Create awareness and protect player privacy from content creators

[Salvatore Spampinato 10]

4 hours ago, DefectiveWater said:

If you want your privacy, you don't share it on the internet... games included.

I would be fine with that but I don't agree with the rest.

Nah Bro wants all the Streamers to ask the people theire playing with to be recorded before recording💀 like,how?

[nemorus 260]

40 minutes ago, Salvatore Spampinato said:

A threat?💀 Bro your way of thinking its so skibidi toilet ahhh

give him some slack - not everyone know english well enough to understand figures of speech. And there's nothing wrong about that. Just to keep things clear: we say that someone digged himself a grave when ones words/doings are working against him; when one tries to accomplish something but only manage to hurt himself/his case in the process.

[Riddick_2K 174]

I understand that Google translations are not very "precise" (I know it well and for a long time, unfortunately), but I think that... shades of insults aside... the speech is quite clear, even if I continue to read people who cannot understand... or do not want to understand:
I am not arguing to run for some party... or hoping to make these programmers take some kind of action, it will never happen on these topics... and I see that those who follow this forum "have a hard head" (HARD, nothing else... ok?).
What is difficult to understand that:
*) Private recordings for personal use are NOT a problem.
*) Private recordings, put on YT for "personal" use (FREE), bother me a little, but I can put up with it.
*) Recordings made specifically to earn money must NOT be made using my person, my "doll" or anything I can do in the game WITHOUT my explicit permission!
Using players, unaware and/or without asking their permission to make a video "to sell" (in any form) to make money, is EXPLOITATIVE. And this, as I see it, is INFAMOUS.

What is still unclear about this.
I put it translated by Google and in the original language.

============= In original language =============

Cosa c'è di difficile da capire che:
*) Le registrazioni private per uso personale NON sono un problema.
*) Le registrazioni private, messe su YT per uso "personale" (GRATIS), mi danno un pò fastidio, ma posso sopportarlo.
*) Le registrazioni fatte apposta per guadagnare denaro NON devono essere fatte usando la mia persona, il mio "bambolotto" o qualunque cosa io possa fare in gioco SENZA il mio permesso esplicito !
Usare i giocatori, inconsapevoli e/o senza chiedere loro il permesso per fare un video "da vendere" (in qualunque forma) per fare soldi, è da SFRUTTATORI. E questo, per come la vedo io è INFAME.

===========================================

 

I don't understand why you can't understand that using people (like players in "Streamers" videos) to make money from them (they use videos not for personal "enjoyment" and for some friends, but to expand the channel and make money from them... it becomes a kind of "work of exploitation of others" and no longer "enjoyment") is a dirty and badly done thing.
Are you all children brainwashed by "social media" and unaware of the society that surrounds you?
Are you okay with someone exploiting you to make money, against your will, without even asking permission, (mainly, in these cases, because they don't want to find a "serious job"...) while you work your ass off every day to bring home the bacon?!?
Are you still all living off your parents?
Have you ever tried to become independent by working seriously?!?

🙄

[DefectiveWater 537]

2 hours ago, Riddick_2K said:

*) Recordings made specifically to earn money must NOT be made using my person, my "doll" or anything I can do in the game WITHOUT my explicit permission!
Using players, unaware and/or without asking their permission to make a video "to sell" (in any form) to make money, is EXPLOITATIVE. And this, as I see it, is INFAMOUS.

As I said, everything on the internet is public and can stay there forever. Don't share your private info on the internet (games included) if you want that private info to stay private and there won't be an issue.

It's common internet etiquette and common sense.

[nemorus 260]

So you're just angry that some people found a way to make money like that? I understand - i really do. But that's it.

Streaming is not as perfect as you say. Most streamers are nobodies. You need years of creativity to carve something for yourself - to become memorable for masses, viewers, people who don't care either way. And then you might still need to do "honest hard work" IRL because without that your balance will be all red. People think that streaming is easy but most of them never ever tried doing that. You need patience, a character, voice, something to say, equipment, programs, sufficient internet connection and platforms, knowledge how to use all that... Few streamers managed, i'd say that very few. Few are on full time mode. Most are doing secondary (yet main) work IRL to stay afloat.

