The solution to murdering bandits and griefers

[JD_274 18]

Interesting idea but many servers have nametags turned off. Nametags make it too easy for snipers and players to spot you.

If nametags took a few second to fade in then this idea would work pretty well.

Also, whats to stop people from constantly selecting yes even though they started the firefight? It would be pretty easy to grief this system.

Thank you for adding the idea of a fading nametag.

As for the "constantly selecting yes" i'm glad you brought that up. I did cover that in my OP of an "aging system" where kills would eventually degrade. People who do not kill very often and are accused for self defense will simply have their kills wiped normally since they don't go out of their way to kill people in the first place. The ones this really screws with is those who go out of their way and binge kill, because even with normal kill degradation, they're always going to be at a much higher threat level even after some kills have been wiped because of their in-game behavior.

And remember, those who are orange or red are not allowed to write in the notebook to accuse, so even if they did want to accuse someone who killed the attacker defending themselves, they wouldn't be able to.

[Crackint 0]

I think this is a sick idea and the *fading nametag* idea would work so well.

[JD_274 18]

I think this is a sick idea and the *fading nametag* idea would work so well.

I agree, sort of when you can't really make out someone from long distances, but as they come closer are recognizable, be it by earlier encounter or a description someone has told you of them

[Altze 13]

Just make it a uo system. The lower someone's humanity the more you gain from killing them and vice versa. This gives incentive to people who want a rep as a badass to avoid, but likewise it gives incentive for people to be good and they can 'pk hunt' shit give people titles associated to their humanity too like ' Altze the scoundrel' The Dread Lord Altze' etc. As humanity lowers. good ones for positive humanity. Make tags and titles as visible range as heartbeat or slightly higher solves sniper issues. its a tried method of a system that works. No need to accept fights if u kill aggressor its likely they had -ve humanity so yours will go up in self defense not down. People arent going to shoot you once hoping you kill them when they have real high humanity to force yours down. And even if they did your one kill can be worked off by killing low humanity players or just slowly over time. Its a system that provides survivors to band together and pkers to free for all against themselves and likely other pks and that's the tradeoff you make. Shit survivors could take over towns with such a system and declare them 'xx humanity players safe' people could trade etc knowing the other persons reputation. Realism? Whatever the fuck... Total deathmatch is NOT realism, give reasons for people to band together (currently none outside friends) and they will. But this system offers all types of players a 'place' in the world....

Typed from mobile so forgive me

[Altze 13]

Ok lots of errors and missing. Commas in above post. Hard from mobile sorry

[MGreenwald 49]

Why do people keep trying to come up with ways to change/remove one of the key elements of this game... if you dont like the pvp dont play it.

[JD_274 18]

Why do people keep trying to come up with ways to change/remove one of the key elements of this game... if you dont like the pvp dont play it.

Because Rocket has stated this game should be more about teamwork than about killing one another to take from each other. This would add an indirect alternative to control mass RDMers, adds to the games roleplaying/narrative, and establishes a slight sense of trust among players, one which as of right now is virtually nonexistent unless you have Teamspeak which takes from the game's realism.

[Altze 13]

Why do people keep trying to come up with ways to change/remove one of the key elements of this game... if you dont like the pvp dont play it.

well i for one would PvP regardless and have low humanity. The current system is non existent. You cannot have this for a game. In real life there is incentive to not kill each other (skills, knowledge, company, security etc) secondly in real life if you die... Thats fucking it, there is no respawning and behavioural conditioning from previous experiences of 'well shit everyone seems to kill me so ill kill everyone!'. Game needs a system to replace that which it cannot replicate (skills, knowledge, security when you sleep etc etc etc).

Anyone who cant see the current system is unrealistic is a few sandwhiches short of a picnic. the suggested notoriety system or something like it would not dampen those who want to kill. In fact it would create a divide, where those who want to be good have the added bonus of being able to kill those who are bad but also likely trust those who are also good. those who want to be bad are pretty much in current system now.. good guys will want you dead and well... Other bad guys will probably want to too. so you pvp experience wont change one iota if you choose to be bad..

[Altze 13]

Just fyi I do not know the original poster from a speck of paint on the wa.ll so..

[Golgo82 28]

The problem i have with this system is that it is fueled by.... magic.

First of all, you dont see the name of anyone (unless on regular/recruit servers/tags are enabled , which is stupid in its own way).

If you get killed by someone chances are you never saw it coming, let alone identify who shot you.

If you get killed, you are dead, there is no magical "put name in book so others can avenge me".

The tendency to do magical things should be confined to the areas that would otherwise break the game for an ever growing gaming experience(respawning Zeds/loot/vehicles). Everything else should follow the plausible fiction route, this game is currently trying to go.

