New mechanic: weapon health system

[sparta436 46]

So lately on the forums, theres been alot of whining about people with m107s being invulnerable and then whining from the players with the advanced weapons that they should get to keep their guns, well I propose a solution.

WEAPON HEALTH

This will be an accelerated weapon mechanic that makes weapons degrade in accuracy and condition as they are used. This way the advanced weapons that people always complain about stay, while the people that have them get to keep them instead of being punished for their hard work.

Every weapon will have a cap on how many shots it can fire before it dies. Weapons can be found in varying conditions/ states of disreapair. Parts will start to wear out, become less effective, and break down as you use your weapon.

Stuff like AKs benefit from lasting longer than western rifles but lack accuracy. Western rifles like M4s make up for reliability and accuracy, but die out faster.

I propose (as far as weapon health goes)

AK variants> FN FAL> L85>M4/M16 (this is purely an example)

Something reasonable for sniper rifles and semi only firearms. I really have no idea what the cap should be but it should at least be plausible and adjusted to each sniper.

When your weapon health gets low and your weapon starts to become less and less effective, you must go out into Chernarus and search for the same weapon. Say you have an m4 thats low on health. You have to find another m4 so that you can cannibalize parts from it and repair your own weapon.

Weather conditions will also effect your weapon, when it rains your weapon health will degrade slightly faster (because, with rain comes mud and thats stuff gets into your gun). Weather conditions effect you AND your weapon, therefore your weapon becomes an extension of yourself.

As an added problem, your weapons will jam and misfire, if the misfire is bad enough when the weapon health is really low, the weapon will blow up in your hands and cause you to start bleeding.

I thought this idea up because i feel that the game is too easy when you get a silenced gun (which i have had plenty of). I'm not a noob complaining "OMG WTF I KEEP GETTING ONE SHOT KILLED BY AS50s IN CHERNO WTFBBQ!!!!???"

I am merely a bandit in a clan seeking to make the game just a bit more difficult for people at the top of the food chain.

Edited July 11, 2012 by sparta436

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I don't like it, too artificial.

[sparta436 46]

I don't like it, too artificial.

please explain how.

[Draco122 412]

Perhaps as opposed to weapon health, they should be found in varying states of condition. I mean it seems a bit unrealistic to find a weapon that has probably been sitting inside a dank factory or barn at 100% condition like it is now, you'd sorta expect something to go wrong with it. Maybe something like ammunition misfires, weapon jamming or potentially having a weapon "break" on you forcing you to find a toolbox to repair it

[DoshDosh 62]

I think this is a great idea. I actually liked Fallout 3/NV's degradation system as well as the one seen in Far Cry 2, although at times it felt like the guns were made of chocolate.

Providing some weapons with randomized "health" on spawn sounds nice too- if anything I'd go by the Fallout model myself, where if you find a high-tier weapon in an earlier or unusual loot spawn area, it starts at minimal health. I guess in this case finding duplicates of a weapon and having the proper tool could allow you to field strip one and cannibalize working parts to improve the condition of the other, so in that sense even the heaviest geared players will have to venture into heavily-trafficked areas and expose themselves to risk.

I think that lack of risk at endgame is one of the cons of this mod so far, so I think it would be a good way to mitigate that.

[Zombiestubble 4]

I would like a weapon health system, complete with either more abundant repair kits or specific gunsmithing kits for certian weapons.

I would however not like a system that was based on shots fired. A percentage system like what Draco122 suggested would be better, as then you could increase the percentage. Perhaps even go above 100% and make the weapon shoot more accurately than it normally would.

[sparta436 46]

Perhaps as opposed to weapon health, they should be found in varying states of condition. I mean it seems a bit unrealistic to find a weapon that has probably been sitting inside a dank factory or barn at 100% condition like it is now, you'd sorta expect something to go wrong with it. Maybe something like ammunition misfires, weapon jamming or potentially having a weapon "break" on you forcing you to find a toolbox to repair it

Have you every played S.T.A.L.K.E.R.? we should introduce a weapons system similar to the one in that game. You find weapons in varying states of condition, there is no way to repair them, and weapons jam and break altogether.

