FULL Medical / First aid

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

I have seen various threads that supply a diverse set of improvements or ideas regarding the medical system, some just cover one idea others almost always miss a few aspects. In this OP i will be trying to cover all medical ideas in hopes of reducing the amount of 'half complete' compilation threads. And YOU can help me do so, if you think i am missing an aspect of the medical system let me know in a reply; know of a good thread that covers just a single aspect of any of the medical/first aid suggestions here in this thread, let me know! Hopefully we can construct a full medical 'suggestion' that covers all aspects with links to good discussions about any single aspect of it. Hopefully we do good enough for the Mods to sticky this thread to reduce the amount of medical suggestions to realy new ones!

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This thread deals with all the first aid/medical sollutions to physical conditions in this thread:

http://dayzmod.com/f...-full-physical/

The wall of text below includes the following topics: blood, reviving, dehydration/starvation, wounds, hypo/hyper thermia, pain, infections, illness, poison, broken bones, and addiction; in that order, as well as various side effects to treatments. Links to various threads discussing these topics individually or elements of them in more details are supplied where applicable.

Blood

Blood represents the amount of HP a person has, the number 12000HP is based upon the amount of 'pints (half liters)' of blood a person has, aka. a person has around 5-6liters of blood, thus 10-12 pints, thus 12000HP. When you get to around 4000HP you will start to experience on screen effects, like blurring of the screen..

regeneration

The human body regenerates blood on a constant basis (aka. bloodcells die and your body replaces them), if for some reason you loose blood (f/e donating it) your body starts to make more bloodcells and plasma to replace the amount of lost blood. This happens regardless of being well fed and saturated, obviously the amount of time it takes will depend on it somewhat. The following thread has a good discussion about regeneration: link to come

From this thread it was somewhat concluded that regeneration of 2 HP/min would both be 'authentic' as well as minor enough to not ruin the gaming experience, since this means a mere 120 HP/Hour. Discussion about this feature can be had in the thread linked...

replenishing

Health points are currently replenished in 'three' ways; Canned Food (200hp), Cooked meat (800hp), Bloodbag (all HP). While only the bloodbag is truely 'medical' food is added here as well because it's a sollution to refilling your HP.

- More items could give a bit of HP, f/e drinks, cookies/candy added

- Each food item could have it's own HP stats (sardines being different from frank&beans)

- Apply Bloodbags to yourself, generally frowned upon for various reasons: link to come

- Bloodbags should perhaps only refill the amount of HP in relation to the amount of blood that is in them, so say a bloodbag holds 3 pints, that would make it replenish 1500HP.

Regeneration&Replenishment in one

This seems to be a somewhat popular alternative suggestion, 'the minecraft way': generate/replenish health over time given one is well fed and well hydrated.

Side effects blood:

- Getting food poisoning or gastronomical infection; these might be contracted by 'spoiling' meat while gutting an animal. If the meat gets spoiled the knife can be infected for a period of time, also spoiling other meat sources. Putting the knife in the fire would sterilize the knife and remove any contamination.

Reviving

While this can be considdered part of the 'blood' topic i put this in it's own catagory because it's somewhat controversial. There is currently no means to revive a freshly killed player. http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/56033-defibrillators/

- There should be a short time window in which a player can be ressurected given the proper tools/meds are applied.

- Defibrilators could be added to the game, giving a chance to ressurect a freshly killed player.

- Adrenalin shots could be needed aswell

- Any state the player was in, f/e bleeding, should reappear, needing to be dealt with.

- The player would ressurect with a very low amount of HP, so (a) bloodbag(s) could be needed aswell

- The player would likely experience pain as well, so painkillers and/or methadon may be advicable.

All in all resurrecting a player should take a great effort and thus have a great psychological impact. It should not be a mere 'shock' and play on experience.

Dehydration & Starvation

While not realy having a medical sollution, these are still part of the whole physical system in the game and there are suggestions dealing with these, or adding medical consequences to certain food/drink items. Both of these have various warnings signs in their icon and screen effects, clearing a bad state is currently done with food/drinks.

- Use a calory based system for the food needs, giving every 'activity' a certain calory usage.

