What MineZ is Doing Right, and What DayZ Could Learn From It.

[gizm0 96]

1. MineZ has a very clear "Friendly" stance that is easy to see and duplicate without compromising offensive ability.

2. Grouping up has great benefits, while solo play isn't punished.

3. MineZ's weapons are naturally less threatening, promoting group play and easily identifying bandit intentions.

4. Bandits are easily identifiable by unique player skins and easy-to-read nametags.

This are all good points and I haven't seen why some of these can't be added to dayz mainly, 1 and 4 (the unique skins part). I mean I don't really see a down side to those 2 things being added.

[guidez 180]

Unique skins are dumb. I don't instantly start wearing an orange jump suit if rob a candy store in real life, do I? So why the frak should I magically wear a bandit skin in a zombie apocalypse if you entered my territory?

[guidez 180]

And solo play is not punished in DayZ: I play solo just fine. #1 is just dumb as well.

And #3? For goodness sakes. These are freaking guns, not slingshots or sticks.

[gizm0 96]

Unique skins are dumb. I don't instantly start wearing an orange jump suit if rob a candy store in real life, do I? So why the frak should I magically wear a bandit skin in a zombie apocalypse if you entered my territory?

But you wouldn't look like everyone now would you?

[Scrugz 1]

Read through this and the thing that I definitely agree with is that zombies need to be much more of a threat. I find it essential to the game that they get harder. It's DayZ after all, the Z obviously standing for zombies. Not DayB for bandits. Also, I think that players should be able to customize their appearances in DayZ someway or another. Everyone looking alike gets confusing.

[diepepsi@gmail.com 22]

NIce post, I agree with most or all of it.

High powered sniper rifles, and military gear should be around in the game, but very very low on ammo. Such as, finding clips that are empty or half empty and having to combine them for a full clip.

Practice Ammo control, and I promise, someone will take a winchester over the m16, when the m16 has 10 rounds and the winchester has 100.

But we may keep the m16 in our bag :)

More low grade weapons would make battles more serious, and would help focus group activities. But high powered (aka, long range) ability's need to stay in the game, just get limited to "really need to kill you" rather than "really want to kill you" banditry.

[septuscap 42]

Practice Ammo control, and I promise, someone will take a winchester over the m16, when the m16 has 10 rounds and the winchester has 100.

More low grade weapons would make battles more serious, and would help focus group activities.

If I'm low on ammo and I see another player, I'd pop in the head for his ammo. That is how full loot works. I already HAVE my group, there is no reason for me to take the risk of trying to befriend you. Especially if I spot you a mile away b/c you're running on the fucking road, why would I want some one like that in my group.

[Huuwap 25]

- Add a "wave" animation with no delay.

Sure, I'm down with that.

- Make Zeds harder to take down solo.

Sure, I'm down with that.

- REDUCE, not REMOVE high-powered weapon counts. CZ 550 will still be there for all your sniping needs. This is as simple as removing military loot from Deerstands.

Consider the setting and obvious military presence. Arms of all types would be scattered in a real world situation, provided military occupancy happened and the infection spread.

- Adding further player customization to allow for unique identification.

Sure, I'm down with that.

- Player nametags at close range for further identification.

Remove nametags completely. Require communication for identification ;).

As for encouraging friendly play by strangers...you really can't trust anyone. Find a group and play with them consistently. If this happened in the real world, you bet your ass I wouldn't invite strangers to my table.

[Seradest 2]

Why everyone use the extreme example everytime anyone post an good idea.

char customization i a must hafe in this mod/game

why not first customize the face and hair ?

and clothes like all gray,green,broun and other dark colors.

[AllYoYens 34]

While bandits only account for ~18% of players, they account for over 40% of deaths.

Death is a pretty big downside, wouldn't you say?

Bandits are constantly putting themselves in harm's way. Their lifestyle is naturally more dangerous and therefore they die far more often.

And what are their advantages, pray tell? Because 99% of the time a bandit kills someone that player has no loot the bandit could use. Most experienced bandits have the gear and items they need. They kill for pleasure. Their only "advantage" is playing the game in a way that is interesting and compelling for them.

And calling them "assholes" for doing so reveals you not as someone who is overly concerned with DayZ's core concept or particularly interested in improving the game, but just as someone who dislikes people who enjoy PvP.

DayZ might not be for you? I don't know. That's up to you to decide but "asshole bandits" are a big part of the game, and a big reason why the otherwise mundane tasks in the game take on an element of extreme emotional intensity, uncertainty and risk.

