Magotchi 74 Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) Dekey:It isn't different. Admins ban on their own personal experiences, based on what they see in the game. What they see are their direct encounters with other players and what the logs tell them. They have tunnel-vision in that regard, especially with regard to DC-ing to avoid death, as they'll likely only ban people that do it to them in the game. They also generally have zero proof that the opponent left the game on purpose to avoid death. The person could have had connection/hardware problems, or the player could have teleported away (which would cause the admin to potentially ban anyone else they see disconnecting around that time), and without nametags, it's even more difficult to know which player you're dealing with. Someone disconnecting around the time you see a player disappear in front of you is circumstantial evidence; it's not conclusive. Edited July 17, 2012 by Mister_Magotchi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magotchi 74 Posted July 17, 2012 Doesn't it seem like they should be paying YOU for that service? I mean I doubt people become CIs for the government "Just to help out"..You're not obligated to host a DayZ server, but when you do host one, you agree to abide by the rules set by the DayZ team. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dekey (DayZ) 31 Posted July 17, 2012 Yep I only do it if it happens to me, because then I have sufficient evidence to action them. If they were so coincidently inconvenienced by an outage or something. They can make a post on the ban appeals forum where I will read it, give them the benefit of the doubt in the 1st occasion and reinstate their access.No harm done.Now those that continue to do it, or simply accept that they got caught out, will no longer be able to access the server. Surely that's good news for all right? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AllDayZSimon 75 Posted July 17, 2012 You're not obligated to host a DayZ server, but when you do host one, you agree to abide by the rules set by the DayZ team.The rule system is horrendous.When they add rules the day something goes wrong, and wait weeks to reply on issues such as ghosting."I'll rent you this car, but you have to pick up any hitch hiker you see""I picked up a hitch hiker who stabbed me in the gut, so I kicked him out of my car!""You can't do that, I'm taking your car back." 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dekey (DayZ) 31 Posted July 17, 2012 Ok I hand over my "terrible metaphor crown" to AllDayZSimon. ;p 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magotchi 74 Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) Yep I only do it if it happens to me, because then I have sufficient evidence to action them.Again, you don't have sufficient evidence, as I explained.Also, the important point of discussion is not about this particular rule, but that the rules should be universally followed, as all server operators have agreed to follow them."I'll rent you this car, but you have to pick up any hitch hiker you see""I picked up a hitch hiker who stabbed me in the gut, so I kicked him out of my car!""You can't do that, I'm taking your car back."This would make sense if what went on in your rental car affected all the other cars the company rented. Edited July 17, 2012 by Mister_Magotchi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AllDayZSimon 75 Posted July 17, 2012 Again, you don't have sufficient evidence, as I explained.Also, the important point of discussion is not about this particular rule, but that the rules should be universally followed, as all server operators have agreed to follow them.This would make sense if what went on in your rental car affected all the other cars the company rented.So you can ban someone for malicious talk, but not malicious acts?So basically the admins green-lighted every single player to Alt-F4 by saying "Nah, we won't ban you for it. We just trust you won't abuse it". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magotchi 74 Posted July 17, 2012 That's not their official position, as of right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dekey (DayZ) 31 Posted July 17, 2012 I have evidence enough for it to be beyond reasonable doubt, and as stated, they get a second chance if they appeal.As for the rules. I feel this particular one is misguided, protects the wrong people and hasn't entirely been thought out. Let's remember these guys are developers. I am in no way slighting them when I say this and am making an assumption, but I imagine persistant world moderation isn't something they are substantially familiar with. I on the other hand have had a career in such for many years now so I am quite comfortable with making a judgement call on it.The way I see it: If I can justify my actions to those that are at liberty to question them, I'm comfortable doing that which I feel is correct.I appreciate you disagree entirely and appear to have some personal crusade to correct our terrible, rule-neglecting actions so I will call you out.I am Dekey, I host LU99 and I ban players if they DC on me during pvp engagements.Feel free to bring the attention of the DayZ staff to that statement and I will accept whatever recourse they feel nessecary. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magotchi 74 Posted July 17, 2012 No sense in reinventing the wheel with more discussion:I can't wait to see these renegade admins get their servers blacklisted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dekey (DayZ) 31 Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) No sense in reinventing the wheel with more discussion:I can't wait to see these renegade admins get their servers blacklisted.Yeah because having significantly less servers to play on would be a great thing for the ever-growing community... Edited July 17, 2012 by Dekey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AllDayZSimon 75 Posted July 17, 2012 I can't wait to see these renegade admins get their servers blacklisted.And I can't wait to see all these players getting global banned for exploting and the threads that will follow titled something like; "I got banned by an abusive admin" or "I got banned, I dunno why". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Adron 42 Posted July 17, 2012 fuck it, official position or not i'm still doing it because your hope and dream of them blacklisting me is a bigger pipe to be dreaming than them fixing it any time soon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magotchi 74 Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) Yeah because having significantly less servers to play on would be a great thing for the ever-growing community...All servers not following rules their operators agreed to, and therefore breaking the cohesion of the game, being blacklisted, would be great for the community.And I can't wait to see all these players getting global banned for exploting and the threads that will follow titled something like; "I got banned by an abusive admin" or "I got banned, I dunno why".I agree completely.fuck it, official position or not i'm still doing it because your hope and dream of them blacklisting me is a bigger pipe to be dreaming than them fixing it any time soon.I hope you're wrong. Edited July 17, 2012 by Mister_Magotchi 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AllDayZSimon 75 Posted July 17, 2012 fuck it, official position or not i'm still doing it because your hope and dream of them blacklisting me is a bigger pipe to be dreaming than them fixing it any time soon.People would rather have your server black listed for handling exploiters than deal with the exploiters themselves.It's only a matter of time before - Like rocket said since everyone just LOVES quoting the guy."I'd rather the game be the death of itself.." (Loose quote). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Adron 42 Posted July 17, 2012 besides, Ander locking a thread that shows MASSIVE community support for admins banning DCers only shows that Ander knows they are wrong and doesn't want this to gain more traction, and doesn't want more server admins to be swayed into doing so because they aren't going to blacklist, they haven't, and they know it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dekey (DayZ) 31 Posted July 17, 2012 Well Mr Magoo or whatever your name is. I've exhausted my reasoning patience for the evening so I will leave you with my call out and wish you luck in your vendetta.Enjoy! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magotchi 74 Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) It's not a vendetta, as nobody's wronged me. I'm just supporting the developers and advocating we respect the agreements we've made with them by hosting DayZ servers. Edited July 17, 2012 by Mister_Magotchi 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AllDayZSimon 75 Posted July 17, 2012 Fact is, admins - Sure they can abuse - But guess what, that's not the problem.Admins kick/ban "Abuse", because players are script/exploit abusing.And an abusive admin - Oh no this guys never going to get reported! Take a look in the ban appeals and cheating threads, 50/52 of those are reports like "I don't know if it was the admin..But..___", if they're reporting people thinking it "MIGHT" be an admin, they're sure as fuck going to report a REAL admin abuse. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deviant (DayZ) 43 Posted July 17, 2012 Do what dev members say. I don't know why people argue the rules. If you don't like it, there are many other games out there for you. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AllDayZSimon 75 Posted July 17, 2012 Do what dev members say. I don't know why people argue the rules. If you don't like it, there are many other games out there for you.And none of them are run by the development team with an iron fist. "You don't like it, leave!" - I'm sure that's already happened since there are ALOT of private hives - And I'd guess it's because of responses like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magotchi 74 Posted July 17, 2012 IMO, more power to them if they want to use a private hive. That's a lot better than them negatively affecting the one I use. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AllDayZSimon 75 Posted July 17, 2012 IMO, more power to them if they want to use a private hive. That's a lot better than them negatively affecting the one I use.More so than the people who pk anyone at any chance they get - Yet alt-f4/lobby when they get shot/spotted? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magotchi 74 Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) I don't understand your question. What are you implying I think is "more so" than what you're talking about, and in what regard? Edited July 18, 2012 by Mister_Magotchi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AllDayZSimon 75 Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) I don't understand your question. What are you implying I think is "more so" than what you're talking about, and in what regard?What do you think is worse, admins banning people for exploiting? Or the people Exploiting?Because it would seem that the majority are on the exploiters side saying that the admins are breaking rules, but these people aren't because there is no "NO ALT-F4" rule like there is the only two kick reason rule. Edited July 18, 2012 by AllDayZSimon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
