Base Building Overhauling standard Group Dynamics ( A scenario)

[3rdparty 229]

This is almost like a scenario that would be interesting to see peeps thoughts on.

Related to an earlier thread i made on occupying and reclaiming industry Control Old Industry

and another thread on rural industry for small groups and loners Control Rural Industry

If groups were to occupy police stations/prisons/electric plants/garages/factories and use their facilities within them, then it sets as a source of negotiative power as a group on a server. Further (not intentionally envoking Darwinism) only the most biggest/most organsied groups will be able to hold down the hottest spot, or most frequently visited. Meaning its more likely that friendly groups, ie peeps who are open to newcomers and share weapons etc will dominate, largely due to numbers.

And if areas are divided over control, there may even be incentive for those opposing groups to enlist new spawns, even if they use them as cannon fodder, it creates incentives for more dynamic interactions.

Whilst not punishing or completely banishing the lone wolves/trolls.

Anyone think this has the potential to change the outlook on electro or cherno? Or what faults do ye see in this?

Edited August 14, 2012 by 3rdParty

[bluecrackers 175]

I have a massive raging boner for almost everything mentioned in that thread, especially the radio stations.

[3rdparty 229]

lol it be would siiick! Ohhh how i dream, but yea i thought id start this thread up because it is a slightly diff topic that would start to make the bulging one a bit overbearing *(think it already is :()

But i do think this kind of organisation might create interesting group dynamics where people are enticed into different groups or gangs. Whilst not severely damaging psycho gameplay. (i think/hope)

Edited July 26, 2012 by 3rdParty

[bluecrackers 175]

But seriously if this is implemented I am dead set on creating an "anarchy squad". We will find clan bases, identify their main buildings (armorys, HQ's, etc.) and sneak in with satchel charges and watch from a distance as we detonate them and witness chaos ensue. After the dust settles we will sneak back in to claim the spoils of war.

I especially like the thought of having our own radio station to promote violence against the clans and watch our influence create chaos, skirmishes, and possibly even all out clan wars on servers.

I know, I'm a total psychopath.

[KnT47r 51]

^^

And that is what makes this game great

[3rdparty 229]

But seriously if this is implemented I am dead set on creating an "anarchy squad". We will find clan bases, identify their main buildings (armorys, HQ's, etc.) and sneak in with satchel charges and watch from a distance as we detonate them and witness chaos ensue. After the dust settles we will sneak back in to claim the spoils of war.

I especially like the thought of having our own radio station to promote violence against the clans and watch our influence create chaos, skirmishes, and possibly even all out clan wars on servers.

I know, I'm a total psychopath.

as much as you are my anti paritcle, yup that would be fecking cool. One thing i got to discussing with someone on that thread though was tings like infiltration and sabotage, although it should be possible, i also think the creative capacity for traps should be extended so at least there some basic sense of security with bases so peeps are not too easily put off from creating them in the first place. The trick is in balancing the time/organisation spent building the base, with an equal but opposite challenge of invading it XD

[bluecrackers 175]

as much as you are my anti paritcle, yup that would be fecking cool. One thing i got to discussing with someone on that thread though was tings like infiltration and sabotage, although it should be possible, i also think the creative capacity for traps should be extended so at least there some basic sense of security with bases so peeps are not too easily put off from creating them in the first place. The trick is in balancing the time/organisation spent building the base, with an equal but opposite challenge of invading it XD

I agree with balancing the challenge of infiltration with the challenge of creating the base itself. I think the creative capacity for traps could be increased with the introduction of new weapons and equipment that benefit both the group that controls the base and the group sabotaging. Things like mortars could be implemented for both defensive and offensive purposes. Maybe you could have placeable searchlights that require power from generators so that it would provide both advantages and disadvantages for both sides, it would make it harder for the saboteurs given the amount of light and it would limit the other things the defenders can power at the time. Or flashbangs, they could be used for the saboteurs to blind some of the base occupants while they attack or retreat as well as give the base occupants a way to temporarily neutralize the invaders while they dispatch them.

I'm liking this discussion we're having, it's really getting my creativity going.

[3rdparty 229]

indeedy XD

Yea not really thought about them but i dont see why not, especially mortars considering the weaponry grades the game currently possesses.

I pretty sure ive seen several threads or posts suggesting the idea of trip wire, tbh i think this especially could be a very free creative trap if designed in the right way, so that similiar animations/skins are not used as so are not easily identifiable evn possibly to the experienced player.

