3rd person view and other aid’s? discussion .

[jschaefer97@gmail.com 2]

I use third person for running around especially at night if your carrying a light, but if I'm going to be shooting (which is rarely) I aim down the sights. The my only complaint with third person is the tags, you shouldn't be able to scan a ridge line and "see" the person that is prone on the other side of a pine tree with your cross hair.. Other than that I just find moving around easier in third person where I'm more aware of my surroundings.

So keep third person, but remove the player name tagging and probably the cross hair as well.

[Felix (DayZ) 21]

My 2 cents, I prefer the options off servers, I'll keep playing on them as long as they're available.

I don't begrudge people who like 3rd person and the other aids, but I don't want them and I don't want to play against other players using them.

My only two gripes are the buggy direct comms which work sometimes and other times not.

When they do work they're either way too quiet or you can hear somebody talking softly the next hill over. (Yes, we did have a sniper on a hill on watch that could hear us down in town on direct) Other times you're right next to them and it's barely audible even with max mic and just about screaming.

Second gripe is lack of visual differentiation that can help for identifying players.

These are things that will probably be worked out during development, but they're also the two things that almost make me want to play on a server where I can point my crosshair at a bush and see a name pop up.

[magnumx70@gmail.com 2]

I use third person for running around especially at night if your carrying a light' date=' but if I'm going to be shooting (which is rarely) I aim down the sights. The my only complaint with third person is the tags, you shouldn't be able to scan a ridge line and "see" the person that is prone on the other side of a pine tree with your cross hair.. Other than that I just find moving around easier in third person where I'm more aware of my surroundings.

So keep third person, but remove the player name tagging and probably the cross hair as well.

[/quote']

Totally agree!!!

[mastrovara 0]

I love 1st person and all the troubles with movement and awarness don't stand a chance against ruined PvP:

Third person does lend a HUGE advantage to being on a rooftop. You can pick out potential targets without having to put yourself into a position to be shot at and exposed to fire. Then when they have their back to you pop up out of cover and drop them. It is also easy to peer over and around walls.

True Story Bro!

But that flare blinding thing must be fixed.

I think 3rd person and crosshairs are at best debatable' date=' and at worst unnecessary, but we NEED a system of identifying other players. There is nothing more immersion destroying than not being able to tell my group members apart from each other, or recognize another player.[/quote']

Hope this will get fixed via random skins soon! :)

[jschaefer97@gmail.com 2]

I think 3rd person and crosshairs are at best debatable' date=' and at worst unnecessary, but we NEED a system of identifying other players. There is nothing more immersion destroying than not being able to tell my group members apart from each other, or recognize another player.

Please don't remove ID's. The servers without them are massively less enjoyable for me (they discourage ad hoc grouping), and in almost no way better.

[/quote']

A good solution to this, is if there was grouping or a "friends/allies" list, and it could be set to only show the names of people who are in your group or on your friends list, than a stranger would still be a stranger, but friends would be identifiable as such.

[lev 39]

As people have mentioned before, just leave these settings up to the server. I almost exclusively play on the UO servers now since they are the only ones with settings that I prefer (no third person, no crosshairs, no space detection).

Even as a three year vet of A2 I'll admit that Arma's motion systems need some tweaking as in a lot of CQC situations you feel extremely clumsy. I'm not even talking about having the gun raised up and getting stuck in doorways (which shouldn't be an issue as IRL, you'd automatically lower/raise your weapon in tight situations without knocking yourself into a wall and getting stuck, and current manual raising and lowering weapon is too clumsy to execute smoothly). Sometimes its just abnormally hard to crawl or run through a door way properly without ending up getting caught on a corner or a model or something. In the outdoor situations, there are minor clumsiness issues such as being unable to crawl over some minor features like railway tracks or small bumps. But overall the system works decently well.

However, I will admit that most complaints are either targeted to the milsim nature of the game or simply players having been used to the on-rails feeling of modern FPS games. Complaining about being able to move and shoot is ridiculous. Anyone with real life experience using firearms knows that when moving, you aren't really aiming and can't be expected to accurately hit anything more than a few meters away. This is handled well in A2 and you actually have to stop moving to aim for anything further than 15-20m. The clunky sensation you feel in game is actually because you are A) carrying a ton of gear, B) people don't move like ballerinas, its just that over time you have become accustomed to your own motions IRL so you don't perceive the clunkiness of it. Try playing more A2 in first person, once you actually start immersing yourself in the game you rarely feel that clunkiness since you are more focused on your environment and surroundings as you are IRL. This is only further demonstrated by the fact that people feel clunky in first person but not third person where the only thing that has changed is the camera positions. In first person all that is happening is that your camera is placed into where your head would be in real life, hence the ability to look at your own body as you do things. Like I said before, its a matter of getting used to having a virtual "physical" body as opposed to a camera with a gun sticking out of it as in other FPS games.

