Unless we get flags/effects for murder, this game will just be Deathmatch.

[Swineflew 480]

hmm i've seen that system used somewhere before. Oh' date=' right, it was used in DayZ, that exact system, who would have guessed...

[/quote']

No.. no it wasn't...

I can't resist replying.

What was humanity and the bandit skin then? How is that not a numerical tally and getting flagged?

[KWilt 157]

Whoa. Looks like we've gotten quite a few responses here since I last posted... and it doesn't look like they're anything other than PinkTaco24 trying to spout superior knowledge in the form of telling any opposition to shut up because he's smarter than them.

Anyways, before the topic gets closed, I might as well respond to your response to my comment:

Which is silly' date=' because you're now branding new spawnees as bandits immediately, when they don't even have a gun. Who wants to group up with that guy? Hell, as a fellow bandit, I wouldn't even group up with him.

You've now killed any and all group play with this player, and if they don't like playing solo, they're screwed.

[/quote']

Over time, the penalty would go away.

But the solution is simple.. if you don't want to be flagged, don't murder. Less you are flagged for a certain # of play hours.

At the time of posting, you didn't have the 'penalty going away'. So I'll forgive that. However, you didn't address my point at all which I made in this post that your idea does not, at all, promote cooperation. It only hinders bandits. As such, if you're not going to tell the truth, please go away.

That point aside, let's actually tackle the number one flaw in your idea of using the bandit skin, shall we?

----------

Survivor A spots Survivor B in a clearing. Survivor A takes a shot at Survivor B with his DMR, but he's a piss-poor shot and misses. Survivor B dives behind a bale of hay, scans the tree line, and then finds Survivor A. Survivor B pulls out their own DMR, and are a far more superior shot, so they kills Survivor A with a well placed shot to the head.

Survivor A is now a bandit, but was only acting self defense.

What is your plan of action to defend Survivor A's actions of self defense? The ARMA system (to my knowledge) does not account for 'who shot first', but only 'who shot the best'. So, your last point in the OP is completely invalidated. Now, let's take this a step further, shall we?

Survivor A is now in a bandit suit. He must wait for his timer to count down. However, as all this commotion is taking place ENE of Polana. Survivor C, who was scavenging for some goods, goes to check it out. Survivor C sees Survivor A in his bandit suit, and decided to take a shot with his CZ550. Survivor C gets a good shot or two on Survivor A, killing him. Survivor C now believes he has rid himself of the bandit menace, but has, in all actuality, killed a Survivor that was acting in self defense.

I can think of probably one or two other situations where silly shit like this can happen. But clearly, you're adamant on your idea, so I'll take some advice and give it to others as well:

He's clearly not getting much support, so let's just clear out, guys. There are tons of other suggestions that are worth more time than this.

EDIT: Shit, this isn't even in the Suggestions forum. Can we get a mod in here to move it?

[puffu 0]

I have an idea for penalty, what if for the very first murder of your "life", your morality plays tricks on you that heavily burdens you physically and mentally somehow and the effect decreases the more you kill.

Like when you get cold or wounded you get consequence of shaking madly, making it hard to aim, or if you catch an infection you cough a lot, attracting more zombies.

There could be a similar but much more severe consequence for murders, by adding it to the morale level.

And realistically, the more you kill the less the effect will be if that's what a player wants to achieve.

I think real bandits will get over this "nerf" quickly but the common "survivors" will be much more careful to take that first step into becoming a murderer.

Of course this should affect someone who's murdering in self-defense too, rather have a hard time for a while than dying, the effects should just be so prominent that you'd most of all want to avoid any murders at all your very first times.

The whole morale thing sounds accurate and realistic for immersion, at least to me.

[Korppi (DayZ) 0]

I'm really getting depressed of this "People would kill everyone they see if this scenario was real life and there were no laws or penalties!" What kind of fucking sociopaths roam the internet? Have you people no notion of morals? Or sympathy? If indeed people would act like this then it would be ok to kill on sight since it would just be people acting like zombies versus people acting like zombies vs zombies. And the mindless walking dead would be on the moral high ground. Now, how fucked is that?

