A serious question for the PvP-phobes

[P5ykoOHD 63]

All well and good, but you can't eat a dead player so a comparison to The Road doesn't work.

Very true, altho I was refering to the athmosphere that it implies ... kill to live, kill to survive.

If we could "gut players" it would be really awsome, that way Rocket could add the "Humanity" again ... cause killing someone is one thing, eating that same person is another.

And I think it would bring much more depth to the game.

It would also give more "use" for the antibiotics ... as eating human flesh would make you sick, and make you get hungry faster ...

Edited July 19, 2012 by P5ykoOHD

[Hoogley 13]

I'm still not convinced that anything's broken, but I haven't been playing that long.

I think the issue that some people are trying, and failing, to express clearly is that they wish there was an option to killing other players. At the moment, the paranoia is so thick that people mostly shoot first, bandit or not. They'd like some way to identify PvP thirsty players vs non-PvP players, so they have the option to co-op. The difficulty of gaining anything in this game means that you aren't going to trust anyone you don't know if there's any chance they'll shoot you in the back and take your stuff. So people just kill each other, because it's easier.

The funny thing is, it's psychology that causes a lot of the problem, not game mechanics, or even the bandits. Non-bandits kill each other, BY CHOICE, because they're afraid to trust each other. It's a self-fulfiling prophecy. The bandit players must think it's hysterical. I get the feeling Rocket does, too.

As it stands, the only people most players are going to trust are people they know. Some players - maybe those who don't have friends who play DayZ - are looking for a way around that. Is that a bad thing? Should there be some way that co-op mined people can ID each other so they can play co-op?

And in the end, this might be the meat of the argument from the opposing side. It's not the bandits with the problem, so they don't get why they have to be branded for their style of play, when it's the other side who has the issue.

Am I close to the mark for anyone?

[P5ykoOHD 63]

I'm still not convinced that anything's broken, but I haven't been playing that long.

I think the issue that some people are trying, and failing, to express clearly is that they wish there was an option to killing other players. At the moment, the paranoia is so thick that people mostly shoot first, bandit or not. They'd like some way to identify PvP thirsty players vs non-PvP players, so they have the option to co-op. The difficulty of gaining anything in this game means that you aren't going to trust anyone you don't know if there's any chance they'll shoot you in the back and take your stuff. So people just kill each other, because it's easier.

The funny thing is, it's psychology that causes a lot of the problem, not game mechanics, or even the bandits. Non-bandits kill each other, BY CHOICE, because they're afraid to trust each other. It's a self-fulfiling prophecy. The bandit players must think it's hysterical. I get the feeling Rocket does, too.

As it stands, the only people most players are going to trust are people they know. Some players - maybe those who don't have friends who play DayZ - are looking for a way around that. Is that a bad thing? Should there be some way that co-op mined people can ID each other so they can play co-op?

And in the end, this might be the meat of the argument from the opposing side. It's not the bandits with the problem, so they don't get why they have to be branded for their style of play, when it's the other side who has the issue.

Am I close to the mark for anyone?

Dead on dude ^^

Here, take ma BeanZ :P

[Jack Dant 158]

This is a simple question, what do YOU expect the interaction with other players in DayZ to be?

I'm not a PVP-phobe by any means. But to answer that question, I would like some more interaction between killer and killed, especially after the murder has happened.

Surprise is everything in this game and the one who spots and shoots the other first usually wins. So using directional before shooting is giving up a huge advantage, and once one side is dead, there's no way to talk to them.

There's no room for friendly banter, for a new player to try to join that bandit group who keeps killing him. All the community building is pushed to the forums which few people read.

[zyfer.nyholm@gmail.com 131]

A lot of people seem to be looking for a left4dead style co-op zombie killer, not a sandbox survival horror sim. There's a co op zombie killer mod for arma none the less, maybe they should go play it instead of dayz and stop moaning that they died to a player in a sandbox PvP game.

this +1, i couldnt have said it better myself, this is basically common knowledge that in my head should have ended a discussion as their is no contra to that, the game is what it is, you can either live with it or leave, thats the only two options you have.

@The Whiners

this is a game, its not a life, nor a job, its a game, its a game you play to have fun and try something new, have some new experiences in a game that is very different from another game, you have to take that into concideration that you might have been playing games your whole life whereas you died you basically respawned and didnt lose anything because who would play a game where you lose your stuff upon death ?

thats why you get drawn to dayz, you KNEW this before you started playing, so why do you whine? did you get attatched to your gear?

i know i am, and i know im gonna be sad when i die, and might take 15 minute break, or if there is time, a 30 hour run to get my gear back from my corpse.