People - normal players - lose nothing by default when being recorded. Its their individual decision to interact with others and become an actor, volunteer really. You don't need to play in any show unless its a strict PVP situation. Then you kill or become a victim.

[Salvatore Spampinato 10]

20 hours ago, nemorus said:

So you're just angry that some people found a way to make money like that? I understand - i really do. But that's it.

Streaming is not as perfect as you say. Most streamers are nobodies. You need years of creativity to carve something for yourself - to become memorable for masses, viewers, people who don't care either way. And then you might still need to do "honest hard work" IRL because without that your balance will be all red. People think that streaming is easy but most of them never ever tried doing that. You need patience, a character, voice, something to say, equipment, programs, sufficient internet connection and platforms, knowledge how to use all that... Few streamers managed, i'd say that very few. Few are on full time mode. Most are doing secondary (yet main) work IRL to stay afloat.

People - normal players - lose nothing by default when being recorded. Its their individual decision to interact with others and become an actor, volunteer really. You don't need to play in any show unless its a strict PVP situation. Then you kill or become a victim.

Im sure he Will not ready all that and  Will reply saying that youre wrong or that youre the normal person in society that makes It very bad lmao,you know why i didnt explain all that? Because its freaking common sense,like if someone cant understand It,thats It,he wants to be ignorant on that fact and he wants to put all the fault on the Streamers somehow,he seems like a Karen

[Salvatore Spampinato 10]

21 hours ago, DefectiveWater said:

As I said, everything on the internet is public and can stay there forever. Don't share your private info on the internet (games included) if you want that private info to stay private and there won't be an issue.

It's common internet etiquette and common sense.

He doesnt want to understand It

[Riddick_2K 174]

On 8/11/2024 at 11:09 AM, DefectiveWater said:

As I said, everything on the internet is public and can stay there forever. Don't share your private info on the internet (games included) if you want that private info to stay private and there won't be an issue.

It's common internet etiquette and common sense.

I've already written this many times and at this point I have to assume that you DON'T WANT to understand and you are acting in bad faith.
I am NOT talking about personal information!
Reread what I wrote!
I am talking about using my game, without asking permission, to make money. And this bothers me terribly and, in my opinion, it should (could) even be illegal.
Like with certain TV programs, where they film unaware citizens to play pranks: to broadcast those videos they MUST ask for "release", that is, written permission from the interested parties, otherwise they cannot broadcast the video in public.
It is different for interviews where you know that you will be broadcast on TV and you have the possibility to choose whether to do it or not.
The same thing should happen in video games, if you do it for profit!
What is it that you don't want to understand?
Are you also a "Streamer"?

[Riddick_2K 174]

On 8/11/2024 at 11:48 AM, nemorus said:

So you're just angry that some people found a way to make money like that? I understand - i really do. But that's it.

Streaming is not as perfect as you say. Most streamers are nobodies. You need years of creativity to carve something for yourself - to become memorable for masses, viewers, people who don't care either way. And then you might still need to do "honest hard work" IRL because without that your balance will be all red. People think that streaming is easy but most of them never ever tried doing that. You need patience, a character, voice, something to say, equipment, programs, sufficient internet connection and platforms, knowledge how to use all that... Few streamers managed, i'd say that very few. Few are on full time mode. Most are doing secondary (yet main) work IRL to stay afloat.

People - normal players - lose nothing by default when being recorded. Its their individual decision to interact with others and become an actor, volunteer really. You don't need to play in any show unless its a strict PVP situation. Then you kill or become a victim.

I never said it was easy or cheap, just that you must NOT do it using me, my doll and my game! Especially if you don't declare it openly first and/or don't ask for my explicit permission to broadcast it.
Also read what I wrote above, it still applies.
Are you a "Streamer" too?
Why do you defend those "parasites"?

[nemorus 260]

"(...)Like with certain TV programs, where they film unaware citizens to play pranks: to broadcast those videos they MUST ask for "release", that is, written permission from the interested parties, otherwise they cannot broadcast the video in public.(...)" - you are mixing two different things to make a point.

