Bandit/Survivor Morphing to be removed

[c.chris.perry@gmail.com 17]

COMPLETELY AGREE WITH THIS. neither a completely "anonymous" nor a "marked skin aka: shoot on sight" aproachs are good solutions.

The TAG idea is very good. Something like a "like" and "dislike" reputation' date=' you add by visually seing a target. Problem is, the SPOT function of the backspace was removed, and veteran servers has no subtitle whatsoever if you point your "invisible" cursor over an object or a player. Maybe they should fiix that.

I vote in favor of a tag/ranting system added by the players. They could even be used to foll some groups with false taggins. Who knows?

[/quote']

Most servers that remove nameplates (mine included) do so because nameplates are basically a wall/coverhack. You can see someone from hundreds of meters away through multiple buildings buy just clicking your middle mouse and spinning around. Any sort of tag system defeats the purpose of removing the skins, it's still identifying them when you would have no way to actually identify them in real life. The addition of customizable, lootable, skins should allow you to pass info to other survivors, at least on your immediate server.

Example: You get shot at or see someone getting shot at by the guy wearing a yellow party hat, so you call out on side chat (as long as it's still implemented) that mr. yellow party hat is a big bad raider and all the carebears should watch out for him.

[Korpsicle 0]

I understand the intentions, I really do. Especially if things are to be kept realistic, but people won't play video games 'realisticly.'

If I am walking around and I spot another player, if I don't have the demerit of a bandit skin, what's keeping me from killing him and stealing his food? Why would I even bother to find out if he's friendly or not.

I understand that in real life, you can't tell friend from foe. But in real life you have emotions to deal with. One can easily be heartless in a video game.

There is literally nothing to stop me from killing other players now.

Just my 2 cents.

[miqueloz 33]

I understand the intentions' date=' I really do. Especially if things are to be kept realistic, but people won't play video games 'realisticly.'

If I am walking around and I spot another player, if I don't have the demerit of a bandit skin, what's keeping me from killing him and stealing his food? Why would I even bother to find out if he's friendly or not.

I understand that in real life, you can't tell friend from foe. But in real life you have emotions to deal with. One can easily be heartless in a video game.

There is literally nothing to stop me from killing other players now.

Just my 2 cents.

[/quote']

If you kill him, you lose a potential dude to work with and help you. That's the kind of stuff that should make you think twice, instead of out-of-place skin morphing.

Also there's a chance you miss and a firefight begins. In which you risk dying yourself.

If you don't care about their help and don't mind if they lose their progress then go ahead and kill them. Their fault for being careless. As it should be.

[Korpsicle 0]

I understand the intentions' date=' I really do. Especially if things are to be kept realistic, but people won't play video games 'realisticly.'

If I am walking around and I spot another player, if I don't have the demerit of a bandit skin, what's keeping me from killing him and stealing his food? Why would I even bother to find out if he's friendly or not.

I understand that in real life, you can't tell friend from foe. But in real life you have emotions to deal with. One can easily be heartless in a video game.

There is literally nothing to stop me from killing other players now.

Just my 2 cents.

[/quote']

If you kill him, you lose a potential dude to work with and help you. That's the kind of stuff that should make you think twice, instead of out-of-place skin morphing.

If you don't care about their help and don't mind if they lose their progress then go ahead and kill them. Their fault for being careless. As it should be.

Well that's my point exactly. If you don't care about their help, go ahead and kill them. I may be speaking out of line when I say that zombies aren't as much of a dilemma as other players are, but that's how I feel right now, with the exception of night time anyway. I don't need other players to prosper, and the other player is going to be in my ironsights, before he's going to be at my shoulder.

Take these examples.

I come across another player. If I've got an M4A1 with RDS and 6 clips, fully decked out gear equipment, food, water and a Coyote backpack; obviously I'm going to kill him because I don't want some player turning his back on me because I have better stuff.

Now on the contrary, if I've got a makarov and limited food or water, why would I group up with someone, and have to share his food or water (if he's kind enough to share), and split findings in the future with him, if I can just kill him and take what he has.

