How to Encourage PvP (in a healthy way)

[Haplo (DayZ) 44]

We all have gripes with griefers and a lot of people will shoot on sight. I'm suggesting a way to encourage PvP in a healthy way, a way to make zombies more of a threat, and a way to make the best military weapons harder to come by.

The map below is a map of France, but it demonstrates my purpose quite well.

The blue area represents survivor territory, red; bandit.The white area is a no spawn zone. After selecting male of female, the player choose 'survivor territory' or 'bandit territory'.After that, there is no restriction on the playstyle which players choose to adopt. A person who chooses to play as a bandit, can spawn into survivor territory and vice versa.This brings a variety of new mechanics to the game such as survivors being able to specifically hunt bandits, a fresh bandit getting in with a group of survivors ie meta-gaming and so on.

For fresh players (at least survivors), this give the chance of grouping up before tackling the world. I'm sure fresh bandits would like to group up though?The size of the map should be smaller than two thirds the size of Chernarus. I am basing this statement off the average server having the capacity for 50 people. This increases the population density and thus player interaction. This may also allow for a more dense zombie population, which needs to be somewhere between double and triple what it is now. Edit: I have noticed more zombies spawning as of the last patch?

The grey area in the middle is a large city, large meaning at least 3 times the size of Elektro and Chern put together. The green square in the middle is a military base.The zombie population in this city should be extremely dense, to the point where moving through the city without silenced weapons is certain death. Aggroed zombies should aggro other zombies. I would also suggest that, on top of a toolkit, battery powered power tools are required to access the military base, the armory, and some individual weapon cabinets. The resulting noise would alert/aggro players and zombies, but return the most high teir loot spawns.

This adds substantial risk, increasing the tension, the adrenaline, and the sense of reward. I'm not suggesting this be the only military spawn point, but it should certainly be the most rewarding.A city with I guess, common city features, would be cool. Multistory buildings with catwalks, food courts and shopping plazas, cinemas, fire stations, pubs bars and nightclubs, etc. The loot system should be designed to complement the map. Would really increase the immersion and define the objectives.The rest of the map would work in a similar way to Chernarus. Bandits do what they do, but survivors can hunt bandits. I'd like to see survivors grouping up to take on the 3 bandits just tried take one of theirs.

I should add that to some extent this mimics the real world. Through word of mouth, people would know quite quickly where the dangerous areas are.If you have any ideas to add, change, or even constructive criticism, let me know what you think. Let's avoid the flame wars that show up everywhere though yeah?

Edited August 6, 2012 by Haplo

[MinxinG 50]

I dont agree with the spawn option, people need to deal with others without out-game/in-game help, they need to see if they can trust a person and stuff, about the map, I disagree too, this is DayZ not COD to focus on PvP, DayZ its about a Zombie survival game, and the main focus in this game should actually be the zombies, and the map should be actually bigger, but for now, its ok since its Alpha.

About the city, yes, we need a highly dangerous city that has military high gear right in the middle of it with tons of zombies.

[Gandrew 10]

These responses are in no certain order.

- Personally, I like having player interactions to be rare, just so I get that rush every time and no deterioration until I'm in end game, Which brings me to a related note, those in the end game will be able to kill more players unable to react properly.

- I do like the idea of being able to plan out where I will go through-out my gameplay, but the unexpected spawn will make me have to plan many more routes than I would if I could choose expanding gameplay all together. Also I enjoy the challenge of trying to find my friends.

- Bandit and survivor area means nothing, bandits will go to the survivor side to kill them and survivors will go to the bandit side for more entertainment and expect to find better weapons/loot.

- Dense populations and larger cities DEFINITELY has my beans, more late game, zombie difficulty would be much higher and snipers would be fun to have scope offs. So if they decide to have their own map, GET ON THAT!

- The area given to us does work for dayz but it could definitely be improved.

- Everything else I do not really care for.

[Haplo (DayZ) 44]

The only problem right now MinxinG is that people that want to be friendly aren't given any sort of cues to establish whether a person is trustworthy or not. With the exception of ghilli, everybody looks identical, and for the sake of staying alive, I'm pretty sure most people choose to shoot on sight. This system would give at least some indication of who you may be able to make friends with (at least in the early stages), but just like real life; you never know who you can trust.

