Is losing everything... Enough?

[Deuzerre 64]

I don't know if you missunderstood my point or if you offered an alternative, but: I was not talking about amount of time played or anything other than just when you respawn, you spawn in the next instance of the world. Sort of like a playlist but with the instances having cooldowns so you can't respawn repeatedly and rapidly and get back to playing an instance you recently left.

Your idea, if I understood it correctly, is having the instances based on how long you played. You are also confusing instances with servers, and you are suggesting that these "servers" be different in what loot spawns to give a sense of progression? No offence, but I'm not liking it. It would mean that new players can't meet with older players and constant/lasting "progression" isn't anywhere near what Rocket wants for the mod, apart from that he wants us to build and change the world (organizing the environment, really).

I was proposing an alternative, and yes, possibly instances (I'm familiar with the terminology) but due to the game's mechanic, I don't think it's possible to have two parallel instances in the same server, or server size would have to be drastically reduced. Only two levels would exist: Over one day old, and below one day old. Not an incredible amount of different levels. Just a difference for freshly spawned guys that get limited (Possibly on an other smaller island?) gameplay. Yoiu die, you end up in that low value, low loot area as punishment.

[Lukio (DayZ) 24]

acording to rocket, player skills/traits will be added in, you can specilize in being a doctor, or engineer, the better you are the more you can do, the more importent you become, and when you die, you lose all of that progress.

Not sure if thats what Rocket was talking about, its was more along the lines that skills that the player has should transfer to abilities in the game i.e as in navigating by the stars in RL is possible in the game as well.

Anyway - Dying does not have many consequences except loosing gear, sometimes it reminds me of Everquest where you just do a corpse run. Maybe its the issue that players aren't too attached to their equipment anyway so loosing it in the event of death just is a small bump, nothing to be sad or grieve about. Looking about how emotional gameplay sometimes can be its funny that death is completely disconnected.

[SGTFledge 43]

Look, death should definitely hold more meaning in this way, but let's go about the smart way on making that so.

I agree with the posters saying MILITARY GRADE WEAPONS should be rarer. NVGs, range finders, all that stuff should be rare, ammo included. However, this IS a Post-Soviet bloc nation, so the AK variants should be slightly more common, just slightly, so that finding an M16 is more world-rocking than finding an AKM. However, ammo should be scarce, not so that picking up the weapon is a waste of time, but rather just enough to provide a glimmer of hope that the next loot location you go to with a chance for that type of ammo is worth the risk of going there. Bottom line is: finding good military grade stuff should be something that makes you bolder or more of a recluse because of how rare that stuff is.

I also agree that civilian weapons should be more common. While the Winchester, in real life, isn't a damn shotgun, it's still a civilian weapon and should be more common like double barrels, Makarovs, Enfields, M1911s, etc, etc. There should be, perhaps, more civilian weapons with advantages and disadvantages. I'm still waiting for my Mosin-Nagant.

HOWEVER, I disagree with those saying you should be locked out for a certain amount of time after dying. That isn't making death a tragedy, that's is making it all out goddamn annoying. Death should be frustrating: it should remind you like a hammer coming down onto an anvil that YOU just FUCKED UP and LOST EVERYTHING. All that RARE stuff is gone. Gone.

And there's less an a one percent chance of finding it again. Time limits after death make that just pointless, because you're not frustrated and willing to jump back in, thinking of where to go, how to face any players on the way, progressively thinking of the path you're going to take to maximize your gains with minimum risk, thinking of whether you'll actually brave Cherno and Elektro. No, instead you're stuck looking at a damn timer, thinking of how you'll be busy playing ANOTHER game. Now, I understand some of you might be fine with a thirty minute timer. That could work for the hardcore crowd, but DayZ just hit 500,000 user.

Let that sink in. 500,000, half a million, user. How many of those aren't vocal on the forums? How many of those just play casually and whatnot? How many of those would say "This isn't worth it" and just go to something else because of a measly thirty minute timer after death? Now, this idea of server levers just reeks. No server admin in their right mind-correction, no server owner in their right mind would agree to it, especially the clanners and those who have groups, time, items, and KILLS invested in those servers. It would make things far more complicated than they are, and would just add more complaints and trouble to the mod, no matter what stage it's at

Weapon and gear loot chances are where to start. Death timer and server levels aren't.

A lot of good ideas, though. Very glad to see we got people actively thinking about this in the forums.

[athrins 39]

I was proposing an alternative, and yes, possibly instances (I'm familiar with the terminology) but due to the game's mechanic, I don't think it's possible to have two parallel instances in the same server, or server size would have to be drastically reduced. Only two levels would exist: Over one day old, and below one day old. Not an incredible amount of different levels. Just a difference for freshly spawned guys that get limited (Possibly on an other smaller island?) gameplay. Yoiu die, you end up in that low value, low loot area as punishment.