[sparta436 46]

I think this is a great idea. I actually liked Fallout 3/NV's degradation system as well as the one seen in Far Cry 2, although at times it felt like the guns were made of chocolate.

Providing some weapons with randomized "health" on spawn sounds nice too- if anything I'd go by the Fallout model myself, where if you find a high-tier weapon in an earlier or unusual loot spawn area, it starts at minimal health. I guess in this case finding duplicates of a weapon and having the proper tool could allow you to field strip one and cannibalize working parts to improve the condition of the other, so in that sense even the heaviest geared players will have to venture into heavily-trafficked areas and expose themselves to risk.

I think that lack of risk at endgame is one of the cons of this mod so far, so I think it would be a good way to mitigate that.

The lack of risk at endgame is exactly my problem. Once i got NVGs, ghillie, an M4 CCO SD, and quite a few vehicles between me and my friends, i felt as if i had totally beaten the game. I got bored really fast. If it wasn't for people stealing my vehicles every five seconds, i'd have no reason to play.

[sparta436 46]

I would like a weapon health system, complete with either more abundant repair kits or specific gunsmithing kits for certian weapons.

I would however not like a system that was based on shots fired. A percentage system like what Draco122 suggested would be better, as then you could increase the percentage. Perhaps even go above 100% and make the weapon shoot more accurately than it normally would.

Rather than repair kits, you should be able to canablilize weapons parts like Dosh Dosh suggested. Say you have an AK, bolt is starting to grind a little because of the lack of lubrication. Find another AK variant and you can canabilize parts from it and repair your own bolt. Forget repair kits, I'm throwing that out of my post.

[DoshDosh 62]

On another note, imagine they added random weapon jamming related to weapon conjunction like they did in Far Cry 2/Fallout 3+NV? It would be rib-crushingly hilarious to read all the QQ posts stemming from that.

[Draco122 412]

Have you every played S.T.A.L.K.E.R.? we should introduce a weapons system similar to the one in that game. You find weapons in varying states of condition, there is no way to repair them, and weapons jam and break altogether.

I have, however I didn't really like STALKERS mechanics on weapon health, because it was such a buggy game you'd sometimes find weapons that degrade absurdly fast and others that you can go the entire game without a problem.

In this I'd love to see a weapon condition system and even have some weapons have specific traits in reliability, like for example the AK series of rifles being way more reliable than the M16 series of rifles, but this is just an example

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

please explain how.

We don't have the ability to maintain our weapons which we would in real life.

A properly maintained AK would not stop working after 700 rounds. Even one that wasn't maintained at all probably wouldn't stop working that quickly.

It's just artificial, and too organized, it lacks the randomization of real weapon failures. In real life your weapon could possibly fail after the 3rd round.

[jetao2008@hotmail.com 175]

In real life your weapon could possibly fail after the 3rd round.

I don't get the constant need to compare the game to real life, since in real life there are no zombies, this is a game after all.

In my opinion there is no need to add a feature like this, but anyway, this is just my opinion.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Fenrig

[sparta436 46]

We don't have the ability to maintain our weapons which we would in real life.

A properly maintained AK would not stop working after 700 rounds. Even one that wasn't maintained at all probably wouldn't stop working that quickly.

It's just artificial, and too organized, it lacks the randomization of real weapon failures. In real life your weapon could possibly fail after the 3rd round.

I edited my original post. The new suggestion is not artificial in anyway and will make perfect sense in game

[hishnik 23]

So lately on the forums, theres been alot of whining about people with m107s being invulnerable and then whining from the players with the advanced weapons that they should get to keep their guns, well I propose a solution.

WEAPON HEALTH

This will be an accelerated weapon mechanic that makes weapons degrade in accuracy and condition as they are used. This way the advanced weapons that people always complain about stay, while the people that have them get to keep them instead of being punished for their hard work.

Every weapon will have a cap on how many shots it can fire before it dies. Weapons can be found in varying conditions/ states of disreapair. Parts will start to wear out, become less effective, and break down as you use your weapon.

Stuff like AKs benefit from lasting longer than western rifles but lack accuracy. Western rifles like M4s make up for reliability and accuracy, but die out faster.

