Increase pvp difficulty so its actually takes skill.

[jupsto 5]

yeah theres really no skill in pvp in this game, even tho its a shooter. getting shot through walls, 3rd person view to see around corners, getting 1 shot from a bush other side of the valley... both killing people and getting killed is boring because of this. I mean when is it actually challenging? I've come up behind a 3 man group with a winchester, the only fun part was looking through each body for loot, its not like people can put up a fight when all I have to do is come up behind and click 3 times. 99% of the time it comes down to who saw who first, thats it.

I hope its a bit different in the standalone otherwise I can't see it having the longevity they are aiming for. Here's a couple ideas how to help make it more challenging pvp, by generally making it more difficult to kill someone and not just a point and click.

1. They need to make weapons alot less accurate, and have proper recoil. assume survivors are civilians not trained soldiers. (see project reality bf2, where taking your time and managing recoil is how to win a fire fight, not just putting cross-hair on the enemy)
   
2. Sacrifice some realism in terms of weapon damage (not have people die to 1 shot to body)
   
3. Enforce first person view - no crosshairs, only shooting accurately through iron sights. (aka vetern mode only)
   
4. better 3d sound? idk about you but in other games I can actually tell which direction im being shot from, and when a zombie is screaming its impossible to tell how close it is on sound alone. better 3d would mean aggressors could be located. I remember being taking very inaccurate fire for along time from a distance I could hear the gun fire but could not place the direction, like I would in other shooters.
   

its obviously not a definitive list, just some ideas. let the flaming commence!

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

"Yes" to better 3D sound! Good call.

Otherwise, a big fat "no" to the rest of this ridiculous bullshit. 3rd person and crosshairs applies to everyone on the server so they offer no advantage. If you don't like them, play on different servers.

Not even going to dignify the "sacrifice realism in terms of weapon damage" with a response because I will probably end up with another warning from a moderator for the names I end up calling you in the process.

[qweets 31]

you do realize all the guns are modeled pretty damn real as arma 2 is a mil-sim... Some random roll the dice accuracy isn't an answer to anything. If you don't find it fun then don't play it.

As for 3d sound, I dunno whats wrong with your sound but I can tell where everything is coming from with my Astro A40's no problem.

Rocket will never sacrifice realism, ever. So get used to being one shot by high caliber rounds, because thats how it works in RL.

[Gruelius 16]

id like 3rd person disabled on the whole, as most of the good servers have it on :(. but thats an immersion decision rocket and the team have to make i guess. or it could be left as is, more servers will show up

[Lou_Drew 10]

Not sure that I agree.

The game is almost as realistic as it can get, and that's the point.

Obviously over half a million people are semi-fine with it the way it is. There's no reason to make it into something it's not.

Just because you want gun-fights to be like other shooters doesn't make it a good thing. The reason DayZ is getting so much attention is because it's finally a game that's actually willing to be different.

Let it be different.

[nightass 3]

in real war the winner of most fights is who saw who first I don't no about you but I dont think I would be able to shoot or even think very well after getting shot I think I would be on the ground begging for help not realy shooting back

[outlawxxable 10]

I completly agree with decreasing weapon damage

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

I'm not sure how this works in the arma engine, but usually there are a couple more hitboxes on a character, and not all of those insta kill. Sure a headshot does (99% of the time) but not all bodyshots are instantly deadly or else there wouldn't be any gunshot survivors and there are...

agreed on all of the rest, except for maybe some of the difficulty settings, but these should come with just ONE option for server admins, you choose a difficulty setting for your server and that comes with X or without it.... as such players can choose what they want, and basically not call themselves an expert on an expert noted server with half the recruit options active :/

[paradox. 12]

1. Enforce first person view - no crosshairs, only shooting accurately through iron sights. (aka vetern mode only)
   

Only thing i agree with.

[Deviant (DayZ) 43]

There is a PvP discussion thread for a reason.

[Tuomio (DayZ) 3]

I dont know if you guys have been into army or have tried shooting at somewhere else but I have. So here's some things I think about guns and shooting. Shooting is not that hard but games can never achieve full realism. I think this game has very realistic weapons. Bullets in this game wont fly straight so you can't just aim to horizon and hit something and bullets have velocity depending on the gun. Shooting close range which is the usual situation in game is actually fairly easy also shooting in distance at static target is still fairly easy, though it is much much more harder when you are on a knee or specially standing.