Why is someone a douche because he kills you? he wanted to have fun, he knows this game is fun, ofc some troll about it, but why do they do that? you made it able for other people to troll you, and you know you did.

if its annoying that you die all the time, and you are alone and have no one to team up with, well then go look for a dayz clan or start one yourself maybe, its not that hard, and its even more fun to actually play with people while you play dayz.

You can do whatever you want in this game, it has no goddamn police, and you are not police nor are you god so do not tell anyone that they can and cannot do this and that in a sandbox game where everything except hacking, cheating and exploiting and shooting someone is not under those 3 catagories.

So cut the whine, unless someone comes up with green territories on a specific server where there is a smaller chance to get shot, but you are still able to, then its not gonna chance imo.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Zyfer

[Hoogley 13]

this +1, i couldnt have said it better myself, this is basically common knowledge that in my head should have ended a discussion as their is no contra to that, the game is what it is, you can either live with it or leave, thats the only two options you have.

@The Whiners

this is a game, its not a life, nor a job, its a game, its a game you play to have fun and try something new, have some new experiences in a game that is very different from another game, you have to take that into concideration that you might have been playing games your whole life whereas you died you basically respawned and didnt lose anything because who would play a game where you lose your stuff upon death ?

thats why you get drawn to dayz, you KNEW this before you started playing, so why do you whine? did you get attatched to your gear?

i know i am, and i know im gonna be sad when i die, and might take 15 minute break, or if there is time, a 30 hour run to get my gear back from my corpse.

Why is someone a douche because he kills you? he wanted to have fun, he knows this game is fun, ofc some troll about it, but why do they do that? you made it able for other people to troll you, and you know you did.

if its annoying that you die all the time, and you are alone and have no one to team up with, well then go look for a dayz clan or start one yourself maybe, its not that hard, and its even more fun to actually play with people while you play dayz.

You can do whatever you want in this game, it has no goddamn police, and you are not police nor are you god so do not tell anyone that they can and cannot do this and that in a sandbox game where everything except hacking, cheating and exploiting and shooting someone is not under those 3 catagories.

So cut the whine, unless someone comes up with green territories on a specific server where there is a smaller chance to get shot, but you are still able to, then its not gonna chance imo.

Yeah, I think this is a valid point. The unforgiving nature of this game is definitely what makes it interesting. PvP is, if not THE heart of it, at least one of the chambers.

[zyfer.nyholm@gmail.com 131]

Yeah, I think this is a valid point. The unforgiving nature of this game is definitely what makes it interesting. PvP is, if not THE heart of it, at least one of the chambers.

indeed, and i do pvp myself, and look for it, and long for it, even with my so called epic gear, gps and ghillie and stuff, if i will kill a noob or not i dont know but at this point i wanna kill just anything lol

[hunterkilla 67]

This game needs PvP and would be dull without it. We want bandits who will either stalk and kill you or even demand loot or open fire. Do we need people sitting on a hill in electro taking potshots at flashlight wielding newborns? Probably not but its that players choice.

Alot of people say "OH find someone away from the game and team up in game, join a clan or group etc." Well I dont want to do that, I like to logon at different times of the day and I love it when you come across a stranger and end up teaming up for abit. The risk vs reward adds to the adreneline and I remember in the bandit skin days with side chat meeting lots of people, some would be a casual "hi" and walk on and some we would go looting for a few hours. Nowadays its just become one total fear fest and everyone just shoots on sight in general. Should the bandit skin come back, well in one way I say yes, at the moment you can kill players without a downside ie sniping or camping and each new person you come across doesnt know if you are a cold blooded killer or not. But as others would say, thats what adds to the tension.

I almost think it needs a bandit skin but only if you do a kill in a certain way, ie is your target 500 m away and carrying a flashlight, if so and you shoot them, well that makes you a bandit. Are they facing away from you when you shoot.... makes you a bandit.... same room facing each other and both shoot .... thats life.

I also think having it so the zombie spawn ratio is multiplied by the amount of people in one location, 3 bandits working together. 3x zombies plus any other players, so 5 people in a small area in cherno means 5 x zombies meaning you might not shoot that player who is walking past you and only shoot them if they become a clear and present danger. I guess I want to see people being made to think before pressing the button, at the moment there is no reason NOT to shoot on sight.

ALthough today I did come across a friendly who was just that, he told me about a gun nearby, stuck with me and we ended up in a gun battle with someone else and now im crawling with a broken leg. That made the game so much more enjoyable than just everyone for themselves

[Hoogley 13]

The bandit skin was not really a "good idea" ... it took away the "immersion" factor.

As when you came across a player with the bandit skin, you knew that he was a clear threat, and therefor engaged him, therefor siding Survivors and Bandits in 2 clear and seperate sides.

