Insanity System, combating banditry

[CraigWazHere 7]

I propose a new system for killing, to prevent banditry/unnecessary killing Edit: LOWER the ammount of banditry and unnecessary killing which is both an annoyance and unrealistic. Which is a huge problem for the games future. And also change the way to obtain bandit skins.

It's not a great idea but it's something noone has came up with yet, it's basically a system of madness and the mental consequences of killing another survivor. In a real life zombie apocalypse, if you see a survivor, you see someone who can help you or accompany you in your adventures. You wouldn't come across someone and see someone you could kill for food/weapons... If you thought about killing someone in real life you wouldn't be able to live with that thought, it would drive you insane over time.

The system could be a percentage of how sane your character is: 100% being the starting amount and the maximum, normal sanity, 0% being completely insane. (We'll investigate the consequences of it later)

It would reset upon death and it would change accordingly when you kill a bandit, 'threat' or survivor.

Killing a bandit would raise your sanity by 10%, Making you feel good about yourself, you'd know you possibly just saved a few lives.

Killing a threat would not affect your sanity. A threat would be someone who has already shot at you and provoked an attack/self defense. This would be sort of neutral, you'd hate the thought of killing someone, but be relieved knowing they shot at you first. (A bandit who had provoked an attack will still provide the effects of killing a bandit, still raising it by 10%)

Killing an 'innocent' would lower your sanity by 5%, killing someone who has done no harm to you is definitely a bad thing.

The effects of insanity could be as follows:

100%-0% Maximum and minimum.

100%-90% No effect.

90%-60% Bandit skin obtained. Permanent light shaking which other players can see. Hand-eye coordination affected, you won't be able to reload as fast or change weapons nearly as efficiently.

60%-30% '90 to 60's effects worsened.

30%-0% Effectively... Brain damage. Random murmuring and heavy breathing, your character will howl and scream when they're in just a small amount of pain. It can be heard by players and zombies, making your insanity clearly visible to other players. Your sanity can't ever be raised. It will only lower down to 0%. You'll never be sane again.

Some items could effect this:

Maybe owning/using some sort of item could temporarily disable the effects. Injecting drugs/drinking alcohol could disable the initial signs of insanity (the '90 to 60's effects could temporarily stop) Of course the drugs/drink aspect might not be allowed in the game.

/End Idea

I've barely even played dayZ much yet, or used this forum. I'll check this topic for suggestions and add them if enough people want them. I'm not an expert in insanity and I'm just 14. Just so you know :)

(Remember to vote in the poll.)

Edited July 15, 2012 by CraigWazHere

[jesquik 75]

Anything that adds a handicap to a player for playing how they choose is no good and won't be accepted by the majority of the user base. It also isn't likely going to be accepted by Rocket who has clearly stated that banditry is a key component of the game.

I do, however, like the idea of an insanity system, mostly because I have used them and seen them implemented in pen and paper games and because it worked out really well in the game Amnesia: The Dark Descent. Also, killing people in cold blood will make you insane in some way, and in a post-apoc game I can see it increasing paranoia the most.

If you want to see how the system in the Cthulu games has been converted to the d20 system, check this out: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/sanity.htm

This might give you some more ideas on how a real insanity system would be implemented. I would love to see something like random sounds, voices, gunshots, things like that. I will never support a handicap like shaking or slowness because it promotes one style of play too much. I support any system that adds atmosphere to the game, however, and if you can think of a way that insanity could add to the atmosphere of the game, I am on board!

[Riis 22]

First off, Use the search function, I've read at least 5 other threads suggesting the exact same thing.

Second, NO! As Jesquik states, banditry is a key component of this game. Without bandits, the game would be boring and you wouldn't feel the same paranoia when you move around never knowing if you're being followed or someone's looking at ya.

If you thought about killing someone in real life you wouldn't be able to live with that thought, it would drive you insane over time.

This is such bullshit, where do you get this stuff from? I've killed people in Afghanistan, and witnessed people killed, it doesn't haunt me whatsoever to this day, and I know lots of people who've come home from war without any problems from killing people. What most people i know have problems with however, is seeing civilians slaughtered or abused, and not being able to do a damn thing about it.

