Get rid of those .50 cal

[-Cdn-Chard 96]

Sure it would be nice to have something that could stop a vehicle with a couple of well placed shots, but 97.346% of the time these rifles are used for dealing out instant one-shot death in PVP, no I wouldn't even call it PVP, I'd call it SUV (Sniping Unsuspecting Victims). It doesn't take much skill to sit on a hill half a mile away with one of these monsters, zero in the range, and one-shot anybody that passes by.

If it was up to me, I'd pull them from the game. Frankly I'd prefer to see the one-shot kills coming as the result of skilled stalking, marksmanship and well placed headshots. If a vehicle is driving away, then that's the way it goes. I'd only reintroduce them once the whole issue of duping has been resolved. There really shouldn't be more than 1 of these per server floating around, and they should spawn only at unique loot spots like crashed heli's. If we're going for realism, the idea of having anti-material/anti-equipment weapons proliferating (duping) across Chernarus is crazy. It seems like every other bandit had a ghillie suit and one of these anti-material cannons.

Practically speaking however, until the DC'ing is resolved, having a weapon that puts down a player immediately does have it's advantages. You stop them in their tracks, no ghosting (disconnect-reposition-reconnect-kill). That being said, three fast, well placed shots from any of the other sniper rifles into the torso of a player should put them down no problem. Done quickly enough, they won't have time to DC...

Most of the high end military weapons still call for fairly close quarter combat, one in which the civilian weapons still have a fighting chance of opposing. A player with a CZ550 is just a capable of sniping as one with a Dragonov or M14. A Winchester can still take out a Mk48. All the others really just manage to put more bullets near the target, and automatic fire, unless you're prone, is terribly inaccurate. The anti-material sniper weapons are a breed apart. Add a rangefinder and they make the game way too easy. Along the same vein, there are quite a few hybrid OPFOR weapons that would fit very well into the "Eastern Bloc" setting of DayZ. Weapons should be balanced and varied. The Anti-Material Sniper Rifles are neither.

As far as the developers devoting time to removing them, they only need to change the spawn rates for these guns to zero and they won't appear. It might be possible to replace existing cannons with DMR's or something. The first solution is dead easy, the second shouldn't be a big deal...

Edited July 18, 2012 by -Cdn-Chard

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

That or they could make AT4 more common (with hillarious results)

[thorgold 91]

Those are anti material rifles, from a realistic standpoint, they aren't even designed to be used against peoples. Just give us more reasonable precision rifles instead of those handheld "cannons".

Actually, they're designed for anti-materiel only at short distance. .50 caliber rifles are regularly used as long-range sniper rifles where conventional 7.62 or .308 caliber rifles lack the power or speed. (See Carlos Hathcock, who strapped a scope to a .50 Browning M2 and had the longest confirmed kill in history from 1968 until 2002, when it was broken by a Candian team with Tac-50s).

Heck, the reason that Craig Harrison's 2.4km kills (longest confirmed on record) are so impressive are because he used such a small caliber round, getting kills at nearly twice the effective range of the rifle and ammunition type, compared to the 2,000m effective range of a .50 cal rifle.

The .50s are fine as is. They're not rare, they're not OP, in fact I'll pass up an M104 or AS50 if I can get my hands on an M24 just because they're overkill.

Edited July 18, 2012 by thorgold

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

It doesn't take much skill to sit on a hill half a mile away with one of these monsters, zero in the range, and one-shot anybody that passes by.

The "it doesn't take skill" argument. The ultimate slippery slope. It doesn't take skill to go prone in a building and aim at the door with any weapon so lets remove them all from the game I guess? And also disallow going prone. Everyone has to stand now.

In reality it has nothing to do with how much "skill" is involved and everything to do with the range. You're not mad because they aren't using skills, you're mad because you can't shoot back.

Well, that's why sniper rifles were invented. And the trade-off is in the fact that you will be emasculated in closer-quarters combat.

Weapons should be balanced and varied. The Anti-Material Sniper Rifles are neither.

How can any single rifle be "varied"? That makes no sense. Unless you're talking about all of the sniper rifles? I think the M107 is the only other one you could categorize as "AS" and those two guns are actually quite varied. They handle differently and have different optics. They're as different as the M249/M240 or the M16 and M4A1. Again I don't see how "not being different enough from similar guns" would be a reason to remove it from the game? How is that sensible?

