A serious question for the PvP-phobes

[TheMachine 803]

I'm going to try my best not to sound like I'm trolling, since this is entirely serious and not meant to provoke a reaction.

We see lots of threads each day such as this one:-

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/35114-post-apacolyptic-greifing-simulator-for-d-bags/

They're all in a similar vein and it's basically always the same basic story.

Let me tell it for you is succinctly as possible, it has 3 parts.

1. I was playing dayz and I encountered another player.

2. This other player killed me.

3. I didn't like being killed.

That's it.

That's all there is to the story. Every. Single. Time.

There's usually quite a lot of oohing and aahing about it too, some of the stories are in fact, very well told and quite compelling.

And I don't think there's another game out there that inspires that kind of genuine reaction in players.

To me anyway, that's what makes DayZ, Dayz, and it's a heck of a lot more interesting than other 'safe' games.

Anyway my question to these people is basically, what do you expect?

How do you expect other players to react to you in their presence?

Do you expect to call out friendly, then hold hands and kill zombies together without ANY risk of being killed?

Because that could happen.

But you know, there can't be one without the other.

DayZ is all or nothing, it's either completely safe all the time (and a lot of these people won't be happy until that's the case), or it's not safe any of the time.

I know which one is a more compelling gaming experience for me, and I hope it stays that way.

[evulclown@gmail.com 191]

A lot of people seem to be looking for a left4dead style co-op zombie killer, not a sandbox survival horror sim. There's a co op zombie killer mod for arma none the less, maybe they should go play it instead of dayz and stop moaning that they died to a player in a sandbox PvP game.

Edited July 19, 2012 by itputsthelotion

[Crabberson 2]

It is kind of annoying when people shoot on sight but that is the game. One of my friends has been trying to get good items so he can "PK noobs in cherno," but he keeps getting killed whenever he goes to an airstrip. Its funny cause he rages because of those "PKing faggots that killed me" and his whole mindset is to kill everyone.

[CptSpank 19]

I love how open the PvP is. It just adds to the risk. Perfect example; I had my legs broken outside Balota airfield only to crawl all the way pitch black to a petrol station & get attacked by Zeds. Opening fire I see another player from the muzzle flash. I had a choice to shoot but thought what was the point, he's mobile & I'm stuck in the middle of nowhere. He offered to head to Cherno to get morphine for me (I never asked he just offered straight up).

I noticed he only had a flashlight so in good will, I offered him my AK since it was of more use to him than me now. He then had the choice to gank me, but no. Instead he ducks off & 20 mins later is back with the morphine. We ended up teaming for a bit and I let him keep the AK as thanks. He later got ganked by Zeds whilst we tried to meet up with a friend of his back at Cherno hospital. Was a fun run too.

As much as I hate being ganked by other players it's those rare moments that make the game all the more worthwhile.

[ShinySnack 10]

People are more often afraid then morally bankrupt. For example, if I see someone first and ask them over direct if they're friendly or not, 70% of the time they reply with friendly. Of course they would. They know I have the advantage and not responding would get them shot. This also works both ways. If someone asks me if I'm friendly, I'm not going to attempt to run away and get a better position without replying. That would probably get me shot. So I reply friendly.

[Survivor-Kyle 148]

I think you have a lot of people who get frustrated because, while the game is easy once you figure out the mechanics, if you remember back to when you were new, it was fucking difficult. You have no weapon, you know where nothing is, and you die every 5 mins.

That player then goes into a city, finds another player, who claims to be 'Friendly'. The new player, who still has nothing (or possibly some shit-tier rubber-band-gun) and they get shot in the face anyway. For no reason. That player, will come here and bitch about it, and I'd say they are somewhat justified.

Hell I had a bitch/moan thread Last Night, because I was being raped by game bugs and someone shot me in the face after we chatted briefly in the Electro church. I clearly had nothing of use to him, and I had the drop on him and still chose not to kill him. He shot me anyway. I was so pissed off because I'd finally found a server that I could play on, and boom, just like that I was toast. The night before that I posted a thread complimenting a player for killing me so skillfully.

We forum denizens just see every one of those bitching posts and tend to skim over the non-bitching posts, so it seems more rampant than it really is.

[SLN445 3]

The shoot first mentality is fairly fustrating to those whom are new.

The whole Bandit thing is fun and all but since theres so little ingame mechanics for co-operation, the game has become nothing more then a Deathmatch featuring zombies. There is a strong need for something to be added so the shoot-first setup is only used by those who come here for that purpose and not by your average survivor.