Still not really along the design philosophy of this mod. Unrealistic progression is there to balance a game; something Rocket very clearly stated he does not intend to pursue. Your idea is therefore not an alternative to mine. My suggestion was to make death work more in the way it is intended: each time you spawn, you are a whole new person with no prior knowledge of the world you are in and there is no foreseeable repeatable path you can take every respawn to get gear.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Athrins

[Paraguin 1]

You paid for this game, yes, but we're not talking about this game. We're talking about this mod: the thing you haven't payed a cent for.

While that is true, I did by the game specifically for this mod and while that may not be the case for everyone I know there are quite a few people out there that did the same thing. Even still, would you actually like being perma banned from playing DayZ because you died? I don't see how anyone can honestly believe that perma ban from DayZ cause of death is a good idea. Call me ignorant if you like but if you really think thats something DayZ should do than you are an idiot.

[opticalshadow 27]

Not sure if thats what Rocket was talking about, its was more along the lines that skills that the player has should transfer to abilities in the game i.e as in navigating by the stars in RL is possible in the game as well.

Anyway - Dying does not have many consequences except loosing gear, sometimes it reminds me of Everquest where you just do a corpse run. Maybe its the issue that players aren't too attached to their equipment anyway so loosing it in the event of death just is a small bump, nothing to be sad or grieve about. Looking about how emotional gameplay sometimes can be its funny that death is completely disconnected.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/520-the-pvp-discussion-thread/page__st__540#entry9092

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/520-the-pvp-discussion-thread/page__st__540#entry9070

there are a few others and 2 interviews in which he talks abotu this on the thread

[Paraguin 1]

When you die in DayZ it should void your CD key.

1 life, that's it.

Are you serious? 1 life and your done for good? So tell me... who is going to play the game when everyone dies? There are only so many people that play the game as is... Do you think everyone will cough up another 30 bucks for a CD key every time they die?

[athrins 39]

http://dayzmod.com/f...__540#entry9092

http://dayzmod.com/f...__540#entry9070

there are a few others and 2 interviews in which he talks abotu this on the thread

His posts does not necessarily indicate XP points or anything like that. TBH I'm quite sure what he means is that you will for example get stronger and more durable the more you run around, lift heavy objects, etc.

Maybe that was what you were trying to say from the start, but I read your post like "Rocket will implement an XP talent system, ala WoW", which is not the case, I'm sure.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Athrins

[maccoy 0]

less of everything.....

especially ammo...

[Lukio (DayZ) 24]

Weapon and gear loot chances are where to start. Death timer and server levels aren't.

A lot of good ideas, though. Very glad to see we got people actively thinking about this in the forums.

Yeah a death timer per se isn't really good at creating emotions except indicating its time to take a bio break or grab a pizza, I acknowledge that. What I am missing is feeling connected enough to your character to actually be bothered by seeing it die. This is not an easy task to accomplish, maybe rolling his "diary" (when something like this gets introduced) would be something interesting, some kind of reflexion about the past of your character that just died, of the events that occurred during the survival attempt.

[athrins 39]

Yeah a death timer per se isn't really good at creating emotions except indicating its time to take a bio break or grab a pizza, I acknowledge that. What I am missing is feeling connected enough to your character to actually be bothered by seeing it die. This is not an easy task to accomplish, maybe rolling his "diary" (when something like this gets introduced) would be something interesting, some kind of reflexion about the past of your character that just died, of the events that occurred during the survival attempt.

That is an interesting idea. Auto-diary, which can also be read by others who find it on your corpse to make them feel a bit more.. emotional about having killed someone. This combined with perhaps a way to customize your character (appearance as well as backstory and name, etc) at a fresh respawn would create a strong sense of unique identity for every new spawn and you are likely to feel more attached. Bandits would also be more aware of what they are doing do a person when killing him/her (since they would also have to create a new identity when spawning).

Edited July 14, 2012 by Athrins

[peliluola@gmail.com 28]

When you die in DayZ it should void your CD key.

1 life, that's it.

*Gets killed by a door*

D'OH! :D

[opticalshadow 27]

His posts does not necessarily indicate XP points or anything like that. TBH I'm quite sure what he means is that you will for example get stronger and more durable the more you run around, lift heavy objects, etc.

Maybe that was what you were trying to say from the start, but I read your post like "Rocket will implement an XP talent system, ala WoW", which is not the case, I'm sure.

no what i read is he mentioning specifically things liek engineering improving over time and all progress lost of death. because thats literally what he said. i didnt say youd get a talent tree, or xp point anywhere, i mearly said that you would have skilsl that improve as you use them, and lose when you die.

[goose8 2]

I'm all for dramatically increasing the rarity of firearms and their accompanying ammunition, especially military grade weapons.

The OP touched upon something which I feel has gone overlooked in this thread, and that is weapon reliability. Civilian owned weapons can often be ill-treated and therefore prone to failure, while the opposite is true for military weapons found in bases and/or encampments, and I feel the game should reflect this. A weapon degredation and accompanying repair system tied to weapon maintenance would fit this game quite well. Add weapon cleaning kits with limited uses to the loot, and enforce their use to ensure sustained performance from your firearm. Add in weapon repair parts (or kits, for simplicity) for each firearm as they will degrade until unsuable but regular maintenance prolongs this.

