[Suggestion] Humanity System Effects

[GoodRevrnd 0]

This is an idea to encourage players to keep humanity positive. The way I see it, since this zombie apocalypse is based on an infection, then we as the survivors are all immune/resistant carriers akin to Left 4 Dead or the Walking Dead. Therefore, I propose that low humanity equates to lower resistance to the Z infection and ultimately puts a timer on the lives of players with low humanity.

*Start with 10k humanity. Murders incur -2500 humanity.

*Positive humanity you suffer no ill effects and this system doesn't really effect you.

*Status Effects:

>0 to -10000: Occasional shakes pop up, treated with painkillers. Occasional coughing occurs, treated with antibiotics.

>-10k to -25k: More frequent shakes, treated with painkillers. More frequent coughing, untreatable. Occasional shock. "Long" (7 days?) survival time, life prolonged with antibiotics.

>-25k to -50k: More frequent shakes, treated with painkillers. Persistent untreatable coughing. More frequent shock. "Medium" (5 days?) survival time, life prolonged by antibiotics.

>-50k+: Frequent shakes, treated with painkillers. Persistent untreatable coughing. Frequent shock. "Short" survival time, life prolonged with antibiotics.

*Negative humanity reduced by 10% on death, for characters that have been alive at least 1 hour. Reduction only applies to characters with humanity lower than -25k.

*Other Possible Additional Effects:

>Upon death you turn into an enraged Zed that attacks any and all living things within a 50m radius, whether it has LOS or not. :D

>Being around other players succumbing to the Z infection accelerates the deterioration of both players.

Obviously this system would work better if there was some sort of hidden combat flagging system so players that are just defending themselves don't get dinged.

Also, I would be open to making my system apply to survivors and bandits equally, where you incur the humanity hit for killing *any* player, survivor or bandit. That really would be equality at it's finest, no? And it would certainly make EVERY PvP encounter full of meaningful decisions.

Haters, keep yourselves in check and try to be constructive and refrain from the "OMG THAT'S SO DUMB & OP DERP DERP!." All my suggestions in this thread are completely open to tweaks. Consider the general ideas, not the numbers and specifics.

Read this before bitching: http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=27366&pid=243394#pid243394

[Specter911 2]

A suggestion I am spreading around, just gonna copy paste it from some other thread, should probably make its own thread soon, but that will be later.

I think I got what your looking for.

"1. After your initial spawn, every time you log in acts like your character has just waken up.

Every time you log in, within a certain radius your character will make 2-4 second sound effect that could potentially attract zombies if your close enough, but would mostly be for others players to hear you if you spawned within a building or are server hopping.

It would have a scale, the more murders you have, the louder the sound you make is to players and zombies, to a certain point where it would sound like you fired an enfield.

To make it logical, its like the murderer is having a nightmare, as you can't really control dreams and they can take you for a spin, so you wake up making slight pantings at first from your dream to waking up screaming if high enough murders, to just waking up with an insane yell as if you ever get to that point you should be a psycho.

And if you kill bandits you start having good dreams, or lessen your nightmare if you have murdered, to the point where it is now, where you make no noise, but it would take perhaps 5 bandits kills and no murders to get to that point.

2. Every time you murder or kill a bandit, their blood is on you, it will attract zombies.

Up to a max of say 20 player kills, you would essentially be soaked in blood and would attract zombies constantly around you as if you were firing an assault rifle or M1911.

Its effects would be varying depending on how many you have killed, as so would the visual so you know who the murders are, it may even make bandits look bad ass with all that blood on.

There would be no fading of the blood, except by changing clothes though that would only reduce your amount by a certain amount of blood murders each time, say by 5.

So you could potentially rid of it by constantly changing clothes, but your old clothes if put on would retain the 5 amount upon them.

There would be an item that is as rare as antibiotics that would clean all the blood off of you and your clothes."

It should reduce the amounts of KoS supposedly, and humanity would be on the rise.

[jetao2008@hotmail.com 175]

I'm sorry but i don't agree with the suggestion.

I hate the "shoot on sight" attitude, but i believe this punishment for doing so is a little too much, in my opinion.

Coughing and shakes because you killed people? That doesn't make any sense to me, but again, this is what i think.

I rather have the bandit skin again, or maybe something else, like the less humanity you have the longer you have to wait to respawn if you die.

[KnT47r 51]

Why punish people for playing how they want to play? If you're going to implement a system that punishes PKing you need to implement a system that does the same thing for people who don't PK - I suggest having a come-fuck-me-up beacon placed within [time played/zombie kills] metres of your position on everyone's map. So that way when you log on, players have a chance to come and find you to steal your beans. Sounds shit right? That's what you're suggesting for PKer's

Rocket has said he doesnt wish to punish any one playstyle many times over so get over it

[GoodRevrnd 0]

Soooo.... aspect 1 is so situational it only applies to when you log in and many people have already expressed the hallucination/nightmare angle is too artificial because people are actually okay with committing murder in a post-apocalyptic environment such as DayZ. Aspect 2 is just too artificial. So I'm "covered in blood" because I sniped someone 600m away?