So try to hit a moving target in distance in this game and tell me is it easy. I think best way to avoid getting shot is to keep moving. Guns are so powerful that I believe their damage should definently not be changed. These things also applies in real life.

Things that SHOULD or could be changed:

- 3rd person mode because with it you can have significant advantage over another player. For example you can be behind a wall and watch over it and somebody on the other side has no change of seeing you. SO it is significant infair advantage.

- Any external crosshairs of course. It is still possible to aim without iron sight.

- gun shot sounds should be hugely increased in terms of players hearing them. For example the sound created by AK type assault rifle will be heard clearily over kilometer away. Im not sure how far but much more than now in Arma.

- Shootin crouched and standing should be much more difficoult. Aiming crouched is far more difficoult than one would think without trying it. Also aiming at standing position is very hard. With a long barreled sniper it is actually impossible without any support. The heavier the gun is its harder to aim standing/crouched. But MP5 and pistols should be pretty easy to aim at standin because they are fairly light even with full ammo. Anytime when the gun can be supported against something static aiming is much more easier.

Well I am realism freak and always looking things from real life aspect. It doesnt work always but in this game those things could work. Also im pretty happy with things being as they are. This game is brutal and I have been shot few times. I really like fire fights in this game since it is very satisfying to have somebody killed. I've got sniped in a field because I was lying down and I did not run away when I could have been safe. I had absolutely no change when I just laid there but I was not much aggrowated about it. I think it was fair situation since somebody had seen seen me there.

Omg now I finish since I could go on forever with these things. xD so long post haha!

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

BF2:Project Reality has added the deviation system because BF2 doesn't have the sway system that Arma2 has. Try sprinting around for a bit in DayZ until you're out of breath and then see how easy it is to aim.

I disagree with all your points. (except maybe the audio, but thats not going to make pvp more difficult)

In real life you can easily kill someone, it's not difficult. You aim your weapon and pull a trigger. Who saw who first is what it comes down to. So, you're basically asking to have DayZ be made unrealistic in the hopes that PVP will decrease or become more difficult? No thanks!

Edited July 18, 2012 by bad_mojo

[jupsto 5]

3rd person and crosshairs applies to everyone on the server so they offer no advantage. If you don't like them, play on different servers.

I do play on hardest mode servers, but you can bet any real power gamer pker is going to go to easy mode servers to farm all his items where its way easier, then switch to my hard server and have an advantage over me. so actually you couldn't be more wrong.

the only way separate difficulties is acceptable is with different main servers/databases, which at least wont happen in alpha.

So, you're basically asking to have DayZ be made unrealistic in the hopes that PVP will decrease or become more difficult? No thanks!

I would consider all ideas except the damage one to drastically increase "realism". people are posting like the game has unflawed realism, the high level of realism compared to most games, is one of the reasons dayz is so great. but its not a sim like arma, it has some very unrealistic features too. morphine mends broken bones etc, its still a game.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Banok

[thorgold 91]

ZedsDead beat me to the punch:

3D sound: Yes! A thousand times yes!

Everything else:

Edited July 18, 2012 by thorgold

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

the only way separate difficulties is acceptable is with different main servers/databases, which at least wont happen in alpha.

That's a great idea. Different hive servers based on difficulty setting.

I would consider all ideas except the damage one to drastically increase "realism". people are posting like the game has unflawed realism, the high level of realism compared to most games, is one of the reasons dayz is so great. but its not a sim like arma, it has some very unrealistic features too. morphine mends broken bones etc, its still a game.

How is making weapons perform worse going to increase realism? If you said improve gameplay, or teamwork or something like that, okay, maybe. But, not realism. It's not rocket science, you aim and shoot.

This isn't a battlefield or call of duty engine, it's designed to simulate reality. The unrealistic morphine or blood levels in DayZ doesn't corrupt the realistic firearm handling.

[vision1776 42]

Get rid of weapon damage as realistic = running and gunning without fear of death. Might as well add new items called "Over Shields" while we are at it.

[SuperGhost 0]

ZedsDead beat me to the punch:

3D sound: Yes! A thousand times yes!

Everything else:

+1 Veteran Mode is there for a reason join veteran mode and QQ less :P and i think the Recoil is fine <-- (IMO!)

[Jean Jacques Serrault 37]

1. Proper recoil yes, less accurate no.

2. Not 1 shoot in the body and die is a good idea.

3. There's already an option to enable or disable the 3rd person view. Join the server with this thing turned off if ya wanna go real PvP.