- Give every food/drink item a calory stat. instead of a the current binary 'filled needs'.

- Give food/drink items a hydration stat. not all drinks are that hydrating and some food items have liquids in them too.

- Meat (cooked/raw) should spoil.

- Drinking water from lakes/streams should have a chance on infection/illness/poisoning, boiling water first should clear this thread

- Maybe damaged can's (dented model) can be added to the game, giving a chance on foodpoisoning (see below)

- Add cookies, candybars, cake to the game

- Add military meals to the game.

Wounds

Currently there is only bleeding in the game, this is a condition that has a + flashing in your blood icon, and blood squirting out of your character. Your HP get reduced by ? HP/sec, stopping bleeding is done by applying a bandage (to yourself or another person)

- There could be different types of wounds, say: cuts, gashes, artery bleeds, all with their own HP/sec, icon and possibly sollution. Each type of wound could have a different side effect: no pain, mild pain, severe pain (see 'pain' below).

- Gunshot wounds may need the removal of a bullit, with either hunting knife or scalpel

- Antiseptics may be added to lower the chances on infections when treating wounds

- Rags could be added as drops that can be used as a bandage, with a chance on infection (see 'infection' below)

- Rags could be sterilized by boiling them in water, and as such turn them into bandages

- tourniquets added as another way to stop bleeding. A tourniquet could be made by combining rags/bandages with wood, or the medical C-A-T could be added. Tourniquets cause pain, but they will stop gashes/artery bleeds...

- Medical Needle & threads could be added to stitch, as an alternative to bandages or rags. Possible sollution to more severe wounds (f/e a gash needing 3 bandages or 1 stiching)

- Quite possibly an 'open fracture' can be introduced, adding bleeding and severe pain to a broken bone situation (see 'broken bone' below)

- Perhaps wounds could heal with time as well, given bandaged, so that:

- If the game could register (hit boxes) where a player is hit, wounds could effect certain other abilities during the time they heal, wounded legs could affect walking/running abilities (chance for the wound to start bleeding again). Or the ability to use a hand...

- The maximum health could also be effected (lowered) during the time a person is wounded, and climb back up during healing.

Side effects to wounds:

- getting the wound infected.

Hypo/Hyper thermia

Undercooling and overheating, two states related to the thermometer (currenly slightly bugged as per one of Rocket's interviews). Currently Hypothermia causes the shivers and may ultimately lead to the commen cold. 'Healing' from the hypothermia state is done with a heatpack, you can get hypothermic by swimming very long or staying in the rain to long. Hyperthermia doesn't seem to have something linked to it, nor does it seem to have a fix.

- Use the 'proper' 37C degrees on the temperature, as it makes more sense to people...

- Clothing could at one point be introduced, which could give a more subtle way to controll body temperature. Raincoats may reduce getting cold in the rain for an added noise signature. Insulated clothes keep you warm, while thin clothes (or none) would keep you 'cold'

- Both of these conditions can eventually lead to death, and once the thermometer is fixed they should do so after a certain exposure time.

- Fires may be a way to get warm again, as could running, and emergency blankets could do the same, perhaps even body heat?

- hunger may speed up when hypothermic.

- Hyperthemia should lead to weakness, dizzyness and eventually blackouts.

- Thirst may speed up when hyperthermic.

- Drinking water may reduce symptomes, cooling packs could be introduced working similar to heatpacks. Sitting in the shade, taking clothes off may reduce symptomes.

Burns

While fire is not yet a big part of the game, it may become one, especially if the much desired 'molotov' is added to the game. And various accidents with cars or other machines might cause fires too, and thus getting burned.

- Stopping being on flames would be fixed by rolling on the floor (unsure whick [key] shortcut this does)

- Stopping flames might be done by wrapping a player in a fire blanket (? if possible)

- A player could get 1 to 3 degree burns, and would obviously die from being on fire too long!

- 1st degree burns would cause mild pain for a certain period of time, unless treated with a coldpack, painrelief may help as well, but only for as long as the pain relief works, in relation to the time the burns cause pain (see 'Pain' below)

- 2nd degree burns would cause medium pain, burning pain needs to be dealt with by ?? (for example combining a coldpack with bandages to create a longer lasting relief). It could be dealth with in 2 stages even, after a certain period of time the fix would wear out, leaving mild pain. Applying a cold pack no longer works and medication has to be taken to suppress the pain.