[Survivor-Kyle 148]

The shoot first mentality is fairly fustrating to those whom are new.

The whole Bandit thing is fun and all but since theres so little ingame mechanics for co-operation, the game has become nothing more then a Deathmatch featuring zombies. There is a strong need for something to be added so the shoot-first setup is only used by those who come here for that purpose and not by your average survivor.

Not really, people just need stuff to do. Rocket should add a massive zombie hoard on some island and start a rumor that a howitzer spawnes there. Give people something to do, and they won't grief noobs.

[skyter 299]

You obviously didn't read the thread.

And you are provoking a response by citing my thread.

People start murdering out of boredom with no draw back simply because they can with nary a downside.

I'm not some scrub fresh off the beach but people treat this game like the only goal is to kill people.

It's counterproductive to everyone, because you get to a point where there is no player interaction beyond 3rd party voice apps or being shot on sight if you're not talking to people over a third party app.

It was a persistent zombie survival horror game with a place for banditry when banditry caused a skin morph.

But now it's gaming without any sense of realism or honor despite people claiming indiscriminate killings are realistic. What fucking planet do you live on, because if that was the case the human race would have become extinct long ago.

"oh look, another person!" *kills* = the entirety of dayz in a nutshell right now unless you're part of a group then it becomes:

"oh look, another person who isn't in our group!" *kills*

It's a death match mod with zombies as an after thought at this point. A mugging simulator. A paradise for trolls and griefers that gets worse and worse with increasing player numbers.

Bandits have the right to exist, but when every single person is a bandit because they have to be, or they get shot; it's not being a bandit anymore, it's simply playing the game while forcing people down a character path they didn't want to play.

Where is the freedom or sandbox in that?

If you want another shooter with zombies, go play another shooter with zombies. This was supposed to be deeper.

Edited July 19, 2012 by skyter

[WhiteReaper (DayZ) 0]

Not really, people just need stuff to do. Rocket should add a massive zombie hoard on some island and start a rumor that a howitzer spawnes there. Give people something to do, and they won't grief noobs.

I'm all for bombarding Cherno with arty. Amirite?

Edit: First Post!

Edited July 19, 2012 by WhiteReaper

[SLN445 3]

Not really, people just need stuff to do. Rocket should add a massive zombie hoard on some island and start a rumor that a howitzer spawnes there. Give people something to do, and they won't grief noobs.

Boredom is another thing that causes it not the only reason.

Anyways co-op gameplay would help elevate boredom aswell as bring people together more.

Incredibly high zombie invested compounds/islands with the potential of high end weaponry would be a start :D

[Zexis 127]

Bandits are the players we love to hate.

We hate them for the hours of work they take away.

But we need them for the excitement they bring. Zombies never get my adrenaline going. But when one of my buds yells out "Player!", I tense up, feel a rush, and become genuinely excited (or terrified).

[Survivor-Kyle 148]

I'm all for bombarding Cherno with arty. Amirite?

Edit: First Post!

The sick part is that he never actually lets it spawn. Just adds it to the table as "ultra rare".

[beavaroo 90]

They're all in a similar vein and it's basically always the same basic story.

Let me tell it for you is succinctly as possible, it has 3 parts.

1. I was playing dayz and I encountered another player.

2. This other player killed me.

3. I didn't like being killed.

...How do you expect other players to react to you in their presence?

My being killed by another player as outlined above is perfectly acceptable to me.

However, my inadvertently straying into the kill zone of some poopsock sniper with one hand on his mouse and the other on his knob, does not constitute an “encounter”, nor does being 600m away with my back to them, legitimately constitute my being in anyone’s “presence”. Under these circumstances, I refuse to excuse the all too common reaction of their immediately hitting the LMB, and am righteously pissed off when it inevitably happens.

I just don’t make threads about it.

[teih 36]

This is NOT about removing pvp

This is NOT about dumbing down the game

This is NOT about shielding ourselves from pvp encounters

This is about how pointless pvp is at the moment. Seriously OP, listen to what I am about to say and you might realise something here.

PvP is EXTREMELY important for DayZ to be what it is, and everyone with a clue knows this and appreciates what it brings to the experience.

However, currently the world of DayZ is in black and white. It has no shades of gray, with very few exeptions. PvP is mindless fun.

Why is this a problem you may ask? It's a problem for the ones who wants DayZ to be something more, where player interaction is an OPTION.