If these notebooks where implemented, you should have to type whatever you want to be in there yourself - manually. This of course would mean, that everything written in there could be a lie.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Golgo82

[Blakorr 77]

nothing wrong with bandits going scot-free

there are no laws and therefore there is no justice system.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

But how is it terrible? The notebook is not magical, it is recollections of other travelers who have gathered information on players.

It is the recollections of dead travelers who instantly know the name of their murderer and who are somehow able to instantly share that informatoin across time and space with all other holders of this object?

That's magic, brother.

If an item like this were to exist, it would have to be stand-alone, meaning one instance of it exists on a player and he is able to record crimes he witnesses, but only if he survives to tell the tale. If he dies, he leaves the notebook behind and it can be picked up by another player and added to, but other players who find separate or new notebooks would find them blank and have to make their own.

In this way it eliminates both forms of magic inherent in your system, and creates a much more realistic way to document crimes in the game. Players could play almost exclusively as journalists, documenting crimes without getting involved.

You still have the problem of not knowing the person's name to contend with, but you can get around this with perhaps photography or a sketch of the assailant?

What if I want to make a notebook full of false crimes, am I allowed?

nothing wrong with bandits going scot-free

there are no laws and therefore there is no justice system.

There is a problem with it, actually. I'm all for PvP and fully against artificial deterrents, but if the players themselves want to try and establish a system of law and order by systematically identifying criminals, then they should be given the tools to do so.

rocket himself has said he wants players to either establish order or let the game devolve into a free-for-all frenzy. But if he wants to make those both equal possibilities, he must provide some tools to accomplish both. Right now we have a lot of tools to wreak havoc, but not many to establish order - because those are the more complicated mechanics like base building, squad identification and player classification.

I will never support deterrents or punishments for PvP that are built into the game, but if rocket gives players tools and they use them to establish their own deterrents and their own system of punishments then he will have truly achieved something amazing (and unprecedented in the world of online PvP).

Check my ideas & suggestions post for a post on identifying players.

Edited July 26, 2012 by ZedsDeadBaby

[kyle939 20]

Mmm Emma Watson players :)

Sorry that was all I seen so I had to reread it all :P

Ermm I think Bandits should have a skin, think about it in real situation a bandit would kill you for everything. Even clothes so why not dress them up as an enemy from Arma 2 or some others like China/ Iraqi/ German (That be funny seeing hitler clothing)

So think of the enemies you remember and their clothing becomes the bandit.

So Saddam/ Hitler etc....

Bandits really do annoy me and I've seen people just killing you and then not even checking what you got, just running off.

Bandits are scum and I hate, physically hate them. Rocket, release an address for it so we can go around and beat the living shit outta the bandits in real life :D I think 90% of people here would second it who hate the bandits :D

Edited July 26, 2012 by kyle939

[JD_274 18]

The problem i have with this system is that it is fueled by.... magic.

First of all, you dont see the name of anyone (unless on regular/recruit servers/tags are enabled , which is stupid in its own way).

If you get killed by someone chances are you never saw it coming, let alone identify who shot you.

If you get killed, you are dead, there is no magical "put name in book so others can avenge me".

The tendency to do magical things should be confined to the areas that would otherwise break the game for an ever growing gaming experience(respawning Zeds/loot/vehicles). Everything else should follow the plausible fiction route, this game is currently trying to go.

If these notebooks where implemented, you should have to type whatever you want to be in there yourself - manually. This of course would mean, that everything written in there could be a lie.

Admittedly, the idea of writing a name on the book so others can avenge you is kind of going out on a limb, but really it's just narrative. A scavenger wrote his last words on a notebook, and it in fact could be false, this is why I never make it clear to you that people in red or orange hues are necessarily horrible people. ANYONE can make an accusation so long as their name hasn't already been slandered.

You could nitpick all you want saying how a prompt that has you write down your killer's name is "unrealistic" and too "magical" but you could also argue that it's kind of "magical" how you ended up in a shore in a place infested with zombies with conveniently placed supplies in a backpack you somehow got. It's not "magical", it's narrative. The writing a name down prompt simply provides a player (in possession of the notebook mind you) with an indirect way to get back at his killer and make gameplay more interesting and fair in a way that stays true to the style of Day Z, which is ultimately based upon scavengers, trying to make their way through the wasteland, possibly telling their tales through a dirty piece of paper or telling it to another scavenger before he shot him in the face.

[JD_274 18]

It is the recollections of dead travelers who instantly know the name of their murderer and who are somehow able to instantly share that informatoin across time and space with all other holders of this object?

That's magic, brother.

