Player Identification and Classification System

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Goal

Give players a means to identify and classify other players in the game. Identification must be made visually and classification is left up to the player.

Philosophy

First, players, not the game engine, are the best judges of player behavior. Whenever the game engine classifies players for us, it is inherently playing the role of third-party judge. It must use pre-defined behaviors and actions to determine which category a player falls into. This inevitably results in very black & white categories - good or evil, friend or foe, kiss or kill. There's no room for personal interpretations by the player and no sense of personal responsibility on the player's part. There's also rarely distinctions made based on mitigating circumstances, historical context or personal allegiance.

Second, player identification should rely on the survivor as much as the player controlling him/her. Identification should be based upon the survivor's ability to get close enough to recognize identifying features, and recognition should be attached to the life of the survivor - death will erase your memory of friends and foes either partially or completely.

How it Works

The first step is identification. In order to make a successful identification, a survivor must be within 20m of their target with unaided eyes, or an 'equivalent' distance using optical aides such as binoculars or rifle scopes.

Once identification is made, classification can take place. Classification has two parts: naming and categorizing. Unlike server's which enable nametags (yuck), this system requires players to assign their own labels to identified survivors. The idea here is that you should not necessarily know which survivor in the game corresponds to which name on the user list or leaderboard (though, if you want, you can guess).

The second part of classification is categorization: the player defines categories and assigns each category a name and color - and inserts identified survivors into one of the pre-defined categories.

For example a player might create categories like Ally, Friend, Unknown, Suspect, Enemy and assign colors like green, blue, grey, orange and red respectively.

The end result being: Whenever a player sees another survivor in the world whom they have previously identified and categorized, their assigned name will appear in the color of the assigned category.

This name/color combination is only visible within the specified visual identifcation ranges (20m for unaided eyes, equivalent distance for optics and binoculars).

Why it Works

This places all of the power of identification and classification in the hands of the player themselves. You are now the judge of who is a bandit and who is a friend. Nobody does the work for you! You can use this system of classification in any way you see fit. Responsibility is in your hands.

It's integrated into the game world. No magical nametag fairy whispering the name of the survivor in your ear from 1000m away. No third-party judge telling you who is naughty and who is nice. You are the judge now. It's up to you to make the call.

Lastly, by attaching the memory of identified survivors to your current life - and erasing your memory upon death - a great deal of added value is attached to survival. The longer you survive, the more you know about the other survivors around you. Survive long enough, and you will have a vast library of information about other players in the game.

And the great part about this is there's no way to "cheat the system," so to speak. You can't write anything down to remember later. Once you're dead, your memory is gone and there's really no way to get it back. This will make it an invaluable asset - even more valuable than loot in some cases, as you can always get new loot but rebuilding your library of identified and categorized survivors could take a very, very long time.

Conclusion

I think it's a perfect compromise between the "game decides for you" systems (like the Bandit Skin) and the current state of the game in which you have no idea who is who - even if you have seen a survivor before and witnessed him saving a life or committing a vile act, the next time you encounter that player you will not be able to attach those acts to that survivor.

Please comment!

Similar or Related:

elektromanager: Communication/identification between/of survivors

Hieronymus Josche: Yet another suggestion to encourage teamwork and PK accountability

Vigilance: Familiarity Player Identification (Bandit/Trade "solution")

Edited July 26, 2012 by ZedsDeadBaby

[DemonGroover 8836]

The concept is a good one.

I like the idea of being able to flag people as dipshits based on their actions. Would there be any difficulty in this sytem working on server hoppers - i suppose it would flag the players name so when they relog on your tag is still there.

Hmm, i'll have to think on it a bit more but an original idea. I like it!

[FlashHawk4 44]

I like your idea. When I first read the title, I groaned aloud and thought, "Great, another carebear thread."

But your idea works and is realistic. It would be kind of cool.