[hawkygaming 43]

In real life we have penalties for murder

0_o Keep in mind it's a zombie outbreak.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

I can think of probably one or two other situations where silly shit like this can happen.

A hell of a lot more than one or two, actually.

If a survivor attempts to steal a vehicle from me and I dispatch him, I'm a "bandit."

If I come across a survivor looting my tent of precious goods and take action, I'm a "bandit."

If someone fires on me, even if they hit, they might have other friends who join combat and also fire on me. If I return fire and happen to hit one of the companions instead of the original assailaint, I'm a "bandit."

If I identify a survivor as a member of a hostile group - traveling with people I know to have attacked myself or friends, I'm a "bandit" if I kill them.

If someone shoots me and then gets in a vehicle with 3-4 other survivors I'm a "bandit" if I destroy that vehicle killing its occupants.

I'm a "bandit" if I take action against someone who I have asked to keep distant and they ignore me and continue to approach.

I'm a "bandit" if I am watching a building that my friends are looting and I see a survivor obviously approaching trying to remain unnoticed so I take them out before they are able to get the drop on my friends.

etc., etc., etc., etc.

The list goes on forever.

Flagging "bandits" is a inelegant, brute-force, broken mechanic.

Though, even if it DID work it still wouldn't belong in DayZ so all of this is moot.

[icomrade 201]

hmm i've seen that system used somewhere before. Oh' date=' right, it was used in DayZ, that exact system, who would have guessed...

[/quote']

No.. no it wasn't...

Maybe you forgot how it worked, let me remind you.

A. you kill a survivor and you loose humanity. If humanity was below 0 you became a bandit.

B. You killed a bandit, you gained humanity (hooray).

C. You were a bandit but gained humanity for behaving (not killing survivors), you eventually will become a survivor again. Kind of like that timing idea, just a little...

Note: humanity lost/gained is directly proportional to the amount of humanity that the the player you just killed had.

Did I mention that there were magical skins that identified bandits, wow neat-o!

[KWilt 157]

I'm really getting depressed of this "People would kill everyone they see if this scenario was real life and there were no laws or penalties!" What kind of fucking sociopaths roam the internet? Have you people no notion of morals? Or sympathy? If indeed people would act like this then it would be ok to kill on sight since it would just be people acting like zombies versus people acting like zombies vs zombies. And the mindless walking dead would be on the moral high ground. Now' date=' how fucked is that?

[/quote']

Well, realistically, there would be a certain point where we would become 'shoot on site'. At the worst point of the outbreak, there probably would be no station of civility such as a hamlet or town, so we'd all be pretty much nomads. And if you found someone with supplies you could use, but they wouldn't give them to use because they want to use them as well, would you really buddy up for just half a can of beans, or would you just kill them and get the whole can for free?

[Rinner23 5]

I have an idea for penalty' date=' what if for the very first murder of your "life", your morality plays tricks on you that heavily burdens you physically and mentally somehow and the effect decreases the more you kill.

Like when you get cold or wounded you get consequence of shaking madly, making it hard to aim, or if you catch an infection you cough a lot, attracting more zombies.

There could be a similar but much more severe consequence for murders, by adding it to the morale level.

And realistically, the more you kill the less the effect will be if that's what a player wants to achieve.

I think real bandits will get over this "nerf" quickly but the common "survivors" will be much more careful to take that first step into becoming a murderer.

The whole morale thing sounds accurate for immersion, at least to me.

[/quote']

I get what you are saying, but I don't see why this would occur. If anything the more you kill the more you would become comfortable with it.. the problem is how to distinguish between blatant griefing/camping/spawn killing and killing for food/survival.. and even if you can, is there really a difference - either way you killed someone?