As for balanced, if you don't think the long-ranged rifles are balanced you've honestly never used one. They are good for one application only. Once you are in medium/short range combat the amount of time required to acquire a sight picture and the fact that going prone nearly always obscures nearby targets with tall grass or intervening obstacles, you are a sitting duck for anyone with a decent medium-ranged rifle. Especially because you have a giant cannon sticking out of your back screaming "Hey! Over here! Shoot me!"

And close quarters? Like inside buildings?

They're practically useless.

They also aggro entire towns' worth of zombies, so using them anywhere near a settlement is right out.

So even though to be honest rocket doesn't give a flying fuck about "balanced," these rifles do have pro's and con's.

Edited July 18, 2012 by ZedsDeadBaby

[jetao2008@hotmail.com 175]

I also think they shouldn't be in the game. But not just the .50, a lot of other military guns too.

The game should have more civilian weapons, unless in Russia finding Machine Guns in the airport is a common thing.

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

I also think they shouldn't be in the game. But not just the .50, a lot of other military guns too.

The game should have more civilian weapons, unless in Russia finding Machine Guns in the airport is a common thing.

Just kidding.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Lady Kyrah

[Xlar 1]

Just replace the .50 with some m24 and shit. It wont affect the game itself, but will reduce the "sniper elites" at NWAF.

M24 is already in the game is it not?

[jetao2008@hotmail.com 175]

Just kidding.

LOLOLOL.

I remember when i played this mission, damn you Call of Duty.

[TheBigShide 5]

How is having this rifle in the game not realistic? I mean I could understand your logic if there were no air fields, military outposts, or downed chopper locations.... but your "this isn't realistic" approach to not having this gun be available isn't sound.

[jetao2008@hotmail.com 175]

How is having this rifle in the game not realistic? I mean I could understand your logic if there were no air fields, military outposts, or downed chopper locations.... but your "this isn't realistic" approach to not having this gun be available isn't sound.

My country ain't that big but i can assure you there are no Machine Guns and .50 guns on it. It's not a matter about being realistic, please forget this word, there is no such thing as a zombie in the first place.

I'm just saying it doesn't fit the situation. but that's just my opinion, it's OK if you disagree.

The map is filled with small towns and villages, so i think it would be more plausible to find civilian guns instead of military weapons all over the map.

Not to mention the amount of US weapons, which also doesn't fit quite well, but regarding this i couldn't care less.

[heretic (DayZ) 76]

How is having this rifle in the game not realistic? I mean I could understand your logic if there were no air fields, military outposts, or downed chopper locations.... but your "this isn't realistic" approach to not having this gun be available isn't sound.

You're absolutely right! There should be hundreds of them in Chernarus. Every player should have one! I think an average of at least 1 .50 cal sniper rifle per square km is way too few for DayZ! :D

Or perhaps not. :P

[Aftershok 14]

They shouldn't necessarily remove the AS50 or M107, they are used in real life but obviously aren't fired 'from the hip' so to speak.

Rifles such as the L115 should be added as the ultra-long range weapons, imo there should be a decrease in long-range weaponry and an increase in close-mid range weapons to encourage CQC and discourage camping, i.e. remove a sniper or two and add a few SMGs.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

I also think they shouldn't be in the game. But not just the .50, a lot of other military guns too.

The game should have more civilian weapons, unless in Russia finding Machine Guns in the airport is a common thing.

Have you looked around at how many humvees are scattered around the map?

Or how all major cities have temporarily military hospitals?

The military was everywhere, scattered around Chernarus trying to get the infection under control.

Evidence of this exists in the body piles that you can find near cities and especially near military locations like the Chernogorsk military hospital and Green Mountain military base.

They were probably at the airports taking shipments of supplies and medicine. Using fire stations as temporary shelters. And guarding grocery stores from being looted.

As the soldiers became infected, they dropped their weapons and equipment. Chopper pilots became infected and crashed their helicopters. (Notice how some have medical crates near them?)

Not difficult to figure out why there are many weapons scattered around Chernarus in unusual places.

Edited July 18, 2012 by ZedsDeadBaby

[jetao2008@hotmail.com 175]

Have you looked around at how many humvees are scattered around the map?

Or how all major cities have temporarily military hospitals?

The military was everywhere, scattered around Chernarus trying to get the infection under control.

Evidence of this exists in the body piles that you can find near cities and especially near military locations like the Chernogorsk military hospital and Green Mountain military base.

They were probably at the airports taking shipments of supplies and medicine.

As the soldiers became infected, they dropped their weapons. Chopper pilots became infected and crashed their helicopters. (Notice how some have medical crates near them?)

Not difficult to figure out why there are many weapons scattered around Chernarus in unusual places.

