Multiple Characters Possible! Enter Non-HIVE Servers.

[rinaun 26]

[Original Title: Hive Server Problems (want multiple chars? click here!)]

Hello Gentlemen!

So it has become pretty evident that the HIVE servers (The Database server/s that connect your character data to each hosted game server) are becoming increasingly bogged down. It's taking an absurdly long time to connect, when it isn't completely down from DDOSing or just too many users. I have read that the HIVE server hardware has failed a few times already. Aside from the constant lag from the HIVE server, some players would also like to have more than one actual character in DayZ without having to buy multiple CD keys. This is only feasible with multiple HIVE servers. My solution? break the HIVE servers up; divide the load.

I'm currently running a test HIVE server (No you can't have the IP) and I get an amazing amount of compliments on load times even with meager upload and 100-200 people connecting. Quartering the traffic to each HIVE and keeping them unlinked could solve so much latency problems. This would also allow you to have HIVE databases for countries, rather than having one giant database on the west coast hosing everyone not around there. Another huge perk is having multiple characters. If there are 4 HIVE databases (all located around the world) people would be able to make more than one character; in this situation 4 characters would be possible. I'm not sure about you but I'd definitely

enjoy having a character I could teach people on, and a character I could play bandit on etc.

There are downsides, obviously. I will list a few arguments against running multiple HIVE servers.

Running a private server increases the chances of hacking. Scripts will be made on a private server and ported over to official! (rocket)

This will happen regardless of if I open a private server or not. Hackers will be hackers. I have a feeling this was thrown in there just because its the only valid excuse I could find. Hackers would still just host their own private servers. The best security possible is keeping up to date and informed.

Rocket makes no money off of DayZ and he offers the HIVE for free. It's rude to host private servers and bypass his set up system!

Totally untrue in a sense. Rockets buddies seem to be rolling in cash considering it takes a licensing fee to run the server. I could be crazily wrong, but I'm pretty sure the webmaster here runs the DayZ licensing website. Besides that, If I run my own hive server then there should be NO reason I have to pay for a license; I'm not using any linked data! I'm in the end helping him by not loading his database up, instead loading mine. I see no issue sans him wanting to keep what bankroll he currently has set up rolling.

It's too confusing for new users and will throw them off of playing and just ruins the game play in general. Admins would spawn items and stuff!

Some truth and lies in this one. Aside from explaining what hive is and the difference between the two, there is no confusion. Anyone whom connects to MY servers gets their character from MY server, and official servers (HIVE) get theirs from rockets' database. What is not to get?

On the admin side, yes admins CAN spawn items............but what kind of system admin is that? That is more on a person-to-person basis. Even on official hive servers you are now hearing of admins whom reset servers after they get killed. You just have to make sure no admin access/powers are given to anyone else but the main administrator (and never will be; EVER!).

Finally, these HIVE offshoots could bring better gameplay to light. If enough people enjoy a certain HIVEserver vehicle spawn setup or such (vehicle spawns are controlled by HIVE server) devs could make changes accordingly.

Tell me your thoughts; rip me to shreds!

EDIT: It seems that there is less of an issue that I thought running a Non-HIVE server; large amounts of these servers have appeared overnight. The one I'm currently running has experienced a fourfold increase in playerbase. I'm ATM in the process of purchasing a dedicated server with 10TB of bandwidth to set up a secure secondary HIVE system (located in Los Angeles I think) for users whom want a second character or a safer more controlled experience in Day Z. With a Non-HIVE server you eliminate a large amount of server hopping and disconnecting players. Not to mention I can ban most hackers from my servers with ease instantly.

[FrostDMG 398]

Ok so if you and your buddies settles on a server and all your shit is server bound and then the server fucks off into the ether, the fuck do you do

[rinaun 26]

Ok so if you and your buddies settles on a server and all your shit is server bound and then the server fucks off into the ether' date=' the fuck do you do

[/quote']

Well that is an issue and that is why I didn't suggest completely off the chart (random multiples) HIVE servers. It's possible but I think it would do more damage than good. What would be a perfect solution would to have 2 HIVE databases for each country and these HIVE databases are supported internally via the game servers and not the current setup of keep charging all the game server admins to run their servers on one giant frankenstein MYSQL system.