As now with no bandit skin, you never know if the other player is a bandit or not, it builds stress, tension ... not knowing if you should engage, and become a bandit yourself or leave him and risk getting killed cause he was a bandit.

It's much better now.

EDIT:

I am a bandit myself ... I roleplay as the "bad guy", cause it is more fun.

But I don't engage unarmed players ...

I'm sorry, man, but I don't agree. Honestly, answer this; do you really question whether you should or shouldn't engage someone you encounter? I bet you don't. You even said that you play as a bandit. And even if you don't play as a bandit, nobody knows if the other person is a bandit, so most people just kill the other person, not struggle with the moral quandary of whether or not they should take this person's life (allegory: mess with their fun).

Killing the other person is the safe answer. I sure as hell do it, and without hesitation. I wouldn't say I'm a bandit, because I don't go out of my way to kill other players, but if they get in my space, I'm going to fuck them up. Period. Me or them. THAT's survival. That is fucking awesome. That's where the tension comes from. It's not from the question, "is this guy a bandit?", it's from the question, "how do I kill this guy and walk out alive?". That's what's going to make me keep playing this game.

If anything, I'd like to see more melee and less long range sniping. I want to ruin people's day up close and personal.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Hoogley

[DaveAzoicer (DayZ) 135]

It's basicly the same as every other thread where bandits whine about not wanting to be changed, so they dont have all the cons.

[heretic (DayZ) 76]

How about using the Bluefor/Opfor features of ARMA2 to simplify things? At respawn, you choose survivor or bandit with a corresponding skin. It would give a much clearer indication of when PvP is more appropriate. It's still open to infiltration from either side. Meta gaming would still be possible. Nothing is perfect. Would it be any worse than the current situation?

It seems a little crazy that such a major part of ARMA2 has been ignored in DayZ. Sure, it makes it a team deathmatch rather than a FFA deathmatch, but it could help.

[hawc 63]

How about using the Bluefor/Opfor features of ARMA2 to simplify things? At respawn, you choose survivor or bandit with a corresponding skin. It would give a much clearer indication of when PvP is more appropriate. It's still open to infiltration from either side. Meta gaming would still be possible. Nothing is perfect. Would it be any worse than the current situation?

It seems a little crazy that such a major part of ARMA2 has been ignored in DayZ. Sure, it makes it a team deathmatch rather than a FFA deathmatch, but it could help.

what if i change my mind several hours in? what if i change my mind daily? what if i don't want to be either bandit or survivor?

Edited July 19, 2012 by Hawc

[Jeff B 0]

PVP should be easily done as it is,

however at the moment, there is absolutely no reason NOT to shoot another player.

I will never trust anyone now, as every single person ive encountered has been hostile.

Its not intense when you know theres no penalties for murdering people.

[heretic (DayZ) 76]

what if i change my mind several hours in? what if i change my mind daily? what if i don't want to be either bandit or survivor?

There's also a neutral and civilian faction in ARMA2. Maybe movement between them could be based on humanity if/when it is reintroduced?

[Talon2000uk 30]

The bandit skin was not really a "good idea" ... it took away the "immersion" factor.

As when you came across a player with the bandit skin, you knew that he was a clear threat, and therefor engaged him, therefor siding Survivors and Bandits in 2 clear and seperate sides.

As now with no bandit skin, you never know if the other player is a bandit or not, it builds stress, tension ... not knowing if you should engage, and become a bandit yourself or leave him and risk getting killed cause he was a bandit.

It's much better now.

EDIT:

I am a bandit myself ... I roleplay as the "bad guy", cause it is more fun.

But I don't engage unarmed players ...

Sorry I can't agree, it doesn't build tension it builds paranoia, now everyone shoots on sight, there is less tension not more, its all luck as to whether you see them before they see you. It's almost impossible to team up now except with RL friends, I pity the solo players of this game now.

I'm lucky I have 8 real life friends that I play with and we are normaly together in a group of 4 and above so we come out the victors in most situations but for the player without a group, well they have to fire first or they will never get any where and of cause its a downwards spiral from there.