Things particular to the dayZ mod that need some work are the blinding flares and chemlights since in first person your character seems fond of holding them up to your face rather to the side of your body.

[lt gunner 4]

There are addons that allow better movement in CQB situations. Since a lot of this mod focuses around going indoors in search of loot, or in defence from zombies, it would be nice to make it a part of the mod. Having server admins allow the mod on some servers, but not others would be a bad idea, plus not all on the server would have the addon, giving those with it an advantage in CQB situations.

As for 3rd person, crosshairs, and name scanning. Personally I hate any of that, I hate the little dots on the side of the screen that tell you whats nearby. I hate anything that aids a player in any way shape or form. I even hate that you can chat in side, group, command, global etc... only local chat should be enabled. Anything more than that and its just lame, and noob friendly. This is ARMA!

[phisher34 12]

Third person is about the only thing worth keeping. Sure people can look around walls, but everyone likes to see what they look like. It's a coolness factor.

Get rid of crosshairs and player ID. Ideally a system like other mods that would only identify if you were looking at the player for a few second and then pressed a button would make sense.

Being able to identify a player is important in communicating with them, but the pan and scan method seems to generous.

[Murphy (DayZ) 1]

While I may not prefer to play on servers without the "veteran" settings because of the immersion and perceived "fairness" in PvP I do agree with those posters who suggest leaving it up to the individual server admins. This way everyone can enjoy the game in the manner that suits them best.

Forcing everyone to conform to a standardized setting will even the playing field but could quite possibly alienate players.

[Braxton 3]

Personally' date=' I only play on servers that have third person enabled, just because I enjoy being able to see my character do things, and also, the game feels more solid. In my opinion the first person perspective in ARMA II is one of the worst I've ever played. It's choppy, hard to see, and makes me feel like I'm lagging when I'm not. Ontop of that its easy to forget if your crouching or standing up right. I suppose I could go without the crossairs, but I love being able to use third person.

We have to remember that although it's a simulation it's also a game, and that in real life we have senses at work, that we don't in a video game. Essentially we are only using sight and sound when playing a video game, but in real life you can feel a difference in the air when someone is sneaking up on you, or when their around the corner. Personally I feel the third person aspect adds even more realism to the game. You can see your character gutting an animal, building a fire, bandaging himself, and helping a teammate.

The third person aspect makes me feel like I'm playing a zombie game, and not a zombie mod for ARMA II. I think that right now, the way its set up, is perfect; some servers have third person and crossairs enabled, some do not. I don't think the mod should limit itself to just first person or vice versa, because how it is now, people can play however they want, and its fair for everyone since it is server decided. As long as everyone has the option, I'm sure everyone will be happy, so I don't see the devs ever taking it out.

[/quote']

Pretty much this 100%. I normally play OTHER games in First Person only, but Arma 2's viewpoint system is so absolutely HORRIBLE that I cannot stand to ever play Arma 2, ever, in first person.

Also, to end this thread you should really go look @ the server list. US3, 4, and 5 are all generally below 30-40 players out of 50 (right now US3 is 26/50) when about 14 other servers are 50/50. This is because US 3,4, and 5 are forced first person, and ALMOST all of the other servers are 3rd person enabled.

People who cry about people abusing the "looking around corners" deal are actually just crying. I never use it like that, and generally go into first person to use lean to peak around corners just because it's less buggy than trying to shift my 3rd person camera to do the same thing.

Also, I find the people whom complain about 3rd person camera & PvP issues to always think that because they died someone was exploiting the 3rd person camera, when the fact is they just died because they were in the wrong place @ the wrong time.

Most people I know whom play Arma 2, like me, can't play Arma 2 in first person. It's not because it's "More realistic", but because the game does a horrible job of rendering first person properly.

3rd person, by far, makes the game feel more involved seeing your character do things & move around his environment. Plus, with Arma2's movement system, it's pretty hard to know if you're crouched or not unless you spam your "Stand Up" key to be sure.

-Cheers

[vanomas 0]

3rd person view is cheating, like in GTA or Mafia.

1st person view is like in CS/CoD/BF game and it's prety much here - you cant observe over obstacles being in safe place.

3rd person view is for noobies that never played FPS on PC and don't know of giant cheating potential of that view.

[oilman 72]

Also' date=' I find the people whom complain about 3rd person camera & PvP issues to always think that because they died someone was exploiting the 3rd person camera, when the fact is they just died because they were in the wrong place @ the wrong time. [/quote']

Mind telling me how you could possibly know this?

[sata3d 3]

3rd person camera is not good for PVP

you can see in the edge of wall and can ambush a full team whit 3rd person camera on :(

[Andrew_Gill 0]

3rd person view is for scrubs. Think of all the baby bitches that would be crying even more if 3rd person was enabled on all the servers... think of the "Oh I got murdered as soon as I came around a corner" nonsense threads that would pop up... If you want an immersion mod, disable any help... keep it simple stupid... No 3rd person, no crosshairs, nothing. I like it how it is.