You're right in that the main focus should be on the zombies, which is why I suggested that they should be 2-3 times as dense. This doesn't negate that the fact the biggest threat is actually other people, with guns. In that respect, I think the solution to senseless player killing is actually to encourage it, but in a healthy way.

Big maps are cool and fancy, but I don't want to play on a map that is 3-400 square kilometres, when there might only be 15 other people in the server. For the map to be any bigger, the population cap needs to be boosted to at least one hundred, for all servers, which is unrealistic at the moment. A smaller map is the simplest solution to reduce associated issues, and increase the population density of both zombies and survivors.

Gandrew, the population just seems way to sparse at the moment. Also, fresh players stand just as much chance against end game players as they do now. I'm not suggesting that the military spawn in the city be the only military spawn, but it should certainly be the most rewarding. All it takes is a few hours gameplay and you will be familiar with both sides of the map. You still have the challenge of finding your friends, jsut as much as you do now. I'm not suggesting you choose exactly where you spawn, but just the general territory.

Yes, the bandit/survivor area means nothing, but that is exactly the point. Of course, survivors will hunt bandits, and bandits will hunt survivors and bandits alike. This is just a non intrusive way of trying to give fresh players the chance to group up before taking on the world.

By everything else, do you mean the power tools necessary to access the high end military loot? I understand that this makes things a little complex, but it is much closer to simulating a real world environment. It would add substantial risk to looting the military base, increasing the tension, the adrenaline, and the sense of reward.

[Jahgrid 1]

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/pve-dayz-servers-petition-for-rocket.html PvE servers petition.

[Haplo (DayZ) 44]

I'm sorry, I don't support PvE

[MinxinG 50]

This game is already a PVP+Zombies and you want it to be Call Of Duty? What the fuck is wrong with you booy?

[Haplo (DayZ) 44]

That is hardly the point, MinxinG. PvP is a huge part of the game right now, it is all it's got. At the moment, it is purely just senseless killing. I'm hardly trying to make this Call of Duty, I'm just trying to present a more realistic environment. If a zombie apocalypse went down in real life, it's not as if everyone is just going to start shooting each other. I'd imagine that survivors would way outnumber bandits as people unite against a common threat. Still, we will have Survivors vs Bandits.

This method would reduce some of the KoS (at least between the survivors), and steer the rest in a healthy direction. Yes you will still get griefers picking nubs at the survivor (and bandit) spawns, and whiners QQing more about anti-material sniper rifles, but at least now there is some method to killing. I know I don't kill for loot.

With this system, I would also hope that a bandit picking off fresh survivors would get taken out by well armed survivors.

One of the best parts of this idea for me is that survivors can now specifically hunt bandits. I play as a bandit, but I would much rather play as a helpful survivor, and then head in to bandit territory for proper PvP.

As I tried to suggest in my post; PvP should not be the core element. I said the zombies should be more of a threat, and military gear harder to come by.

And honestly dude, why the hostility? I appreciate constructive crticism and would love to hear why you think this is a bad idea, but would you act like such a prick if I just met you at the pub? You would be back pedaling like a little bitch :blush:

[urspider2018@gmail.com 109]

I like the map as is. Limiting areas or pre-designating anything more than you have to is a direction I don't think Rocket wants the game to go to.

I'll use a France-related image too.

Edited July 31, 2012 by AdmiralGreene

[Haplo (DayZ) 44]

It's a good map, Admiral, but it doesn't work for DayZ. It was never designed to accomodate a loot system. I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you but Rocket has stated he would like to release the game on a DayZ map. They work with Chernarus 'cos it's there. Even when the game is finished, it will still only take about an hour to port it over to a new map.

There are no limits to this method, as I said in the OP, a person who chooses to play as a bandit can always spawn in to survivor territory. This method would actually make little to no difference to the overall gameplay, but in the first 15 minutes - half an hour, you may get the chance to group up with someone that has similar motives, before doing whatever. Even for people like me who have buddies outside DayZ to group up with, it is still fun, and in the spirit of the game, to make temporary alliances.

As an Aussie bogan with little to no education in history, please enlighten me as to the nature of your comedic gesture, Admiral?

Unless you're surrendering already..

