Staff: Need clarification on ban-able offenses

[Magotchi 74]

I believe admins violating their agreement with the DayZ team, and making a worse overall experience for DayZ as a whole, is worse than players DC-ing to avoid death.

However, DC-ing to avoid death is indeed a major problem, it needs to be resolved, the devs. have said they're working on it, and hopefully they'll have a solution soon.

[AllDayZSimon 75]

I believe admins violating their agreement with the DayZ team, and making a worse overall experience for DayZ as a whole, is worse than players DC-ing to avoid death.

However, DC-ing to avoid death is indeed a major problem, it needs to be resolved, the devs. have said they're working on it, and hopefully they'll have a solution soon.

An agreement/terms don't really mean anything if they just quick-edit them in. (Again, IE: -Battle-eye must be enabled).

Now I'm not saying that having battleye off is a good idea - But the whole "There are rules you agreed to" arguement flies out of the window when rules are made up after the fact.

Now if a Dev were to just say one line of text;

"If you are caught exploiting (Whether it be spawning gear, ESP or Disconnecting to cheat death, you will be banned. You may file your ban appeal in the ban appeal forum"

I'd bet it lowers it's consistancy. But instead they've said "No, don't do anything about them because we'll fix it eventually". As far as I recall, since I joined these forums I've heard of disconnecting issues that -Still- haven't been resolved. What has happened? Hundreds of "ROCKET SAID" posts, however many patches including a beta patch for BE. Modifying of rules so that the people actually paying money have no seperate rights than a freebie. (Not saying they get all these super rights, but why should someone pay to run a server for you - When you're the only one who gets to admin it?

And no I don't mean "Oh herp derp he killed me BAN!"

I mean more on the;

"Oh I killed that guy"

*Makes way to corpse*

"..Where the hell is he-"

*Bang*

Shot from a location they should have never made it to.

What's the difference between Alt-F4 to avoid dying, and Alt-F4 to be a dick?

That dick rejoins the same server he just quit instead of moving onto one of the other of thousands out there, just so he can kill his would-be killer.

Edited July 18, 2012 by AllDayZSimon

[Magotchi 74]

But the whole "There are rules you agreed to" arguement flies out of the window when rules are made up after the fact.

It doesn't. Server operators agreed to follow the rules the DayZ team set. They didn't agree to only follow the rules that existed at the time.

[Adron 42]

12 people banned this week and not one of them went crying.

something tells me that I'm doing it right.

[AllDayZSimon 75]

It doesn't. Server operators agreed to follow the rules the DayZ team set. They didn't agree to only follow the rules that existed at the time.

Yes, the rules they set - Not the ones they are going to come up with next friday.

Obviously this exploit needs to be fixed. I'll try to add something ASAP, its probably not going to be perfect on the first implementation but we'll try something and see how it works.

Posted May-01.

So, it takes two months + to fix this issue - But inbetween you get a bunch of useless updates to battleye/server rules? You'd think a gamebreaking ability would take priority over having battle-eye enabled when it appearantly doesn't catch half the nuking/spawning that happens.

Edited July 18, 2012 by AllDayZSimon

[Adron 42]

i'm gonna put money on this thread getting locked too.. but its ok, i still got my beans :P

[Magotchi 74]

You'd think a gamebreaking ability would take priority over having battle-eye enabled when it appearantly doesn't catch half the nuking/spawning that happens.

I don't look gift horses in the mouth.

[AllDayZSimon 75]

I don't look gift horses in the mouth.

You appearantly don't look at youtube evidence of this happening either.

[Adron 42]

I don't look gift horses in the mouth.

I would normally say: "No, but you do look like one"

But instead I'm just going to give you the orange kool-aid and turn my inner-troll off.

edit: I don't think mister magotchi got it the first time:

Edited July 18, 2012 by Adron

[Magotchi 74]

You appearantly don't look at youtube evidence of this happening either.

YouTube evidence of the developer's not creating a solution to prevent people from DC-ing to avoid death? What are you talking about?

I would normally say: "No, but you do look like one"

But instead I'm just going to give you the orange kool-aid and turn my inner-troll off.

(me playing Adron): I would insult you by [insults you in process of describing insult], but I'm better than that.

Great logic.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Mister_Magotchi

[Adron 42]

YouTube evidence of the developer's not creating a solution to prevent people from DC-ing to avoid death? What are you talking about?

