A plea to Rocket: Fix What's Broken or Let Us Help

[-E-Claymore 22]

Quite a few of my friends and I started playing DayZ a few weeks back and we've enjoyed the hell out of the game. Or we were. Now we're all exceptionally frustrated with it's current state, nearly to the point of leaving the game until the stand-alone comes out.

If I get killed by someone with a sniper rifle because I ventured into "their" territory, fine. If I get into a gunfight over a can of beans and bleed to death, so be it. If I get careless and aggro a whole mess of zombies, I can accept the consequences. What I can't stand though, is all of the cheating that's going on.

Aimbots, ESP, being killed from the map, etc.; the list goes on and it seems like nothing is being done to address it. There are websites dedicated to exploiting this wonderful game, simply because they can, and "It's part of ARMA II" as an explanation doesn't go very far.

What's the point of looking for vehicles, searching for supplies, and getting the gear you really want, when it can be taken away in a second due to some game jerk using a hack? Things like this will KILL interest in DayZ, which would be a truly sad thing, as it's one of the most enjoyable games we've played in a long time.

Active admins on a server can be a good front-line against this sort of behavior, IF they were able to ban players for this sort of activity... but they can't. In fact, we've heard that admins are getting even more restrictions on what they can do, so what's the point of even hosting a server? All that's doing is providing a place for other people to play in, and if honest players have to put up with the hacks and cheats and exploits... They. Will. Leave.

Who's left? The people ruining the game.

We started hosting a server, as we were hoping to create a more honest, stable play environment, but then we're told that we can't ban people for using hacks, only if their ping is too high. That's crap. If BattleEye can't catch the things people are doing, it should be up to server admins to do it, even if it only affects their server.

We're talking about shutting our server down soon and moving on to a different game, which is highly disappointing, especially with as many people as I've told about this formerly amazing, currently frustrating game.

Edited July 18, 2012 by -E-Claymore

[Heineken (DayZ) 15]

I understand your frustration but you have to understand that Rocket does not have control of battle eye. No game and especially no alpha mod with be hack free. If you feel that you need to leave the community so be it. However, you have to understand that hacks are a part of gaming whether we like it or not. I see that you have stated you run your own server. You realize that if you sit there and look inside of the server console you can see the scripts that are being run within your game and also who is running them.

[zipper 69]

Hacking will always be present in every game as long as people are given the freedom to learn and write code. It is, as Rocket even mentioned, why this mod even exists. It is essentially a hack of the core game, Arma 2. There is little you can do about it, and there is no system we will ever play on that will be 100% immune to hackers. Even games with servers only hosted by the parent company have to deal with hackers.

Not sure why you care about being told you can't ban for hacks. If you record and provide that proof of why you banned whoever you did, unless the hacker is a complete moron, he isn't going to say anything. What's he going to do, come on the forums and complain? Just link the video and he will be globally banned from all servers. Obviously if you don't provide proof, it will just be his word against yours, so make sure you have it and your hacker will go away.

[gant12000 4]

as a fan of this game i want to help. i would love to help, but realistically, if fans like me were helping, as competent of lack of competent i may be, it would make things, for lack of a better term, worse. 24 guys working on the same line of code because they can, or 1 guy being assigned code but not meeting deadlines because really this isnt his job.

i want to help if i can, or could, but realistically i think stepping back and letting rocket and the guys at BI handle it. a game that was designed for 100 players has far surpassed anyone's expectations. and with each new copy of the game Arma 2 bought, it doesnt put money into Rocket's pockets (yay for dr suess) but it is forcing the larger production houses to take a look at how they treat gamers from the stand point of product owners.

summary, we want to help, but if we help we may do more harm than good.

sorry for the long post, this is just my opinion, and not a good one at that.

[-E-Claymore 22]

You realize that if you sit there and look inside of the server console you can see the scripts that are being run within your game and also who is running them.

Yes, but from what we've been told/seen, admins can't ban people from their servers. The cheaters just go crying to the forum and the servers get blacklisted. That helps things how?