Boobytraps with explosives and blunt force trauma litter my mind but even things like setting off bright illuminous chemlights or noise traps in the invaders vacinity, drawing zeds and attention towards them. XD

The main concern i saw from peeps tbh is concern for the base.. essentially while theyre are asleep, which i do think there should be some precaution in place. But as im thinking with this thread, the servers may naturally tend towards the largest friendly groups for the biggest baddest bases XD leaving other areas of interest that are more remote, easier to set up and defend, will give opportunities for smaller groups trying to establish dominance on a server XD

Edited July 26, 2012 by 3rdParty

[bluecrackers 175]

indeedy XD

Yea not really thought about them but i dont see why not, especially mortars considering the weaponry grades the game currently possesses.

I pretty sure ive seen several threads or posts suggesting the idea of trip wire, tbh i think this especially could be a very free creative trap if designed in the right way, so that similiar animations/skins are not used as so are not easily identifiable evn possibly to the experienced player.

Boobytraps with explosives and blunt force trauma litter my mind but even things like setting off bright illuminous chemlights or noise traps in the invaders vacinity, drawing zeds and attention towards them. XD

The main concern i saw from peeps tbh is concern for the base.. essentially while theyre are asleep, which i do think there should be some precaution in place. But as im thinking with this thread, the servers may naturally tend towards the largest friendly groups for the biggest baddest bases XD leaving other areas of interest that are more remote, easier to set up and defend, will give opportunities for smaller groups trying to establish dominance on a server XD

When you really think about it that's how it would probably work in real life, the groups with the most people will control the most important bits of land and smaller groups will be left to make camps out int he wilderness where there aren't as many resources. Of course people controlling areas like cherno, elektro, and stary will make it rather difficult for people to acquire weapons and supplies when they start out so it should be rather difficult for people to control areas such as that. Maybe increase zombie spawns around areas that have been occupied by people to ensure they can't control multiple city blocks without a rather large number of people.

On a related note I think this would allow for barbed wire, tank traps, and sandbags to be used for more than just being a total douchebag and allow them to be used for actual defensive purposes

[3rdparty 229]

When you really think about it that's how it would probably work in real life, the groups with the most people will control the most important bits of land and smaller groups will be left to make camps out int he wilderness where there aren't as many resources. Of course people controlling areas like cherno, elektro, and stary will make it rather difficult for people to acquire weapons and supplies when they start out so it should be rather difficult for people to control areas such as that. Maybe increase zombie spawns around areas that have been occupied by people to ensure they can't control multiple city blocks without a rather large number of people.

On a related note I think this would allow for barbed wire, tank traps, and sandbags to be used for more than just being a total douchebag and allow them to be used for actual defensive purposes

indeedy I was thinking of somehow adapting into that original thread a section on similiar activities BUT for lone wolves and small bandit groups. For those same reasons ye mentioned, these objectives would be out of their capacity, lone wolves couldnt repair the elctric grid even if they were the last person on earth let alone one populated by zeds and murderers. But they could have more dominion over the large sweeping hunting areas and forests XD, the castles and hunting stands, small bandit groups probably could take over something like the garage, but because of their quick kill, hit and run nature, its unlikely they would hold an area for long, or would inevitably move on. Forts are possible, but part of me feels even they require a large organised bandit group. For these smaller groups i think there would have to be focus on developing camouflaged fortifications, dugouts/hideouts/foxholes, but that would also have to be incorporated into a new map, as i feel most fortifications stand out too easily on arma 2 :(

But I like this idea, because smaller groups with not such complex tasks (ie causing alot of movement/noise/attention consumption) would be less obvious in the large country areas. Whereas large fumbling friendlies making that dangerous route to transfer mechanical parts or components would be incredibly vulnerable XD

Edited July 26, 2012 by 3rdParty

[Slyguy65 499]

But seriously if this is implemented I am dead set on creating an "anarchy squad". We will find clan bases, identify their main buildings (armorys, HQ's, etc.) and sneak in with satchel charges and watch from a distance as we detonate them and witness chaos ensue. After the dust settles we will sneak back in to claim the spoils of war.

I especially like the thought of having our own radio station to promote violence against the clans and watch our influence create chaos, skirmishes, and possibly even all out clan wars on servers.

I know, I'm a total psychopath.

Ya a super original psychopath...get creative FFS why risk going into the base, Im sure if what was listed came true more intelligent people would find more interesting ways of going about simple things like anarchy.