[CraigWazHere 7]

So you think insanity should be used in another way than to combat banditry? You must see the amount of players who hate unnecessary deaths all because of bandits, I'll think of ways to make it more atmospheric than punishing then... Remember that some items could influence your sanity and allow some bandits to carry on killing not worrying about sanity. Just give a few suggestions

[CraigWazHere 7]

First off, Use the search function, I've read at least 5 other threads suggesting the exact same thing.

Second, NO! As Jesquik states, banditry is a key component of this game. Without bandits, the game would be boring and you wouldn't feel the same paranoia when you move around never knowing if you're being followed or someone's looking at ya.

This is such bullshit, where do you get this stuff from? I've killed people in Afghanistan, and witnessed people killed, it doesn't haunt me whatsoever to this day, and I know lots of people who've come home from war without any problems from killing people. What most people i know have problems with however, is seeing civilians slaughtered or abused, and not being able to do a damn thing about it.

Fair enough. Idea is down the drain after 2 replies. No need to be a cunt about it.

Edit: This isn't to get rid of bandits, just to make bandits have to play in a completely different way from survivors. If I wanted bandits to be rid of I'd post a suggestion saying they should disable pvp.

Edited July 15, 2012 by CraigWazHere

[Gruelius 16]

your question is good your whole post $#@*# sucks..

to Riis: Yeah see thats the thing , the bandits we need to try and stop are the people who play dayz without consequences, e.g. just try get an enfield, sit somewhere high in a city and kill as many innocents as possible. The people that shit themselves and kill anyone they see because they shit themselves shouldnt be stopped.

But unfortunately i cant see this happening unless someone has a ripper of an idea. While you yourself said you have killed people (confirmed? just curious) and witnessed it, but if you were on a clock tower killing people that didnt seem to have any threat or civilians (torchlight carriers) i think you would be a little bit scarred, or a psychopath.

Then again its a sandbox so psychopaths would exist. And if you want to be a psychopath so be it!

id like to see hour or two hour death timers implemented, so if you die you dont get to respawn for 1-2 hours. Would force people to really think about what they are doing.. but would also allow griefers to troll entire servers.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Gruelius

[ydeco 0]

First off, Use the search function, I've read at least 5 other threads suggesting the exact same thing.

Second, NO! As Jesquik states, banditry is a key component of this game. Without bandits, the game would be boring and you wouldn't feel the same paranoia when you move around never knowing if you're being followed or someone's looking at ya.

This is such bullshit, where do you get this stuff from? I've killed people in Afghanistan, and witnessed people killed, it doesn't haunt me whatsoever to this day, and I know lots of people who've come home from war without any problems from killing people. What most people i know have problems with however, is seeing civilians slaughtered or abused, and not being able to do a damn thing about it.

How would killing innocent survivers be any different from killing civilians? These aren't soldiers who are out to shoot you or invade your countrie, just random people who are in the same shit as you.

[simonbenchapongwimon_7@hotmail.com 25]

Not one of these again.

No, just no. Anything that penalizes players for playing how THEY want to play is not the direction the game needs to go in.

To go completely backwards, why don't we start punishing players that kill zombies? Is that a bad idea because it infringes upon your style of gameplay?

Players are the ones who judge encounters with other people. If you feel threatened by anything, you've got two options, kill it or run away. That goes for any/all threats in the game. (zombies, players etc)

I can understand the frustration of players getting killed willy nilly, but at the end of the day, you have the same option to do so, even if you don't have the same resources.

These threads are always started by people who go to places like Cherno or Elektro and get ganked. Here's a tip: Go to smaller settlements that are inland to get your resources, don't hang about in one of the most PvP rife areas of the game then complain that Player killing is happening in a game that is half based around Player killing. (Survival of the fittest and all that jazz.)

[Riis 22]

How would killing innocent survivers be any different from killing civilians? These aren't soldiers who are out to shoot you or invade your countrie, just random people who are in the same shit as you.

I'm a bandit, I kill innocent survivors in game, because its about MY survival, and I know I'd do the same thing IRL. A human that wants to survive can do horrible things, because of the will to survive, you people need to remember that and not force a normal society's rules, laws and mindsets on this survival game...