There needs to be a downside to being a murderer, I don't have any solutions I'm afraid, I wish I did, but without it this game is slowly turning into Team death match with zombies and it should be so much more than than.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Talon2000uk

[tarquinbb 28]

imo the majority of whiners are playing with the wrong mindset.

you're not advised to barge into a town, blasting away the zombies with your lee enfield then loot the entire place. you're advised to approach from a hill or forest and survey the area for a while, looking for other players.

imagine yourself in a hypothetical real life zombie apocalypse, if you come accross a total stranger with a gun - you're certainly not going to trust him. he probably won't have a massive sign around his neck reading "i'm a murderer!". if you see he's in a group or well equipped then you'd be wise to hide and avoid confrontation (unless you're desperately low on supplies perhaps). if you're cornered then you might be forced to shoot him, in fear for your own life.

yes, it is paranoia... but that is what makes dayz so unique and thrilling... the times i've been alone and spotted a group of 2-3 guys, followed them and waited for an opportunity to strike, then deciding that it wasn't worth it and turning away. those guys totally unaware that they were possibly moments away from a shower of bullets.

i totally understand the pvp frustration, but a great piece of advice is to just explore the northern airfields until you find a base camp of a massive group (they often farm those airfields/barracks and therefore need tents to stash nearby) - then every time you die just head there and steal their stuff. amazing equipment at your fingertips - after about 30 minutes of navigating through wilderness.

Edited July 19, 2012 by tarquinbb

[Refried 14]

how long are people going to continue pushing the myth that bandit skins worked?

it created an artificial faction system and gave survivors an excuse to shoot on sight (the very thing they whine about constantly)

[evulclown@gmail.com 191]

There's a misconception here that everyone has an equal chance.

Gee, the weak are being taken out by the strong? That's never happened in the history of mankind on a near daily basis has it? From tribes, to countries, to prisons, to races... When no overriding "law" is stopping you, the weak get pushed aside by the stronger and loose their shit. Not just from the beginning of mankind to this very day does it happen, but in the animal kingdom too...

But it would be different when the zombie apocalypse comes!

Only reason more people are dying is because everyone logs out -- you can't rob a guy that logs out, so why bother. When I'm in elektro with no weapon and I spot a guy, I say over direct chat that I've seen him and for him to "freeze". I'm yet to have someone not log out instantly allowing me to loot everything without a care in the world.

Edited July 19, 2012 by itputsthelotion

[sandorski 17]

how long are people going to continue pushing the myth that bandit skins worked?

it created an artificial faction system and gave survivors an excuse to shoot on sight (the very thing they whine about constantly)

They shot on sight because it was a clear danger not to. Now no one knows, so they shoot everyone on sight.

[tarquinbb 28]

if you get murdered it's because you were careless, unlucky or dumb.

punishment for murdering careless, unlucky or dumb players will turn the game into a carebear newbie-fest.

the solution to bandits is to play smart and/or play in a smart group. i.e. don't be dumb, don't be careless and curse the lord for your ill luck.

Edited July 19, 2012 by tarquinbb

[Talon2000uk 30]

Thing is Tarq, thats not true, everyone shoots everyone. Not just the careless, unlucky or dumb. So what now?

[evulclown@gmail.com 191]

See, even the bot agrees -- stop whining about PvP

Thing is Tarq, thats not true, everyone shoots everyone. Not just the careless, unlucky or dumb. So what now?

If you got shot, you were careless. If you weren't careless, you wouldn't have gotten shot. You made a mistake, learn that fast. You've got a chip on your shoulder if you don't think you fucked up somehow. Maybe this is why you're on the forum whining? "I shouldn't have died I'm awesome" -- You fucked up.

Every time I've died to a player it's been through my mistakes. I got lazy and decided to take a shortcut across a potential sniper zone. I didn't thoroughly scope out a location before entering. I got lulled into a false sense of security and let my guard down in a "safer" location. etc etc. They're all my fault.

I don't kill everyone I see for the record, and I haven't been shot at by everyone I've seen. I've straight out avoided people or talked to them in game -- Try it some time, get a mic and talk in game. If they're not too friendly over mic then you avoid them. Don't go near anyone that doesn't have a mic

Edited July 19, 2012 by itputsthelotion

[Refried 14]

They shot on sight because it was a clear danger not to. Now no one knows, so they shoot everyone on sight.

no, they shot on sight because a magical combination of clothing told them it was okay (which is utter unrealistic horseshit)

it SHOULD be risky to approach unknown players

it SHOULD NOT be known from a glance whether a player is "good" or not; if you want to find out, then go ask him and good luck

this is without even getting into the fact that many non-bandits ended up with bandit skins for various reasons

Edited July 19, 2012 by Refried

[Andrej Dudev 50]

Sandbox survival horror game does not mean "shoot everyone on sight for the lulz-sport".

Killing other people is ok but not for this.

[evulclown@gmail.com 191]

Sandbox survival horror game does not mean "shoot everyone on sight for the lulz-sport".

Killing other people is ok but not for this.

Killing other people is only acceptable if people use my reasoning -- Also so long as they don't kill me! You have to play by my stringent set of moral guide lines and ethics in this multiplayer PvP survival horror sandbox game GUYZZZZ! :@