- 3rd degree burns would cause severe pain, after applying the ??? (f/e combination of a coldpack with bandages) the pain would be reduced to medium pain, and has to be dealt with by taking medication.

*!* I wonder in howfar it will be possible to distinguish burning pain with regular pain in coding though, and in a sense applying pain medication would also work, still though, i think having a sollution to deal with these burns by other means as a first sollution (coldpacks f/e) could reduce the amount of time the injury lasts and thus reduce the amount times medication needs to be used. Which will have a positive effect on developing addictions.

Pain

Pain is a condition that I think comes in a few forms already, currently represented by shaking of the screen for mild pain, upto to blurring due to heavy or severe pain (not sure though). Pain is currently relieved by Pain Killers.

- If the above severities of pain aren't already included, they should be. Mild pain could shake your screen, medium pain could have your screen shake and blur, while severe pain would have your character scream in agony as well.

- Pain should have a time associated with it, as such:

* Alcohol could be added as a short duration relieve.

* Painkillers could give a short duration of pain relieve, the box of pain killers should have more pills in them, or come in 'used' states (3/5 for example)

* Methadon would give a long duration of relieve.

- Certain physical conditions could have 'shoots' of pain instead of a longer duration (f/e running with a splint, see 'broken bones' below)

Side effects to pain:

- Alcohol would get you 'drunk' after consuming a lot of it, giving wonky effect to your screen. Maybe at some point you would vomit. Using it regulary might get you addicted.

- Painkillers could 'wear out' after consuming them regulary, giving a reduced effect, ultimatly leading to having to use a lot of alcohol and/or methadon instead.

- Using methadon regulary may get you addicted, some 'wear' could be applied having it last shorter as you use it more often.

Infections

Currently the only 'infection' you can get in the game is either the commen cold or the actual zombie infection (not sure which), which is contracted if you reach a very low body temperature due to rain or swimming (not sure if a timelimit is also implemented). The cue for this particular infection is that your character starts coughing, the cure is likely to be antibiotics.

IRL there are various kinds of infections, ranging from: 'foreign object removal' (getting a grain of sand inside a wound may cause it to 'infect' the 'puss' build up creates presure underneath the crust or skin which 'if popped' can remove the foreign object from the body), bacterial infection, viral infection, fungal infection. Some of these would classify somewhat as an 'illness' due to the bodies reaction to the infection. For gaming purpose simplicity two or maybe one of these would suffice, while a third may be included in 'illness'...

- Antiseptics may be added to lower the chances on infections when treating wounds

- The cue for infection of wounds could be the blood icon rim coloring yellow (so not the inside that changes color depending on the amount of HP)

- The cure for the infection could be antibiotics.

- Another cure could be 'bleeding', cutting the wound open with a hunting knife or scalpel, letting the wound bleed for X time untill the blood icon turns green again, to then bandage the wound to stop the bleeding.

Illness, being sick

Currently there is no illness in the game, unless you considder the infection you contract at very low body temperature as an illness.

IRL an illness can manifest itself in various ways, ranging from pain, to feeling weak and dizzy, to getting a fever or even a lowered body temperature. Currently the temperature gage is not functioning properly (as stated by Rocket in some interview). But once it does, i think running a fever could be a good way to convey sickness.

- a lightning bolt sign inside the bloodicon could signify illness as well as a raised temperature.

- illness would make your character weak (see the 'full physical'-thread for strength and weakness)

- a cure could be the counter intuitive applying 3x heatpack

- a cure could be antibiotics

- a cure could be drinking 'stock', made from boiling water & meat in a tin can.

Poisoning

Currently there is no poisoning in the game.

- Food poisoning brought on by 'spoiled' meat due to the wrong killing of animals, or mistakes while gutting could be the primal source.

- The knife used could have a: clean/dirty/infected state, where dirty could have a slim chance of spoiling meat, and infected a high chance. The knife could be sterilized by holding it in the fire.

- Adding a can opener and having the knife work as a means of opening cans as well could spread an infected state from the knife to canned food.

