Dayz's Flawed Foundations: Movement and Gunplay

[SleeperZ 50]

@kyiara Can we get some feedback on this post its actually been two years

[lakevu 75]

1 hour ago, SleeperZ said:

@kyiara Can we get some feedback on this post its actually been two years

I just scrolled through every page and i see no comment from even kyiara.

and i dont believe that tag you have for her is correct. usually it shows up in blue

but i find it very. disappointing. to say the least that not one person on the dev team has entertained this post. and at the very least they dont even look at the forums. gone are the days of the beginning where the creators would spend hours talking to people and taking in ideas and were obsessed about this game. because it use to be GREAT!

Edited November 28, 2023 by lakevu

[lakevu 75]

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[lakevu 75]

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Merry Christmas! and happy 10 years to DayZ! 

Heres to hoping the game starts going down the right path. the path it was always meant to from the beginning. that of a being a Zombie survival SIMULATOR. and not that of its current path of DEGRADING and CHEAPENING its experience to nothing more than a cheap ARCADE shooter with a big map. Which by doing, robs all of us, of an EXPERIENCE of immeasurably higher value. an experience that is only possible by being a SIMULATOR and not a cheap shooter. Where the world feels so REAL that you cant help but think that it just MIGHT BE, and where the people and experiences you meet feel even more SURREAL because of it.

Heres to DayZ! and hoping that we all get the HIGHEST possible experience that we have the potential of getting from it.

 

Edited December 25, 2023 by lakevu

[Jevez 28]

5 hours ago, lakevu said:

Merry Christmas! and happy 10 years to DayZ! 

Heres to hoping the game starts going down the right path. the path it was always meant to from the beginning. that of a being a Zombie survival SIMULATOR. and not that of its current path of DEGRADING and CHEAPENING its experience to nothing more than a cheap ARCADE shooter with a big map. Which by doing, robs all of us, of an EXPERIENCE of immeasurably higher value. an experience that is only possible by being a SIMULATOR and not a cheap shooter. Where the world feels so REAL that you cant help but think that it just MIGHT BE, and where the people and experiences you meet feel even more SURREAL because of it.

Heres to DayZ! and hoping that we all get the HIGHEST possible experience that we have the potential of getting from it.

Hey Lakevu.

I just wanted to say that I appreciate your persistence in regards to this topic. Even if I don't always agree with the exact wording, I usually do agree with the overall sentiment and appreciate it.
Whilst I'm someone who personally cares a lot about the issue, I'd find it hard to repeatedly engage the conversation when it feels like no progress is being made, so yeah.. respect and thank you for that.

Here's to hoping indeed.. wishing many good things for DayZ in 2024.

Merry Christmas to you and the DayZ dev team.

[lakevu 75]

On 12/25/2023 at 8:01 AM, Jevez said:

Hey Lakevu.

I just wanted to say that I appreciate your persistence in regards to this topic. Even if I don't always agree with the exact wording, I usually do agree with the overall sentiment and appreciate it.
Whilst I'm someone who personally cares a lot about the issue, I'd find it hard to repeatedly engage the conversation when it feels like no progress is being made, so yeah.. respect and thank you for that.

Here's to hoping indeed.. wishing many good things for DayZ in 2024.

Merry Christmas to you and the DayZ dev team.

yes. hello. and thank you.

i appreciate your appreciation and I'm glad to see there is another person who understands, I hope, what i have said here. and can see the effects these changes have had on the game on how we PERCIEVE and EXPERINCE it.

but if you do want to help. not just me but YOURSELF. then share this with others or leave a comment every now and then when the post starts to fall, to refresh it and bring it to the top so even more people will have the chance to read it and maybe we can get this game back on track to where it should be.


I miss the old dayz and i miss the DEEP experiences i use to have inside of it that i no longer can have because the game has been cheapened, degraded and simplified because of these changes to the game. making it a shooter and not the DEEP, SURVIVAL, SIMULATOR that it once was. with all the emotional experiences that became possible because of that

[Jevez 28]

4 hours ago, lakevu said:

I miss the old dayz and i miss the DEEP experiences i use to have inside of it that i no longer can have because the game has been cheapened, degraded and simplified because of these changes to the game. making it a shooter and not the DEEP, SURVIVAL, SIMULATOR that it once was. with all the emotional experiences that became possible because of that

I know how you feel, for me I loved the overall design of the gunplay the most, the feedback from firing a weapon just felt so visceral and satisfying. I've never enjoyed firing a weapon in any other game more than I did in 0.62.
It felt like you were actually holding something powerful, guns felt alive, like a separate entity and it was your job to control it, to "tame the beast" if you will, and as a result landing successful shots felt amazing.