I can't force anyone to agree with me, I'm only expressing the concern and frustration that I'm seeing in the entire group of my friends. I suppose I could have simply said "Let server admins ban people if they need to", but that wouldn't have the same impact.

I know it's in Alpha, and things will be screwed up. I work for video a game company that put it's game out in Alpha, believe me, I know. But that doesn't mean everyone should sit idly by while some people make the game a lot less enjoyable for everyone else. If server admins can thin the hacking and cheating out by banning players that do it, I don't see why we can't. Yes, I realize that could be abused as well, but which is the lesser evil? (Yes, game hacking is evil.)

Edited July 18, 2012 by -E-Claymore

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Maybe there should be an area on the forums for server admins to collaborate/swap ideas/information.

Some admins seem much better at dealing with hackers than others, maybe a pool of knowledge could benefit everyone.

[gant12000 4]

Maybe there should be an area on the forums for server admins to collaborate/swap ideas/information.

Some admins seem much better at dealing with hackers than others, maybe a pool of knowledge could benefit everyone.

sharing information with allies is always a good idea.

Edited July 18, 2012 by gant12000

[Worrun (DayZ) 108]

I guess I'm lucky in the fact that I haven't seen any hackers or cheaters so far :o

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

I've experienced a hack once in the last 2 months, and it was quite funny.

[Jehangir 52]

You are testing playing the alpha build of a mod game. Things will be broken, tried, removed, added, retried, until the mod takes shape.

[starwarsfan@gmx.de 450]

You are testing playing the alpha build of a mod game. Things will be broken, tried, removed, added, retried, until the mod takes shape.

Read the OP? lol

[-E-Claymore 22]

You are testing playing the alpha build of a mod game. Things will be broken, tried, removed, added, retried, until the mod takes shape.

[Redact original reply]

I'm aware of that, and even said so in my post, but that doesn't mean that we, as a community, shouldn't try to help mitigate the problems. Giving server admins the ability to police the servers that they are paying for could do just that.

Edited July 18, 2012 by -E-Claymore

[-E-Claymore 22]

I guess I'm lucky in the fact that I haven't seen any hackers or cheaters so far :o

Three of my friends and I were resupplying at one of our tents, then all four of us were thrown into the air, at least a couple hundred feet in my case. I died immediately, two logged out on impact (alive, but severely wounded), and one died when it happened a second time a few seconds later.

We've seen aimbots at work, no other way to explain someone with their back to you, that spins around and headshots you in about a second.

I've logged in and had a Mk12 SPR and 8 mags spawned into my gear, twice.

[entelin 13]

Unfortunately many of these fixes must come from bohemia, I think they know how important it is and are trying to improve things. That said, I wouldn't expect things to get much better until Arma3.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

Basically it's all on Bohemia with this, there is very little a mod script can do to detect cheating.

[-E-Claymore 22]

Unfortunately many of these fixes must come from bohemia, I think they know how important it is and are trying to improve things. That said, I wouldn't expect things to get much better until Arma3.

Perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree. With the boost that DayZ has given to ARMA II sales, maybe they can be convinced to implement a fix. Doubtful, especially since they have ARMA III in dev, but I may just give it a shot.

[Zylock 7]

I'm another of the admins on the server Claymore is talking about. You could call me part of our posse.

I'll try to expound a little, since I agree entirely with Claymore's intent with this post.

This is a mod, in alpha, for a game that wasn't initially designed to handle what it's currently being asked to do by DayZ. These are things we're aware of. However, regardless of the shape or form of the game, or the position in its development cycle, rampant hacking and cheating is going to, and is currently, having a really severe and debilitating effect on us players. Mod instability is one thing, player error is another, but when you have your experience robbed from you by someone using a hack, the 4th wall is broken. The immersion is shattered and replaced by dejection and frustration.

I'm afraid that if steps aren't made to address, even if it's only verbally, the list of hacks and exploits, too many people are going to wind up disillusioned to the point of bad-mouthing the mod while moving on to the next game.