To argue your point all together, what happens like last week when someone DDOSes the ONE HIVE server? what the fuck do you do? Wait a few days? With this solution at least if someone fucked off with your data you could go find someone who has been hosting a HIVE server for a long time and say lesson learned. The way I would distinguish between hive servers is to assign HIVE servers a number and place that in brackets right after "DayZ" in the names. I.E "DayZ [HIVE1] dasdasfgsdsdF" "DayZ [HIVE1] billys server" "DayZ [HIVE2] jimmies server". To make this work the only thing that would need to happen is the main SQL file to be given to the other 4 servers. That, or they could just start wiith a clean slate.

[FrostDMG 398]

I am pretty sure Rocket and Co. don't have an unlimited supply of dough and judging by the amount of people playing and the nature of the mod, the traffic from and to the hive is off the charts, so I'm not sure if they could afford to have another one backing up the primary hive :/

[rinaun 26]

I am pretty sure Rocket and Co. don't have an unlimited supply of dough and judging by the amount of people playing and the nature of the mod' date=' the traffic from and to the hive is off the charts, so I'm not sure if they could afford to have another one backing up the primary hive :/

[/quote']

I wouldn't ask rocket to do this, but you do realize they are paid a licensing fee to run that database right? They certainly don't have an unlimited amount of cash but they ARE getting paid to run the server. Whether they are using the funds correctly/efficiently has yet to be seen.

With the load split of multiple HIVE servers you wouldn't need to be dumping so much money into overheating hardware as they are. As someone who works in silicon valley it sounds like they didn't talk to a system analyst or provide him with the correct user increases over the past 6 months to calculate correctly. It's not hard to see week one had 2k users, week 2 had 20k users, and week 3 had 200k users. I'm not sure what they were planning for week 4 :huh:

Waiting for someone to tell me that if we ran multiple databases that if one crashes all of them would crash (cascading failure). With multiple databases the load would be split efficiently if one goes down. If multiples go down (which they never should) that will be a problem, however.

[rinaun 26]

Reasonable Timed bump.

[rinaun 26]

Man these forums are fast.

[Soda (DayZ) 0]

I been on the server for the last few hours and i am really enjoy the quick times for coming in to the server and find a char.

[angels_armogeden_@hotmail.com 0]

i run on this server on an almost all day every day basis and i find the server curently to be fine untill the small amounts of lag and disconnection with the more ppl that enter that can be avoided if with a bigger path

[fenrix 9]

unlinked hive servers are fantastic imo. far superior in speed and stability than the central database ones.

yeah theres a greater chance of admins doing stupid stuff or people taking advantage of privelaged status. but. if there were lots of them like there are for other games people would just do the old. move to a different server method of playing the game.

you know.. like we all used to do... back in the old days?

and... theres also a crapload of them masquerading as regular dayz servers right now in case you guys had not noticed.

if you join a server and suddenly find you have started from scratch... theres a high possibility your on one XD you also might have noticed it took you about 10 seconds to get in as opposed to several minutes.

but yes i agree multiple official hives with one or two per country are the way to go. otherwise your just going to get the crap ddos attacks constantly and repeatedly.

a central database is the WEAKEST method of running a database from a stability, security and database saftey standpoint.

Im also sure rocket could easily get the major server providers like vilayer, hfb ect. to host up some servers just to run hive on.

[rinaun 26]

Bumping again for people to see this. The only way to have multiple characters will be multiple HIVE servers.

In other news, I have a host willing to host multiple servers and my HIVE system (SJHIVE) plus instructions for DayZ server owners to switch HIVE databases.

[fenrix 9]

you realise as soon as you said that rinaun you got this thing labled for moderation and swift deletion. just saying.

[BossFi 90]

I'm not convinced!

Some servers do take a while to load, but leaving and connecting to another server loads fast. Going back to the other server and it will be slow again. So the slow loading problems ive seen are nothing to do with the hive server, they have been server specific.

[rinaun 26]

Not really. A server located in for instance Germany has to connect to HIVE in west coast. The reason it feels like it is server to server basis is because some US servers are hosted very close and the farther away from the hive server increases issues. A HIVE located on each side (US EAST, US WEST, UK1, DE 1, AUS1,) would be the easiest fix and would allow 5 characters for people willing to switch/deal with latency. This would make every server run as fast as the best one you've connected to so far. People from germany connect to my server currently with the database on a close server and it's amazing the load time differences. It would also save tons of costs in hardware and makes just much more sense in terms of networking.

[fenrix 9]

this is partially true bossfi.