(me playing Adron): I would insult you by [insults you in process of describing insult], but I'm better than that.

Great logic.

its ok, i fixed it for you.

[AllDayZSimon 75]

YouTube evidence of the developer's not creating a solution to prevent people from DC-ing to avoid death? What are you talking about?

Evidence of nukes, spawning, hacking, ESP, Disconnectors, no-tree/building modified files - The list goes on.

But instead, their time seems to be more pushed towards "Don't let admins handle the problem and use the unban forum as it was ment to be used!" and moreso "We're working on it so don't do anything.." with no real progress to be shown. The fact that shit like this still goes on ingame is proof of that.

And if the problem is "Oh admins abuse"

Let those abusive admins be as exposed as the people currently cheating the system because there aren't rules regarding the cheat for the public like there are rules for admins in regards to handling the situation.

Let me just say thing last bit, Edited in by the way -

There are more rules that Admins have to follow, than the freebies that join their servers.

Edited July 18, 2012 by AllDayZSimon

[Magotchi 74]

AllDayZSimon: It doesn't seem like you understand the English/Latin idiom, "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth." What I mean is that I don't expect anything out of the DayZ team, as I've given them nothing in return for such an expectation. DayZ is 100% free, and nothing obligates me to operate a DayZ server. I did however agree to follow the rules they make if I'm to use their hive and listing services, as did all server operators.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Mister_Magotchi

[AllDayZSimon 75]

AllDayZSimon: It doesn't seem like you understand the English idiom, "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth." What I mean is that I don't expect anything out of the DayZ team, as I've given them nothing in return for such an expectation. DayZ is 100% free, and nothing obligates me to operate a DayZ server. I did however agree to follow the rules they make if I'm to use their hive and listing services, as did all server operators.

The DayZ team isn't the one providing you the game.

The people paying their own money to provide the mod a server are.

But people don't understand that, instead they spit on the admins with "Rocket said no rules!".

Edit: Or better yet, "Rocket/Dayz Staff said ____". Giving them a feeling of lawlessness - And if that's the point, then why even enforce hackers if there isn't going to be anything but "THIS ADMIN ABUSES AND BANNED ME, BLACK LIST HIM" threads? Shit if that was the case, I'd invite hackers into my server because "Rocket and them say I can't do anything about it". Feel free to burn elektro/nuke all the players on the server - All I can do is write a ticket because I'm not getting blacklisted, etc.

Edited July 18, 2012 by AllDayZSimon

[Magotchi 74]

Nobody is forcing anyone to operate DayZ servers, but to use the official DayZ hive and be listed on the official server list, server operators had to agree to follow the rules the DayZ team set.

[AllDayZSimon 75]

Nobody is forcing anyone to operate DayZ servers, but to use the official DayZ hive and be listed on the official server list, server operators had to agree to follow the rules the DayZ team set.

Again, the rules they set. Not the ones they plan to set.

If they plan to modify their rules, they should do it when the server lease is up - Giving players time to back out and say "No, I don't agree to these new terms" and not have to change their server mid-month just because of one sentence on the forums - Locking them into an already paid for server.

Edited July 18, 2012 by AllDayZSimon

[Magotchi 74]

While I concede that the tense of the word "set" can be ambiguous, the way I used it every time above, I meant it in the indefinite (basically present) sense.

I also believe that's the usage they intended in the welcome email (among other places):

Important: You must follow the servername convention and all rules set by DayZ, failure to do so will result in your server hosting abilities being revoked and your IP blacklisted.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Mister_Magotchi

[AllDayZSimon 75]

While I concede that the tense of the word "set" can be ambiguous, the way I used it every time above, I meant it in the indefinite (basically present) sense.

I also believe that's the usage they intended in the welcome email (among other places):

And instead of talking to the hosts themselves about the issues, they go behind their back to their hosting companies and demand they don't let them do things. For a game that's about "not restricting your play type", there are alot of shady hinderances occuring.