4. Agree with the 3D sound. It would make better tactical decision and fun.

Edited July 21, 2012 by Jean Jacques Serrault

[entelin 13]

99% of the time it comes down to who saw who first, thats it.

Position and scouting is more important than your l33t twitch skills. Thats just a fact both in real life and in Arma, its the way it should be.

They need to make weapons alot less accurate, and have proper recoil.

The accuracy / recoil need to be redone, accuracy needs to be worse than it is now from recoil, but better more quickly from simple exhastion, its crazy how long it takes for your weapon to be accurate after a run. Hopefully resolved in Arma3, it wont happen before then.

Sacrifice some realism in terms of weapon damage (not have people die to 1 shot to body)

This is pretty good in arma2, most guns do not kill you in one body hit as your suggesting, but it is going to hurt/disable you as it should.

Enforce first person view - no crosshairs, only shooting accurately through iron sights. (aka vetern mode only)

I'd like to agree, however many of the iron sights are terrible. See recoil response. Hopefully in Arma3, but I'd be fine with all servers being in Vet mode even now.

better 3d sound? idk about you but in other games I can actually tell which direction im being shot from, and when a zombie is screaming its impossible to tell how close it is on sound alone.

I generally can in arma, better sounds coming in Arma3. DayZ can't do anything about this.

[zipper 69]

yeah theres really no skill in pvp in this game, even tho its a shooter. getting shot through walls, 3rd person view to see around corners, getting 1 shot from a bush other side of the valley... both killing people and getting killed is boring because of this. I mean when is it actually challenging? I've come up behind a 3 man group with a winchester, the only fun part was looking through each body for loot, its not like people can put up a fight when all I have to do is come up behind and click 3 times. 99% of the time it comes down to who saw who first, thats it.

I hope its a bit different in the standalone otherwise I can't see it having the longevity they are aiming for. Here's a couple ideas how to help make it more challenging pvp, by generally making it more difficult to kill someone and not just a point and click.

1. They need to make weapons alot less accurate, and have proper recoil. assume survivors are civilians not trained soldiers. (see project reality bf2, where taking your time and managing recoil is how to win a fire fight, not just putting cross-hair on the enemy)
   
2. Sacrifice some realism in terms of weapon damage (not have people die to 1 shot to body)
   
3. Enforce first person view - no crosshairs, only shooting accurately through iron sights. (aka vetern mode only)
   
4. better 3d sound? idk about you but in other games I can actually tell which direction im being shot from, and when a zombie is screaming its impossible to tell how close it is on sound alone. better 3d would mean aggressors could be located. I remember being taking very inaccurate fire for along time from a distance I could hear the gun fire but could not place the direction, like I would in other shooters.
   

its obviously not a definitive list, just some ideas. let the flaming commence!

Thread is titled increase pvp difficulty so it actually takes skill.

1st point is reducing the accuracy of the weapons......wtf? So your "skill" is how lucky you are with bullet spread? Since that is the model BF3 currently uses, and people bitch to no end about how much it removes the skill aspect of the game, I'll chalk this one up as something you didn't put a lot of thought into.

2nd point is sacrifice some realism in terms of weapon damage.....REALLY? So the "skill" aspect of the game, whoever can put their crosshair on a target and pull the trigger the fastest now gets bumped to whoever has the biggest gun? So now the skill takes a back seat to, once again, how lucky you are in finding loot? Fool me once...

3rd point is enforce first person view. Uh ok. You realize there are servers already like this? Join one of them and your 3rd point is solved. There is no significant advantage in either veteran or expert servers. The tools are either present for everyone, or completely removed for everyone.

4th point is better 3d sound. Sure, I'm always for improving the core aspects of the game. Not sure what you are using to play your sound with but I don't really have a problem being able to find who is shooting at me, but I do have a fairly decent headset, at least it was a couple years ago. There isn't really anything they can do about this right now though as this is going to be a limitation in the core game, not in DayZ. If this was really important to you perhaps you can head over to the BIS forums and post your suggestion about the sound there.

[IrishExecutioner 2]

1. The accuracy on the weapons is fine. Adding more recoil to the weapons and reducing their accuracy would be asinine it wouldn't solve any problems or be realistic it would just make shooting like a dice game.

2. I don't think you understand the point of the mod, adding more location based damage and wounding would be good though.

3. If you want to play veteran mode without crosshairs or third person the option exists. Forcing it on everyone would be pointless.