If oyu walked up to me in real life, would you be able to look over my head and see my name? No... you'd have to ask for it... Only thing that needs fixing in my opinion is direct chat.

[benedict000@hotmail.com 0]

I'm not going to read the whole thread but I do want to voice my opinion.

I can understand some people not liking 3d person. I mainly use it when running cross country but go back into 1st person when entering villages or come across a target. Every server can choose their own settings in regards to this so I am happy with that. In the event that it does get taken down I won't be all to fussed about it.

Crosshairs? Take them off. Be a man!

Player tags is something we really do need. I've had experiences where I could not distinguish my group with an enemy player. In real life you would be able to see their faces and be able to recognize them. In games it is a lot harder even when zooming in. There has to be some kind of recognition system because I am not shooting somebody that could possibly be in my group. Maybe even a group system where player names do pop up when aiming at them?

[Pallidum 33]

I love 3rd person mode.

Most 3D games give me motion sickness. Some games, like BF3, I can play for about an hour or maybe two if I'm lucky. Borderlands gives me about half an hour before I have to lie down and rest for two hours. WoW and RIFT works for me without too many problems, but 15 minutes of TF2 makes me want to throw up.

As for ARMA2, well I bought it on a whim because I like this style of games. I couldn't even make it through the intro of the first single-player campaign. A few months later, I decided to try it again with my gaming community in multiplayer and it was just as bad - until someone told me about 3rd person mode.

Surprisingly, I can play for hours in 3rd person mode without any problems at all, while 1st person mode gives me maybe 5-10 minutes of gameplay if I'm moving around. Stationary, 1st person mode works just fine.

I've clocked in 30-40 hours in DayZ over the past week or so. If I didn't have 3rd person mode, I'd be at less than 10 minutes.

[vanomas 0]

What's wrong with 1st person view in arma? Why do you hate it?

[alienfreak 6]

What's wrong with 1st person view in arma? Why do you hate it?

1st person in ArmA is just like in any game. Except that you have freelook to look around. So its arguably better.

People just love 3rd person and how much they see in it. That is the problem.

[Freyar 8]

I hate the first person view because it's restrictive, first person animations are not really that good, and movement feels significantly more sluggish. 'sides, I can't get good screenshots without a third person view.

[tuchmaipp 2]

As people have mentioned before' date=' just leave these settings up to the server. I almost exclusively play on the UO servers now since they are the only ones with settings that I prefer (no third person, no crosshairs, no space detection).

Even as a three year vet of A2 I'll admit that Arma's motion systems need some tweaking as in a lot of CQC situations you feel extremely clumsy. I'm not even talking about having the gun raised up and getting stuck in doorways (which shouldn't be an issue as IRL, you'd automatically lower/raise your weapon in tight situations without knocking yourself into a wall and getting stuck, and current manual raising and lowering weapon is too clumsy to execute smoothly). Sometimes its just abnormally hard to crawl or run through a door way properly without ending up getting caught on a corner or a model or something. In the outdoor situations, there are minor clumsiness issues such as being unable to crawl over some minor features like railway tracks or small bumps. But overall the system works decently well.

However, I will admit that most complaints are either targeted to the milsim nature of the game or simply players having been used to the on-rails feeling of modern FPS games. Complaining about being able to move and shoot is ridiculous. Anyone with real life experience using firearms knows that when moving, you aren't really aiming and can't be expected to accurately hit anything more than a few meters away. This is handled well in A2 and you actually have to stop moving to aim for anything further than 15-20m. The clunky sensation you feel in game is actually because you are A) carrying a ton of gear, B) people don't move like ballerinas, its just that over time you have become accustomed to your own motions IRL so you don't perceive the clunkiness of it. Try playing more A2 in first person, once you actually start immersing yourself in the game you rarely feel that clunkiness since you are more focused on your environment and surroundings as you are IRL. This is only further demonstrated by the fact that people feel clunky in first person but not third person where the only thing that has changed is the camera positions. In first person all that is happening is that your camera is placed into where your head would be in real life, hence the ability to look at your own body as you do things. Like I said before, its a matter of getting used to having a virtual "physical" body as opposed to a camera with a gun sticking out of it as in other FPS games.

Things particular to the dayZ mod that need some work are the blinding flares and chemlights since in first person your character seems fond of holding them up to your face rather to the side of your body.

[/quote']

thank you. i really cant understand how anyone can possibly be arguing against first person only. when i started this up just a few days ago i used first person and only first person, so now im used to it and it works fine for me. but wait a minute..there's a THIRD person perspective?? i log in and yes, for some reason there's third person.

