Suggestion: Make Zombies Zombies.

[Maxe (DayZ) 0]

Hi guys,

first of all this mod is amazing and it's principles is what I've always dreamed of in a multiplayer battle. The athmosphere of the anarchic world after the apocalypse is thrilling and hard to lure myself away from. However there are issues that effectively block immersion in the game world and I will talk here about the issue from which it suffers the most: Zombies.

Zombies are simply broken and in their current state they force the player into abusive behaviour in dealing with them. If this is actually an exploit can be debated, but using methods to take adavantage of the AI's poor pathfinding to advance your own goals should not be viable.

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Here are my suggestions:

-make them slower: Zombies in lore are undead and usually not very fast on their feet but in DayZ they are. I know that lack of speed on zombies may suggest lack of challenge in dealing with them. But having them chase after me at my own runaway speed gives me little choice than to use one of the methods described in this video, which is also abuse imho:

To combat this, make them immune to nothing but headshots. After all its only tiny bits of their brain still working, the rest is undead :) This will allow for players finding solutions to their zombie problem easier by giving them the chance to react in more diverse ways than simply just run for the next hill. In addition challenges remain in dealing with them when only headshots are fatal. The jerky movement of zombies will also not be as impactful when their movement speed is reduced.

Melee hits should always be fatal. Players who engage Zombies in melee are getting hit most of the time anyways and have to deal with the consequences (bleeding, broken bones etc.). Aiming your axe specifically for the head in melee combat would be too complicated imo.

- Zombie loot: I know its still alpha but I've been missing Zombie exclusive loot. For example: a player with a hunting knife (for example) should be able to gut a zombie to obtain zombie guts. Combine 5 units of zombie guts with a bandage and you'll get the possibility to cover yourself in zombie blood to make yourself undetectable by a zombie for a specific amount of time, like 10 minutes. To balance this add the chance of getting an infection/fever by using this method.

I think measures like these would add more immersion to the game and are just a few ways to make zombies better.

What do you think?

[Riis 22]

They're infected, not zombies, so stop blabbering about zombie lore...

[Maxe (DayZ) 0]

They're infected' date=' not zombies, so stop blabbering about zombie lore...

[/quote']

You're splitting hairs.

[ZedaH 0]

I agree, zombies need to be slow but require headshots to kill, in addition to this (not trying to hijack the thread) i also think the spawns need to be fixed, having zombies spawn on top of me and breaking my legs on the first hit every time i try to loot something is complete unrealistic, if you make X amount of zombies spawn in a town while no players are there, then when 1 or more players are in the town area no zombies will spawn untill all players leave the area (having the zombies not spawn would also make loot not spawn to stop players camping towns or areas to cheat easy loot)

Edit: also zombies hear from a further distance (like 1 shot and all zombies in the town would walk towards it) and if players try to lure zombies out of town to bug them somewhere to stop more spawning, the zombies will "roam" back to town.

[Riis 22]

Not really, do you know what kind of virus they're infected with? What it has done to their bodies? No you don't, so lets stop overthinking it and play the game, at some point im sure rocket will explain the hows and whats about the infection.

[QQmark 0]

i agree with the headshot only against zombies. the zombies need to be harder

[Maxe (DayZ) 0]

Not really' date=' do you know what kind of virus they're infected with? What it has done to their bodies? No you don't, so lets stop overthinking it and play the game, at some point im sure rocket will explain the hows and whats about the infection.

[/quote']

All I'm saying is that you're criticism isn't helping to advance the issue at all. This is a thread about making Zombies/Infected better for gameplay reasons, not to start a debate on what to call them.

[Riis 22]

Thing is your suggestions are based on what you've seen in movies, and what you've read in books about zombies.

What I would need from this game before I could come up with something to make them better for gameplay reasons is what has that virus done to them, does it increase their metabolism? Does it make their bodies produce massive amounts of adrenaline? Does it mutate them? what does it do? And how can we give the infected new properties and abilities etc. if we don't know that?

I might just be overthinking it, but as I said, I like to have background info before I can come up with suggestions about these things :).

So I apologise for criticising, but there's a reason as to why im doing it :).

[Maxe (DayZ) 0]

Thing is your suggestions are based on what you've seen in movies' date=' and what you've read in books about zombies.