BUT.

this is merely an issue with the way dayz reports to the hive.

on a central hive all servers are talking to one central server for retrieving and sending information.

now doing this requires the game servers to be placed in waiting lines to send information back and forth. when servers have lots of players the time it takes to go through the list of players and update them increases.

new players joining increases this time yet again.

on a local server. its only communicating with a database located on the same computer or nearby. so the data is sent and retrieved at the read-write speed of the harddrives.

you would only really notice performance gains when the server was heavily populated.

a heavily populated server on the official hive? can take upwards of a minute to get you in game.

a heavily populated server on a local database hive? can take 10-15 seconds. usually less.

central hive must be pretty beefy to handle the connections its getting spammed with, not to mention the huge bandwidth costs it must be getting hit with.

but its still a major bottle-neck in the save data system.

the suggestion is basically break up the server into a series of nodes that mirror the central database so we can get logins happening faster because the nodes could be localized to countries allowing servers in those countries to connect to physically closer databases.

if you then mirror the information to the other hives when a player logs into them. your player moving to a new region for login might take a bit longer to load the first time but from then on the player gets fast login speeds.

thats pretty much the suggestion as I understand it. you could even break it down to databases on each server which then mirror back to the central one but that would be prone to abuse by unscrupulous server owners.

[rinaun 26]

this is partially true bossfi.

BUT.

this is merely an issue with the way dayz reports to the hive.

on a central hive all servers are talking to one central server for retrieving and sending information.

now doing this requires the game servers to be placed in waiting lines to send information back and forth. when servers have lots of players the time it takes to go through the list of players and update them increases.

new players joining increases this time yet again.

on a local server. its only communicating with a database located on the same computer or nearby. so the data is sent and retrieved at the read-write speed of the harddrives.

you would only really notice performance gains when the server was heavily populated.

a heavily populated server on the official hive? can take upwards of a minute to get you in game.

a heavily populated server on a local database hive? can take 10-15 seconds. usually less.

central hive must be pretty beefy to handle the connections its getting spammed with' date=' not to mention the huge bandwidth costs it must be getting hit with.

but its still a major bottle-neck in the save data system.

the suggestion is basically break up the server into a series of nodes that mirror the central database so we can get logins happening faster because the nodes could be localized to countries allowing servers in those countries to connect to physically closer databases.

if you then mirror the information to the other hives when a player logs into them. your player moving to a new region for login might take a bit longer to load the first time but from then on the player gets fast login speeds.

thats pretty much the suggestion as I understand it. you could even break it down to databases on each server which then mirror back to the central one but that would be prone to abuse by unscrupulous server owners.

[/quote']

This post explains it extremely well.

[WildGunsTomcat 78]

My clan runs a dayz hive server. Search for frat in the filter. Much faster load speed than the big hive.

[Lukio (DayZ) 24]

What you are proposing is basically what every Freeshard does for certain popular MMOs. Instead of using the offical character database/central server, you are offering your own homebrew version without being in accordance with the DayZ dev team..

You are right that one single database server of course is very vulnerable, but its up to the devteam to take care of this. There are several methods like load balancing, cloud applications and clustering that will eventually even things out, yet for these things to be set up takes a while for such a small team. When its time for a decentralized, but synchronized hive setup I'm sure that someone from DayZ dev team will look into it.

[BossFi 90]

Not really. A server located in for instance Germany has to connect to HIVE in west coast. The reason it feels like it is server to server basis is because some US servers are hosted very close and the farther away from the hive server increases issues. A HIVE located on each side (US EAST' date=' US WEST, UK1, DE 1, AUS1,) would be the easiest fix and would allow 5 characters for people willing to switch/deal with latency. This would make every server run as fast as the best one you've connected to so far. People from germany connect to my server currently with the database on a close server and it's amazing the load time differences. It would also save tons of costs in hardware and makes just much more sense in terms of networking.

[/quote']

But im in the UK connecting to the servers hosted in the same country. Like yesterday UK 20 was taking 3 mins to get into game. yet UK 26 and UK 25 where fast loading. Same with DE servers.

[rinaun 26]

My clan runs a dayz hive server. Search for frat in the filter. Much faster load speed than the big hive.

Good to hear! I've noticed if you keep the battleye patch to the latest version you can avoid huge amounts of hackers. Just a tip I've picked up :)

---

Not really. A server located in for instance Germany has to connect to HIVE in west coast. The reason it feels like it is server to server basis is because some US servers are hosted very close and the farther away from the hive server increases issues. A HIVE located on each side (US EAST' date=' US WEST, UK1, DE 1, AUS1,) would be the easiest fix and would allow 5 characters for people willing to switch/deal with latency. This would make every server run as fast as the best one you've connected to so far. People from germany connect to my server currently with the database on a close server and it's amazing the load time differences. It would also save tons of costs in hardware and makes just much more sense in terms of networking.