The ability to peek around corners without exposing yourself is just stupid. Someone else in this thread said, "Oh but EVERYONE has the same advantage of using third person." Well not really. Only the guy standing at the corner has the view advantage; the guy whos walking up to the corner can't see behind the corner till he gets near.

I like how some other people argue "SO WAT IF IT RUIN PVP, U NO LIVE LONG NEWAY" or "JUST CAUSE U CAN USE 3RD PERSON DAT WAY DONT MEAN I USE IT LIEK DAT" ...wow.

Really, the only valid arguments imo are the ones who complain about the clunkiness of first person, which i can relate to because its the only perspective ive used, and gotten used to. I also have a feeling that people's computers cant play arma2 smoothly so that game/internet lag added to first person clunkiness makes for a very uncomfortable experience. To the first problem, dont try to change the way the game works, get used to it. its a big part of what sets this game apart from all the other shooters and zombie survival games out there and it's very satisfying when you get the hang of it. if you're running smooth FPS then, please, just learn the ropes before trying to make everything easy mode.

To the second problem, tweak your settings like anti aliasing and especially post processing to get rid of the motion blur. When i started playing this I could not get used to aiming because it felt like the crosshairs, er, i mean iron sights, had some sort of weight attached to them. Once i turned off motion blur i could aim where i wanted to - my aim lag was due to computer lag.

Finally, if you fall in the category of "my computer cant run arma2 please make this game easier so itll level the field" - no.

[codeine 3]

I feel blind in first person and the movement feels slow and clunky.

If there was no 3rd person, i would happily stop playing.

and 3rd person in PVP is basically horrible, your barrel could be clipping something you dont see in 3rd person, the only advantage it gives is looking around corners.

If im hunting a person through the woods, i would be checking both 3rd and 1st person, 3rd to check how concealed i am in the shrubbery, and first person to make sure my shots connect easily.

Just leave 3rd person alone!

[qla 0]

Too many times have i seen players camping behind cover using 3rd person to their advantage, then quickly leaning and shooting before their target has any way to fire back or even know what hit em. Most of the time you can use 3rd person to your advantage when you're laying on a hill, in a bush and you can see your target perfectly, knowing that you're target has no chance in hell to see you. It just feels like it does not fit in ArmA nor in this mod, especially when there's pvp going around.

The mouse scroll scanning is just ridiculous, it gives you and free wallhack, and you can use it to see so far a way that you normally would not identify is it a rock, bush or a person.

I usually myself try to play on a server that does not these "aids" on, only one i've found so far is FI1 and one of the EU servers that i can't remember right now.

[Lusmu 0]

Wow, the 1st/3rd person issue seems to get people really going! We'll here's my thoughs.

1st vs 3rd person

3rd person looks better and gives you better awareness of your immediate surroundings, but makes ambushing other players ridiculously easy as you can stay 100% concealed while observing your surroundings with ease. Also, I can't understand while someone would think 1st person movement is clunky but 3rd person is not. THEY'RE THE SAME! Only the camera position is different, and I think most post-processing effects are off (You can turn post-processing off for 1st person from the game settings). Don't like

? Then turn them off, you silly person! Personally, I can live with either one, and I can't see a reason to force one or the other.

Conclusion: Leave it up to server

Crosshairs

Not a dealbreaker for me, but having crosshairs makes fighting zeds somewhat easier, which I feel is not what this mod needs, and I can understand why they would break immersion for some.

Conclusion: Off

Playernames

Spacebar scanning is totally unacceptable. Some form of player identification is desperately needed though, possible either seeing playernames only at a very close distance (and totally off for bandits? maybe not...) or different and distinctive character skins for different players.

Conclusion: Vanilla playernames off, but should replaced with some other form of player identification

[Palora 6]

1st vs 3d person: Since it's a regular/expert option for servers I don't really see the problem, if you don't like the settings you can change servers.

Crisshairs: same as above.

Player names: same as above.

In my opinion the only thing that is offering unfair help, is the Death Notifications, since it will tell someone when his target is dead or not and thus when to keep shooting the body and when to stop wasting ammo. Where we not going for realism, there is no point in the Death Notifications since they don't offer any insight for anyone else.

[qla 0]

1st vs 3d person: Since it's a regular/expert option for servers I don't really see the problem' date=' if you don't like the settings you can change servers.

Crisshairs: same as above.

Player names: same as above.

In my opinion the only thing that is offering unfair help, is the Death Notifications, since it will tell someone when his target is dead or not and thus when to keep shooting the body and when to stop wasting ammo. Where we not going for realism, there is no point in the Death Notifications since they don't offer any insight for anyone else.

[/quote']

The thing is, it's not regular/expert option. Most of the servers are regular, but still do not have crosshairs or 3rd person. The problem is that no one has a way to tell from the server list which server has said settings on and which do not.. Difficulty level tells you next to nothing.