Most DayZ veterans understand that without the presence of bandits and their "asshole" behavior, the game would quickly become a stale loot collection pinata.

Where did you get those statistics?

[opticalshadow 27]

Read through this and the thing that I definitely agree with is that zombies need to be much more of a threat. I find it essential to the game that they get harder. It's DayZ after all, the Z obviously standing for zombies. Not DayB for bandits. Also, I think that players should be able to customize their appearances in DayZ someway or another. Everyone looking alike gets confusing.

rocket already replied lootable skins are a planned feature.

as far as zombies being mroe of a threat, im sure it will come, but somethign you have to look at, and something rocket has brought up multiple times. zombies are seldom the actual threat in zombie genre.

weather its dawn of the dead, walking dead, 28 days later, carriers or zombieland what ever movie or series you look at, zombies are more of an area of denial object. they force people in isolated and crowded situations. the major threat in all of these things, is the otehr people. weather its arguments over whats moral, or a strife in power. if its love, or if its supplies and survival. the majority of the plot, and time in the movie where drama and thrill builds and plays out isnt between zombies and humans, its between the humans themselves.

rocket sees this, and he points it out, and also points out DayZ emulates this. Yes the zombies kill people, they are dangerous, they are the main protaginost. but the greater threat is still otehr survivors. and just like in those movies, the zombies are area of denial. they control how we have to move, what we can do, you can fight though them or avoid them, but they are still forcing you into a situation where life is harder, supplies are dangerous to get. everyone experiences this, and its down to the humen behaviour to sort out priorities. sadly, this often means that weapons and food, are more valuable then life in alot of situations.

even in groups you watch on youtube, people who are friends in real life, who play with eachother, you will see, that dispite this, when teh situation turns sour, they wont risk that m204 or that GAZ to save their friends life, the supplies are simply worth more then the life.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Where did you get those statistics?

Vipeax kindly shared them here.

[matt.gilmurray@gmail.com 46]

I can see it now the glorious noob migration millions and millions of noobs running around waving to everybody.

[z64dan 17]

Pretty sure all of the feelings in this thread can be easily summed up with this picture.

I agree with the OP on most points. The zombies need to be more difficult. The zombies need to be roaming the country side (even near sniper hills, gosh what an idea!) The weaponry needs to be skewed towards civilian (there's like 20 towns/villages and only 2 small military outposts, don't you think most of the military weapons would be broken/out of ammo by now?)

Anyone ever been in a fucking deer stand in real life? Who leaves their AK 74 in a fucking deer stand? Nobody. Why is the military base full of usable weapons, unlimited ammo, and dead soldiers? Were the soldiers fucking retarded? This whole world of Chenaraus doesn't make a lick of sense, and this guy (the OP) posts a suggestion on how to MAKE THE GAME MORE REALISTIC, and everyone goes bonkers.

Grow up, you guys. He has some good suggestions. The nametags one will never happen, but I hope gestures (waving, etc), zombie difficulty/areas of infection, and weapon availability gets changed in the game, or the OP is right. It will just remain a huge CoD map with a side order of retarded zombies that are easily dispatched.

Edited July 12, 2012 by z64dan

[slyder73 94]

If I'm low on ammo and I see another player, I'd pop in the head for his ammo. That is how full loot works. I already HAVE my group, there is no reason for me to take the risk of trying to befriend you. Especially if I spot you a mile away b/c you're running on the fucking road, why would I want some one like that in my group.

And THIS is the great PvP gameplay that brings 500,000 players here in just a few months.

What makes sense alone does not make sense in a group. Additional game dynamics like group/social interactions and results have rarely or NEVER been done in FPS games before.

Thanks for the post. As with any other forum for a video game, most of the posts are triggered by emotional reactions without thinking, coloured by the posters not knowing each other and thinking it is ok to just be dicks and think of themselves all the time.

Just play for a few months people. Try single play, try group play. Try being friendly and try not being friendly. When the game is done and past Beta....which will be LONG after it's current Alpha (we play to test) stage, THEN come back and complain if all the feedback and bug reports and OBJECTIVE (meaning when you die it is not the end of the world) gameplay are still making you think there is a balance issue. Then come back and post that you have a problem with a gameplay mechanic and you're likely to get a somewhat reasonable discussion.

[slyder73 94]

Where did you get those statistics?