[/quote']

But im in the UK connecting to the servers hosted in the same country. Like yesterday UK 20 was taking 3 mins to get into game. yet UK 26 and UK 25 where fast loading. Same with DE servers.

Can I get pings on the DE servers that work well and that do not? I'd love to see this data and be proved wrong in some of my argument :).

[gobacktogo 29]

who would run the new hives? you? ur friends? someone else? in this case hacking and cheating would be a HUGE problem. and just because hacking and cheating are a problem already you can not seriously believe that giving people the ability to host their own hives would not HUGELY increase it.

and ofc you could change servers over and over again. but it does not help the game if there are 100 private hives and 90% of them will have cheating admins..

[fenrix 9]

I like the homebrew ones running the various anti cheat mods available. regular dayz servers are not allowed to run anti cheat.

which makes me lol so hard.

some of the ones I have seen have anti-cheat functions built into the database so it bans and kills people who have hacked stuff in thier inventory and stuff like that.

technically homebrew ones are more secure and more hack free than regular ones for multiple reasons.

1. they can run thier own anti cheat programs

2. they are more likely to have an admin on who knows what they are doing

3. they are more likely to have a close knit community of players who report hackers

4. they are more likely to ban hackers simply because admins do not have to ask for permission.

[BossFi 90]

My clan runs a dayz hive server. Search for frat in the filter. Much faster load speed than the big hive.

Good to hear! I've noticed if you keep the battleye patch to the latest version you can avoid huge amounts of hackers. Just a tip I've picked up :)

---

Not really. A server located in for instance Germany has to connect to HIVE in west coast. The reason it feels like it is server to server basis is because some US servers are hosted very close and the farther away from the hive server increases issues. A HIVE located on each side (US EAST' date=' US WEST, UK1, DE 1, AUS1,) would be the easiest fix and would allow 5 characters for people willing to switch/deal with latency. This would make every server run as fast as the best one you've connected to so far. People from germany connect to my server currently with the database on a close server and it's amazing the load time differences. It would also save tons of costs in hardware and makes just much more sense in terms of networking.

[/quote']

But im in the UK connecting to the servers hosted in the same country. Like yesterday UK 20 was taking 3 mins to get into game. yet UK 26 and UK 25 where fast loading. Same with DE servers.

Can I get pings on the DE servers that work well and that do not? I'd love to see this data and be proved wrong in some of my argument :).

I only connect to servers under 50 ping. no difference in pings between servers I connect to. So your have been prooved wrong already!

[rinaun 26]

My clan runs a dayz hive server. Search for frat in the filter. Much faster load speed than the big hive.

Good to hear! I've noticed if you keep the battleye patch to the latest version you can avoid huge amounts of hackers. Just a tip I've picked up :)

---

Not really. A server located in for instance Germany has to connect to HIVE in west coast. The reason it feels like it is server to server basis is because some US servers are hosted very close and the farther away from the hive server increases issues. A HIVE located on each side (US EAST' date=' US WEST, UK1, DE 1, AUS1,) would be the easiest fix and would allow 5 characters for people willing to switch/deal with latency. This would make every server run as fast as the best one you've connected to so far. People from germany connect to my server currently with the database on a close server and it's amazing the load time differences. It would also save tons of costs in hardware and makes just much more sense in terms of networking.

[/quote']

But im in the UK connecting to the servers hosted in the same country. Like yesterday UK 20 was taking 3 mins to get into game. yet UK 26 and UK 25 where fast loading. Same with DE servers.

Can I get pings on the DE servers that work well and that do not? I'd love to see this data and be proved wrong in some of my argument :).

I only connect to servers under 50 ping. no difference in pings between servers I connect to. So your have been prooved wrong already!

That isn't very reliable data you are showing, compared to rocket admitting they have burned up more than 2 servers running the HIVE server.

[gouki 1]

Running a private server increases the chances of hacking. Scripts will be made on a private server and ported over to official! (rocket)

Yeah I'm sorry, but thats not how it works. Rocket meant singeplayer version of the game where they can test their scripts and whatnot. Most of the "alternate-hive" servers have battleye running too. So you will still be banned for the obvious hacks.

Also admins dont have superpower in this game. They cant do shit but restart/kick/ban and, sadly, change the time.