- A cure could be antibiotics, or eating charcoal, or specific antidotes.

Broken bones

Currently there is just 'broken bones'. The current cure for broken bones is methadon, if you have broken bones you can only crawl.

- broken bones and or fractures should always give pain, the kind of fracture could determain which kind of pain. Fracture = mild, broken = medium, open fracture = severe pain + bleeding.

- broken bones should heal by time.

- Splints could be added to restore walking/running ability (painkillers & methadon would then be used to combat the pain, see 'pain' above), where walking would give a random chance of a pain shoot every x steps. Running should give severe pain shoots.

- There could be makeshift splints, combining a couple of rags/bandages and wood. Medical 'walking casts' could be introduced. Both could have different stats in relation to the pain experienced when walking/running and the time needed to heal the broken bones.

- Walking or running with a splint could have a reduced maximum speed, also depending on the type of cast.

- crutches (be it makeshift from wood, or 'real' medical ones) could increase the speed but replace one or both hands (primairy/secondairy slots) increasing the maximum speed.

- If the game could register where one is being hit (hit boxes), a player might not always break their legs, but could break other limbs aswell, or even ribs, each location having a different implication: not being able to use primairy, or secondary hands, difficulty breathing effecting strength/stamina (for strength/stamina see the 'full physical' thread)

Side effects to broken bones:

Mostly pain, and reduced movement speed.

Addiction

Addiction is an entirely new element to the medical system, and is largely derived from the pain medication, but may be applicable to smoking or chocolat if these are introduced (ok chocolat was just a small joke).

- Addiction would introduce a new icon, to show up if addiction is applicable, and it would display the 'need' for the addiction, full green is no current need, and red is high need.

- from a certain point the character would start to go into withdrawl effects.

- addiction would be 'cured' by time, going through withdrawl, but it would be 'remembered' by giving a player a higher chance of becomming addicted again. So say one needs to consume 1 alcohol per hour for 24h to become addicted to it, after the addiction is cleared this could be reduced to 1 alcohol every 2h for 18hours. The time the withdrawl effects last could be prolongued. With every step.

- Perhaps a build down needs to be in place as well, meaning that if you don't drink for 24h you move back up the ladder a bit, meaning you would go back from 1 alcohol every 2h for 18hours to the normal addiction level. Given you don't drink...

Side effects to addiction:

The general stages of withdrawl are: 1. Itching & scratching; 2. Twitching added. 3 balling up and screaming for a shot, together with uncontrollable anger. These also depend on which kind of substance one is addicted to. 1 & 2 seem to be viable means to convey atleast 2 stages of 'need'; the last seems more suitable to go through in order to clear the addiction. After one is cleared from addiction there could be a time related to being entirely clean, while consuming within that timelimit could simulate falling back into the habbit.

Overall SIDE EFFECTS

Certain injuries may qualify for having a chance to cause a more permanent injury with 'semi-permanent' consequences for the character. F/e a broken bone that is set wrong, and cause limping, a wound that even though healed still prevents the use of an arm, etc... These kinds of side effects could then be dealt with in a hospital through surgery ...

! Have anything to add please reply, any interesting threads with good discussion on a specific topic in this Post are welcome too !

Edited August 9, 2012 by L0GIN

[thatcommiekid 57]

Side affects of all ingested/ injected medical supplies.

[knaxx 4]

Side affects of all ingested/ injected medical supplies.

These should be added. I don't want to develop liver disease from taking too much asprin. Or if they can have the same side effects for morphine if they are opiate derived which I do not think they are as you cannot inject for pain. I want my char addicted to opiates so I have to be on a morphine drip for AT LEAST 1 hour before I get weened off of it.

[Riis 22]

Well I'll be keeping an eye on this thread and if you want, I'll give my opinion and experiences from a realistic view, which someone else can then take apart and perhaps get to work in a game enviroment :).

[DayZPvP.com 143]

I agree that a move fleshed-out medical system would be nice. Have a look at Project Reality they have already done it in BF2 and ArmA2.