Those stats were posted on other threads by one of the Devs. They have been well discussed. Sorry, I can't remember the thread title or dev name for posts search. You will have to do the research yourself.

[ingruo 5]

Well OP MineZ is doing nothing right that DayZ could learn from, as you said they are two entirely different games. MineZ may try to copy the concept of DayZ but why would Rocket want to back track the game for the worse. DayZ is great how it is, the difficulty of non block characters not fighting with swords makes it all the better in its own. It thrives from its difficulty without it the game would allow you to lose interest fast as you would have every item you could ever need with minimal work. As well as the fact in Minecraft it takes several hits to kill and on DayZ usually a select few bullets. I rambled off track with this post but you've just made a proposition to ruin this game completely, to make it something the little kids will flood because it would be just another run and gun game with no challenge.

[zipper 69]

I honestly wish all characters, items, and vehicles got wiped with every major update that added/removed features. That way everyone has to work their way back up when, say, loot spawns change or an exploit is fixed.

Also help re-enforce that we are here to TEST.

We are here to test. And wiping everything does not help test the game. As I said in a different thread covering the same topic, unless specific respawn rates are being tested, wiping everything would hurt testing. You would have to wait for people to gather all the items in the game in their inventories before bugs and glitches with the new patches were seen. It doesn't help, it only hurts.

[Dr. Toros 8]

Over all, every single thing you compared between teh game had one thign in common, it punished one playstyle while benifited another. Day Z, as said by rocket, will not judge you, it will not punish you for how you want to play. MineZ on the other hand does. MineZ is geared twords peaceful gameplay between humans, it takes every step short of disabling PvP to actually make it unviable. it ignores the players wish and imposes rulse and sanctions. if you want safty in Day Z you can group up and make a military and protect the land, if you want safty in minez, just play, because teh entire game is designed to cater to those players.

For 25 bucks the game doesnt offer any reason for me personally want to try it. it seems like someone wanted a zombie game, with little codeing required, and wanted it to be rainbow friendly.

there is nothing Day Z could learn IMO from MineZ while keeping its integrity, except of course, of what not to do.

See, the current game punishes everyone who doesn't shoot on sight. How is that not the same thing, except it's ok because you like killing everyone on sight?

[Kaizen (DayZ) 0]

...and your suggestions are horrible and would COMPLETELY change the mod into something else.You would remove ALL the points which make Day Z popular. You fail to realise that the game in its current buggy as hell state _still_ has so many people because they LOVE what Day Z is doing, and that is breaking the mold of hand holding, 'structured' games.Day Z is not Minecraft, and things that work in one DO NOT work in the other.

May I suggest going to play MineZ instead of trying to make DayZ into something its not?

How will his suggestion change the mod into something else completely? I personally believe people with sniper rifles camping and KoS for hours on end at one location isn't how this game is supposed to be played. Learn the roots of DayZ before you respond with your retarded comment. DayZ is about the tension of human interaction in this survival apocolypse not sitting there with your A50 shooting people for no reason.

OP and his suggestion is trying to imply that with fewer drop rate of "high powered rifle (a50s, m4a1, one shotters) will create an incentive for people to group together because it will be harder to take down a hoard of zombies with just a .22 makarov or a 1866.

Obviously OP doesn't want ALL high powered rifles/snipers to be eliminated from the game. Learn to interpret idiot before you bash on somebody's "horrible" idea.

But i definitely do disagree with changing bandits skin etc... that is probably a bad idea but other than that his idea is all that bad

Edited July 13, 2012 by Kaizen

[septuscap 42]

See, the current game punishes everyone who doesn't shoot on sight. How is that not the same thing, except it's ok because you like killing everyone on sight?

This is an absurd argument. I could say the game punishes you for running in the open shooting into the air for all to hear. And it does, RIGHTFULLY SO. If you just run up to random strangers and go "HI ARE U FRIENDLY?" you deserve to be shot in the face. If you turn your back on some one with a fully automatic weapon who you don't know and hasn't said a word to you, you deserve to be shot in the back.

Use cover when conversing with some one you don't know. Have a buddy on overwatch while you test the waters and poke your head out to greet him. Try and see from his behavior whether he'll be hostile. Is he trying to get a good shot on you? Does he sound honestly glad to finally meet another friendly?

I cba'ed to find the quote, but rocket has basically said that right now, the bad guys are winning. And while he will implement cool end-game features for social/friendly players (base building, etc), it will be up to you to defend yourself.