We want survivors and bandits back again. Survivors are long gone, and bandits are overshadowed almost completely by the playerbase who replaced them: the mindless murderers.

I could write an entire page about why players are becoming what they are now, but that's not the point here. The point is that currently you are FORCED to be a murderer just to survive. Social interaction is likely to be suicide 100% of the time, and noone in their right mind would ever take the risk. It's simply not worth communicating with anyone, ever.

How is this a good thing? Really, please tell me.

A lot of you have pointed out how this adds to the experience, not knowing who you can trust, having to "read their minds" by talking to them and figuring out what their intentions are.

Despite doing so, the risk is still way too high for anyone with half a brain to take it. I am a rather good actor by nature, so good bloody luck to ya trying to figure me out before it's too late.

Again, we do not want pvp to be gone, dumbed down, or turned into a "side thing" in DayZ. We simply want the option to team up with fellow survivors in the war against the infected and lone bandits/gangs.

In all honesty I think this would only add to the pvp, and make it way more interesting than it is at its current state.

In short, we want some roleplaying put into this simulator.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Teih

[wolffe 52]

this game sucks, and will likely plataeu off and lose players and new purchases quickly after the initial hype is overwith. I personally know two people who bought it thinking it would be similar in polish & controls to left for dead or some other FPS. Arma 2's buggyness, retardedly gay controls & shit graphics caused them to pretty much uninstall after a day or two.

So it's not really Rockets fault for the alpha mod sucking balls, it's Arma2's. If we had a better just-as-malleable game engine to work with that supported many players and extremely detailed city environments complete with interiors, this game idea could be applied excellently. But as rocket said arma2 just wont' support DayZ in the long run. I can't see how he thinks Arma3 will.

I remember we all suffered through the bugs and kinks of Arma1 engine. When Arma 2 was announced everyone jumped for joy thinking the engine and performance issues would be sovled. Lots were but newer and older bugs still remained. Now everyones saying how bug-free Arma 3 will be- I'm betting based on past experience that Arma 3 will look slightly better but be pretty much the same as ARma2.

[Virfortis 111]

Again, we do not want pvp to be gone, dumbed down, or turned into a "side thing" in DayZ. We simply want the option to team up with fellow survivors, in the war against the infected and lone bandits/gangs.

In all honesty I think this would only add to the pvp, and make it way more interesting than it is at its current state.

In short, we want some roleplaying put into this simulator.

In short, this.

I likewise have a question for the OP, without trying to troll: Why is PvP such a turn on for you people? Why do you then turn around and say DayZ is somehow a brand new concept? Where does all this excitement and adrenaline come from? Why do you get jollies off from picking on people?

People say it adds to the experience, not knowing who to trust, but I ALREADY KNOW from the moment I step onto the beach that every player out there, that has the capacity to do so, will kill me without any form of thinking. I mean really, look at Call of Duty, is there any tension and addition of experience because you might run into someone in a free for all map that won't shoot you? Do you then look at someone and decide if they're worth the bullet? No, absolutely not, you fire on those hoofing pixels so you get points and be the winner. DayZ suffers from the same, exact problem. Look at Face of Mankind, has a lot of the DayZ concept in it, but the only interaction is inner-faction, outside of that is just shooting people. There's no depth, no feel, and certainly no uncertainty, you kill people because they will kill you, plain and simple.

Us, the RPers, you know...people that make the wikis, the storylines? The trekkies, the comic nerd, the movie buff, etc. You get my point. We were told DayZ was something new, that there was the concept of actual, legitimate storyline that could be created, that we could craft something all on our own.

But nope, it's not. There's no social interaction at all, just shooting. Peaceful groups are intentionally targetted, not just held indifferently as no threat and relatively ignored. You never see shooting in the saloon as a norm for a very good reason, yet that isn't even the norm in DayZ, that's the cardinal rule.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Virfortis

[SpecFour 12]

I think:

1. Why does there need to be another thread like this? and

B. You misstate the position. Most of us bitching aren't complaining JUST that we got killed, as shown by prior replies. My latest annoying-as-fuck death is from a sniper I never saw, who doesn't need my dang flashlight. It's just killing for the sake of killing. That makes little sense. Yeah, I'm in a field with fuck-all cover for 75m, but that was the way out of town. My presence doesn't require that you go to Def Con Two and immediately kill me. I have a FLASHLIGHT in my hands, and it is daytime. It will take me 10 seconds to switch to that silenced M16A2 with a latte attachment and can opener that you think I am hiding in my pack.