EDIT: @ Gruelius, 1 confirmed, and 2 unconfirmed.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Riis

[simonbenchapongwimon_7@hotmail.com 25]

id like to see hour or two hour death timers implemented, so if you die you dont get to respawn for 1-2 hours. Would force people to really think about what they are doing.. but would also allow griefers to troll entire servers.

Anything that stops the game from being played is a bad idea in my opinion. Implementing a respawn timer that's longer than a couple of seconds is stupid. Why should players have to suffer that sort of "punishment" for dying?

[Evito 4]

The respawn timer would severely impact the scared cowardly survivor more than anyone else. It sure as hell wouldnt make me think twice about shooting the guy approaching my position without a way to avoid him seeing me.

I generally avoid contact with most people, i rob people sometimes when im moving in a group, sometimes we outright kill them if the risk is deemed unnecessarily high.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Please God Noooooo! I play as a survivor for the most part, so do bandits, they just have a more aggressive strategy.

Here's what I do when I get fed up with them:

Identify a group of bandits, this takes a lot of patience. Find a good spot and wait, a scope is usefull for this. Watch the behaviour carefully and it won't take long to find out if they're killing and robbing. Track them for as long as it takes. Usually they will lead you to their tents if they have some. Wait for them to drop off the gear and head off. Then rob the tents. Destroy anything you can't carry and even better come back with a vehicle and flatten the tents, it's very satisfying.

See, no need to mess with the gameplay mechanics, just a bit of imagination is all that's needed. The whole point of DayZ is that people play how they want. Fed up with snipers? There's ways of dealing with them too. I won't bore you with my technique for this but it involves smoke grenades and flanking.

If you come accross something in DayZ you don't like, half the fun is thinking of a strategy to deal with it. I don't like any of the suggestions that try to re-balance the game or punish a certain behaviour (unless it's cheating).

[CraigWazHere 7]

If the game is supposed to be hyper realistic. Mental health counts. Don't say it's punishing bandits, light shaking is fine, skins are fine. Murmuring is fine. Just keep on your drugs and the effects wear off temporarily. If you play a realistic game, you should probably agree that a normal person won't last mentally, just going around killing 10-25 people in an apocalypse. If the effects are too harsh, just suggest an alternative. Banditry is a good way to play the game but it is too common, it should be kept for the best of players with the cunning to play a good bandit. Instead of someone who'll just come up from behind, notice you have a decent bag and shoot you in the head.

[enforcer1975 1111]

07.15.2012 - 6 pvpers disegree to this.

[DancingBear 168]

As much as I hate unnecessary killing, this system is just too much, i could never accept it.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

If the game is supposed to be hyper realistic. Mental health counts. Don't say it's punishing bandits, light shaking is fine, skins are fine. Murmuring is fine. Just keep on your drugs and the effects wear off temporarily. If you play a realistic game, you should probably agree that a normal person won't last mentally, just going around killing 10-25 people in an apocalypse. If the effects are too harsh, just suggest an alternative. Banditry is a good way to play the game but it is too common, it should be kept for the best of players with the cunning to play a good bandit. Instead of someone who'll just come up from behind, notice you have a decent bag and shoot you in the head.

Your missing the point completely.

"it should be kept for the best of players". No.

Anyone can play how they want. If you don't like it you need to adapt. Fed up with bandits? Form a group and hunt them down. The game doesn't need to change, maybe your approach to playing it does.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Fraggle

[CraigWazHere 7]

Your missing the point completely.

How so?

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

It's just my opinion but I think what makes this game unique is the fact that there is no classes, no levelling and so on.

It leaves people completely free to create their own story. Anything that punishes/rewards a player for acting in a certain way hurts the simple game mechanic. If I choose to help someone, my reward is that I know I've helped them, or even better they may become a friend. If I choose to become a bandit then my experience of DayZ will be a pretty anti social one.

This game encourages imagination and problem solving. Eg. Take a look through the Bandit/survivor threads. People are already starting to form different groups with different goals. Theres a medical group offering their sevices for free on some servers. There's vigilante groups who make it there business to enforce a kind of law on other servers. It's because DayZ is so unrestrained with no guidance that people are taking it upon themselves to deal with any issues as they see fit.

I don't think we need any false gameplay mechanics to deal with banditry. Just a bit of imagination and a backpack full of ammo is all I need.