I propose (as far as weapon health goes)

AK variants> FN FAL> L85>M4/M16 (this is purely an example)

Something reasonable for sniper rifles and semi only firearms. I really have no idea what the cap should be but it should at least be plausible and adjusted to each sniper.

When your weapon health gets low and your weapon starts to become less and less effective, you must go out into Chernarus and search for the same weapon. Say you have an m4 thats low on health. You have to find another m4 so that you can cannibalize parts from it and repair your own weapon.

Weather conditions will also effect your weapon, when it rains your weapon health will degrade slightly faster (because, with rain comes mud and thats stuff gets into your gun). Weather conditions effect you AND your weapon, therefore your weapon becomes an extension of yourself.

As an added problem, your weapons will jam and misfire, if the misfire is bad enough when the weapon health is really low, the weapon will blow up in your hands and cause you to start bleeding.

I thought this idea up because i feel that the game is too easy when you get a silenced gun (which i have had plenty of). I'm not a noob complaining "OMG WTF I KEEP GETTING ONE SHOT KILLED BY AS50s IN CHERNO WTFBBQ!!!!???"

I am merely a bandit in a clan seeking to make the game just a bit more difficult for people at the top of the food chain.

Search button, not so much?

http://dayzmod.com/f...on-maintenance/

At least do the diligence of finding out who else suggested, and how it is different

Edit: in real life your ammo could fail for variety of reasons, including weather conditions affecting the trajectory of the bullet travel ;).. .you sure you want to bring 'real life' into this?

Edited July 11, 2012 by hishnik

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I edited my original post. The new suggestion is not artificial in anyway and will make perfect sense in game

It's still going to be artificial becasue people who know how to maintain weapons in real life are not able to transfer those skills into the game.

While your system might make perfect sense on paper, in practice people are going to rage over the unrealism that happens when this mechanic has its effect.

If I was going to suggest something along these lines I would want to add in a gun cleaning kit, and the weapons would get a green bar similar to magazines, when that bar gets close to empty the weapon requires cleaning. If you neglect to do this and the bar goes to nothing THEN and on then would your weapon have a random chance to jam or stop functioning. At that point you would be required to use the cleaning kit to clear the jam and get it working again.

[sparta436 46]

Edit: "in real life your ammo could fail for variety of reasons, including weather conditions affecting the trajectory of the bullet travel ;).. .you sure you want to bring 'real life' into this?"

The fact that your ammo could fail or your new AK could just break on the third round is irrelevant. These events are all HIGHLY unlikely. I was suggesting a mechanic to keep well armed players on their toes, not be realistic to the tee

[DoshDosh 62]

It's still going to be artificial becasue people who know how to maintain weapons in real life are not able to transfer those skills into the game.

While your system might make perfect sense on paper, in practice people are going to rage over the unrealism that happens when this mechanic has its effect.

If I was going to suggest something along these lines I would want to add in a gun cleaning kit, and the weapons would get a green bar similar to magazines, when that bar gets close to empty the weapon requires cleaning. If you neglect to do this and the bar goes to nothing THEN and on then would your weapon have a random chance to jam or stop functioning. At that point you would be required to use the cleaning kit to clear the jam and get it working again.

I don't think the realism comparison really fits into this game despite the fact that Arma 2 and DayZ are commonly assumed by most players to be the "realistic shooter". I think in relation to other FPS games on the market they are, but I don't think it's enough to simply compare them to real life (might as well add crapping and sleeping to gameplay elements). I think this is a great idea because it forces gameplay at the endgame to become more dynamic, rather than allowing highly geared players to simply camp in a forest with a lake and live quietly until the game servers get taken down, or have bandit snipers hunker down with plenty of ammunition, some food and drink and never have to move.

I'm saying that as someone who's become bored of the endgame, where essentially there's no threat to you after you have the best gear aside from server hoppers.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

The reason I dislike your idea so much is the lack of any avoidance. This idea that a weapon is doomed from the start really rubs me the wrong way.

But, then adding in a way to avoid the failure just circumvents the whole idea of end-game weapons failing. So it's all just pointless in my eyes.