Dude from your posts around the forum i can see that you're always willing to spend 5 hours defending your point.

I have one opinion, you have a different one, case closed.

I don't have that many time to try to convince you about my point, i just said what i think.

Cheers :)

[StickyNote 25]

Have you looked around at how many humvees are scattered around the map?

Or how all major cities have temporarily military hospitals?

The military was everywhere, scattered around Chernarus trying to get the infection under control.

Evidence of this exists in the body piles that you can find near cities and especially near military locations like the Chernogorsk military hospital and Green Mountain military base.

They were probably at the airports taking shipments of supplies and medicine. Using fire stations as temporary shelters. And guarding grocery stores from being looted.

As the soldiers became infected, they dropped their weapons and equipment. Chopper pilots became infected and crashed their helicopters. (Notice how some have medical crates near them?)

Not difficult to figure out why there are many weapons scattered around Chernarus in unusual places.

I'm pretty sure those are just integral parts of the map from Arma II .

I find it highly unlikely US soldiers will be deployed to a foreign country to deal with a zombie outbreak, and much more likely they'll remain on home soil to protect the nation.

Regardless, weapons like antimateriel rifles are rarely deployed, and probably would not ever be deployed against zombies. Plus, due to their weight, size, need for extra equipment, these are usually deployed in 2-3 man teams to fully support the weapon.

[deepfried 95]

The problem is just scarcity, or lack of to be more precise. There is nothing wrong with having the AS50 in the game, but with all the duping and hacking you have entire clans going round tooled up with AS50's and thats just not realistic.

Fix the duping/hacking, then tweak the spawn rates, problem solved.

[chefwillis 33]

Take it away as long as you replace it with a weapon that can actually take something out from the same distance. I find it strange that the anti-material rifles are the only ones with such range. Also who ever heard of a sniper rifle that can't kill in 2 hits. One hit should take them down 100% of the time, 2 hits should always be a kill!

[duddbudda 33]

I do believe that US Marine squads are often deployed with an M107 used for both man and vehicle shooting

[#BASEDGOD 27]

Yeah but those rifles are mostly for disabling radar equipments, stationary aircrafts and the like. Any armored vehicle is normally impervious to a .50 and any car/truck can be made quick work of with any assault rifle anyway.

They just propagate the "my gun is bigger than yours" mentality.

And that's an interesting idea, IF a couple equipments where using the backpack slot.

This is what happens when an armchair Operator with Ragu for blood starts making posts about real world weapons use.

Go talk to a veteran and ask how often .50 cal weapon systems are used to engage human targets. More often than not, these are used over other precision weapon systems on targets beyond 1000m.

[duddbudda 33]

I find it strange that the anti-material rifles are the only ones with such range

look up the .50 BMG on wikipedia, you will no longer find it strange

(short answer: heavier bullets with more energy travel at supersonic speeds for longer)

[TheBigShide 5]

You're absolutely right! There should be hundreds of them in Chernarus. Every player should have one! I think an average of at least 1 .50 cal sniper rifle per square km is way too few for DayZ! :D

Or perhaps not. :P

Never mentioned anything about increasing the spawn of the said rifle. My response was to the OP who thinks that having them in the game from a realistic stand point isn't valid. People seem to think that these rifles are solely used for blowing up equipment... Well unfortunately that is wrong.

Stop crying for a removal of a gun because you are all but hurt from being 1 shot by one.

[-Cdn-Chard 96]

The "it doesn't take skill" argument. The ultimate slippery slope. It doesn't take skill to go prone in a building and aim at the door with any weapon so lets remove them all from the game I guess? And also disallow going prone. Everyone has to stand now.

In reality it has nothing to do with how much "skill" is involved and everything to do with the range. You're not mad because they aren't using skills, you're mad because you can't shoot back.

As for balanced, if you don't think the long-ranged rifles are balanced you've honestly never used one. They are good for one application only. Once you are in medium/short range combat the amount of time required to acquire a sight picture and the fact that going prone nearly always obscures nearby targets with tall grass or intervening obstacles, you are a sitting duck for anyone with a decent medium-ranged rifle. Especially because you have a giant cannon sticking out of your back screaming "Hey! Over here! Shoot me!"

So even though to be honest rocket doesn't give a flying fuck about "balanced," these rifles do have pro's and con's.

Never mentioned anything about increasing the spawn of the said rifle. My response was to the OP who thinks that having them in the game from a realistic stand point isn't valid. People seem to think that these rifles are solely used for blowing up equipment... Well unfortunately that is wrong.