[Kakashi-Madara 0]

I think that the blood being replenished should be more. After donating blood in real life, your usually regenerate it by the end of the day. So I think it should be 1000HP in an hour. Thats 12000HP in 12 hours. And since most people arnt going to play 24/7 id say that it is fair. But Another thought could be maybe make it 500HP an hour and make it so Food make it regenerate faster aswell.

[Kakashi-Madara 0]

WOUNDS-

BROKEN BONES: I think that when you get a broken bone(leg) that you should still be able to crouch, but only slowly. One main reason besides realism, is that when you had a broken leg and your prone, you cant for say, go up stairs, or even some doors. I know you can climb over with "v" But its a little retarded. And I also think that you should be able to still walk and and run, but causes more noise and possible bleeding.

PAIN: Should cause extra noise when moving. But should get better shortly after.

INFECTIONS: Should add:

FEVER- causes very slow health loss, and gets worse if nothing is done, can cause fainting if not treated for extended time.

Cure- Antibiotics found in hospitals and res. houses. Maybe even cold packs

COLDS- causes minimal shaking, if not treated has chance of giving you fever aswell,

Cure- Meds found in hospitals and res houses.

DRUG ABUSE- causes shaking, hearing and sight get reduced.

Cure- Time, and drinking + eating makes the time speed up.

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

@DayZPvP, well this is to be both a suggestion compilation thread for DayZ for implementation, as well as a tread that should reduce the repetition of medical threads given people use search... Also by supplying links to various topics perhaps discussion can continue on each and every subject seperatly, and I will update the OP to reflect on additions changes in those threads. So if people come with good suggestions from the PR versions, then sure i will include them, but for now i will stick to getting the general stuff written down, including any of the additions people make in this thread ;)

[Krusteh 1]

maybe a splint instead of morphine for broken bones, but found in same spot/frequency. morphine should be just another pain killer. maybe also add tourniquets which do same as a bandage for variety US forces do supply troops with single hand apllied tourniquets. needle and thread are not really apllicable in this type of environement and they are used to close woulds not arrest bleeding.

blood replenishment: currently the transfusion, and food replenishment seem alright. Blood might also regenerate slowly over a period of DAYS. in real life it takes more than a fair bit of time to replenish oneself from a significant blood loss (weeks). The volume is compensated rapidly by taking in more fluids, but not the red cell mass. the shock thats in the game works well to reflect the impact of a severe significant injury. Passing out also seems appropriate the way it is currently done.

Wounds. maybe add that any wound that bleeds has a chance of becoming infected. maybe fever ( high temp) shaking....releaved by tylenol (painkillers) temporarily. Cured by antibiotics...which would need to be more common.

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

@Kursteh, on most of your stuff slow down, i'm getting there eventually :P ... added tourniquets to bleeding, though it sounds mostly like a partial 'cure' for artery bleeds. While a needles and thread may not be applicable in your views that doesn't say anything about it being suggested though, and i personally think the reality of it stopping bleeding or not is besides the point, in essence it does help reduce bleeding as you close up the wound which then needs to form less 'crust' to close up, likely also reducing bleeding.

Some of these sollutions may also be tweaked as i start looking for good threads that cover a single topic, and based upon discussion there i might add or change things a bit...

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

Ok, off to fill the 'full physical' thread now, i'll deal with searching interesting topics some other day, if you feel like i missed something please let me know. Some topics descriptions might be a bit 'weak' as i didn't recall any discussion about them in great details, hopefully people can point me in the right direction, or it may turn out that a topic just hasn't been discussed as a standalone thread, in which case this will turn up during my searching efforts, I will start a thread on it if i can't find one. Feel free to do so yourself, but PLEASE ONLY IF YOU CAN"T FIND ONE!!!

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

Reviving, Hypo/Hyperthermia, 'food' poisoning added to the list with cures.

[Riis 22]

Tourniquet: Perhaps add the C-A-T to the game as a fast temporary solution to bleedings on the extremeties. Would need to be replaced with a bandage at some point. Would cause severe pain untill removed.