The only thing holding it back in my eyes was all the damned bugs.. yet in the very same patch they fixed most of the bugs they also redesigned the entire game. Man.. I don't think I've ever felt so simultaneously excited and disappointed.

6 hours ago, lakevu said:

but if you do want to help. not just me but YOURSELF. then share this with others or leave a comment every now and then when the post starts to fall, to refresh it and bring it to the top so even more people will have the chance to read it and maybe we can get this game back on track to where it should be.

I definitely try to engage with these type of posts when I see them and will continue to do so, however at times it can get exhausting when trying to interact with certain people, such as:

1. Players who joined after 2018 that only know the current version, yet argue against you anyway.

2. Players who did play before 2018 but like to say that everything was universally bad because the game was buggy/clunky, while ignoring the actual design of mechanics.

That gets tiring..fast, but hey, I'll always continue to like threads such as this one, write the occasional comment and suggest to devs that I'd like changes to movement/gunplay, in hopes that maybe someday we'll see a DayZ that fully utilizes its potential.

[lakevu 75]

18 hours ago, Jevez said:

I know how you feel, for me I loved the overall design of the gunplay the most, the feedback from firing a weapon just felt so visceral and satisfying. I've never enjoyed firing a weapon in any other game more than I did in 0.62.
It felt like you were actually holding something powerful, guns felt alive, like a separate entity and it was your job to control it, to "tame the beast" if you will, and as a result landing successful shots felt amazing.

The only thing holding it back in my eyes was all the damned bugs.. yet in the very same patch they fixed most of the bugs they also redesigned the entire game. Man.. I don't think I've ever felt so simultaneously excited and disappointed.

I definitely try to engage with these type of posts when I see them and will continue to do so, however at times it can get exhausting when trying to interact with certain people, such as:

1. Players who joined after 2018 that only know the current version, yet argue against you anyway.

2. Players who did play before 2018 but like to say that everything was universally bad because the game was buggy/clunky, while ignoring the actual design of mechanics.

That gets tiring..fast, but hey, I'll always continue to like threads such as this one, write the occasional comment and suggest to devs that I'd like changes to movement/gunplay, in hopes that maybe someday we'll see a DayZ that fully utilizes its potential.

i agree actually. and i think VISCERAL is the exact word i would use to describe it. .62 definitely had some great gunplay. it felt REAL. the recoil, the sway, the drag when changing directions. I WILL ADMIT. it wasnt perfect but it was extremely good for the EXPERIENCE it imparted upon the player. of making you truly feel GROUNDED in the world and making your mind think that THIS IS REAL.

as for your second part. yes. i completely understand. this is VERY draining for me aswell. for every reason you listed. BUT. this does not stop me. Because I KNOW that this is IMPORTANT. I KNOW what this game CAN BE and the EXPERIENCES it is possible of inducing that i have never had happen in ANY other game. experiences like camping out in the woods in the middle of the night on the big hill behind electro with some of my friends and almost feeling like IT WAS REAL. or having deep conversations about existence and life with strangers i met on the coasts of berezino. experiences that can only happen when the game feels REAL and behaves like it is. not when it acts like a cod shooter knockoff.

I have never had these experiences ever happen in this version of the game because of its now ARCADE attitude and mechanics that makes it IMPOSSILBE to take seriously like it was before. which i find IMMEASURABLY of higher value than quickscoping kids with mosins on northwest airfield and the rest of the shallow experience we have today.

I almost see it as a LOSS to MY LIFE. to see that those sort of experiences i can no longer experience EVER in my life anymore. which is why i think this is something that is UNQUESTIONABLY worth fighting for.  @Kyiara

[lakevu 75]

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[Aleksei Pankov 8]

In the latest major update of "Squad," a new shooting mechanic was introduced, arguably the most realistic in all of gaming history. It was such a groundbreaking change, that some people expected that the game will be abandoned.

Long story short, the new mechanics drastically reduced the pace of battle tactics. Before, you could walk and shoot; now, you can either walk or shoot, almost like in real life. I mean, you still can walk and shoot in that game, but will you hit the target? Previously, if you ran to a position—now you walk, so you don't arrive too tired (stamina = accuracy). Or if you encounter an enemy while running to a position, will you be able to aim and shoot effectively, being too tired?

Now you understand why some people thought that the game will die?

But it didn't.
It was extraordinary. It was something players had to get used to. But I've never heard players complain about the new gameplay update.

While from time to time, in every other shooter game (including the non-shooter DayZ sometimes), we still may hear complaints about the mechanics and exclamations like: "HOW!?", "WHY!?", "WHERE FROM!?" etc., when reacting to a sudden death or an event in the gameplay.