[Magotchi 74]

If the DayZ team made an agreement with some hosting providers that they only host rule-following servers, and a server operator in-turn agreed to their host's policy on the matter, I see no problem with DayZ notifying the host, and the host cancelling the server operator's service. That's been the case as I've so far seen it in the forums.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Mister_Magotchi

[Bonik 0]

What I am noticing here is the thing that most people have been trying to make along the lines of Adron, AllDayZSimon and a few others I have read, the thing you,Mister_Magotchi, are not quite grasping (trolling aside) is to think critically. I don't want to paraphrase this article so I will simply leave the link here: http://www.eatyourcareer.com/2011/11/why-blindly-following-rules-mistake/ .

[acebane 268]

Well, isn't this a shit storm. Point is, exploiters/dupers/"hackers" (they don't deserve the title but eh) are ruining gameplay for Day Z. Now you may say, "you admins not following da rules be ruining diz community moar". Well to you I say, I'd prefer to play alongside an asshole admin who abuses his privileges and in which case I can appeal the ban/report him to Day Z staff. Opposed to the hacker who has unlimited ammo, cannot be killed and teleports behind everyone and kills them just for the lols with his AS50(This just happened recently on the server I host).

Public relations and community member banning/unbanning can all be dealt with logically and in a fixed location (forums). Where as cheaters who play the game CANNOT be reasoned with at all because they love to see the world burn and can easily conceal their identities by changing profile names. I cannot tell you how frustrating it is to throw my hands up in the air and say, "I hope Battle Eye gets them next time". Now you may argue that, "hey mr. acebane, u r a fat noob n u obviously don't know how to check ur 1 GB + script log file." Well you're kind of right, considering this is my first time owning a server, I pretty much lack the know how of how to deal with hackers aside from BANNING THEM. Problem is with that, I can't ban anyone neither because it's almost IMPOSSIBLE to get 100% legit proof of someone doing it. I can make judgement calls based on instinct, but we all know that sometimes our instincts are wrong.

So we're at a stand still - can't ban people (1. because IDK who it was and 2. it's against Day Z's rules apparently), can't stop cheaters. What do us server hosts who spend 40-100 bucks a month on a server do? Throw your hands up and pray they move to another server by the end of the night. What's the possible solution? Hell, if I know. All I can think of is a better cheat detection, a cheater detective that goes and checks server logs for known cheating scripts, or admins just start banning anyone they believe is involved in suspicious activity. All of which are rather half-arsed solutions.

So just band together as a community, play Day Z, enjoy your time while there are no hackers/exploiters present and log off at the end of the night.

PS. It would be amazing for Day Z staff to somehow stop duping/death dodging/ghosting. Let's hope they can do it!

Edited July 18, 2012 by Acebane

[jskibo 143]

Do what you can on your servers to stop the cheaters, exploiters, hackers, scripters or whatever you want to call them.

All the threat of blacklisting for that is as hollow as their promises to fix the exploits.

What's the worst possible case as a hacker being banned? They lose $25 and have to buy a new game

What's the worst possible case for an admin for being banned? I save $100 a month, don't have to spend time going through logs or looking on the forums to see if there are issues?

Seems like its a win for the admin / owners out there. I can go back to ARMA2......

.......or better yet, play on some other pour souls server.....

Edited July 18, 2012 by jskibo

[jetao2008@hotmail.com 175]

What I really don't get is why people are so against admins banning people for this.

Right or wrong aside; what's the big deal? Why do the opposition care?

The admin has a vested interest in keeping their server relatively "exploit" free and a fun place for people to play. So ofcourse they will have their own opinion. But why do people against it care if other admins do it? What effect does it have on them?

Just curious.

Do you think all admins are like that?

For how long do you think everything will be fine until A LOT of admins start banning people because they got killed, or a member of their clan got killed, and they're just mad about it?

This happens even in a big game like Battlefield 3, and in every game with community hosted servers. That's why i love the idea about studio hosted servers, even though i don't think it would be possible to do this in DayZ.

Anyway, there's a lot of good admins out there, i know that, but also know that some people just forget that admins are actually regular people, and they start to act like dictators in their own server banning and kicking people whenever the players do something that upsets them, that's why i think the control should stay on the developer's hand and his team, so they can actually see for themselves what action should be taken against a player accused from hacking.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Fenrig

[jetao2008@hotmail.com 175]

#Sorry, this post can be deleted, my internet lagged and i posted the same thing more than once.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Fenrig

[jetao2008@hotmail.com 175]

#Sorry, this post can be deleted, my internet lagged and i posted the same thing more than once.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Fenrig