I think it will be implemented somewhat, in that character customization will probably become more in-depth as this game progresses, meaning you can recognize individual players by a distinctive hat or a certain type of jacket. However, in the absence of varied skins, and even permanence of said skins, your idea would work pretty well. Of course, it's not often that people encounter bandits without one or the other dying (I would assume it resets the other way too, because I always assume I'm coming back as an entirely new individual), but otherwise I like it.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

I think it will be implemented somewhat' date=' in that character customization will probably become more in-depth as this game progresses, meaning you can recognize individual players by a distinctive hat or a certain type of jacket.

[/quote']

Part of the reasoning behind the way my system functions is that no matter how varied and diverse the player models and fashion accessories become, you will never truly emulate the actual ability of humans to recognize facial features, distinctive markings like scars, indicators of age, height, weight, hair and eye color, etc.

This system gives you a "human like" ability to perceive and remember other individuals without actually burdening the artists with the job of creating millions of uniquely-identifiable player models and features.

In fact my system could work in the game as it is today, with the small number of models and 3 basic clothing sets.

[osiriszoran 33]

Nope. Game doesn't need any forced systems that force you into doing something.

[FlashHawk4 44]

Nope. Game doesn't need any forced systems that force you into doing something.

I don' see the word forced anywhere in the description. In fact, it sounded much more optional than anything I've read in the past twenty minutes. Where's the forced part of any of this?

[DemonGroover 8836]

Nope. Game doesn't need any forced systems that force you into doing something.

I think the point is it isnt forced.

[osiriszoran 33]

Optional LOL. it means giving people a certain "edge" then it doesn't become optional. Besides it should reset after that person dies considering its a "new" survivor every time you die. So it would be pointless especially when people under this system could just change their clothes or even player profile face and look different.

---

If anything they should just add more "suits" to find that you can change into like the camo or ghillie.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Besides it should reset after that person dies considering its a "new" survivor every time you die.

That is clearly stated as part of the proposed functionality. Please read the OP in its entirety.

So it would be pointless

How does that make it pointless? I've known survivors to survive for 40+ days and encounter hundreds of other players. They would have found this system far from pointless and further would have attached far more value to their continued survival since their memory of so many encounters would be at risk' date=' not just their loot and zombie kill count.

especially when people under this system could just change their clothes or even player profile face and look different.

That would have no effect under the proposed system.

If anything they should just add more "suits" to find that you can change into like the camo or ghillie.

Once again, this is addressed in the short discussion that has already taken place. There's no way the artists could add enough suits and looks to emulate the ability of actual humans to recognize the features of other humans they have seen before. There are almost 400,000 players in the game. By retail, there could be more than a million.

I'm not sure why you're coming down with "LOLs" blazing. It seems like you haven't even finished reading the OP in it's entirety. Calm down, slow down a bit, and try to contribute something substantive to the discussion please.

Edited August 1, 2012 by ZedsDeadBaby

[Coty (DayZ) 0]

iono, this just seems like a way to short range identify bandits after you play on a server long enough

Guess its not that bad though, maybe a little less range

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

iono' date=' this just seems like a way to short range identify bandits after you play on a server long enough

[/quote']

Okay, so what? Should that not be possible? If you witness their crimes, survive to tell the tale, and are close enough to make the identification, shouldn't you remember their face next time you see them? Seems a fitting reward for being that close and surviving the ordeal, no?

You can use it to identify bandits, or you can use it to tag newbies you know are easy/soft targets, or people you want to track and hunt/kill.

It doesn't encourage or discourage any particular play style. It just gives players a human-like ability to recognize other individuals and remember their significant actions.

[adamtheheretic 106]

+1 for the idea, I also did this on the "Hey, I know you!" thread, both seem set out pretty well, I like how you described 20m which is a fair distance or equal range through scopes which isn't as distinct in the other thread. I like it, I definitely support a wider range of skins or customization of characters but I think this should be put in place too.