I'm not 100% on my system even, but it at least is marginally "realistic" drawing from the Z infection lore. It also makes heavy use of already existing systems, simplifying its implementation.

---

Why punish people for playing how they want to play? If you're going to implement a system that punishes PKing you need to implement a system that does the same thing for people who don't PK - I suggest having a come-fuck-me-up beacon placed within [time played/zombie kills] metres of your position on everyone's map. So that way when you log on' date=' players have a chance to come and find you to steal your beans. Sounds shit right? That's what you're suggesting for PKer's

Rocket has said he doesnt wish to punish any one playstyle many times over so get over it

[/quote']

Introducing potential consequences for your actions is not punishing a play style. He obviously originally had the humanity system in for some reason. Also, consider that the rampant pking is having a gross negative effect on all other play styles.

[thedemonmelon 0]

No no no no no! I am a bandit with little remorse, and my character would not suffer these symptoms because he is OK with what he does!

[KnT47r 51]

I'm not saying don't have consequences, I'm saying that if you bring consequences on one playstyle you must bring other similar consequences to others

[GoodRevrnd 0]

I'm not saying don't have consequences' date=' I'm saying that if you bring consequences on one playstyle you must bring other similar consequences to others

[/quote']

The consequence to the "survivor" play style is that you don't have the option to shoot whoever you want for easy loot.

And frankly, it shouldn't need to be pointed out that there needs to be some sort of "unrealistic" rule set to compensate for the fact that if you die in this game there is no *ultimate* consequence like if this were IRL DayZ. People would play a lot differently--even bandits--if when you died in this game it automatically perma-banned your account key so you couldn't play any more.

I also think some of you are overreacting to the effects I have proposed. As I already stated, they could easily be toned down.

[Eiskrem-Kaiser 54]

This idea is being put forward constantly... I don't get it. This idea sucks and rocket already said, he's not going in that direction.

I could explain why, but I already did in some other thread. I just don't feel like repeating myself over and over again. I just want to share my disapproval of this idea, so it doesn't look like everyone is for it.

-1

[KnT47r 51]

The consequence to the "survivor" play style is that you don't have the option to shoot whoever you want for easy loot.

I also think some of you are overreacting to the effects I have proposed. As I already stated' date=' they could easily be toned down.

[/quote']

Well if you're going by that argument the consequence to the "bandit" playstyle is you can never have some random watching your back. You pretty much need someone you know IRL to go be bestest bandit boyfriends with.

Toned down or not, every action needs an equal and opposite reaction

EDIT: Also, I'm not hating here. I'm just saying that you have a half-baked idea and that you should really look at both sides of the fence instead of just from the POV of the survivors because it fits your playstyle

[GoodRevrnd 0]

Well if you're going by that argument the consequence to the "bandit" playstyle is you can never have some random watching your back. You pretty much need someone you know IRL to go be bestest bandit boyfriends with.

You can't have a random watching your back now either, bandit or survivor.

[KnT47r 51]

That's right. Equality at its finest ;)

[GoodRevrnd 0]

Rocket has said he doesnt wish to punish any one playstyle many times over so get over it

Not just picking on you here' date=' but all the bandit for life people seem to cling to this "rocket doesn't wish to punish any one play style" rally cry every time somebody brings up any suggestion for consequences to banditry. This interpretation simply isn't accurate.

Examples:

He would not offer up this suggestion if he didn't think it was necessary for there to be some way to ID bandits.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=10880&pid=100036&highlight=humanity#pid100036

Why would he still keep humanity at all if he didn't intend for it to be the basis for some sort of effects derived from players interacting with each other?

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=3693&pid=33457#pid33457

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=3693&pid=33511&highlight=humanity#pid33511

"...but each choice has its consequences..."

"...the idea is that I force you to make some tough decisions..."

"The mechanic should reflect your chosen gameplay style."

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=844&pid=8595#pid8595

Right now with no humanity effects or consequences there are NO TOUGH DECISIONS and we are all forced into the shoot first "gameplay style." Currently the survivor playstyle is being punished because it simply isn't a realistic option. In game social interaction is nearly nonexistent such that the only player social interaction that occurs right now is at the meta level. (ie, Vent, clans. There is nothing wrong with meta level social interaction in and of itself.)

I'm all for PvP. I played all the "hard-core" pvp mmos like UO, Shadowbane and Darkfall. In fact, I think PvP is absolutely essential to the success of this mod and keeping things interesting. However, it needs to be dynamic so there is actually a decision making process surrounding every PvP interaction. Currently, there simply isn't and that *clearly* is not what rocket is going for.

