found 2 vehicles instead of 1 even if he only took one. Chances are he found a good camp site with tents filled with good lewt. He also has the satisfaction of ruining someones day good n proper.

I'm going to say it like this: You can't hoard vehicles. You could when it was possible to park them 15km outside of the map, but now that you can't do it anymore, all vehicles are on the visible map for anyone to stumble upon, be it location A, B, C or D.

Argue me please.

Your logic is all there i agree...except heres what happens due to that obvious fact that ya people hoard cause people are people....knowing that going in I (myself) begin heading far north and SERVER HOP to other server at random locations in the woods...i am then criticized....why? because i am aware of said logic above? and know where people hide their cars? and am punished for being intelligent enough to get what i want...ya this community...they agree with the logic stated above but holy fucking shit...it is forbidden to use that knowledge to our own gain...but of course once everyone else find out what i do is logical and beneficial they all STFU and start doing it themselves...fucking hypocrites....anyway i had to get that out of MY system.

Edited July 29, 2012 by Slyguy65

[Slyguy65 499]

Is there not a range limit on those transmitters?

It's not about fairness. DayZ isn't fair. It's not supposed to be.

It's about people gathering vehicles that they never intend to use, for the sake of either basking in the glow of their imaginary property or preventing others from using them. Either way it's a form of griefing. It's detrimental to every other player on the server. It serves no purpose other than selfish greed.

Since "we have the technology," the game can be programmed to keep vehicles available around the map on a regular, if rare, basis. This makes the experience more interesting for everyone. It benefits everyone.

Agreed. There needs to be a respawn time of 3 days...not 7. Aside from that i don't know how this form of grieving can be adequately resolved

[i_deadly_i 10]

I was also whining like you guys. But then I started finding cars, atv's, bikes, and ural's full of weapons. Well let's just say I don't care no more what you all think, cuz i have a shitload of weapons and vehicles!

[alyas 14]

I just moved to a new server to find a better home. Iv spent the last week hunting for whomever has "My" Dirtbike. Ill give the guy credit, he/she has a great spot as i have yet to find "My" dirtbike. Am i upset about it no, why should i be. That person has the right of having however many trucks, atvs, and/or cars as they want. If they found them, Then hey guess what they get to do whatever they want with them. What about their Rights?

[perestain 33]

I think the problem is that when a group finds a vehicle, it makes it a lot easier for that group to gain even more vehicles by searching spawn locations (sometimes across servers) or to search for more hidden vehicle locations on the outer edges.

Have any of you seriously tried to search on foot for hidden car locations? Exhausting, time consuming, boring, and you better take plenty of water as you risk dying of thirst.

Yep I have and I have been successful in 1 out of 4 times I've tried.

The thing is though, I found most vehicles with the help of vehicles I already had.

So I agree, if you have a vehicle its fairly easy to get more, and if you have no vehicle its pretty hard to find one.

I've given up on purposely looking though, Most vehicles I accidentally found in spots where I wouldn't have expected them.

for example this parking lot north of berezino, where I once found 2 tractors, a bike, an atv and a hatchback at the same time.

So to sum things up:

- make vehicles spawn randomly

- make vehicles explode if they cross the map border

- make vehicles respawn if not used in 48 hours

This would improve the game. Maybe to the point where tank traps could be used for ambushes instead of just for trolling.

[Junos 57]

I just moved to a new server to find a better home. Iv spent the last week hunting for whomever has "My" Dirtbike. Ill give the guy credit, he/she has a great spot as i have yet to find "My" dirtbike. Am i upset about it no, why should i be. That person has the right of having however many trucks, atvs, and/or cars as they want. If they found them, Then hey guess what they get to do whatever they want with them. What about their Rights?

Their what?

The best way to find a vehicle in DayZ is to wait until you see someone driving one, then shoot the driver and take it. :) A couple days ago my team was just fending off zombies in a building in Vybor when a guy drove by in a bus about 75 meters away. A few rounds from my M4A1 CCO SD and he never knew what hit him. We've been to Zeleno, Cherno, and places in between. Be careful, though: it's too easy to hit the Eject button and die.