In-game you're borrowing already existing assets to play. You're a client not an owner. You don't need to use your voice at all; Interaction is completely optional - not like in real world. There is nothing original by default that you could call "individual" and fight for it in a court of law. "Content creators" always use something to "create" their content - in this case "DayZ". But they cannot do that without consent of the studio:

"Your Rights

You may play and use the game for non-commercial purposes only.

You may create footage (screenshots and videos) of the game and share it online (e.g. on YouTube or Twitch). We reserve the right to take down such footage in case it shows or promotes hacking, cheating or any other distasteful, obscene or unlawful behavior. We give You permission to make money (e.g. advertisement revenues) from this footage, but only if You add enough of Your own content (for example commentary) to the footage which would justify it"

Besides that there is also a rule that you - as "DayZ" user - already accepted:

"User-created Content

If You create any content ("content") using the game or make it available through the game, You may do so, but there are rules.

This content must not infringe anyone's copyrights or author rights, it must not be offensive to people or illegal in any other way.

For the benefit of the entire User community, You give us an irrevocable permission to use, copy, modify and adapt anything You create using Our game and share with other Users of Our game in multiplayer or as an online download (including but not limited to in-game objects or terrain composition). You also agree that We allow other people to use, copy, modify and adapt Your content under the terms of this license."

https://www.bohemia.net/community/licenses/dayz-end-user-license

Of course you can go to the court of law if you feel that your rights were abused but there really is no basis for that. The only thing you actually lose in-game is time. And its your decision as well.

 

Edited August 12 by nemorus

[praisejollycoop 3]

12 hours ago, nemorus said:

https://www.bohemia.net/community/licenses/dayz-end-user-license

 

Online Interactions

As in any other online application, be extremely careful when interacting with other people online in the game: never share Your real life identity (including email or other personal details) with strangers unless You are entirely sure it is safe. We do not know who You can encounter in the game and what their intentions could be.

 

I don't think a EULA is the best place for such a warning to reach its audience; it's just ticking a box.

While I agree that players should be aware of what they share online and that it's their responsibility, for some, the extent to which their online play might be shared is beyond their imagination.

 

Edited August 13 by praisejollycoop

[Riddick_2K 174]

On 8/12/2024 at 3:05 PM, nemorus said:

"(...)Like with certain TV programs, where they film unaware citizens to play pranks: to broadcast those videos they MUST ask for "release", that is, written permission from the interested parties, otherwise they cannot broadcast the video in public.(...)" - you are mixing two different things to make a point.

In-game you're borrowing already existing assets to play. You're a client not an owner. You don't need to use your voice at all; Interaction is completely optional - not like in real world. There is nothing original by default that you could call "individual" and fight for it in a court of law. "Content creators" always use something to "create" their content - in this case "DayZ". But they cannot do that without consent of the studio:

"Your Rights

You may play and use the game for non-commercial purposes only.

You may create footage (screenshots and videos) of the game and share it online (e.g. on YouTube or Twitch). We reserve the right to take down such footage in case it shows or promotes hacking, cheating or any other distasteful, obscene or unlawful behavior. We give You permission to make money (e.g. advertisement revenues) from this footage, but only if You add enough of Your own content (for example commentary) to the footage which would justify it"

Besides that there is also a rule that you - as "DayZ" user - already accepted:

"User-created Content

If You create any content ("content") using the game or make it available through the game, You may do so, but there are rules.

This content must not infringe anyone's copyrights or author rights, it must not be offensive to people or illegal in any other way.

For the benefit of the entire User community, You give us an irrevocable permission to use, copy, modify and adapt anything You create using Our game and share with other Users of Our game in multiplayer or as an online download (including but not limited to in-game objects or terrain composition). You also agree that We allow other people to use, copy, modify and adapt Your content under the terms of this license."

https://www.bohemia.net/community/licenses/dayz-end-user-license

Of course you can go to the court of law if you feel that your rights were abused but there really is no basis for that. The only thing you actually lose in-game is time. And its your decision as well.

 

OK.
First rule:
"Your Rights

You may play and use the game for non-commercial purposes only."
This seems VERY specific to me!
And if you read the rest, talk about the game, NOT talk about the other players...