If an item like this were to exist, it would have to be stand-alone, meaning one instance of it exists on a player and he is able to record crimes he witnesses, but only if he survives to tell the tale. If he dies, he leaves the notebook behind and it can be picked up by another player and added to, but other players who find separate or new notebooks would find them blank and have to make their own.

In this way it eliminates both forms of magic inherent in your system, and creates a much more realistic way to document crimes in the game. Players could play almost exclusively as journalists, documenting crimes without getting involved.

You still have the problem of not knowing the person's name to contend with, but you can get around this with perhaps photography or a sketch of the assailant?

What if I want to make a notebook full of false crimes, am I allowed?

There is a problem with it, actually. I'm all for PvP and fully against artificial deterrents, but if the players themselves want to try and establish a system of law and order by systematically identifying criminals, then they should be given the tools to do so.

rocket himself has said he wants players to either establish order or let the game devolve into a free-for-all frenzy. But if he wants to make those both equal possibilities, he must provide some tools to accomplish both. Right now we have a lot of tools to wreak havoc, but not many to establish order - because those are the more complicated mechanics like base building, squad identification and player classification.

I will never support deterrents or punishments for PvP that are built into the game, but if rocket gives players tools and they use them to establish their own deterrents and their own system of punishments then he will have truly achieved something amazing (and unprecedented in the world of online PvP).

Check my ideas & suggestions post for a post on identifying players.

What you misunderstand about my idea is that it isn't a deterrent to PvP, it is merely a system of establishing trust among scavengers to encourage teamwork as well as providing a new sense of caution when it comes to meeting certain scavengers. The story behind the notebook isn't just dead travelers, it's live travelers you don't meet. You as an individual get your chance to pass on your message through the notebook only through death, but this doesn't mean everyone who had the notebook before you did.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

What you misunderstand about my idea is that it isn't a deterrent to PvP, it is merely a system of establishing trust among scavengers to encourage teamwork as well as providing a new sense of caution when it comes to meeting certain scavengers.

Okay, that's fine. But my critique still stands. I don't really care if it's there to document the pretty flowers you find in Chernarus - it shouldn't be magically and instantly shared across all other instances of the item in the game.

Make it a stand-alone object and let players who find it inherit the information from previous owners, but it shouldn't just absorb information magically from the surroundings.

This makes for a much more immersive experience. Imagine finding a notebook on a body that included hundreds of documented actions and now allowed you to identify the parties or objects involved?

The very old journals would become some of the most powerful and sought-after objects in the game - no matter what information they contained. Friend, foe, points of interest like vehicle spawns, etc.

Edited July 26, 2012 by ZedsDeadBaby

[Blakorr 77]

i'm not terribly keen on this idea, but it's far better than anything else that's been suggested so far.

[JD_274 18]

Okay, that's fine. But my critique still stands. I don't really care if it's there to document the pretty flowers you find in Chernarus - it shouldn't be magically and instantly shared across all other instances of the item in the game.

Make it a stand-alone object and let players who find it inherit the information from previous owners, but it shouldn't just absorb information magically from the surroundings.

This makes for a much more immersive experience. Imagine finding a notebook on a body that included hundreds of documented actions and now allowed you to identify the parties or objects involved?

The very old journals would become some of the most powerful and sought-after objects in the game - no matter what information they contained. Friend, foe, points of interest like vehicle spawns, etc.

Believe me you, I have considered the idea of having player passed on journals and enjoy entertaining ideas that would add further immersion in the game, but the main problem with that is this: It would be very difficult to code and even if it was implemented in the game, only certain people would have access to these old notebooks. The idea behind the notebooks is to make them semi-scarce but readily available for new players to co-op as soon as possible.

While I do understand that it sacrifices certain realistic aspects, it could just as easily be assumed that the information was already there. Aside from that, player-specific journals would also be delving into the "ultra-realistic" aspect of the game, one which Rocket has already made explicitly clear he does not want to venture in, regardless of how immersive it is.

[Golgo82 28]

Admittedly, the idea of writing a name on the book so others can avenge you is kind of going out on a limb, but really it's just narrative. A scavenger wrote his last words on a notebook, and it in fact could be false, this is why I never make it clear to you that people in red or orange hues are necessarily horrible people. ANYONE can make an accusation so long as their name hasn't already been slandered.

You could nitpick all you want saying how a prompt that has you write down your killer's name is "unrealistic" and too "magical" but you could also argue that it's kind of "magical" how you ended up in a shore in a place infested with zombies with conveniently placed supplies in a backpack you somehow got. It's not "magical", it's narrative. The writing a name down prompt simply provides a player (in possession of the notebook mind you) with an indirect way to get back at his killer and make gameplay more interesting and fair in a way that stays true to the style of Day Z, which is ultimately based upon scavengers, trying to make their way through the wasteland, possibly telling their tales through a dirty piece of paper or telling it to another scavenger before he shot him in the face.