Sure you could get away with it once or twice but eventually people will wise up and be super strict (IMO people would already be super strict most likely shooting most people on sight till they have absolute control over the area) they would do body searches and have a perimeter...if they began taking sniper fire they would find cover and wait it out since they would have supplies.

To "sneak" in would only be possible for small groups that would happen to be offline...there's no way you would sneak into say a prison and just blow their shit up...

I have multiple ideas of "sneaking" in but im sure my definition of sneaking is not the same as yours im assuming your definition is "hur dur we gana crawl so they don't see us" but hey thats just me being cynical if you would like to elaborate on what you consider sneaky by all means share it.

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There is one major flaw i see happening though...loser douchebags would just find a "base" or whatever and server hop inside it.. the only way i see this being countered is if there is some kind of kill box? or something that prevents logging on into certain spaces...the fact is this is still a game and to prevent exploiting at least to an extent when it comes to bases and things such as that would be to require a "safe log out" zone somewhere in the facility (i.e prison, hospital, school) so people couldn't just server hop in and out going "DERP i totally ninja'd the gear inside like a boss"...these safe zones would be a specific area and if you did not log out in them you would log in outside the facility a good 100 or so meters.

(example: if you didn't log out in the tower at devils castle you would log back in at the entrance or on the road leading to it) Im not saying this should be applied to castles just saying as an example of how it would work.

[Slyguy65 499]

Also i should note a good idea i heard someone mention about the residential houses and such. And how it would be cool to gather items that would let you barricade and fortify them so you could just make a home wherever with the right materials. This is an expanded look at the whole clearing of towns (not cities) but the topic idea is better in different ways cause as i seen in most post apocalyptic settings people find abandoned structures (freighters, hotels, schools, PRISONS (fallout new vegas) libraries museums etc.)

I would actually prefer this over the perma clearing of towns to form bases, isolated places for the specific purpose of forming a base would be better than a passive place meant to be a place to scavenge.

[3rdparty 229]

There is one major flaw i see happening though...loser douchebags would just find a "base" or whatever and server hop inside it.. the only way i see this being countered is if there is some kind of kill box? or something that prevents logging on into certain spaces...the fact is this is still a game and to prevent exploiting at least to an extent when it comes to bases and things such as that would be to require a "safe log out" zone somewhere in the facility (i.e prison, hospital, school) so people couldn't just server hop in and out going "DERP i totally ninja'd the gear inside like a boss"...these safe zones would be a specific area and if you did not log out in them you would log in outside the facility a good 100 or so meters.

(example: if you didn't log out in the tower at devils castle you would log back in at the entrance or on the road leading to it) Im not saying this should be applied to castles just saying as an example of how it would work.

Tbh im not to sure what mechanism could work/would be introduced, but certainly there would have to be zone were zombies and players cant just spawn/ghost in. But tbh the ghosting issue is a blatent exploit, that will have to have some kind of fix before its a fully fledged game regardless of whetehr this is implemented or not, so i dont usually consider it when thinking of new activities or locations. Dunno if ye saw this thread http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/29313-some-feature-ideas-requesting-feedback/

but i think this was the devs idea that they were requesting feedback on, im noot so sure myself, but it seems like a step in the right direction.

[3rdparty 229]

Also i should note a good idea i heard someone mention about the residential houses and such. And how it would be cool to gather items that would let you barricade and fortify them so you could just make a home wherever with the right materials. This is an expanded look at the whole clearing of towns (not cities) but the topic idea is better in different ways cause as i seen in most post apocalyptic settings people find abandoned structures (freighters, hotels, schools, PRISONS (fallout new vegas) libraries museums etc.)

I would actually prefer this over the perma clearing of towns to form bases, isolated places for the specific purpose of forming a base would be better than a passive place meant to be a place to scavenge.

im afraid im not quite sure what ye are getting at, id respond further but itd be off cue :S

[n_bro199 1]