Also, the Balota airfield should be made entirely civilian.

[athrins 39]

no what i read is he mentioning specifically things liek engineering improving over time and all progress lost of death. because thats literally what he said. i didnt say youd get a talent tree, or xp point anywhere, i mearly said that you would have skilsl that improve as you use them, and lose when you die.

You were talking about specializing and character skills/traits. To me that sounded like distributing points in specialized areas. That is not Rocket's intent from what I gathered. But I misunderstood you.

Just want to reiterate: He said he wants IRL skills to matter and your character to grow during its life (be it in strength or ability to handle a weapon). Your character won't magically become a Rocket scientist and be able to build a starship just because you put some points into it. <- Sorry, I just had to ridicule it because I find it amusing when people want these things added--not directed at you.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Athrins

[Falcone0 0]

Are you serious? 1 life and your done for good? So tell me... who is going to play the game when everyone dies? There are only so many people that play the game as is... Do you think everyone will cough up another 30 bucks for a CD key every time they die?

F2P model - $5 for 30 lives?

I bet thats how the marketing ppl will see it..................

[athrins 39]

F2P model - $5 for 30 lives?

I bet thats how the marketing ppl will see it..................

Brilliant...

Honestly, I really think so.

Buuut... won't work because of the amount of complains there will be about losing money to griefers or bugs.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Athrins

[opticalshadow 27]

You were talking about specializing and character skills/traits. To me that sounded like distributing points in specialized areas. That is not Rocket's intent from what I gathered. But I misunderstood you.

Just want to reiterate: He said he wants IRL skills to matter and your character to grow during its life (be it in strength or ability to handle a weapon). Your character won't magically become a Rocket scientist and be able to build a starship just because you put some points into it. <- Sorry, I just had to ridicule it because I find it amusing when people want these things added--not directed at you.

well i did not intend to be understood liek that. and while he did say he want IRL skill to matter, he also said there would be progression on characters lost on death, as an insentive to group and survive together.

[phil 103]

There are lots of hackers and people who dupe (it can happen accidentally too). When it's out of alpha, I hope military weapons become much rarer.

[Deuzerre 64]

That is an interesting idea. Auto-diary, which can also be read by others who find it on your corpse to make them feel a bit more.. emotional about having killed someone. This combined with perhaps a way to customize your character (appearance as well as backstory and name, etc) at a fresh respawn would create a strong sense of unique identity for every new spawn and you are likely to feel more attached. Bandits would also be more aware of what they are doing do a person when killing him/her (since they would also have to create a new identity when spawning).

I'm also in favor of this. A list of events (15/07/2012; 1:50 AM: Found an ATV near Staroye. 2:10 AM: Replaced my double barreled shotgun with a Lee Enfield. Killed a survivor around x. Killed a bandit in x...) would make you realise what you've done in this life, remember how it all happened.

I'm sure it would be worth a try as soon as possible. Sure, some people might still find ways to hop and other stupid ways, but overall it might just change a bit of the gameplay, and the attachement to your characters.

Loot tables tweaks FTW!

[Paraguin 1]

Brilliant...

Honestly, I really think so.

Buuut... won't work because of the amount of complains there will be about losing money to griefers or bugs.

I could see that working only after they fixed all the serious bugs. I wouldn't like it cause I don't want dayz to become another pay to play game but I can see that idea working much better then the previous idiotic idea of perma ban on 1 death.

[todayshero 1]

When you die in DayZ it should void your CD key.

1 life, that's it.

I doubt you'd need to implement something like this even if it wasn't a totally insane idea. If someone worked extremely hard to become what they were and dies, some may bounce back more determined, others will get pissed and rage quit.

[Vexus 25]

How about master-server based loot? As frustrating as it is to walk into a large building and find nothing but tin cans, it's more ludicrous to log into a server the next day to find your building full of high-end loot. Like someone walked in and died all over the room dropping all their gear everywhere while you slept. A master-loot table with a set amount of weapons available across all servers would be awesome. Where the clan which hordes all the .50 cals obviously took months to acquire them by hunting down every owner across all servers.

When a weapon is lost from either a dead survivor or other means, the master server opens a slot for that weapon and it spawns on some other server later, keeping a static number available. I really like this idea; makes it more important to loot players who get killed, and to help those who have good weapons and are in need of aid.

[thehumandove 344]

Its already punishment enough. Gear is fucking precious. Especially since you start with almost nothing. Anything more, and I'll just be sad

[todayshero 1]

I think the best and most simple solution to death being more weighty is items that randomly spawn (not able to be tracked down by a loot map) and the spawn rate of more powerful objects going down. I think that players SHOULD get some type of weapon to defend themselves in the start, even if I pick up a big stick that takes 10 hits to kill a zombie/zed/player. I don't play with a group, and though death doesn't sting as bad as it use it, it's still a slightly painful experience, and it does get the heart racing. The game is fun, and I don't think it should be bogged down by insane amounts of grinding. This is alpha, and a mod so everything is limited, but I think when the game comes out players should have ways to survive that are creative and go outside shooting or stabbing. (Improvised traps?)