There's a 1000 different situations that could be placed in front of me, and I'm going to say 99 times out of a hundred,, I'm going to choose to slay the other player because I'm more interested in what he may have, then the possibility of being deceived into trusting him.

With no way to distinguish friend from foe, why bother to find out?

If I have no consequences for my actions for slaying another player, why would I bother to ask him his name, when I can just as easily make a corpse out of him, and not have to worry about other players I may encounter.

Now I'm not saying that the Bandit-skin-system is justified, or even better. I am however, glad to hear the system is being actively worked on.

[rufio (DayZ) 0]

-implement somekind of gesture like hands up unarmed.( i think this could really act as an icebreaker for people to communicate on safe terms and not shoot eachother in cold blood)

-implement basic casual civilian character customization. (so nothing that labels you with a job but makes you look like a neutral citizen)

-add gear fitting the location it will be found in, examples: hospital nurse/doctor outfit, farms: overalls/straw hats , MilitaryBases: army uniforms , Airport: pilot/steward gear.

-add special looking gear on hard/popular spots

-personally i like the idea of needing to craft your ghillie suit (example items needed:1 army cammo suit>3x wire/rope> 5xtwiggs/vegitation) but having the ghillie in some special spots would suffice to.

To further explain why i think these changes would greatly improve the game experience:

People will be able to define themselves by appearance even if its to trick people, so be it.

Appearance could then also show hints of where people have been and how long they are already surviving this will also function as somekind of achievment/renown.

Groups could choose to go for the same look. (again achievment+ unity)

-all this would go great with the concept of becomming bloodyd after searching a player body. and having to get into water or use water prefferably an ammount like 3+ (no soda's) to clean the gear, maybe even require a campfire and water (soap). this would brand people who kill and loot corpses as bandits/murderers and force them to take action to cleanse themselves of this bloodyd look.( i favour the 3water 1soap(consumable or perma like map/watch) and campfire requirements for cleaning gear, since this will force people to really consider if killing and looting is worth running arround all bloodyd and marked as bandit, on the otherhand it would require people who want to do it smoothly to plan and aquire the washing requirements or an extra outfit before commiting theyr crimes)

Imo playercorpse bloodyd outfit should be lootable to, eventhow it takes away the 100% assurance that a player has been where his outfit comes from.

these are some ideas i got from brainstorming and reading half this thread. I hope they will be inspiration to making this mod even better than it already is and keep the sandbox survival feel.

keep up the good work!! cheers

(sry for spelling/grammar its late)

[Deveren 0]

COMPLETELY AGREE WITH THIS. neither a completely "anonymous" nor a "marked skin aka: shoot on sight" aproachs are good solutions.

The TAG idea is very good. Something like a "like" and "dislike" reputation' date=' you add by visually seing a target. Problem is, the SPOT function of the backspace was removed, and veteran servers has no subtitle whatsoever if you point your "invisible" cursor over an object or a player. Maybe they should fiix that.

I vote in favor of a tag/ranting system added by the players. They could even be used to foll some groups with false taggins. Who knows?

[/quote']

Most servers that remove nameplates (mine included) do so because nameplates are basically a wall/coverhack. You can see someone from hundreds of meters away through multiple buildings buy just clicking your middle mouse and spinning around. Any sort of tag system defeats the purpose of removing the skins, it's still identifying them when you would have no way to actually identify them in real life. The addition of customizable, lootable, skins should allow you to pass info to other survivors, at least on your immediate server.

Example: You get shot at or see someone getting shot at by the guy wearing a yellow party hat, so you call out on side chat (as long as it's still implemented) that mr. yellow party hat is a big bad raider and all the carebears should watch out for him.

I again refer to the fact that in real life, you can identify people based on many different factors such as sex, height, skin color, facial features and clothes. If we look at tagging as essentially get a description of the person, I don't see how it's unrealistic to know/remember that person if you see them again. If what you mean is that the game can't support a tag system like that and the only real way is via the nameplate system then I understand. I'm all for realism, but in the end this game can only emulate it to a certain degree. After a certain point, things need to be implemented to represent realism.