[ZomboWTF 527]

good sniper rifles are allready hard to find, the main problem here is that ammo is glitched and unlimited when used right

make the ammo scarce as f*ck problem solved

and i dont think anyone would live long enough to see his weapon health go to zero, or people would just keep stashing weapons from farming loot spawns

[hishnik 23]

It's still going to be artificial becasue people who know how to maintain weapons in real life are not able to transfer those skills into the game.

While your system might make perfect sense on paper, in practice people are going to rage over the unrealism that happens when this mechanic has its effect.

If I was going to suggest something along these lines I would want to add in a gun cleaning kit, and the weapons would get a green bar similar to magazines, when that bar gets close to empty the weapon requires cleaning. If you neglect to do this and the bar goes to nothing THEN and on then would your weapon have a random chance to jam or stop functioning. At that point you would be required to use the cleaning kit to clear the jam and get it working again.

You should check out the threadi linked here, and created originally, i covered exactly that.

You cannot have system like this without the proper ways of identifying it.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/23253-different-spin-on-weapon-maintenance/

Edit: "in real life your ammo could fail for variety of reasons, including weather conditions affecting the trajectory of the bullet travel ;).. .you sure you want to bring 'real life' into this?"

The fact that your ammo could fail or your new AK could just break on the third round is irrelevant. These events are all HIGHLY unlikely. I was suggesting a mechanic to keep well armed players on their toes, not be realistic to the tee

Actually, the fact that your Russian made ammo will not work in your US made AR based system (m4/16 etc) is VERY likely. Russian made ammo has berdan based primer, and requires much harder hammer hit, which happens to be problematic for a lot of AR systems, thus having a trigger click, but no round shot. (i dealt with this issue quite a lot over last 1.5 years IRL)

So, yeah, no, it is much more common that you'd think

and i dont think anyone would live long enough to see his weapon health go to zero, or people would just keep stashing weapons from farming loot spawns

My original suggestion (in the thread i linked) while heavier on tracking, suggested that you keep track of the weapon. So if the 3-4 owners of the weapon before you picked it up didnt care much for it - you're screwed, and off to find that field kit :) Otherwise, like you said, with average life expectancy at 38mins, and most people taking zombies out with either melee or pistols, no rifle will ever break :)

[sparta436 46]

@hishnik

why would there be american made AKs in a former soviet state?

Also, all the ammo you find with ARs would have been left there by american troops.

All these facts may be true, but Rocket is aiming for "authenticity" not absolute realism.

You obviously know more about real steel firearms than i do, i admit that.

Edited July 11, 2012 by sparta436

[Trolling R3bel 9]

Have you every played S.T.A.L.K.E.R.? we should introduce a weapons system similar to the one in that game. You find weapons in varying states of condition, there is no way to repair them, and weapons jam and break altogether.

A gun jam can be easily fixed, especially if its a winchester/henry repeater type of gun, plus in those games weapons degrade way faster than they do in real life. Real life you just clean the barrel and bolt(for bolt action weapons), and wipe off finger prints(can cause rusting but it would take years).

[KnT47r 51]

I own a WWI .303 (pretty much the Lee in this game) used by my grandfather. It went through the war and then didn't get much use (or love) at all until I turned about 15. I oil the parts maybe once every 2-3 years and keep it as clean as I can but that is literally it as far as looking after it goes. It still shoots straight, fires every single time (dodgey bullets not included) the trigger is pulled and is probably one of the more reliable weapons in my collection.

So tell me, why do we need weapon health when IRL an almost 100 year old rifle that went through a world war lives for so long with minimal upkeep?

I'm a no for this reason

[sparta436 46]

I own a WWI .303 (pretty much the Lee in this game) used by my grandfather. It went through the war and then didn't get much use (or love) at all until I turned about 15. I oil the parts maybe once every 2-3 years and keep it as clean as I can but that is literally it as far as looking after it goes. It still shoots straight, fires every single time (dodgey bullets not included) the trigger is pulled and is probably one of the more reliable weapons in my collection.

So tell me, why do we need weapon health when IRL an almost 100 year old rifle that went through a world war lives for so long with minimal upkeep?

I'm a no for this reason

Its a mechanic meant to influence gameplay, not to be totally realistic. You have to be completely ignorant to think that an AKM will fire a couple hundred rounds and break. I too realize that you can shoot thousands of rounds through pretty much any gun before it requires any serious mantenance