What I would need from this game before I could come up with something to make them better for gameplay reasons is what has that virus done to them, does it increase their metabolism? Does it make their bodies produce massive amounts of adrenaline? Does it mutate them? what does it do? And how can we give the infected new properties and abilities etc. if we don't know that?

I might just be overthinking it, but as I said, I like to have background info before I can come up with suggestions about these things :).

So I apologise for criticising, but there's a reason as to why im doing it :).

[/quote']

OK fair point. But gameplay should be the focus on improvements. Making the game better and backing up design decisions with lore is a good method to do things. I used other lore to find justification for my suggestions. I think it makes more sense to have slow Zombies, than having rotting corpses with gnawed off legs run faster than Usain Bolt when they're after me. But that's just me :)

[Bat (DayZ) 230]

Thing is your suggestions are based on what you've seen in movies' date=' and what you've read in books about zombies.

What I would need from this game before I could come up with something to make them better for gameplay reasons is what has that virus done to them, does it increase their metabolism? Does it make their bodies produce massive amounts of adrenaline? Does it mutate them? what does it do? And how can we give the infected new properties and abilities etc. if we don't know that?

I might just be overthinking it, but as I said, I like to have background info before I can come up with suggestions about these things :).

So I apologise for criticising, but there's a reason as to why im doing it :).

[/quote']

This, plus zeds are coded under ambient life AI in engine (AI routines for animals). Means, EVEN with all the good intentions in the world, there will be strong technical limits to what can be achieved with them.

Doesn't mean we can't discuss it, but why not on one of the 1000 other threads that already discuss the exact same subject ?

[MiZTiiX 0]

people fail to understand that these "zombies" are not undeas, they are infected, they are just as agile if not more agile than humans, making them slower will make it less scary

[Maxe (DayZ) 0]

Doesn't mean we can't discuss it' date=' but why not on one of the 1000 other threads that already discuss the exact same subject ?

[/quote']

I used the forum search to find threads dealing with this specifically and didn't find anything. My bad if I've overlooked something.

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people fail to understand that these "zombies" are not undeas' date=' they are infected, they are just as agile if not more agile than humans, making them slower will make it less scary

[/quote']

I understand your position. But the game in its current state forces players to abuse game mechanics more than to come up with sound tactical plans to combat the situation. This is mostly why I suggested slower speeds.

[Bat (DayZ) 230]

... than having rotting corpses with gnawed off legs run faster than Usain Bolt when they're after me. But that's just me :)

They're not rotting corpses. They are infected with some sort of a rage virus.

Older infected that are starving/or have "rotting corpse" ARE in the game, they crawl or walk like monkeys.

[The Poacher 31]

Rocket has already addressed this suggestion.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=341&pid=2941#pid2941

Slow zombies would require many' date=' many more before they were a threat. And then there is the problem of disposing of bodies. Even checking on the NUMBER of dead bodies takes a fair amount of CPU at present so cleanup is done rarely and carefully.

That and personally, I don't really like the traditional concept of zombies - they reflect societal fears that we have outgrown somewhat. Modern "28 days later" zombies reflect the fear of infections, of things we can control and see, the loss of our humanity, the breakdown of order, nameless/borderless enemies. The modern zombie interest is really, imho, a social commentary on the fears of modern society. They capture nicely the things we fear.

This implementation was chosen because the infected are threatening, but their number can be controlled and balanced so the servers can be up, living, and remain stable for 24 hours. I realise this is a disapointment to some, but if it comes down to something being cool but costing performance or not being workable - then its not included.

[/quote']

[Maxe (DayZ) 0]

... than having rotting corpses with gnawed off legs run faster than Usain Bolt when they're after me. But that's just me :)

They're not rotting corpses. They are infected with some sort of a rage virus.

Older infected that are starving/or have "rotting corpse" ARE in the game' date=' they crawl or walk like monkeys.

[/quote']

I understand where you're coming from. But again: Gameplay should dictate lore in order to make the game better. At least to the up to the point of compromising immersion. Abusing game mechanics is the main reason immersion is limited right now. But these methods are also viable ways to gain an advantage in this harsh environment. So people use them. Unless lore comes around that explains why Zombies magically move like sloths in buildings and like panthers in the open this is just not helping.