WOW! Just reading this is filling my mind with all sorts of ideas. Although how would you identify people from your group/clan from a distance w/ out name tags? I was thinking maybe introduce a lot of different skins with camos from all over ther world like US Woodland, ACU, Multicam, MARPAT, and ABU, Chinese Type 87 and 99 camo, Polish Puma or Pantera, British DPM and MTP German Flacktarn and Sumpfmuster, Canadian CADPAT and CADETPAT, Brasilian Lizard and Caatinga, Austrlain DPCU and ERDL and maybe the different Finnish M05 patterns. I don't know if more or less would be needed. Also, maybe NPCs could be used at time when clan members are sleeping. Maybe if the amount of players from a certian clan that are on the server falls below 30% a fixed amount of NPCs who's armerment is based on the loot of the clan will spawn and take up a patrol pattern around the base. Who know maybe you could even have two NPC bases (lets just say American and Russian for now) at opposite sides of the map (SE and NW corners) that you could pledge your support to (for starting player you don't want to get into PvP) you could use their heavily gaurded base as a safe point and maybe have certian NPCs that you can interact with, say if you give Srgt. Killgore 1 full jerry can, you get this AK-74 with one mag. If you bring enough car part to make a car you can radio it in when you are in trouble, enough for two cars, you can keep one. Also the Russian and American NPCs could also go out and wander and look for survival objects and maybe do some hunting. They could get into firefights where you could pick a side, let them slug it out and loot the loser, or try and take them both out for double the loot. But there would be ramifacations if you kill them, the US/Russian would remeber the loss of their commrads and attack you on sight if they ever came across you or if you came to close to their base. I know that is a bit much but once I got going, I couldnt really stop. I really hope some guy really high up the DayZ design chain sees this thread and takes note, I would email the whole staff if I had their emails. Anyway let me know what you though of all those ideas. thanks :)

[yumey95 10]

Yes ive had this in my mind for quite a while, it would be a very good feature. You have my beans.

[wtfosaurus 30]

I really would love to see base-building alongside fortification of existing buildings I think there's a lot that could be done with these mechanics especially if you start to add generators into the mix.

[n_bro199 1]

I asume that for the generator, you would need to find one and find the parts for it like a car. Also wouldn't the noise from that attract zombies to the base. Also maybe if you did a LOT of running around cities looking for the right parts, you could get a gun smithery going. You could take metal scrap and bullet casings and turn them into useable ammo. Also, would the radio be similar to the one in Fallot 3/New Vegas where you can just cycle through channels? If so, I think you should have two frequencies, one for advertisment and one for members. That way on one channel could be like "Join us! We have medical supplies and guns for those who support us." and the other could be like "All members of Clan A, Clan member 1 has spotted 5 members of clan B out hunting and scavenging north of Stary Sober at cords blah blah blah, any members of Clan A in the area make direct contact with clan member 1 on radio channel 6 (assuming that handheld radios with limited range are introduced) I think that would firefights a lot more common and put bystanders in a position of power to help which ever clan they liked more, or attack them both. Also what do you guys think about the idea of cross clan alliances that could lead to large scale wars over high value targets NW airfield here I come!

[3rdparty 229]

WOW! Just reading this is filling my mind with all sorts of ideas. Although how would you identify people from your group/clan from a distance w/ out name tags? I was thinking maybe introduce a lot of different skins with camos from all over ther world like US Woodland, ACU, Multicam, MARPAT, and ABU, Chinese Type 87 and 99 camo, Polish Puma or Pantera, British DPM and MTP German Flacktarn and Sumpfmuster, Canadian CADPAT and CADETPAT, Brasilian Lizard and Caatinga, Austrlain DPCU and ERDL and maybe the different Finnish M05 patterns. I don't know if more or less would be needed. Also, maybe NPCs could be used at time when clan members are sleeping. Maybe if the amount of players from a certian clan that are on the server falls below 30% a fixed amount of NPCs who's armerment is based on the loot of the clan will spawn and take up a patrol pattern around the base. Who know maybe you could even have two NPC bases (lets just say American and Russian for now) at opposite sides of the map (SE and NW corners) that you could pledge your support to (for starting player you don't want to get into PvP) you could use their heavily gaurded base as a safe point and maybe have certian NPCs that you can interact with, say if you give Srgt. Killgore 1 full jerry can, you get this AK-74 with one mag. If you bring enough car part to make a car you can radio it in when you are in trouble, enough for two cars, you can keep one. Also the Russian and American NPCs could also go out and wander and look for survival objects and maybe do some hunting. They could get into firefights where you could pick a side, let them slug it out and loot the loser, or try and take them both out for double the loot. But there would be ramifacations if you kill them, the US/Russian would remeber the loss of their commrads and attack you on sight if they ever came across you or if you came to close to their base. I know that is a bit much but once I got going, I couldnt really stop. I really hope some guy really high up the DayZ design chain sees this thread and takes note, I would email the whole staff if I had their emails. Anyway let me know what you though of all those ideas. thanks :)