My idea is that tag represent someones memory of the enemy/friend/suspicious person. Doesn't have to be permanent or share-able. It can just be a tag that you see that has a time limit to represent the fading of details. Again, I freely admit to not knowing if this is possible to implement in the game, I'm just trying to throw out ideas and give my reasoning as to why i feel they wouldn't be out of place.

[Korpsicle 0]

Now, if it was a PERFECT system, this may be fairer.

Players can pick their own clothing. Restrictions:

-Can only change once every 5 days.

-Can't change if recently slain another player (72 hour wait period?)

Nameplates disabled, maybe a general description upon mouseover (like what clothing they're wearing ex: Construction Worker).

Direct Comm VoIP chat working, and disabling global/side chat.

Now, ideally, this would work as exampled below.

Korpsicle is wearing a construction worker clothing, with a yellow hardhat. I get into a firefight with Vexal, and kill him. Vexal spawns near the coast, and meets up with his group and tells them the dude with the construction worker outfit and yellow hardhat is hostile.

Now that runs ideally because I still need to worry because players who don't want to just kill everyone, can pass the word to beware of me, at least until I change my outfit. But Vexal's group also need to be aware of the fact that someone else, may be a construction worker.

At the same time, with side and global chat disabled, Vexal can't just yell out in open chat that I'm a bandit.

Now at the same time, we run into the complications of, that's not realistic.

Realisticly, Vexal's dead. RIP. Game over. No one will ever know, and Vexal's too dead to tell anyone who I am or was.

Pros/Cons :(

[rufio (DayZ) 0]

i like the description tag idea and the voip only, i dont like the restrictions atall it takes away the whole sandbox feel, the idea of washing bloodyd outfits after playerloot , or changing outfits is way more immersive i think.

[Dhal (DayZ) 3]

The reason the skin change was important was that it added a tangible penalty for being an asshole.

Call it karma' date=' reputation, word of mouth, whatever. Like the old west, everyone had heard of Billy the Kid, Jesse James, etc. To take it a step farther, many were known by signature style of dress (boots, hats, belts, guns, etc) so even if you had not met them, you might recognize who the were.

I for one would take it a step further and add a third skin that would require you to keep your humanity and kill bandits. Call it a ranger or a lawman and give them an overcoat and a star or something.

As it is, removing the one tangible penalty is just going to result in less cooperation between people who don't know each other. Some will still take the highroad, but far more are going to just kill on sight since they won't be marked for death. If anything, it is less realistic now since everyone will look like a clone of eachother.

[/quote']

This doesn't hold up. You're saying bandits should look like bandits because of your own personal reasons, not because the mechanic makes sense.

To use your own arguments; the reason Billy the Kid's etc had the reputation they did, is because you couldn't telegraph a photo across the nation instantaneously. If a bandit in this game is storming a town full of survivors taking things from their packs, and blasting them in the face, the other survivors can see this and act on it if they choose to.

For every Billy the Kid there were 1,000 more unknown train raiders and coach heists that were in it for money not fame, that never were caught. Your personal "he's an asshole" doesn't justify a mechanic for a game that's goal is realism and being very difficult to survive.

In a way, they almost couldn't. That 'bandit' would look just like them. They'd have to check in before firing, while the bandit is free to kill/steal everything without worry. It's not realistic because you can't find any distinguishing feature about the person. If everyone in the united states looked the same with 3 or 4 different color variations of the same outfit, billy the kid wouldn't have had any issues. Everyone else would have because they'd be trying to figure out which one actually was billy the kid.

And to that you could say if he had a beacon over his head with flashing arrows saying "I've robbed a bank", immediately after robbing a bank and went to the next town; and the sheriff could know without a doubt those arrows were true, bank robberies wouldn't happen.