Not even the B.I. CAN arrogate to itself the right to "own" the "image rights of others".

The game (DayZ) is its property, what I do in its game (regularly purchased) is MY property!

Let me give you an example:
If you want to film the Eiffel Tower, you will have to ask permission from the owners of the Eiffel Tower. They can also allow you to film the tower and sell the footage, but they CANNOT authorize you to film all the tourists who climb it, interview them and use them for your video. The ownership of the image of each tourist who climbs the tower, even if he himself is on someone else's property, is HIS personal and ONLY HE can decide if someone can use them to broadcast them in any media!
Only in video games is there this "anomaly" that no one has contested yet... until it harms a "Big Interest" (some big company that makes a big case... or if Europe started to take an interest in this too, and not only in ruining the lives and pockets of citizens with this [self-harming] "green wave" that will not change anything, given that Europe only pollutes for a little more than 10%.
And, in any case, we are talking about the generic game, not specifically in "multiplayer". You know that you can play it alone and set up your own private server.

Here, in your private server you can do what these rules impose on you WITHOUT having to ask anything else from anyone.

In the "public" ones (open to all) you also have to consider the other players who ARE NOT THE PROPERTY OF B.I. which CANNOT authorize you to treat them as "game pieces"!

Dude... we players are human beings, not pieces of property of Bohemia Interactive!!!!!

 

Then, if continue reading, you will also find this paragraph:
"User-created Content"
With written:
"This content must not infringe anyone's copyrights or author rights, it must not be offensive to people or illegal in any other way."
Well, as already well specified, what "I do" in the game is "MY intellectual property", not "public" or B.I.'s!
As if I, a tourist, started declaiming Shakespeare from the balcony of the Eiffel Tower.
MY performance remains MY property, and if you want to film it and broadcast it on TV, YOU MUST ask MY permission, NOT that of the owners of the Eiffel Tower.

You really don't want to understand this, do you?!? 😮

Are you also a "streamer"? 🤨
Why all this defense of that race of "exploiters"?!? 🤔

I know that I will never be able to make such a big case to put an end to this dirty behavior, I am a "common idiot" and only a Big Company (maybe) could do it... it all depends on the interests at stake, because it is only money that moves people and governments (history and current news highlights this perfectly, ALL over the world)... but I will do everything I can to at least make people think and not be taken (and exploited) for a ride by these dirty individuals.

🙄

 

 

[nemorus 260]

I got you the rules you accepted before playing - you can talk about them with BIs lawyers. Now i'm gonna tell you something from the heart since you're interested in my standing. I don't care about all that problems with "image". Its all worth nothing; People waste their time trying to protect their meaningless egos because they truly believe its worth something. They think they're special and need tools to protect that because they themselves are weak and powerless. The problem of "rights" of walking, talking pile of bones.

If someone steals your work - the thing that allows you to buy food, warmth and security - then its worth fighting for. Because its about life and death. But if we're talking about performance of a clown - in a petty video game - then why bother wasting time? Let the clown be a clown.

Edited August 14 by nemorus

[Riddick_2K 174]

I don't think I well understood what you meant from Google translations.
Anyway.
*) The "problem" is NOT the lawyers of B.I., but rather those exploiters who use players to create content, sell it and... escape a "real job".
In my opinion, but it could be a problem of "translation", even them... if they do it in public servers and using unaware players... they would be going against the same rules of B.I.
*) If you don't care about your image, fine... you can do whatever you want with it... IT'S YOURS. But you can't expect everyone else to do the same.
*) This is not about "being special", this is about "not being used" by the sly guy on duty.
I'll try to explain it with a metaphor.
If you have a vehicle, it doesn't have to be a Ferrari or a Bugatti... it can also be an old and humble Zastava that I do NOT want any cyclist to hitch up to be towed for free, not even for a few meters, especially if he uses it to earn money at my expense. Obviously it's a metaphor, it will never be precise, okay?
*) I don't agree that a video game, since it is "just" a video game, should not be looked after and followed with care. And in any case, even if it is "just" a video game, it always remains a question of "principle". Too many things go wrong (at least in Italy) because too few people have "principles" that are more important than money itself. (long and complex speech)
Then it is obvious that if I have many problems, I will list them in order of priority (ordered according to the severity of the problem and its effects) and I will try to work harder on the first one on the list... but this does not mean that the others do not count. Otherwise we should leave out thefts because robberies exist... then we should leave out robberies because violence exists... then leave out violence because murders exist... what are we focusing on? Only mass murders? Everything else is minor and not worth dwelling on?
I'm sorry but I don't share the philosophy.