[dabauce 0]

This seems like a really great idea. You have my support

[Cinc 3]

i like this idea, but i think it would be easier to just insert new and varying uniforms into the game.

for example, when you initially spawn you'll have a randomly selected shirt, pair of pants, and a hat all of randomly selected various colors. these colors will be slightly controllable (if i have to run around in a pink shirt, EVERYONE DIES) but there should also be enough so that 1 person could be told apart from another. perhaps various shirts could have cuts in them or something? anyway, this would add a realistic memory system to the game, because it is in real life.

for example, you see a guy in a blue shirt and brown pants. initially, you avoid him, but later on you get chased by a ton of zombies and break your leg. with no morphine and few gear anyway, you decide to just use the respawn button to start over. but then the guy you saw earlier comes along, sees you, and gives you some morphine before walking away. after seing him at closer range, you now add to your memory of him several cuts and un-washed bloodstains on his short. this would effectively allow you to remember this person for as long as your memory of him lasts, or until he dies and gets a new pair of clothes. of course, this would allow your memory to unrealistically last longer then your actual life, but i still think this system would be more realistic and interesting then just putting names on random people.

[DayZPvP.com 143]

I like the idea overall, but am thinking just 1 tag, 1 category.

Using the process you posted you could "tag" someone as a friend and an icon or their name will float above them at a certain range.

That's it. my crew gets the tag, everyone else is an enemy. If I want to go derp around Cherno and tag random people, that's on me. Simple, clean, quick.

I love the whole concept of making the player make the judgement.

[rolfwar 5]

Sounds good,but one guy could still show up and shoot you,with no time to "mark" him

[Squatthrust 3]

I'm pretty much with you 100% on that' date=' except for one thing. I think identity should persist after character death. Right now life expectancy hovers not too far above half an hour, and you can expect that figure to hold true if you want to be of the helpful variety, so with identity completely resetting after death, I think the system would be too subtle, and identity to ephemeral to really make an impact.

[/quote']

Cross-post from another thread (http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=32432)

...and a bump I suppose

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

It's an aspect I thought about a lot before including it in the suggestion. I do feel strongly about wiping players' memory upon death.

I will set aside the argument that it is more authentic. While I do believe this is true, I don't think it's the primary reason why a memory wipe on death would be compelling.

The most important reason is that it gives value to your life, and therefore gives you a stronger compulsion to survive long term.

Right now the biggest motivations toward survival are maintenance of gear and equipment, accumulating kill counts and a vague sense that your current survivor has a contiguous "story" which you do not want to interrupt with a death and re-spawn.

Persistent storage and corpse retireval means the gear aspect is kind of moot. So that really just leaves us with kill counts and "stories" as a reason to stay alive. In my opinion, the game would benefit from more reasons to live. More things attached to your player that you might lose when you die - and the memory of all the crimes you have witnessed seems like an appropriate loss.

As you accrue more player IDs, you will become an invaluable asset to your team. They will want to have you around all the time because you will be able to pull up your binoculars and say at any momemnt "Oh, yeah. Don't worry. That's the guy we met in Zel the other day who helped us repair the truck." or "Oh shit, get down! That's the guy that sniped you yesterday!"

The more memories you accrue, the more of an asset you will become and the more equipped you and your companions will be to face the challenges of meeting players in the game.

Over time I believe your memories and player IDs will become a more valuable asset than even the most powerful equipment in the game.

Losing it upon death means that you will do whatever it takes to survive. You will struggle, kick, claw and crawl to try and live. You will really feel like you are going to lose something precious and valuable when you die. This means no more clicking "re-spawn" because you broke your leg in an inconvenient place and you would rather not deal with it. No more getting bored and charging into the NWAF barracks "just because." It will make players more careful and considerate about their actions in the game, because they will have more at stake/on the line when they die.

Though, at the end of it all, perhaps a compromise might work? Perhaps you randomly lose between 25-50% of your memorized player IDs upon death, instead of a complete wipe?

This way you still carry over some knowledge, but still gain that extra bit of value to life that will compel you to survive longer?

Thanks for posting.