So far I like the blood idea. If we end up being able to just use the outfits the zombies are wearing, I'd love to dawn a nun garb covered in surgical blood, or blood of felled survivors whether I killed them or zombos did. It still is a toss up of where the blood came from, and using canteen/pond water (and possibly soap) to clean it is good. Freedom of style or benefits of certain uniforms are important for reasons already stated. I don't think many bandits would be eager to cleanse the blood of their victims. Especially if you were a bloody mess the more people you looted/gave transfusions without washing.

To those suggesting some kind of hud indicator, and that they should 'fix' veteran servers from not displaying names; I think they did fix it by disabling it. Floating names pop up long before you actually get a visual in a lot of cases as far as 200+m regardless of how much foliage cover you have. THAT is a huge problem in terms of the vision of design.

[rufio (DayZ) 0]

veteran servers are indeed the real deal :D

[Dhal (DayZ) 3]

It's the zombie apocalypse' date=' there are no cameras and no functioning towns. It'd be pretty much impossible for anyone to have much of a reputation because dead people don't talk.

[/quote']

Such a great EoD statement.

Anyone claiming they'd be able to recognize someones facial features, etc. and need some indication that they've run into each other would only matter if that person has killed you before.

P e r m a d e a t h. You are dead. You have no memory of a previous life, as this is a brand new life. You have never been killed before. And there is nothing to remember.

[Eccentric 15]

I am so happy the morphing is gone, for now atleast. Had so much trouble when turning into bandit..

But i hope we will see some sort of bandit feature in the future. It was a great idea, but too many errors.

[CraKinShOt 1]

Removing the Bandit stuff is a bad idea. It should be more like a progressive thing though. So smaller changes to the base character look, from murders 1-20. At 20 and above you're a full bandit.

I've specifically not killed people because I didn't want to become a bandit. Remove this and there no point in playing nice.

[magnumx70@gmail.com 2]

HUUUUU drama drama I love it!!!

BRING IT ON Rocket im not scared yet!!!......

[calin_banc 5]

They're not ostracized because of their "skin"' date=' but because of their actions. You don't fear a convict for he's clothes, presence beside you, the color of he's RL skin, but for he's past actions.[/quote']

Yes, but I know more than enough people IRL who you wouldn't automagically know had been incarcerated. That's key.

Considering the later' date=' the game absolutely needs to give a motivation to players NOT to kill each other and a way to deal with the "renegades".[/quote']

And I respectfully disagree. In my opinion, the game needs a way to deal with people who are exploiting - spawn camping and killing players on spawn in, and nothing more. Other than that, players killing other players is a perfectly fair game mechanic, in it's own right.

TKJ

In RL, I can see more details about a person compared with the game's offering.

If it's ok with "no bandit skin" because of the "unfair" disadvantage it gives to the "bad people", than it's ok with every other action a guy does. But, I didn't mean to say that players shouldn't shoot at each other, instead, the game should give an incentive not to do it. After all, "death matches" are all over the gaming industry: BF, CoD, CS, UT etc. On the front page you have: shoot zombies, shoot bandits, survive. In a way, the bandit skin should be in there by default if that goals are maintained. Survival should be at the utmost importance, in my opinion and also, something else to motivate the player into teaming up or exploring: a fine storyline, some missions like in ArmA Armory (but better) and so on.

Bellow, there is a movie I've made last night. With the new patch, I would have engaged them even tough I only had the starting pistol. With a silenced weapon or the DMR I've found in those hangars, it would probably give the opportunity to engage a large number of player with relative ease - three to five people lets say, from a "safe" distance. If they thought about returning fire, well, the zombies would have been happy to make my job easier. :D

[{sas}silentkiller 2]

I don't like this change, now every bandit will be rejoicing, causing this game to be more about trying to not get killed by other players with NV goggles & sniper rifles, than avoiding/killing zombies :(

If it is possible, the bandit status should be server specific, so people can have alter egos, on one server they are bandits on another they are pure survivor.

I like the idea of either being a bandit or survivor (do you get bandit status if you kill a bandit?) This change imo is a poor decision, & will cause a lot of people to stop playing, because there will be a massive shift to people just shooting anyone they don't know, & there is not down side to it at all, surely there should be a down side to killing other people.