I know the engine has limitations when it comes to AI movement inside buildings and cities. But when the engine forces down movement in buildings anyways I don't see a reason to slow movement outside as well. This would help masking engine weaknesses that are not as easily addressed than changing the movement speed of a type of unit.

[The Poacher 31]

Another post by rocket on this topic.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=341&pid=6426#pid6426

Expendable' pid='6424' dateline='1335871807']

Agreed' date=' slower zombies would be just add bad as taking them out of the game altogether. It's already ready enough to just run into a warehouse, cue up Yackety Sax and start a shooting gallery. If anything I say make zombies more lethal, or ask least able to run inside.

Just please fix the whole running through closed doors and hitting through walls thing.

[/quote']

These are ArmA2 engine issues (not running inside and doors/walls)

[Ankhenaten 111]

people fail to understand that these "zombies" are not undeas' date=' they are infected

[/quote']

Call me oldfashioned but the mod is named dayz not dayi ... :dodgy:

Benny Hill Zombies though ... ;)

[DemonGroover 8836]

People need to watch 28 Days Later, a movie Rocket himself said inspired his Infected. Go watch it then stop talking about the frigging undead!

[darrkbeast 0]

Just want the zombies to stop teleporting around and walking through walls. I mean if they developed the technolgy to do that, then grab a gun zombies and kill some bandits.

[mcdosy 2]

They're infected' date=' not zombies, so stop blabbering about zombie lore...

[/quote']

They are indeed, and that is the whole problem. Is this "Day Z"? Or "Day I"?

Having played this for the first time today, I would also find it massively more fun if it was to feature zombies instead of 'infected'.

I don't want Left 4 Dead with permadeath. I wan't a zombie survival game. I'm still wanting.

Zombies are infinitely more interesting and compelling than 'infected'. That's why we sit around in the pub discussing zombie survival strategies, and yet 'infected' survival strategies have never come up. That's why "The Zombie Survival Guide" is a best seller, and "The Infected Survival Guide" has yet to be written.

I'm constantly being told that the games market is overflowing with zombie games, and yet virtually no developers seem to have any interest in exploring a genuine zombie scenario.

Maybe when this ships, there will be a fan mod to put zombies in it...

[adamtheheretic 106]

They're infected' date=' not zombies, so stop blabbering about zombie lore...

[/quote']

They are indeed, and that is the whole problem. Is this "Day Z"? Or "Day I"?

Having played this for the first time today, I would also find it massively more fun if it was to feature zombies instead of 'infected'.

I don't want Left 4 Dead with permadeath. I wan't a zombie survival game. I'm still wanting.

Zombies are infinitely more interesting and compelling than 'infected'. That's why we sit around in the pub discussing zombie survival strategies, and yet 'infected' survival strategies have never come up. That's why "The Zombie Survival Guide" is a best seller, and "The Infected Survival Guide" has yet to be written.

I'm constantly being told that the games market is overflowing with zombie games, and yet virtually no developers seem to have any interest in exploring a genuine zombie scenario.

Maybe when this ships, there will be a fan mod to put zombies in it...

Technically, they're zombies but it's more due to a working title sticking... And Rocket decides what lore he sticks to and what he disregards. In all honesty, that's how we got to this point with zombies, vampires, werewolves and the like and the lore will only change over time.

[Tox2401 1]

I agree they should be slower, today me and my friend aggroed about 5 of them, I told him to pull them and I'll shoot them, it's impossible, they move to fast, I can't hit them without risking my friends life, which is stupid. I love how hard game is really, but this part is to much unreal, and I thought goal of this game is reality...

[CrimsonBlade 2]

There infected persons NOT zombies.... case closed.

[federik21 42]

Zeds should be killed only with HS.

Now it's easy, one bullet of m1911 in the chest it's too simple.

We have large amount of bullets, that will be wasted for useless Pk.

Slow zombies are something weak in a real apocalipse (and in dayz too).

You could be bitten only by "Lurkers", immobile zombie's that wait for you to come closer, because if you walk fast they will never reach you.

If they are too many and you got surrounded because you have finished your ammo, you killed yourself -not the zeds.

Zeds are not a threat. Survivors are.

[gotima 0]

"make them slower: Zombies in lore are undead and usually not very fast on their feet but in DayZ they are"

make sure to do your homework before posting "suggestions" like this, they are alive people with good physical state, but they are infected with the virus