Edited July 31, 2012 by Haplo

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

That is hardly the point, MinxinG. PvP is a huge part of the game right now, it is all it's got. At the moment, it is purely just senseless killing. I'm hardly trying to make this Call of Duty, I'm just trying to present a more realistic environment. If a zombie apocalypse went down in real life, it's not as if everyone is just going to start shooting each other. I'd imagine that survivors would way outnumber bandits as people unite against a common threat. Still, we will have Survivors vs Bandits.

This method would reduce some of the KoS (at least between the survivors), and steer the rest in a healthy direction. Yes you will still get griefers picking nubs at the survivor (and bandit) spawns, and whiners QQing more about anti-material sniper rifles, but at least now there is some method to killing. I know I don't kill for loot.

With this system, I would also hope that a bandit picking off fresh survivors would get taken out by well armed survivors.

One of the best parts of this idea for me is that survivors can now specifically hunt bandits. I play as a bandit, but I would much rather play as a helpful survivor, and then head in to bandit territory for proper PvP.

As I tried to suggest in my post; PvP should not be the core element. I said the zombies should be more of a threat, and military gear harder to come by.

And honestly dude, why the hostility? I appreciate constructive crticism and would love to hear why you think this is a bad idea, but would you act like such a prick if I just met you at the pub? You would be back pedaling like a little bitch :blush:

Why hardcoded factions tho?

[Haplo (DayZ) 44]

You were the first to mention factions here, Kyrah :P. I'm just suggesting 'territories', and after that it's free reign. Perhaps they could be dynamic territories, ie. if a higher percentage of people who have become bandits are spawning into survivor territory than survivors, the labels switch. Thoughts? This could add to the immersion when base building becomes a big part of the game.

Edit: Sorry, when I said "I play as a bandit, but I would much rather play as a helpful survivor, and then head in to bandit territory for proper PvP" I meant that I would head into bandit territory, stalk people, and know who I'm killing. If I had cause to believe they were friendly, I would leave them alone, and vice versa

Edited July 31, 2012 by Haplo

[MinxinG 50]

I dont like this idea, it would kind of destroy the realism in that is supposed to have in a pos-apocalyptic world.

The magic of the game is to deal with people, try to survive while being in a unknown map.

Making a place for bandits and another for survivors, will be boring and sad. When you meantioned territories it remembered me Counter-Strike, where Terrorists(Bandits) spawn on the opposing side of Counter-Terrorists(Survivors) and they just fight each other like COD, I believe making this territories will make this game EVEN more COD.

[Haplo (DayZ) 44]

A post-apocalyptic world would have multiple survivor/bandit territories in a single region. Even within a single city (depending on the nature of the apocalypse), there would be defined bandit/survivor territories, and they would emerge quite quickly. I do understand where you're coming from, but given the size of the map and the nature of DayZ, once you're off the coast, you still have no idea who is who, thus I doubt it would have much effect on overall gameplay.

This approach does however give fresh players the chance to group with people of similar interests before they do whatever they do. Ultimately I don't think much would change other than that, unless people made moves towards establishing a post apocalyptic society, which survivors and bandits alike would do right? I don't understand how this would make the situation worse, but it does give the PvP a healthy and realistic direction.

Also, this wouldn't affect your 'magic of the game', just don't stick around the coast, though I think this system would encourage people to go inland. Also, it's hardly as if Chernarus is an unknown map, unless you've just started playing.

Right now, PvP is purely just senseless killing of everyone. The way the map and the loot system are currently structured, this game is literally a sandbox FFA with zombies, which is my problem. FFA is an extremely far stretch from how things would go in real life. There is no method to the madness, and it doesn't seem to be stopping anytime soon, in fact I can't see how it could get any worse (not that I have a problem with it). I'm just trying to suggest ways to move PvP in a healthy and realistic direction. Perhaps you could make a suggestion of your own, or change mine in a way that would have a positive outcome, for both survivors and bandits.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Haplo

[DeanBandit2450 0]

I'm gonna bump this, I think it makes sense.

[RB30E 4]

i agree with the bigger city part, love to see a huge city. none of this large town crap we currently have

[Haplo (DayZ) 44]

Indeed RB30E, So much wasted space in Chernarus :D