Some of my favorite vids on YouTube are from Acebane. S6 makes no bones about killing other players they encounter, and that's how it works. They don't camp out and snipe, however. His latest vid is him and a buddy taking on four other players. That's cool. Numbers against them, but they have surprise. I got no problem with that.

Every time I encounter another player and he has a weapon and I have a weapon, and nobody gets shot, THAT is a "win" for Humanity. And if he blows me away for a Makarov mag, I understand. I like it when we can work things out without Death, but sometimes Death happens. C'est la vie.

But if you use your NVG to put a round through the back of my head at 400m, there is something wrong with you. My instinct is that person should be doing homework, or his parents should have sent him off to Space Camp or something. Or they should make him play outside, or even just fucking talk to him twice a day. Something other than just letting him kill people on the Internet.

Edited July 19, 2012 by SpecFour

[Ejaculacid 19]

Oh sweet tears ;)

[sandorski 17]

DayZ is Marketed as a Post Z Apocalypse Survival game. Not a TDM/DM game with Z obstacles. Currently coming across another Survivor goes like this: "Wanna Team u"..[bang] [bang] [bang]: You are dead

[Virfortis 111]

DayZ is Marketed as a Post Z Apocalypse Survival game. Not a TDM/DM game with Z obstacles. Currently coming across another Survivor goes like this: "Wanna Team u"..[bang] [bang] [bang]: You are dead

Which, and I think we all agree, would be okay if DayZ were marketed as a Post Apocalyptic Persistent PvP Arena, but it isn't.

[BananaMartyr 1]

My adivce? Find people who don't kill you, stick with them. That is how life works. In a survival scenario you would want to stick with a group of people and avoid outsiders unless they prove innocent. The more people you have on your side, the less likely people want to fight you and would rather try to join you to form a squad. So make friends with the first person or two you meet, use the connection to get gear and show others mercy when you see fit, asking them to join you.

Yes the murdering is a bit over the top in this game but that's partially the fault of pve and ammo spawns being so easy. When you have a backpack full of supplies, what else is there to do? Kill some random zombies? Why? To waste ammo? It's not like they won't respawn to ease the zombie danger from the land.

Killing a player means that for however long it takes for him to get his supplies back, he's no longer a threat to you or anybody else. Really that does more for people than killing zombies does.

Finding a gun and a clip of ammo should be like Christmas, not the first 5 minutes of any new character.

Edited July 19, 2012 by BananaMartyr

[TheMachine 803]

No one's answering my question, they're just reiterating the same old 'I got killed by someone I never even seen, he's probably a kid with a bone to pick and that's not PvP at all since I never had a chance' line.

All these stories come down to the same 3 parts I outlined in the OP.

1. Meet another player.

2. Get killed by another player.

3. Don't like getting killed by another player.

You have the same chance to get a sniper rifle and survive in the woods and kill people if you so choose as that guy did.

You also have the power to evade players like that.

DayZ is popular precisely because it's NOT left4dead or some other boring zombie killing simulator, of which there are thousands.

Without the constant risk of death at any time what is it?

A game with clunky controls on an old engine that has very poor cheat detection, sub par netcode and poorly optimised graphics.

However this is NOT a 'what is acceptable PvP' or 'what's dayz about' thread.

This is a simple question, what do YOU expect the interaction with other players in DayZ to be?

Do you believe it's unacceptable for another player to kill you in a given situation, and if so, how do you propose that the other player is stopped from doing so?

I'd really like if these questions could be addressed directly.

Edited July 19, 2012 by TheMachine

[SLN445 3]

This is a simple question, what do YOU expect the interaction with other players in DayZ to be?

Do you believe it's unacceptable for another player to kill you in a given situation, and if so, how do you propose that the other player is stopped from doing so?

I expect to meet other survivors from the hell that has occured to the land, assist each other in achieving our goals of survival and rebuilding civilisation (in a RP sense of course) and defend our group from Bandits and outlaws.

I believe it is unacceptable to be shot for no reason but accept if we are pointing guns at each other and screaming that it may occur.

I would propose mechanics implemented that give players (strangers in this case) more reason not to shoot everyone they see, primarly in more Co-op play and things to do Other then shoot people.

Edited July 19, 2012 by SLN445

[teih 36]

No one's answering my question, they're just reiterating the same old 'I got killed by someone I never even seen, he's probably a kid with a bone to pick and that's not PvP at all since I never had a chance' line.

Ok now I am convinced you're a troll. You can't possibly be this ignorant.