Many players really liked the new mechanics because they reduced the arcade component of the battle. And there are no more "surprises" in the game. If you're dead—you're dead, and you know exactly why this happened and what you did wrong.

Here are some main highlights:

1. When you move while looking through the scope, you don't see sh**. And the higher the magnification, the less you see (03:32): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEUU79Rr5BQ&t=212s

2. You hardly see the target after each shot, depending on caliber and magnification. This is a very natural effect of a shot (05:39): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEUU79Rr5BQ&t=339s

3. Suppression fire. Not just an effect that darkens the screen, but it makes you almost useless in battle—you can't aim and shoot efficiently while somebody is already shooting at you (12:16): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEUU79Rr5BQ&t=736s

4. The weapon fires when you pull the trigger, not only when you aim. If you didn't have time to raise your gun but pulled the trigger (because you panicked), you shoot the ground, or wherever the gun barrel is pointing at that moment (08:39): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEUU79Rr5BQ&t=519s

And this is how the actual gameplay looks with this mechanic (10:46): 

Some notes from my personal experience: 

• The guns feel more real and heavy in the updated "Squad"; you almost feel them hitting your shoulder.
• The scope's behavior looks very realistic. In reality, I have shot a couple of rifles with scopes, including an SVD, and here it behaves very realistically, replicating the same optical effects as in real life.
• You think more before any new enemy encounter, you plan the tactics a bit more, you look around a bit more. You have to. And I like it.

P.S. If some similar mechanics were implemented in DayZ, I think it would enrich the game, taking into account the game's hardcore survival aspect. Maybe next time, instead of instantly raising the gun and shooting, you decide to say "Hello" to a stranger?—Because you're too tired to shoot 🙂

 

Edited February 24 by Aleksei Pankov

[lakevu 75]

7 hours ago, Aleksei Pankov said:

In the latest major update of "Squad," a new shooting mechanic was introduced, arguably the most realistic in all of gaming history. It was such a groundbreaking change, that some people expected that the game will be abandoned.

Long story short, the new mechanics drastically reduced the pace of battle tactics. Before, you could walk and shoot; now, you can either walk or shoot, almost like in real life. I mean, you still can walk and shoot in that game, but will you hit the target? Previously, if you ran to a position—now you walk, so you don't arrive too tired (stamina = accuracy). Or if you encounter an enemy while running to a position, will you be able to aim and shoot effectively, being too tired?

Now you understand why some people thought that the game will die?

But it didn't.
It was extraordinary. It was something players had to get used to. But I've never heard players complain about the new gameplay update.

While from time to time, in every other shooter game (including the non-shooter DayZ sometimes), we still may hear complaints about the mechanics and exclamations like: "HOW!?", "WHY!?", "WHERE FROM!?" etc., when reacting to a sudden death or an event in the gameplay.

Many players really liked the new mechanics because they reduced the arcade component of the battle. And there are no more "surprises" in the game. If you're dead—you're dead, and you know exactly why this happened and what you did wrong.

Here are some main highlights:

1. When you move while looking through the scope, you don't see sh**. And the higher the magnification, the less you see (03:32): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEUU79Rr5BQ&t=212s

2. You hardly see the target after each shot, depending on caliber and magnification. This is a very natural effect of a shot (05:39): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEUU79Rr5BQ&t=339s

3. Suppression fire. Not just an effect that darkens the screen, but it makes you almost useless in battle—you can't aim and shoot efficiently while somebody is already shooting at you (12:16): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEUU79Rr5BQ&t=736s

4. The weapon fires when you pull the trigger, not only when you aim. If you didn't have time to raise your gun but pulled the trigger (because you panicked), you shoot the ground, or wherever the gun barrel is pointing at that moment (08:39): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEUU79Rr5BQ&t=519s

And this is how the actual gameplay looks with this mechanic (10:46): 

Some notes from my personal experience: 

• The guns feel more real and heavy in the updated "Squad"; you almost feel them hitting your shoulder.
• The scope's behavior looks very realistic. In reality, I have shot a couple of rifles with scopes, including an SVD, and here it behaves very realistically, replicating the same optical effects as in real life.
• You think more before any new enemy encounter, you plan the tactics a bit more, you look around a bit more. You have to. And I like it.