I'll rephrase a little. Right now, this unstable, half-broken alpha mod is DayZ. The impressions people are going to have of the game are based on what's available now, not the eventual potential of the mod. Ergo, I think actions like permitting more stringent server control by admins should take place to mitigate the damage that cheaters are causing to DayZ's reputation.

That's why Calymore's subject line says "Fix it or let us help." We know that it's too much to ask that the entire mod be fixed overnight, made free of every feasible hack, exploit, or glitchy instability. Please give us the ability to punish people who abuse the game, or, even better, insulate ourselves from exposure to them in the first place.

[Nexagelion 8]

I pay the bill for the server Claymore, me, and many friends play on.

How someone has played a few weeks and not seen a single hack or exploit is amazing.

How we feel is that let us server admins help. Saying that we can ban someone and get them a global ban for hacks and such IF we can provide screenshots or evidence is bullshit. How do you provide evidence of the pop pop hack or the ESP hacks? Many many people seem to be the victim of both of those. Blaming this on ARMA and just rushing headlong with dev and limiting server admin power to stop this is ludicrous. Glitches will happen. Its an alpha, I get that. Crazy weird shit will happen sometimes.

Saying "Hackers exist, deal with it" is a crap answer as well. Do I as the person paying the bill for the server have the want or time to sit and watch the server log all the time every day? No way. Not going to happen.

So give us tools and power to be able to kick/ban when we need to, or take a good long look at some of the current hacks/exploits. And before anyone says admins will abuse power too much. Admins already are, and there are just as many if not more complaints about that as hacking. Shouldnt that be treated the same way? But shouldnt those of us that love the game, enjoy the hunt, the intensity, and ll of the amazing things that Day Z can provide have more reassurance?

I dont want to lock my server down. I just want to make it open and friendly (as much as I can) to play on where people dont have to worry about any form of hacking. Is that really asking too much? I mean, there are websites dedicated to SELLING AN INSTALLER to mod your game with hacks. Yet nothing seems to be being done about that.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Nexagelion

[Womb Raider 92]

I pay the bill for the server Claymore, me, and many friends play on.

How someone has played a few weeks and not seen a single hack or exploit is amazing.

How we feel is that let us server admins help. Saying that we can ban someone and get them a global ban for hacks and such IF we can provide screenshots or evidence is bullshit. How do you provide evidence of the pop pop hack or the ESP hacks? Many many people seem to be the victim of both of those. Blaming this on ARMA and just rushing headlong with dev and limiting server admin power to stop this is ludicrous. Glitches will happen. Its an alpha, I get that. Crazy weird shit will happen sometimes.

Saying "Hackers exist, deal with it" is a crap answer as well. Do I as the person paying the bill for the server have the want or time to sit and watch the server log all the time every day? No way. Not going to happen.

So give us tools and power to be able to kick/ban when we need to, or take a good long look at some of the current hacks/exploits. And before anyone says admins will abuse power too much. Admins already are, and there are just as many if not more complaints about that as hacking. Shouldnt that be treated the same way? But shouldnt those of us that love the game, enjoy the hunt, the intensity, and ll of the amazing things that Day Z can provide have more reassurance?

I dont want to lock my server down. I just want to make it open and friendly (as much as I can) to play on where people dont have to worry about any form of hacking. Is that really asking too much? I mean, there are websites dedicated to SELLING AN INSTALLER to mod your game with hacks. Yet nothing seems to be being done about that.

Are you retarded? What does a website selling hacks have to do with Rocket? Jesus Christ.

[Nexagelion 8]

Are you retarded? What does a website selling hacks have to do with Rocket? Jesus Christ.

A hack is being sold to people. Said hack must be altering peoples code in the same way to affect the same ingame results. Dev gets hands on said hack, closes hole that allows hack, hack no longer exists. How is this not a problem for and have nothing to do with Rocket and the rest of the devs?