Vehicles are death traps, anyway! The only vehicle I want to get in this game is an M1A1! (I know there isn't one.)

Edited July 30, 2012 by Junos

[Jerry Gruszecki 26]

random locations is a great idea.

[internetTAB (DayZ) 76]

I'm a hoarder... I need a vehicle so bad.. The last one I had had 25 cooked meat in it and 5 different (mid grade) weapons. with random water and ammo as well. Some guy found me parking it in a tree and shot me(on the ground, broken leg)... :( Guess I should have thought of a better spot. Being a lone wolf makes keeping a vehicle very hard...

When I find a vehicle, I find a new home server. Getting that red car from starry fixed (3 wheels, scrap metal, gas) was very thrilling, and finding 3 wheels took forever! Every time I went back with a wheel I would loot the military tents and store stuff in the back of the car x) sometimes other people had taken a few things out but it was just a sitting chest.

[Buffjesus 357]

I've ridden on a vehicle once in the past 40-50 hours of play time.

Granted I snuck up on the person who was trying to get a dirt bike up a huge cliff and I just spawned so I had no weapons. I jumped on the back and and the guy freaked out drove to the bottom of the cliff and his friends unloaded on me with their sniper rifles while we were still both on it.

then you must be horrible at the game

ive been through 20 servers in the past month and had a vehicle on each one.

learn where to find them, or go to a spawn and hop for one.

or just go behind myshkino barn walk down the hill and search the forests around there. like 50% of servers will have vehicles hidden there

[amudkipz 46]

This game needs a fuck ton of bikes, bikes should be at literally every house, and after 2 hours of not being used they return to their spawn.

[septuscap 42]

person 3 never finds vehicle 1 and 2 because it is hidden. infact, thats why you hid it, to ensure that he wont find it, so you defeat your own argument. person 1 knows that vehicle a and b wont be found, and thats why he is hoarding them. just because something is still on the map doesnt mean it has the same chance of being found as if it were in its natural spawn point.

Except as anyone who actually plays the game will tell you (and by play I don't mean just running along the roads like a fucking moron), you run into camps OFTEN. I've stolen many vehicles, and had 1 or 2 stolen from me.

This is like the newbie complaining that he doesn't start with an AS50, and that he has every right to the weapon just by virtue of checking Cherno for loot. You're a shit player, get better.

[septuscap 42]

This game needs a fuck ton of bikes, bikes should be at literally every house, and after 2 hours of not being used they return to their spawn.

I wouldn't mind more vehicles of all types, I think it would create more interesting scenarios, like potential vehicle ambushes, or driving your vehicle right into a combat area to pick up a buddy who's pinned down (since you could always pick up another vehicle later if things don't go well).

At the moment they're mostly used to just ferry people long distances through low traffic routes.

[insolentfool 17]

at one point my crew had 10 vehicles at our base. You tend to lose them due to attrition from things like ambushes or server crashes. we had 2 quad bikes, found a base with 3 more and found a 6th not too far from our camp. only a day later we were down to 4, then a week later 2. now our whole stock is gone. each time someone found our base we would lose 1 or 2 vehicles and spend ages moving.

Sometimes we managed to get one back. We would spend hours finding, fighting and salvaging vehicles so we deserved them just as much as anyone else. Eventually I think someone got greedy and our bases were often found minutes after moving by people on foot, even when spread to pretty sneaky locations which were miles from anything. It just got too sus considering what powers hackers have. That in combination with the dodgy server hoster leaving the server down for 6 hour blocks some days we decided to change.

Keep in mind, the more vehicles and bigger the base you have the more likely it is to be found. one quad parked behind a tree in the wilderness is much harder to find then 1 Gaz, 6 quads, 1 ural , 2 hilux's and several tents.

Finally the game actually gets pretty boring once you have everything, you spend more time trying to keep what you have rather then being hungry for more. You get so concerned about losing any of your awesome gear or items that you avoid as much risk as possible until you realise you're just killing time instead of actually playing. Thats when people tend to start destroying poor newbies in cherno and electro for some entertainment. Removing unlimited ammo and item duping will lengthen the gameplay time, forcing people to go to the risky areas for ammo. Still, you stop caring about "Gotta catch them all!"