P.S. If some similar mechanics were implemented in DayZ, I think it would enrich the game, taking into account the game's hardcore survival aspect. Maybe next time, instead of instantly raising the gun and shooting, you decide to say "Hello" to a stranger?—Because you're too tired to shoot 🙂

 

absolutely and thank you for the response. and yes actually. squads gunplay changes is big factor in my mind when talking about this topic and i was amazingly surprised this changed happened. very few times if at all ive seen a game head in the opposite direction of moving from arcade to sophistication.

and yes i agree these changes would ABSOLUTELY enrich the experience. because you cant pretend to have a "real" life altering experience when the game itself is not real and doesnt even feel like it. when a game feels like and arcade deathmatch that is exactly the way it is going to effect your mind and how you perceive that experience. which i would argue is a complete degradation of what is possible of feeling in this experience. a "cut down" feeling of what could be really happening.

[Aleksei Pankov 8]

Yesterday I found out that (suddenly) the guns which use the same ammo deal different amount of damage. Not knowing this costed me life in my recent ambush which I organized with LAR. 😐 I expected the damage to be the same for all guns with the same ammo type, like Tundra or Blaze. Because amount of powder and bullet weight are always the same. But then I started googling it and now I know 🙂 

My fail is in the video below (no sound). I hit the ghili guy 3 times, but I still think that he fell down because of the broken leg (2nd hit), but not the actual shot 🙂 

 

Edited February 27 by Aleksei Pankov

[lakevu 75]

7 hours ago, Aleksei Pankov said:

Yesterday I found out that (suddenly) the guns which use the same ammo deal different amount of damage. Not knowing this costed me life in my recent ambush which I organized with LAR. 😐 I expected the damage to be the same for all guns with the same ammo type, like Tundra or Blaze. Because amount of powder and bullet weight are always the same. But then I started googling it and now I know 🙂 

My fail is in the video below (no sound). I hit the ghili guy 3 times, but I still think that he fell down because of the broken leg (2nd hit), but not the actual shot 🙂 

 

you think this should not be so?

[Aleksei Pankov 8]

For me it sounds natural. I would expect this (and I did 🙂). There are other parameters that may distinguish guns from one another: loudness, recoil, rate of fire, accuracy, weight etc. Moreover, if weight were to be considered in shooting mechanics, it could impact accuracy. A heavy gun, when aimed for an extended period while standing, could lead to swaying and hinder proper aiming.

Edited February 28 by Aleksei Pankov

[Pyongo Bongo 181]

On 2/24/2024 at 3:31 PM, Aleksei Pankov said:

.

Here are some main highlights:

1. When you move while looking through the scope, you don't see sh**. And the higher the magnification, the less you see

2. You hardly see the target after each shot, depending on caliber and magnification.

3. Suppression fire. Not just an effect that darkens the screen, but it makes you almost useless in battle

4. The weapon fires when you pull the trigger, not only when you aim. 

I totally agree with all except the covering fire making you scared.

In ArmA 2 DayZ mod I think getting shot at completely drained your stamina.

I have no opinion on this. Add it or don't :)

 

More realistic scope behaviour would be cool. More realistic and more immersive.

 

I have made posts about "the gun shoots whenever you pull the trigger" before.

We actually used to be able to shoot in full sprint, while F3 sitting, while falling, while jumping, while the gun was lowered and you were emoting (flipping off, greeting, pointing).

None of it useful but extremely fun and realistic.

That would be one of those "wow" effect features which make DayZ stand out, and would add all kinds of fun / insane / memorable moments.

[lakevu 75]

7 hours ago, Aleksei Pankov said:

For me it sounds natural. I would expect this (and I did 🙂). There are other parameters that may distinguish guns from one another: loudness, recoil, rate of fire, accuracy, weight etc. Moreover, if weight were to be considered in shooting mechanics, it could impact accuracy. A heavy gun, when aimed for an extended period while standing, could lead to swaying and hinder proper aiming.

yes. but that would only be true IF the gunplay was real. where right now none of that matters as the gun is literally LOCKED to the center of your screen. 

it would be cool and would add a whole nother dimension to the game having to learn about each weapon in the way you said. which would in effect give off the feeling of more "depth" to the game.

[lakevu 75]

1 hour ago, Pyongo Bongo said:

I totally agree with all except the covering fire making you scared.

In ArmA 2 DayZ mod I think getting shot at completely drained your stamina.

I have no opinion on this. Add it or don't 🙂

 

More realistic scope behaviour would be cool. More realistic and more immersive.

 

I have made posts about "the gun shoots whenever you pull the trigger" before.

We actually used to be able to shoot in full sprint, while F3 sitting, while falling, while jumping, while the gun was lowered and you were emoting (flipping off, greeting, pointing).

None of it useful but extremely fun and realistic.

That would be one of those "wow" effect features which make DayZ stand out, and would add all kinds of fun / insane / memorable moments.

is that true about arma 2? i dont remember that being the case.

the only thing about suppression i remember was this white flickering effect would happen when being shot at or something but it didnt seem to do anything but visual

LONG LIVE ARMA 2!

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