[z64dan 17]

This is an absurd argument. I could say the game punishes you for running in the open shooting into the air for all to hear. And it does, RIGHTFULLY SO. If you just run up to random strangers and go "HI ARE U FRIENDLY?" you deserve to be shot in the face. If you turn your back on some one with a fully automatic weapon who you don't know and hasn't said a word to you, you deserve to be shot in the back.

Use cover when conversing with some one you don't know. Have a buddy on overwatch while you test the waters and poke your head out to greet him. Try and see from his behavior whether he'll be hostile. Is he trying to get a good shot on you? Does he sound honestly glad to finally meet another friendly?

I cba'ed to find the quote, but rocket has basically said that right now, the bad guys are winning. And while he will implement cool end-game features for social/friendly players (base building, etc), it will be up to you to defend yourself.

You're mixing up games with reality... In real life, even after a zombie apocalypse, most people would be happy to see another survivor, and be willing to talk or trade with each other.. There wouldn't be the widespread murder that's common on DayZ.

Yes, right now if you run in the open and make yourself known, or approach someone without seeing if they're friendly first (which is hard to do anyway) then you're retarded. But is that how it should be? Shouldn't we really be more afraid of the zombies? Should the characters be as accurate as they currently are with guns? Didn't we all just wash up on the beach with a bandaid and a bottle of tylenol? Why are we all expert marksmen? Has anyone actually shot guns in real life? It's pretty difficult, and a hard skill to master. Even at the shooting range with no threat of other people or zombies to bother me, I don't always hit the bullseye at 10 yards (30 feet). Don't even get me started on sniper rifles. Those guys have to go through months or years of training to become the experts that roam the forests of DayZ.

We all have to think outside the box with ideas for this game that don't punish any certain play style, but there's too many people on the forums that can't take the nerf bullet.

"TAKE AWAY MY SUPER POWERED SNIPER RIFLE, WHICH MY CHARACTER HAS SOMEHOW IMMEDIATELY MASTERED??? HOW DARE YOU!"

[gizm0 96]

I just watched seananners minez video and what I found odd is that they only came across one person who went out of their way to kill them. Which I found interesting as to why more players are willing to work together in minez but not dayz.

[adamtheheretic 106]

Got to page 4 and raged hard at the idiots responding to this thread, it's funny that the good reasonable responses also had good grammar and spelling... It seems the CoD kiddies got vocal and like their M107's. Well, honestly I like some of your idea's.

[MineZ has a very clear "Friendly" stance that is easy to see and duplicate without compromising offensive ability.]

I like the idea but it's pretty much in the game already, like for those that play as medics and help out randoms, I use the sit function which stops me from using any weapons and shows that I'm not going to attack them... Other than that, I generally swap to my sidearm and lean left and right, I've been shot at every time but at least it's known in the metagame that leaning like that is friendly, it's just dicks that choose to attack. Oh, as well as lowering your weapon but most people haven't assigned a key to that, I wonder why...

[Grouping up has great benefits, while solo play isn't punished.]

I honestly don't see the point of this section, I know solo play shouldn't be punished in Day Z but I think it's impossible to justify that being in a group isn't more advantageous than being alone.

[MineZ's weapons are naturally less threatening, promoting group play and easily identifying bandit intentions.]

I think it'd be pretty hypocritical of my to go against this given my thread, I'm really happy with this idea but I think this is the part of the post most people have a problem with, for some reason they treat the idea of rare weapons as stupid even though in a real situation people wouldn't be armed to the teeth with military gear.

Someone pointed out that Chernarus is being occupied by two opposing military forces however that's assuming that Day Z has the same backstory as Arma rather than just a random town in Russia...

My Post to show support of this.

[Bandits are easily identifiable by unique player skins and easy-to-read nametags.]

I like this idea too, probably because it once again goes hand-in-hand with my idea's. I don't like the idea of bandit skins but if I understand your post, it's more just remembering a skin that someone else has picked themselves which I like. ZedsDeadBaby's post about player identification is a really good idea and explains exactly why and how "nametags" should be implemented now and for when there are a vast array of skins to choose from/customisation.

[LT.Sacred 9]

Time Glitch, TOTALLY agree with you.

In a zombie apocalypse you really think everyone would have military gear?

sorry but no ^^

Reducing high powered snipers would not punish banditry.... in fact I think solo play is being punished right now because of all the damn snipers in the game.

Edited July 15, 2012 by LT.Sacred