EDIT: Drinking alcohol as a painreliever while suffering from bloodloss / broken bones could induce hypothermia, but shouldn't show in the "meter"

Edited July 25, 2012 by Riis

[Frozen (DayZ) 144]

in case of infection and cold, there should be alternative to antibiotics as pepper tincture(pepper+strong alcohol) and its also temporary heats up body,

Edited July 25, 2012 by Frozen

[Riis 22]

in case of infection and cold, there should be alternative to antibiotics as pepper tincture(pepper+strong alcohol) and its also temporary heats up body,

No, it cools you down, but it feels like you're getting warmer.

[vesmo 21]

I think that the blood being replenished should be more. After donating blood in real life, your usually regenerate it by the end of the day.

Uh, no you don't. The weakness will be over in about a day but that's mainly because your body produces more plasma but it still means your blood is quite diluted due to the reduced erythrocyte count. You are only allowed to donate blood so many times a year (about a month apart? I don't remember the exact time) because it takes a long time to fully regenerate your blood cell count.

[thatcommiekid 57]

These should be added. I don't want to develop liver disease from taking too much asprin. Or if they can have the same side effects for morphine if they are opiate derived which I do not think they are as you cannot inject for pain. I want my char addicted to opiates so I have to be on a morphine drip for AT LEAST 1 hour before I get weened off of it.

Morphine is isnt an opiate... Or is it O.o?

[Riis 22]

Morphine is isnt an opiate... Or is it O.o?

Haldid / Fentanyl is a morphine product, but its not an opiate which is why you can use it on people who are allergic to Opiates :).

[Bludy 324]

to me it's great idea, and also well written. i'd implement a system that tell you WHERE you are wounded. so you can decrease speed or cause pain for example if you have a leg wound or a severe cut and you run it's possible it starts again to bleed.

[Quaby 93]

SO MUCH MEDS, SO LITTLE SPACE!

Just a little over the top in realism IMO.

[sonicrainbrony 136]

The "dislocation icon" you mentioned is not a dislocation icon. It's shock.

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

@Quaby, this is a compilation thread of almost all the suggestion i ran into dealing with medical situations, including some of my own. Obviously choices would have to be made by Rocket in regards to what he thinks is good for the game, as well as possible. Though i think almost all of these are fairly good, some better than others, but anyways...

@Blundy, good you mention location, it will be added...

@Frozen & Riis, Riis is physically correct, alcohol doesn't heat up the body, it gives the 'illusion' of heat some way, but, this could be a way to deal with cold 'if' morale were to be added. where alcohol clears the low morale of being cold, but it doesn't actually effect the bodies temperature... Though i have yet to see a good morale suggestion which doesn't effect immersion alot. See the moment you put a morale meter in the game, the character will start to have feelings appart from your (the players) feelings, making him less like 'you' and more like some character you play. You yourself could feel quite frustrated about the zeds blocking your way to some building, while the characters morale is tiptop :D. Or you could be feeling fine with being cold/hot, since you know a barn is up ahead where you can deal with it, at the same time your character may well be whining and w/e... both situations seem to be able to occur fairly often, and would not be to good for the game (in my views)

@Riis, i'll add C-A-T as a medical tourniquet sollution. I checked the internet and found a sollution with 2 bandages and a stick, but i am all for having alternatives to reduce the 'binary effect' of having something or not...

@Sonic, the icon which seems to resemble a scatered knee is shock ? what does it do please ?

Edited July 25, 2012 by L0GIN

[enforcer1975 1111]

I'd like to se realistic wound healing. Taking weeks to heal a broken bone so you have to run around with a cast. Or a gunshot would also take some time...

[ScottyTheEngineer 47]

Although I like the idea of realism, all of these changes would be simply too much. However, I would like to see a defibrillator as well. Headshots should result in a permanent death, but players killed by shots in the torso should have a certain probability of revival (50-60%? Should reflect the possibility of significant damage to vital organs) when a defi is applied by another player. Players with injuries to the limbs only should always be revivable within a certain time period (does the game engine distinguish between body- and limb shotsanyway?).

If we want the game to develop in a more realistic direction, blood bags shold be removed completely and replaced by a direct transfusion from player to player. In reality, blood bags remain fresh ony for a certain period of time and only if they are cooled.

However, I'd like the players to become more vulnerabe and thus the game to become more realistic!

Edited July 25, 2012 by ScottyTheEngineer

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

@Enforcer, you be glad to know that I added time to wounds already ;)