[East Clintwood 30]

Thread after thread you'd think people would get it.

Rocket has made it clear that he refuses to punish people for choosing one style of play over another. If you really have your heart set on reducing banditry, suggest ideas to encourage teamwork, not penalize playstyles.

[tofucake 6]

Mr. CraigWazHere, what you've just written is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Edited July 15, 2012 by tofucake

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Mr. CraigWazHere, what you've just written is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

He's just making a suggestion, in the suggestion area. That's what it's for.

Add something usefull or fuck off.

[Ultenth 12]

Sorry, but mental health doesn't work that way. Mafioso kill people all the time for trivial reasons IRL (not just taking that info from movies btw) and can still lead fairly "normal" lives otherwise. It doesn't inhibit them physicially, if anything it even makes them more predatory and dangerous. Sorry, the system is "gamey" and doesn't have a real-world mirror that is close enough to explain it's existence.

Players need help creating their own in-game solutions to banditry, not some faux system that is forced upon them by the game and would never exist in real life.

[Unyaro (DayZ) 4]

Agreed, the system is too harsh, but for all those saying that people shouldn't be penalized for playing the way they want...Survivors get penalized by bandits existence, banditry is far too easy and far too rewarding for the amount of risk involved. Being a bandit is actually more beneficial then just being a survivor.

1.You get to sit on the outskirts of a town, so little to no risk of zombies.

2. Players approaching your position make noise while you make none as you're sitting there not moving, thus giving you an awareness of someone trying to flank/find bandits

3. You do not need to scrounge for supplies as you can simply kill players and steal all their work(meaning less risk of encountering zombies and getting shot by other bandits/survivors)

That's 3 benefits to being a bandit, while bandits can also play like survivors whenever they want, thus meaning they suffer 0 penalties for their actions.

Perhaps the better way of going about it if you don't want to penalize bandits is to reward survivors? But something needs to be done, because bandits have a clear advantage at this time as a playstyle, and those that are just trying to grief and troll are doing just that(barely playing the actual game anymore).

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Agreed, the system is too harsh, but for all those saying that people shouldn't be penalized for playing the way they want...Survivors get penalized by bandits existence, banditry is far too easy and far too rewarding for the amount of risk involved. Being a bandit is actually more beneficial then just being a survivor.

1.You get to sit on the outskirts of a town, so little to no risk of zombies.

2. Players approaching your position make noise while you make none as you're sitting there not moving, thus giving you an awareness of someone trying to flank/find bandits

3. You do not need to scrounge for supplies as you can simply kill players and steal all their work(meaning less risk of encountering zombies and getting shot by other bandits/survivors)

That's 3 benefits to being a bandit, while bandits can also play like survivors whenever they want, thus meaning they suffer 0 penalties for their actions.

Perhaps the better way of going about it if you don't want to penalize bandits is to reward survivors? But something needs to be done, because bandits have a clear advantage at this time as a playstyle, and those that are just trying to grief and troll are doing just that(barely playing the actual game anymore).

Your right that being a bandit is possibly more logical if you want to accumulate loot or murders. Luckily, people play for many different reasons and that's why DaZ is thriving.

At the risk of repeating myself, if you get fed up with bandits, do something about it. The mechanics are already in the game to allow you to do this. Join a group, start a group go it alone, take the bandits on, it's up to you.

A lot of people that get fed up with bandits insist on repeatedly going to Cherno or Electro and have never seen half of the map. If I spent all my time in Cherno, I'd get fed up with being shot too. The game is what you make of it and gives you more freedom than any AAA rpg out there. I think some people are just so used to having their hand held or guided down a path by a narrative that they find it uncomfortable.

[enforcer1975 1111]

Most bandit players are already self sufficient and actually don't need the loot or weapons of their victim, killing for ammo is also no reason, you can just DC and come back for the time beeing.

Most of the bandits i came across dropped a high powered rifle, a pistol, a full set of belt items, a ruck filled with....another rifle, another pistol...lots of ammo...some food/drinks, medical equipment, a ghille, nvg.

With this kind of equipment and nothing else to do you can become bored really easy so the only thing to turn to is to kill other players regardless of their status. Happened in Sahrani Life, happens in Chernarus Life, happens here and in every game where players are fed up and have nothing else to do.