It now emphasises individual survival against other players rather than group survival against the zombies & limited resources.

[BurstFire (DayZ) 1]

Just need another way to find out someone's humanity is all, seeing how this is supposed to be realistic but we can't properly tell by someone's body language, attitude (to an extent), facial expressions and wear and tear of their clothing. Still think if we get close enough, we should be able have the option to 'Study Player' which allows us JUST to examine their humanity rating be it through numbers or a description something along the lines of 'This person seems to have quite a bit of blood on their hands and clothing, they seem edgy and their eyes are keen to look at your gear', even though my example is a bit assuming.

Definitely need a solid alternative though.

[miqueloz 33]

I don't like this change' date=' now every bandit will be rejoicing, causing this game to be more about trying to not get killed by other players with NV goggles & sniper rifles, than avoiding/killing zombies :(

[/quote']

Naturally....

Come on, my dog playing on my comp could survive the zombies if there weren't any bandits around. The zombies themselves are not challenging at all. Nothing is easier than killing them and looting stuff. Heck, you don't even have to kill them, just prone. Such survivor-ism I have never seen.

The only reason there is challenge is that there are also players you have to worry about. And that's also the only reason to get better gear, a Makarov is good enough for killing a couple zombies if you have to do it to get some food/water.

[shwat 3]

TL;DR at end.

This change imo is a poor decision' date=' & will cause a lot of people to stop playing, because there will be a massive shift to people just shooting anyone they don't know, & there is not down side to it at all, surely there should be a down side to killing other people.

[/quote']

Pure speculation. This sort of mentality already exists among players who have played more than a few days and found out that survivors are not angels of the apocalypse. I've been shot at by survivors significantly more so than bandits. The distinction we have now makes naive players feel safe when they shouldn't, and they suffer for it. Inversely, some of the best people I've met are bandits because they've had to kill survivors that attacked them.

Also, why should there be a downside other than death when you're taking the single greatest risk possible in Day Z, which is attacking another player? Players have guns, and can kill you faster than anything else. If you choose to attack one, you're literally betting your life and everything you have against the chance that they may come out on top. This isn't "play nicely together and build barbed-wire forts in the forest," this is a survival/horror mod in a hostile environment. Any argument that states there should be penalization for killing other players needs some sort of reasoning for it, and so far I haven't seen any.

Why should players be penalized for killing other players? You might say it's unfair for one person to sneak up and ambush another, but that's simple guerilla tactics. They're supposed to be unfair, because when you're in a combat situation any chance you give the enemy is a chance he has to kill you. You aren't supposed to give them a chance. If you give them one, you may die for it. You had an opportunity to do proper reconnaissance, but you didn't or you were poorly equipped for it. If you're poorly equipped and choose to go into a dangerous area, that's the risk you take. By going in you accept that risk. If there's a guy with NVGs watching you from 200m away, he's better equipped to deal with that risk than you are. The risk for him is less, and he's probably going to capitalize. Is that his fault? No, it' yours, because you committed to something dangerous and it didn't pan out.

It's not like bandits spawn with NVGs and DMRs. They spawn with a makarov and beans, just like you do. They had to fight for their gear, against zombies and players alike. So do you. You're all up against the same challenge, bandits maybe more so because even "friendly" survivors will shoot them without warning. What's unfair now? At least naive survivors sometimes manage to band together and form little roaming groups. Bandits are kill or be killed. Nobody gives bandits a chance. Not all bandits are hostile by choice, but by necessity.

Hell, today I was shot by a survivor 10 feet away in Elektrozavodsk while I was standing with my gun down, not moving, and talking to him over direct comms. He looked at me, looked away, then looked back and starting shooting without a word. Everybody is fuckin' hostile. I could have shot him the moment I saw him, because I came up behind him with an AKM. Did I complain about it? Hell no, I laughed in teamspeak and told my buddy what happened. He laughed too. The poor survivor probably didn't even see me when he first looked because I was crawling towards him. I probably scared the shit out of him, but he didn't seem to care that I was 10 feet away with an assault rifle and hadn't already tried to shoot him. For what it's worth, I walked away from that and the survivor didn't. He apparently only had 2 rounds left in his Makarov magazine, and he only hit me once. The poor guy didn't even realize the risk he was taking before he went *pop* *pop* clickclickclick.