Stop crying for a removal of a gun because you are all but hurt from being 1 shot by one.

Where do I start?

Please don't assume that I make a post because I need to vent or I'm mad in some way. I was talking, as a OFP/ARMA/ARMA2 player for over a dozen years, of the unbalancing effect these rifles have on the game in general. I don't care about getting shot by them. Hasn't happened yet in DayZ, I know how to sneak pretty well, although I know a Arma player by the name of Cowboy who's schooled me with the .50 cal many times over the years.

I don't care that they're out of my range, that's not the point. I can perfectly accept that I can't shoot back. What I object to is that particularly powerful weapons that were intended, by their spawn rates, to be extremely rare, are appearing as dupped/spawn farmed weapons on every server. If their ammo was limited, that would be different, but given that their ammunition is effectively unlimited (spawn in with full mags), there's not even that check against them.

When we go to beta, with all of the duping/ammo issues resolved, then by all means try bring them out again. Until then, they're just a gift for most players to camp with.

Finally, any self respecting sniper will have a secondary for close up work. Personally, I like the DMR because it serves both roles quite well, but I'd opt for a good assault rifle if I didn't have a DMR.

Ultimately...

Yes the weapons exist in real life.

Yes modern snipers make use of them

Yes it's nice to beable to stop vehicles with them

Do they contribute to the kind of gameplay that Rocket envisioned?? Does he ultimately want to create a game that's balanced and fun to play? I hope so. DayZ ca be so much more than another FPS.

Does balancing the game take priority before he irons our the mechanics, of course not...

All we can do is give our feedback... pro's and cons...

In the end, Rocket makes of DayZ what he wants...

[heretic (DayZ) 76]

Never mentioned anything about increasing the spawn of the said rifle. My response was to the OP who thinks that having them in the game from a realistic stand point isn't valid. People seem to think that these rifles are solely used for blowing up equipment... Well unfortunately that is wrong.

Stop crying for a removal of a gun because you are all but hurt from being 1 shot by one.

You mistake my posts in 2 ways.

1) Not crying for removal. Simply agreeing with the OP that the .50 cals are overpowered and that there are far, far, far too many of them in DayZ. That is entirely unrealistic and certainly not an authentic reflection on the availability of this weapon in real life, even within the military. I agree with the OP that they should be removed. There is no crying in expressing an opinion!

2) Not butt hurt (note two T's in butt) from being shot by one. I've only ever been hit by a sniper once in 370 hours of testing DayZ using anything more sophisticated than a Lee Enfield, AK, M16 or M4. Including trips to the NWAF, NEAF, Balota, Stary Sobor, Elektro, Cherno or Berezino.

Agree or disagree. No problem. But accusations of crying and being butt hurt are not constructive dialogue and do little to support your arguments.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

1) Not crying for removal. Simply agreeing with the OP that the .50 cals are overpowered and that there are far, far, far too many of them in DayZ. That is entirely unrealistic and certainly not an authentic reflection on the availability of this weapon in real life, even within the military. I agree with the OP that they should be removed. There is no crying in expressing an opinion!

Dude, you are a piece of work. The acrobatics you go through to justify your suggestions yet attempt not to seem like you are calling for nerfs and punishments for PvP is hilarious.

Authentic reflection of the availability of weapons?

Is that really what you want?

Including every weapon in the game? Because there are far, far, far, far, too many of everything right now from the makarov straight on through to the M107 and everything in between. If authenticity is what you want you're going to be running around with a flashlight for a long, long time.

Stop hiding behind bullshit excuses. You want the .50 cal gone because people use it to snipe in PvP. That's it. Justify it or stuff it.

Do they contribute to the kind of gameplay that Rocket envisioned?? Does he ultimately want to create a game that's balanced and fun to play? I hope so.

Well, I wasn't going to bring it up, but since you asked, no. He has no intention of balancing the game. Here's what he has to say about that:

You are the inhabitants of the world. I am the architect. You guys are going to decide how this world plays out. Don't compare this to other games and look for different balancing mechanics. This is an attempt at something different' date=' it is an experiment. [b']There is no balance, other than the balance you will put in. I will put in the features required for you to either destroy this world into mindless PVP, or create something else. Don't look to me for that balance, because I will not give you it. We started this in a particular way, we're going to finish in that way.

Edited July 18, 2012 by ZedsDeadBaby

[jesquik 75]

It used to be like that for the M107 but they changed it a while back.

I honestly want to see less one shot kill weapons, but if they must be in the game have it take up a backpack slot. I've used the anti-tank rocket before and it is not really any different in size than the AS-50.