4. 3d sound would be a welcome addition to the game.

[Jehangir 52]

yeah theres really no skill in pvp in this game, even tho its a shooter. getting shot through walls, 3rd person view to see around corners, getting 1 shot from a bush other side of the valley... both killing people and getting killed is boring because of this. I mean when is it actually challenging? I've come up behind a 3 man group with a winchester, the only fun part was looking through each body for loot, its not like people can put up a fight when all I have to do is come up behind and click 3 times. 99% of the time it comes down to who saw who first, thats it.

I hope its a bit different in the standalone otherwise I can't see it having the longevity they are aiming for. Here's a couple ideas how to help make it more challenging pvp, by generally making it more difficult to kill someone and not just a point and click.

1. They need to make weapons alot less accurate, and have proper recoil. assume survivors are civilians not trained soldiers. (see project reality bf2, where taking your time and managing recoil is how to win a fire fight, not just putting cross-hair on the enemy)
   
2. Sacrifice some realism in terms of weapon damage (not have people die to 1 shot to body)
   
3. Enforce first person view - no crosshairs, only shooting accurately through iron sights. (aka vetern mode only)
   
4. better 3d sound? idk about you but in other games I can actually tell which direction im being shot from, and when a zombie is screaming its impossible to tell how close it is on sound alone. better 3d would mean aggressors could be located. I remember being taking very inaccurate fire for along time from a distance I could hear the gun fire but could not place the direction, like I would in other shooters.
   

its obviously not a definitive list, just some ideas. let the flaming commence!

1. Debatable. If you have tested for long, especially as overwatch, weapons can be pretty damn inaccurate and zeroing adds to this fun.

2. No. There is no merit to this suggestion. You didn't even provide any arguments for it.

3. No. This is why we have the option of Newbie, Regular and Veteran servers. You want that? Go to a veteran server. Give the new player (or ones that prefer 3rd person) a break.

4. Yes. This has immense potential, and should be implemented, though there may be some engine restrictions on it.

[Zeromentor 169]

"Yes" to better 3D sound! Good call.

Otherwise, a big fat "no" to the rest of this ridiculous bullshit. 3rd person and crosshairs applies to everyone on the server so they offer no advantage. If you don't like them, play on different servers.

Not even going to dignify the "sacrifice realism in terms of weapon damage" with a response because I will probably end up with another warning from a moderator for the names I end up calling you in the process.

This. +100

Realistic Recoil is different from person to person. I can fire a 12 gauge without issue. My nephew is my height and bodyweight and has issues firing a .45 pistol... My neighbor loves his .308 rifle and is 5 foot tall. Managable recoil is personal perference to some degree and if you want a fight that isn't from one side of a valley to another then go to a town. Don't want crosshairs or 3rd person cameras? Change server. Dislike tags? Change server. Don't like the weapon damage? Well guess what. The only guns that kill with one body shot are .50 rifles and the Lee Enfield. That's 3 guns total. The rest are about 8k blood per round or less (even the AKM is less than 5k, and 5.56 or 5.45 rounds are under 4k). So yeah.

Have fun.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

I do play on hardest mode servers, but you can bet any real power gamer pker is going to go to easy mode servers to farm all his items where its way easier, then switch to my hard server and have an advantage over me. so actually you couldn't be more wrong.

Umm, right. Okay. So just to be clear you think the "real power gamer pkers" are going to deliberately play on servers where their position is constantly exposed to other players from over a km away and they appear on people's maps making them not only vulnerable but also undermining any attempt they make to play tactically and gain an advantage over people?

And they're going to implement this brilliant maniacal plan in order to kill other players on those servers who are most certainly completely new and have absolutely no gear that the veteran player could possibly need and somehow this is supposed to allow them to farm gear more easily?

If people want to farm gear, they do it at night on empty servers in Stary Sobor, the NWAF or at crashed helicopters.

And they do it on hardcore servers so they can't be spotted and name-tagged/ranged from 2km away by some nubcake with his first M24 and a hard-on for target practice.

So, yeah, "couldn't be more wrong" seems like a bit of a stretch.

Again, if you don't like 3rd person and crosshairs, don't play on those servers. But don't try to invent some elaborate fiction in which the people who do choose to play on those servers are somehow gaining a tactical advantage over you when you're on a completely different server. That's pure, unadulterated silliness.

[wormholes556 34]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/23649309.jpg