[Squatthrust 3]

I think this really comes down to just different things that we both want to get out of a system like this. When I think of a persistent identity and memory system I think that identity is what becomes the important factor. People going into trading towns and seeing propaganda posters with a picture of Dr. Wasteland with suitable text, something like: "This man is your friend, he fights for you" right next to a bounty poster with a sinister bandit and a reward for him dead or alive.

Just approaching the story idea from a different angle really. The persistence after death would allow people to build up a suitable reputation, and transfer to other fellow survivors in a venue such as propaganda posters for good guys and wanted posters for bad guys would add a new dynamic to the game. This would allow the value of other players to be solely determined by the other players. If you're a notorious enough bandit, then people may recognize you from posters. Of course these posters would have to be drawn by someone who originally saw you and may require some new, possibly higher-end items (ink, paper, and of course time), the idea of bounties and being able to know the people who will try to help you or hurt you or even make some beans off of providing you a service is something I'd really like to see. The future implementation of diaries that Rocket has talked about would also help for bounty services/trophies for bandits. That way if you did just kill the notorious bandit when he freshly spawned on the coast, people wouldn't really think highly of it, but if you had his records of surviving for a couple months doing bandit things, then the bounty reward could be issued or even raised depending on how bad he really was.

One other question I have though is what about when the person who's being identified dies? Would all those who have him identified simply lose that entry, or would they still recognize him?

I'm more supportive of the completely persistent identity, but I'm curious of what you think of that side of it. I think it's the more important side of things to keep persistence on. Since wanted posters can fill you in even if you forget the identity after your death, if the identity itself is eliminated, then it would make it more difficult to implement them, especially with life expectancy the way it is.

Though' date=' at the end of it all, perhaps a compromise might work? Perhaps you randomly lose between 25-50% of your memorized player IDs upon death, instead of a complete wipe?

This way you still carry over some knowledge, but still gain that extra bit of value to life that will compel you to survive longer?

Thanks for posting.

[/quote']

That's a good compromise. Maybe have it work by how recent you created the entries/saw the person? More recent, important identities are more likely to stick around past your death, but ones that you haven't seen in a while are more likely to be forgotten.

[Thom_Dee 9]

Have to say I think this is a good idea and accurately reflects our ability to recognise familiar individuals in real life, I think the 20m limit, prevents it from being exploitative and will still make approaching players a tense affair. I'm not sure how well it'd be implemented as a game play mechanic when assigning the tags, maybe if the ARMA comms system was adapted to tag a player but that's still pretty clunky. Could be used in tandem with both the clothing ideas floating around, (although I'm not a big fan personally, I can see why large groups want this.) and even with the wanted posters, where seeing a poster would enable you to identify the individual, making notoriety a significant factor.

I think a player dying would remove his tags from everyone that has seen him, as that character is now deceased and I agree, I think your memory should be wiped completely too, when you die mostly for the reasons for the reasons you've already outlined, it makes sense with permadeath as a mechanic. I don't think the average life expectancy is that big a deal as I think that's been significantly diluted by the people re-spawning when they don't like there starter position and I know I've been guilty of rage suicide to my new survivor, after one of my longer runs comes to an inglorious end.

[gotimas 0]

This has been said before, and if i remember correctly the dev already thought of something like this

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

This has been said before, and if i remember correctly the dev already thought of something like this

Thanks! I would really appreciate it if you could post links to any similar ideas you have found on the forums, especially if they pre-date mine. I searched pretty thoroughly before posting. There used to be one from HardTarget entitled "Hey, I know you!" but I think it got lost in the forum upgrade. Bummer.

Also, any link to a post, interview or article in which someone on the dev team mentions a similar idea would be awesome.

[funionz 7]

This is a bad idea and you should feel bad for posting it.

Seriously though, I like this idea. I think it's a fair compromise.

[gizm0 96]

I love this idea... everyone like the first post :D

[Spoleto 25]

I think it's a brilliant Idea - perhaps additional functionality could be that if both players tag each other as "friend" the indicatior would appear at a slightly longer range than 20M, but only if your tagging was reciprocated.