[hr']

Also, I would be open to making my system apply to survivors and bandits equally, where you incur the humanity hit for killing *any* player, survivor or bandit. That really would be equality at it's finest, no? And it would certainly make EVERY PvP encounter full of meaningful decisions.

[KnT47r 51]

Ah I misunderstood the OP then, it seemed to me that you were just bandit bashing lol

Not sure if you've been following some other threads on this topic (there's a lot of them) but I reckon something like stealth bonus to survivors/peripheral vision range increase for bandits would be good. <- This is just an example off the top of my head, havent thought about balance/game implications much yet

Very minor things (eg, this would provide the choice of do I want to sneak by zombie's better or have the potential to get the jump on a player easier?) would be far better than huge mechanical things

[GoodRevrnd 0]

Not sure if you've been following some other threads on this topic (there's a lot of them)

A couple, and many of them are unbelievably beyond terrible. Most of them fall either in the "absurdly artificial" group or the "stop you from playing completely" group. I cannot even express how bad any idea that keeps you from playing the game at all is, like respawn timers.

[hoik 415]

Please, for those want an original 'humanity' system that does nothing but give everyone in the game a value beyond the obvious - please consider the link in my signiture. At the very least I hope it can give you some food for thought.

[bobbyweenus 17]

People are really arrogant about their banditry in this game. It's either that, or they exhibit EXTREMELY anti-social behavior and hide that by playing video games like DayZ.

You are not seeing suggestions for humanity systems because people want to punish bandits, STOP OVER SIMPLIFYING SOMETHING THAT IS ABOVE YOUR HEADS.

People are making these suggestions because there is nothing in game that simulates that actual decision making process of killing another human being in cold blood. This game is designed, admittedly by Rocket, as a means of putting your nerves and you're conscious through the ringer. He wants you to mull over EVERY SINGLE DECISION. That's the entire point of the temperature system, to make you make the decision whether you would chance an infection to go out into the rain.

However, there is zero decision making in murdering another player. Matter of fact, logically it's the only choice, as killing a player and taking his shit is clearly more easy than raiding towns to get loot that might not even be there.

People are trying to come up with ideas that use humanity because they are trying to add weight to that decision making process again. The bandit system was a very crude version of it. "Do I really want to kill that man and have a bandit skin that makes me a target". It made you think twice because there was no visual cue of a person having a unique, emotional face or a personality in game. Everyone wears the same 3 outfits, everyone wears the same 3 glasses, everyone wears the same 4 backpacks. We all look the same which means we give you no visual cues that appeal to humanity the way a person's face does in real life, tugging at your decision making on a subconscious level. In DayZ, we are all the same 3D models people have been killing by the dozens in FPS video games. It makes us EASIER to kill.

That's why a system is so desperately needed in this game. They need to make that trigger finger decision more of an issue again. It doesn't have to punish anyone. It just has to make you think twice, even for a split second.

I know everyone here is a post apocalypse badass who is going to make Denzel look like a punk in Book of Eli but GET REAL. The majority of you would crumble with that kind of decision staring back at you down the iron sights of a gun. Stop pretending to be some closet psychopath who wants to go on a school shooting just to protect your ability to PK, it's getting fucking tired and old watching these forums go in the same circles with you ALL MISSING THE FUCKING POINT.

[hoik 415]

That's why a system is so desperately needed in this game. They need to make that trigger finger decision more of an issue again. It doesn't have to punish anyone. It just has to make you think twice' date=' even for a split second.

[/quote']

Totally agree - if we the players are unwilling to think before we act we will have to except more and more artifical punishment imposed as 'rules'.

Personally I like to think that there is already a 'humanity' system in the game (not the silly heart beat) and the fact is that the vast majority is succumbing to the pressures of a lawless society and therefore becoming lawless themselves. Being a 'good guy' has basicly no value in a DayZ scenario, its only value is to like minded individuals - these are rare ATM and therefore of a very high value (to eachother). If you resolve to be 'good' you have chosen high humanity - the reward is your own KNOWLEDGE of your decision - and it WILL be appreciated greatly by like minded players.

If you are trying to be 'good' but after being fucked over again and again YOU think 'no one cares, fuck it all, im going Pking" you have infact lost your humanity.

I know this is extreamly 'ungamey' and for most gamers the need for some sort of ingame 'pat on the back' (that are more for braging rights than anything else) or 'rap on the knuckles' is manditory/neccecary so they can read the game world. I agree to some extent - there has to be some tools to interpret the world, but I think we have all been playing games long enough to get beyound the obvious.

For weenus and those that value 'freedom' in the game, see my signiture as it tries to address the thoughtlessness by giving all players a 'intrinsic' value in a subtle and intuitive way. At the least I hope it can give you some food for thought and maybe inspire fresh ideas.