A Solution to the Problem of Bandit Identification

[HoboWithAGlock 25]

With the new skin system announcement, a lot of people who hated the mechanics rejoiced, and a lot who enjoyed it voiced their concerns. For the former group, the system was a poor solution with poor implementation, yet for the latter, it was a necessary mechanic set in place to ensure an ordered PvP system.

So how about a solution to the issue that satisfies everyone?

The way to solve the issue isn't through a direct mechanic, but rather, through change in a different mechanic altogether. The skins system as it will be soon is okay for what it is.

The solution will require two things: an increased level of persistence and a new system of identification. Both will hinge upon the other.

The exact level of persistence can be decided upon by rocket and the dev team, but it'll require at the very least a maintained name database that will allow people to have a unique identity. Through this, bandits can be identified through infamy and word of mouth rather than through a shallow game mechanic. It also allows for more complex social system whereupon the players can determine the classifications and categorizations of what we now simply refer to as survivors and bandits. Is this a perfect system? No, of course not, and I don't expect it to be, but for the time being it's better than the nonexistent system that will be in place soon.

The second change will have to do with the identification of players. As it stands now, there are two options (as dictated by the servers): name cards and no name cards. The former is unrealistic and allows for some serious mechanic exploitation, while the latter is just as unreasonable and offers the player no way of identifying others. As there is no way of maintaining a database of unique player characters with their own equally unique looks, the only reasonable way of solving the issue is through, again, player cards. The base mechanic would be that players could only be able to identify others (i.e. see their card) either when in close proximity or through a scope or binoculars. This obviously allows for the best of both worlds: you can't know that someone is there without seeing them, yet you can still know who you're talking to when you're close. Again, the idea of player cards itself is unrealistic, but I am unsure as to what is feasible within the constrains of the base game, so for now it will have to suffice.

There may be ways in the future to strengthen these mechanics, especially through the implementation of the new skin system (imagine being able to kill someone and pretend that you are them), but for now, it's better to have some brevity, I suppose.

Anyway, just some food for thought. I'm well aware that this is a mod and a lot hinges upon the cooperation of the base game and subsequently the Real Virtuality engine itself, so look at these as a broad foundation suggestion rather than a simply naive one.

[Daimyo21 (DayZ) 6]

I dont like the idea of Identification cards. Its just too unrealistic and doesnt go with the games environment (however, if all else fails, some sort of similar system would be nice with fake id's, and skills to determine a fake ID.)

My suggestions:

Blood Stains: Adding custom blood stains on players. If you kill someone at fairly close range, than you get blood on you in random areas, sometimes very little or none at all. Also when looting recently killed bodies, you get blood on your hands or pants/shoes etc, from kneeling into a pool of blood etc. Going in ponds, ocean, near wells, in rain would wash the stains off over time.

This would be very cool in a Expert setting server where there is no 3rd person to completely check your character perfectly. Another group might let you join, spot some blood on your shoe. Than question you.

SKILLS: Another alternative would be adding skills for players to level. Assessment skills/perception skill. Lets you analyze players.. the higher the skill the more details you can know about a survivor by "examining him" etc.

[Nedak 10]

I think being able to identify bandits and friendlies in the future is extremely helpful.

People make the argument "in the real world you wouldn't be able to tell". Well, in the real world you would have people just killing everybody they meet either.

The current system is broken, yes, but I think somebody later should be implemented.

[mooncabbage 2]

Rocket has mentioned that in the future some form of humanity system will be implemented, if only to prevent servers devolving into death matches. As of the next patch however, the bandit system is gone, replaced by new findable skins!

[Zarathustra (DayZ) 87]

I also think we need a higher level of character persistence in the game and I'd like to post what I said in another thread:

I think Eve Online has the answer, but I'll come back to that.

We need an in-game identity if our actions are to have some weight. More personalized characters might be one way to solve this, or even some sort of profile and bounty system.

In reality, survivors would quickly learn to identity others in their area, and those involved in banditry would become well known through their reputation. This is hard to do in a game with thousands of people playing on dozens of different servers, each person rarely meeting the same players twice.

Eve Online gets around this by allowing players to place bounties on the heads of criminals and to check the profiles of every player in the solar system - could a similar feature be included in Day Z? Could we have profiles of the players on the server which we could browse for an indication of their intentions?

Player profiles are unlikely to possible in the Arma engine, but, perhaps, since we already have a unique character with a unique spot in a central database, we could have a profile on a web page? Eve Online players will be used to alt-tabbing out of the game to check kill boards for information on their enemy's combat stats and preferred ship fittings; it really isn't that clunky once you're used to it!

[bbobu 1]

I think being able to identify bandits and friendlies in the future is extremely helpful.

People make the argument "in the real world you wouldn't be able to tell". Well' date=' in the real world you would have people just killing everybody they meet either.

The current system is broken, yes, but I think somebody later should be implemented.

[/quote']

I agree that there should be some way to tell. Yes, it's an abstraction, but this is a game. The bandit skin represents someone who is hiding their identity, or has a bad reputation. Here's a suggestion I posted earlier:

Perhaps simply adding back 2500 humanity at each death would help. This would clear someone who had to defend themselves from another survivor.