If I understood correctly from Google translations...

P.S.
Anyone, as far as I'm concerned, can easily be a clown, but if he does it to earn money and uses me against my will in his show... that's NOT okay with me and it will be "war on clowns"!
Precisely because work is quite a "pain in the ass" (the bosses are almost all scammers and exploiters and the institutions "don't see, don't hear and don't speak"... come to Italy, you'll see what nice... "jobs"... especially if you don't have "friends"...) that when I have time to relax in video games I would like to be in peace and not have to suffer with exploiters here too...

[praisejollycoop 3]

I would have loved to have seen a warning of sorts with the new update - its not too late to add one.

How do we condone "hidden camera" content from streamers like Smoke and TRMZ, who I'd consider ambassadors for the game. There is no justification for denying being a streamer while broadcasting to thousands.

[KA-74USER 39]

streaming is the lowest form of entertainment and i agree that streamers are parasites. I especially hate streamers after the massive insider access shill campaign by all major dayz streamers who totally sold us out and not a single one had any critiques of the new changes. 

but i also think if you say anything on the internet in a public place that there should be no expectation of privacy, just like in public irl

[praisejollycoop 3]

I agree that Internet users should protect their own privacy.

That said, many Dayz streamers exploit the fact that people still believe they are having a private conversation. 

If you ask a streamer why they don't reveal that they are a streamer to to other players, and why they deny it when asked, they will tell you it's because the player would then behave differently.

What they mean is that they can't get they want from willing participants, so they intentionally decieve.

Their content is more like Taxi Cab Confessions, without the signed waiver and renumeration at the end. 

 

 

[Riddick_2K 174]

6 hours ago, KA-74USER said:

but i also think if you say anything on the internet in a public place that there should be no expectation of privacy, just like in public irl

The fact that it is "open to the public" does not mean that anyone can do what they want, especially with other people.
The character of the game is not a completely "virtual" thing... the image is, but the behavior and words are my personal ones... and no one has the right to use them for their own commercial purposes. Because this is the cowardice, they do not film for themselves, or to remember personal moments (I would have nothing against it), but they film to use this content, impossible without "using" other people, to make money on it without the specific consent of the "used". It is pure exploitation.
Only that it is committed in a "world" still not well understood by the institutions, in continuous evolution and, substantially, always a "wild west", especially on the novelty and certain "social" practically unknown to the "politicians of the moment" who are the ones who should legislate to "fix" society.

 

4 hours ago, praisejollycoop said:

Their content is more like Taxi Cab Confessions, without the signed waiver and renumeration at the end.

 

Exactly... this is the cowardice and exploitation that should be directly prohibited by the institutions of the various countries...
This is something that is already prohibited in many countries, only that online it is difficult to prove and contest it.
We would need special laws and "special means" to fight it.

[boggle 49]

I can understand the concern as I'm a huge privacy advocate. But I just don't see the concern. 

 

It's up to you, like everywhere else online and in real life, how much information about yourself you disclose. Whether they're streaming or not. 

 

It's internet etiquette 101. I don't see a purpose for Bohemia to implement some privacy rule against streaming. It would inevitably be complicated and since this would be the onlu game doing that, we would lose a large player base. Since it seems everyone streams now days because unfortunately most people just don't care about their privacy. 

[praisejollycoop 3]

I think a warning on a loading screen is probably the only practical measure Bohemia can take, and I think that they should because of the platform they are providing. Recorded phone calls beep and cameras on phones make a shutter sound. Video games with extended player interaction have room for a warning.

I disagree that being the only/first game to do so, or potentially losing a player base are valid reasons to allow exploitation of vulnerable people.