TL;DR TL;DR TL;DR

Same old story for most people asking for penalization of PVP. You don't assess the risk before you take it, and you pay for it. Then you come to the forums and tell us all about how unfair it is. Attacking people is a risk for the bandit as well, and the bandit goes through the same shit you do. It's not unfair, you're just reckless.

Kudos to rocket for a job well done. The equip-able skins system is a step towards realism and away from arbitrary distinctions. It'll make you think twice about everyone, not just the out-of-place soldiers in desert camouflage.

[sgt_hawkins 1]

Welcome to the new pvp mod called dayz...ohh and I think it has zombies....

[miqueloz 33]

It's always been a pvp mod.

[Ketsugo (DayZ) 1]

Welcome to the new pvp mod called dayz...ohh and I think it has zombies....

Like Xant said, it's always been about the player interaction. The zombies are more of an environmental hazard than an actual threat to the player, until you alert them.

[tolya 1]

Good riddance. I've been shot by survivors more so than by bandits, who at least show some signs of predictability (like reacting to your gear). With the amount of new players who still have COD carebear reflexes of shooting anything that moves. If someone stays for a while though, they quickly learn the hard way.

[DeadAimHeadshot (DayZ) 2]

I am learning to feast upon tears like rocket.

I was getting sick of all the bitching and complaining its too hard too realistic not fun.

Now it's funny. Every time rocket makes it tougher it makes me smile.

Weed out these pussies.

As for bandit skins they should be gone. I wouldn't go around real life broadcasting I am a killer. Besides choosing skins would be nice.

I want to be paranoid of people. I don't want to know intentions. That's what makes this game do intense.

With a more dangerous environment and no drinking water from ocean I think people will move inland and work together slightly more anyways. And if not. Oh well that's a sandbox for you.

Rocket didn't mean for anything to be balanced so I really wish these newcomers would stop bitching. The bad thing about becoming popular so quick and drawing in non Arma players...

[The Killing Joke 43]

Just last night, in-game as Jayne Cobb (the character I play) I was in some larger industrial section, and down to two bullets in my last Makarov clip atop a large building. I had scavenged some supplies, including my first ever smoke grenade, and night was falling.

I heard some commotion a couple of floors below, and noticed that some new zeds had spawned. Scratch that, a LOT of zeds had spawned. I could hear a few in the building, and crossing the rooftop, I looked around the area and counted no less than twenty zeds around. Figuring I wouldn't have enough rounds to escape successfully, I tested my aim from the rooftop, and was happy that the two shots I put in the zed nearest kept it down.

I had been using chat to keep in touch with some people, and made them aware of my predicament. All the while, I was dropping flares off the rooftop in an effort to get someone's attention. A character named 'user' (original, eh?) offered to traverse the expanse and give me some ammo, so I launched my smoke and watched as he proned his way to my position. When he got to the roof he advised me that he was armed, and that there wasn't to be any funny business.

I said, "you do hear this, right?" as the telltale 'click, click, click' of my empty gun sounded off.

He gave me a clip, and as we garnered a quick truce, a new zed shambled it's way onto the rooftops with us. We put it down, and I told him there wasn't much luck in us escaping, since I was - again - low on ammo. I thanked him for the help, and told him I'd run cover for him.

I ran down and out of the building, pulling as many zeds with me as I could. I shot my pistol in the air outside, and briefly saw 'user' escaping before I blacked out... He kept talking in chat, thanking me for helping him out, and I got ready to log as he added me on Steam.

And all the while, I was wearing a dirty, beat-up bandit skin.

So, to all of you who say "this is going to devolve into a deathmatch", I say to you: UP YOUR GAME. If that's the only solution you see, then I say you are part of the problem.

Trust a little. Not all of us are going to shoot you in the back all of the time.

TK "I fight for the User!" J