It IS magical if you dont have to type it in yourself.

-If you get shot and take 7k+ Damage in Blood you usually pass out disabling character control - which means your character cant do shit(like wrting a name in a notebook of a person he never saw/knew and never knew the name of).

-If you get instantly(1-3 seconds of engagement) killed you are in fact DEAD - which means you can't do shit as well((like wrting a name in a notebook of a person he never saw/knew and never knew the name of).

If you die without having written something down in your book, they are not your last words.

Fact is, this idea does not work in the context of the game as long as you magically get the name of your killer, magically put it down in a book, even though you never had the chance to type it yourself.

You should have read my post, where i clearly stated that there are "magical" things like respawning Loot/Zeds/Players but these are what you call NARRATIVE, because without them the game would cease to function.

Just because you introduce a feature suggestion that involves magical ninja lore and call it narrative doesnt make it part of the narrative - its still magical ninja lore.

Just as the introduction of bandit skins was a bad decision(so rocket removed it) due to magical ninja lore, this one is as well.

The idea that anyone who kills someone else has to dress seperately is stupid in itself, as well as the idea of seeing someones name and karmic reputation from up to a mile away through binoculars.

There is a huge need to make coop more attractive, but that is not accomplished by introducing strange outgame features into a hardcore game environment where they do not belong.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Golgo82

[ollox 38]

This is a terrible idea because immediately recognising people as good or bad destroys a lot of game-play and tension. You'd be a fool to trust someone based on stats anyway so this serves little to no purpose -- if someone is friendly they wont shoot unless threatened.

I think notebooks are a cool idea but only if the player writes in them and there are no magical powers.

This is another example of people not thinking how THEY would solve these problems but thinking about magical curses to impose on bandits.

[JD_274 18]

It IS magical if you dont have to type it in yourself.

-If you get shot and take 7k+ Damage in Blood you usually pass out disabling character control - which means your character cant do shit(like wrting a name in a notebook of a person he never saw/knew and never knew the name of).

-If you get instantly(1-3 seconds of engagement) killed you are in fact DEAD - which means you can't do shit as well((like wrting a name in a notebook of a person he never saw/knew and never knew the name of).

This notebook isn't player-specific retelling of their deaths, this is a notebook is a collection of names written by arbitrary scavengers like yourself, who may or may have not written their last words on it. If your biggest qualm with my idea is that you can write your name down upon death, then assume you were describing someone before he chose to shoot you in the skull. The notebook isn't supposed to make sense in context of other players, it's supposed to make sense based on what you "read" of other scavengers. The "writing the name down" simply adds a feature to deduct from their score, it doesn't mean "Player A specifically read Player C's story on Player B before he shot him"

Just because this prompt is slightly unrealistic, doesn't make it magical, otherwise alt-f4'ing must be wizardry in your eyes

[drseptapus 49]

I'm not a fan of you automatically knowing who killed you. If a bandit outplayed you and one shotted you while you had no idea they were there, I think that the bandit should get away unpunished.

I would support a bounty board of sorts. Once we are able to make bases, I would support a public board where everybody can write what they want. If someone keeps getting killed in a certain area, they could leave a warning on the board for other survivors. I'm against the tagging, as some servers have it disabled, and I would even argue that all servers should.

This is definitely a step in the right direction. As others have said it's just a little to magical.

[Ganjastar 53]

OK, you have my name...

Good luck finding me in a server with nametags turned off :P

did you expect a newbie carebear solution to "greifing" would consider anything other then beginner servers with nametags :D

[JD_274 18]

This is a terrible idea because immediately recognising people as good or bad destroys a lot of game-play and tension. You'd be a fool to trust someone based on stats anyway so this serves little to no purpose -- if someone is friendly they wont shoot unless threatened.

You just said how it would destroy gameplay tension, but then would have little to no effect. This is where it shines because ultimately it's up to you what you do with the information and to trust the guy just wasn't attacked by a group and survived it. And as I explained before there is no magic, but this seems to be the running theme with arguements against me because even the slightest hint of unrealism in a videogames KILLS ALL realism along with it.

[kovalhuk 19]

not a good idea,

How will you write if you are dead?

I'd rather to reconize him if i survive,

If he was close than 20 yards (or whatever) and in front of me when he shoot me, and i survive, his ID will be saved in my "mind". So when i cross him again some voice in the thought says :

"Humm..I know that bastard" (or something better, i dont speak english fluently)