Indiscriminate murderers would still have negative humanity even after adding 2500 back in (and therefore still have their bandit skin).

That seems fair since it doesn't penalize the player who is attacked by a survivor and defends themselves. On the other hand, bandits who kill everyone they meet will still have to contend with the consequences of that playstyle.

[t_hum 0]

Im just spitballin' here so bear with me....

The truth is in life much of our initial contact and perceptions of new people we meet are based on the references of others. Perhaps more so in our age than in any other as a result of social media. I wonder if a similar style mechanic could be implemented here.

We all start will 0 reputation. As we meet and interact with other players we rate our interaction with them. Higher rep means survivor, lower rep means bandit. Could these reputations be passed on and spread between players as we make contact with others in a very organic way? When we see players from a distance are we shown names, ratings, both or neither? Maybe we have to interact with the player or get close enough before we can make the relation between the player and their reputation we have learned from others.

The reality is that this idea isnt too much different than one of the posts above of having community based feedback but it would be great to have it in game rather than tabbing out to see a website.

This mechanic may be limited given the ArmA II engine that dayz mod is riding on but Id prefer to think outside the box at this point as we have no idea into what this may evolve.

Cheers.

[RudeBootie 0]

Why not just have an arbitrary system for giving different skins with different humanity. There are 3 thus far, survivor brown, survivor black, and bandit. So why not add a couple more skins, potentially rewarding higher or lower counts of humanity with better camo, and an idea to know how helpful they really are. The only problem with that is that bandits will see that as incentive to continue their ways, not that it is really a bad thing. Personally, I don't think you should really know about anyone's disposition towards you.

[1mpuls3 2]

Spitballing as well, I just came up with a wild and crazy idea.

On some servers you can see the player's name if your crosshairs is pointed at em, we all know that. I, too, would like it so that we do not see the players name at all. Realism is one of the key words.

When 1.5.8 arrives, as we all know by now, the humanity system will become pretty much useless. My idea not only solves the purpose and use of the humanity system but also the identification of bandits no matter what outfit they are wearing. And here it is;

Exchange the player name you can see when you look at a player with their current score of the humanity, taken from their own Debug monitor.

[t_hum 0]

I think that the humanity system can sometime pigeonhole people into banditry and also punish survivors for self defense. I think a less arbitrary method based on community experiences offers an olive branch to people that makes mistakes while also squarely placing true bandits at a social disadvantage.

Expanding on my earlier post, imagine a system that shows your average rating both + and - and the average of those that rated you in each category.

Example 1:

Rated -4 avg by players with a +6 avg. Rated +7 by players with a -2 average.

So this example shows that the player is likely a bandit. Bandits love him. Survivors hate him.

Example 2:

-4 by -4avg, -6 by +9 avg.

Such a bad dude that EVERYBODY hates him. He doesn't even play nice with other bandits.

[thegarcia 12]

Like I stated in another post, until something better is implemented the bandit system should be revamped. Here is how.

- Instead of only 2 kills making you a bandit, make it 4 or 5 that way it has been consistent and any attempts for self-defense are not majorly impactful.

- I made the point of IRL if this happened, you could easily recognize bandits as they would be armed, act suspiciously, wear certain clothes, have certain items. We NEED a way of identifying the same types of people and we already have it, we just need to REVAMP the current system.

[275RR 1]

+1 for a very well thought out post. However, I have some problems with the basic idea.

The problem I see with the OP and the Eve-Online example is that this game at its core is more FPS than MMO. You die a lot, start completely over, and then choose how to play the next round. It's all about that one shot. Even more hardcore MMO's like Eve still have some persistence on your character (like skill points). I guess it's a really fine line, but the suggested system seems to make you choose bandit or survivor and be stuck with that decision forever. This game is more open, sandbox, try what you want, etc.

The idea behind the old system, IMO, identifies you for your decision and makes you stick with it long enough to make the effect worthwhile. I'm just looking at the idea not the problems with implementation. It does dictate how you should play, but only in a very small way. And it does not allow others to dictate how you play by exerting societal control over you.

Here's a re-post of some of my ideas:

In Day Z, it is day 0 so any organization/co-op in the world is minimal. Any differentiation should be subtle at best. As you play though you are going from day 0 to day x so maybe some lite organization could be accepted?

1. The American frontier or Wild West had a low level of civilization.

2. Maybe if you acquire enough humanity, you get a sheriff badge? or some inferred "community assistance" like an free m1911?

3. Maybe cities start showing up with bounty posters as someones humanity falls more and they become infamous. That player's name could have a "bandit" tag to simulate the public awareness of their face?

*edit: I saw a comment that skins might have been removed because it made it too easy to avoid bandits. I think the sheriff badge might be the answer to this. You would have to be close to see it. It focuses on the "good" people wanting to work with other "good" people instead of the bandit who just wants to kill. It would be easy to skin and implement. It fits with the idea of adding many outfits.

While my idea might not be ideal. It doesn't penalize or reward any type of play so drastically.

I think daimyo's idea also fits well in this line of thought.