XD thnx for ze bump and i see what ye mean about identification, ive seen a thread before discussing the potentials of groups or especially clans reaching certain conditions before being allowed to petition the devs for their own clan uniform. But part of me also thinks this too is relying on dev help, it would be great to see some mechanic for designing or customising clothes yourself and I thought about it adding it originally to the industry thread but decided to omit it after not recalling many threads discussing or motivated towards customisable clothing, there probably is though. This is a good thread however at least showing how customisable clothing would be a great feature Homemade Ghillie Suits whilst this thread argues even further customisation of the ghillie suit Stealth, Ghillie suits etc.

I see what ye mean about the tags and tbh i do think there should be a tag system aswell, if not because of the conditions that might be introduced for uniforms, but for the fact the graphics will never match the ability for peeps to instantly recognise one another irl. I always thought a proximity for tags could be introduced with a color distinction for unknown and known players (not bandits and survivors), its already there in-game it just hasnt been tweaked with.

But unfortunately i do not agree with any kind of NPCs, apart from the zombies and animals, any humans have got to be human

I asume that for the generator, you would need to find one and find the parts for it like a car. Also wouldn't the noise from that attract zombies to the base. Also maybe if you did a LOT of running around cities looking for the right parts, you could get a gun smithery going. You could take metal scrap and bullet casings and turn them into useable ammo. Also, would the radio be similar to the one in Fallot 3/New Vegas where you can just cycle through channels? If so, I think you should have two frequencies, one for advertisment and one for members. That way on one channel could be like "Join us! We have medical supplies and guns for those who support us." and the other could be like "All members of Clan A, Clan member 1 has spotted 5 members of clan B out hunting and scavenging north of Stary Sober at cords blah blah blah, any members of Clan A in the area make direct contact with clan member 1 on radio channel 6 (assuming that handheld radios with limited range are introduced) I think that would firefights a lot more common and put bystanders in a position of power to help which ever clan they liked more, or attack them both. Also what do you guys think about the idea of cross clan alliances that could lead to large scale wars over high value targets NW airfield here I come!

yup yup and yuuup, lots of the things ye mentioned have popped up in random posts spread over the threads mentioned in this and those industry ones (they are basically compilation threads), apart from the radio scenarios ye mentioned XD I see them all as plausible outcomes and, more importantly, not unlikely. Creating very interesting experiences XD

[n_bro199 1]

XD thnx for ze bump and i see what ye mean about identification, ive seen a thread before discussing the potentials of groups or especially clans reaching certain conditions before being allowed to petition the devs for their own clan uniform. But part of me also thinks this too is relying on dev help, it would be great to see some mechanic for designing or customising clothes yourself and I thought about it adding it originally to the industry thread but decided to omit it after not recalling many threads discussing or motivated towards customisable clothing, there probably is though. This is a good thread however at least showing how customisable clothing would be a great feature Homemade Ghillie Suits whilst this thread argues even further customisation of the ghillie suit Stealth, Ghillie suits etc.

I see what ye mean about the tags and tbh i do think there should be a tag system aswell, if not because of the conditions that might be introduced for uniforms, but for the fact the graphics will never match the ability for peeps to instantly recognise one another irl. I always thought a proximity for tags could be introduced with a color distinction for unknown and known players (not bandits and survivors), its already there in-game it just hasnt been tweaked with.

But unfortunately i do not agree with any kind of NPCs, apart from the zombies and animals, any humans have got to be human

yup yup and yuuup, lots of the things ye mentioned have popped up in random posts spread over the threads mentioned in this and those industry ones (they are basically compilation threads), apart from the radio scenarios ye mentioned XD I see them all as plausible outcomes and, more importantly, not unlikely. Creating very interesting experiences XD

Well for the NPC's, I think adding opposing factions to the game would add a new level of complexity, and keep players even more worried and alert. But that is just my personal opinion. But I think that NPC gaurds are a must if you have player controlled clan bases. Because even with a big clan, there will be times when they are all sleeping. Then some lucky player with a toolkit could simply waltz in avoiding bear traps and whatnot and take what ever they want. I just think the a few NPC's inside the building that wont shoot anyone outside of the building unless a non clan member opens that door. But they would not pursue anyone just keep patroling the inside and only let clan members in.