[-E-Claymore 22]

Are you retarded? What does a website selling hacks have to do with Rocket? Jesus Christ.

The following is from the 'latest news' section on one of the sites that sells cheats:

July 13, 2012, 15:27 CEST by netvortex: Arma2 *** / Dayz Aimbot online again!

Hi everyone, we have updated our Dayz ARMA2 hack and it's undetected again. As announced we have digged deeply into Battleye and this update should last a little bit longer...

July 11, 2012, 16:40 CEST by 1984: ARMA 2 hack down

Even though I disabled every single check that BE runs, people are still getting banned. Hence the only thing I can think of is to disable the hack until figure out what is going on. I hope that the people who can run the hack without an issue understand why I have to do this. I will keep you posted.

July 6, 2012, 00:06 CEST by netvortex: Arma2 *** / Dayz Aimbot released!

Hi everyone, this announcement is coming a little bit late but we have released our *** & Aimbot for ARMA2. As some of you noticed we had a problem with Battleeye but since the developer forced us to look deeper into his software we can assure you that we soon will have a permanent solution for this anti-cheat software (similar to Punkbuster).

So...how is this not something a developer should be aware of?

Edited July 18, 2012 by -E-Claymore

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

The following is from the 'latest news' section on one of the sites that sells cheats:

July 13, 2012, 15:27 CEST by netvortex: Arma2 *** / Dayz Aimbot online again!

Hi everyone, we have updated our Dayz ARMA2 hack and it's undetected again. As announced we have digged deeply into Battleye and this update should last a little bit longer...

July 11, 2012, 16:40 CEST by 1984: ARMA 2 hack down

Even though I disabled every single check that BE runs, people are still getting banned. Hence the only thing I can think of is to disable the hack until figure out what is going on. I hope that the people who can run the hack without an issue understand why I have to do this. I will keep you posted.

July 6, 2012, 00:06 CEST by netvortex: Arma2 *** / Dayz Aimbot released!

Hi everyone, this announcement is coming a little bit late but we have released our *** & Aimbot for ARMA2. As some of you noticed we had a problem with Battleeye but since the developer forced us to look deeper into his software we can assure you that we soon will have a permanent solution for this anti-cheat software (similar to Punkbuster).

So...how is this not something a developer should be aware of?

Well, I read it and it sounds like they're having to try harder because of global bans and Battleye.

So although I take your point it also looks like some of the defenses are working too. It even states that the developer (BI) have forced them to look deeper into the software. So they are aware of it. No?

[thedog88 180]

hope these people die and go away... pisses me off. we should appeal to some other hackers to make this shit hack proof.

[-E-Claymore 22]

One of our group was killed with a fully automatic crossbow today, which is almost funny, but only because it didn't happen to me. About 10 minutes later he says that he found a box just off the shore near the Balota airfield. In this box were 10 of every weapon in the game, not DayZ, in ARMA II. We told him to get some screen shots, hopefully will have those available later.

So I started streaming the BE script on our server for a few hours while playing, put them in a Word doc (all 1,588 pages of it at 8 font size). Problem is, I'm not 100% sure what to look for, though I do see a few anomalies with a couple of players that I believe may be hack script. This is where Fraggle's idea about having a place where we can pool our resources would come in handy. The only down side to having it on the forum is, well, it might give some other people ideas.

It'd be really nice if there were some way to have a dev, or any expert on it that wants to make cheating in the game a VERY risky thing to do, be able to take a look at the suspect bits of log. I'm just afraid that this could get to be a huge chore for someone, so maybe crowdsourcing may be the way to go. Ideas welcome here.

[-E-Claymore 22]

Followup to my previous post:

It may be possible to create a list of confirmed cheats (commands, weapon hacks, etc.) that would be available to server admins, though who would do the compiling is beyond me. As far as going through hundreds, if not thousands, of pages of script entries, I'm considering the 'replace' feature to get rid of most of the repetitive text, that way it leaves only the anomalies. Should be much easier to scan through.

Edited July 19, 2012 by -E-Claymore