From the basic perspective there is no *direct* negative consequence in life for killing another living being for ones own benefit.. good/evil is purely a human invention - possibly a self emergent aspect due to rapidly expanding population. Religious persons may beg to differ but we are talking purely science here =)

Honestly the moral mechanic has absolutely no place in this game, it should be left to the player base to figure out how to deal with it.. in game, with the base mechanics.

[KWilt 157]

I can think of probably one or two other situations where silly shit like this can happen.

A hell of a lot more than one or two' date=' actually.

If a survivor attempts to steal a vehicle from me and I dispatch him, I'm a "bandit."

If I come across a survivor looting my tent of precious goods and take action, I'm a "bandit."

If someone fires on me, even if they hit, they might have other friends who join combat and also fire on me. If I return fire and happen to hit one of the companions instead of the original assailaint, I'm a "bandit."

If I identify a survivor as a member of a hostile group - traveling with people I know to have attacked myself or friends, I'm a "bandit" if I kill them.

If someone shoots me and then gets in a vehicle with 3-4 other survivors I'm a "bandit" if I destroy that vehicle killing its occupants.

I'm a "bandit" if I take action against someone who I have asked to keep distant and they ignore me and continue to approach.

I'm a "bandit" if I am watching a building that my friends are looting and I see a survivor obviously approaching trying to remain unnoticed so I take them out before they are able to get the drop on my friends.

etc., etc., etc., etc.

The list goes on forever.

Flagging "bandits" is a inelegant, brute-force, broken mechanic.

Though, even if it DID work it still wouldn't belong in DayZ so all of this is moot.

[/quote']

Holy shit. I didn't even think of half of those. Fucking kudos. The only one I can really find a flaw in is the very last one, but I'd still do it if I wanted to keep my buddies safe.

[doitonlan 0]

I really think Pink is missing the point of what has been spawned from this game: there has been a social dynamic created out of the situation that people have been placed in. It does not matter what the "game" turns in to; it is more that the players are creating how we will handle the situation.

Think of it this way. Most of us have started out trying to be friendly, but we have been shaped by our environment where people with sniper rifles from 800m away are a likely threat to our survival. We have had to adapt to survive. Ultimately, I find the whole situation that the game has put us in, and truly if you want to follow the thought of a real apocalyptic scenario where this is the world we have been put in, you should plead or convince other players in the game to act differently rather than try to change the game mechanics.

Quit trying to take away from the realism, in this case that we are abiding by a set of physical laws and adapting to high risk chance for death environment, and learn to adapt and change to your surroundings. If you really want to change things do it within the boundaries that have been created rather than try to safeguard people from other players.

Also, to put it in perspective, in a real world scenario you would not be able to dress people in bandit clothing right after they murder someone, however, if someone were watching they could spread the word about a murderer and blacklist them (I don't see this ever doing much if the situation were in real life or dayz, but it doesn't mean it warrants a safeguard).

[PinkTaco24 10]

hmm i've seen that system used somewhere before. Oh' date=' right, it was used in DayZ, that exact system, who would have guessed...

[/quote']

No.. no it wasn't...

Maybe you forgot how it worked, let me remind you.

A. you kill a survivor and you loose humanity. If humanity was below 0 you became a bandit.

B. You killed a bandit, you gained humanity (hooray).

C. You were a bandit but gained humanity for behaving (not killing survivors), you eventually will become a survivor again. Kind of like that timing idea, just a little...

Note: humanity lost/gained is directly proportional to the amount of humanity that the the player you just killed had.

Did I mention that there were magical skins that identified bandits, wow neat-o!

It was not account based. And there was no margin for error. ie, a few kills here and there that don't perma flag you.

---

Quit trying to take away from the realism' date=' in this case that we are abiding by a set of physical laws and adapting to high risk chance for death environment, and learn to adapt and change to your surroundings. If you really want to change things do it within the boundaries that have been created rather than try to safeguard people from other players.

[/quote']

There is nothing realistic about FFA deathmatch.

---

What is your plan of action to defend Survivor A's actions of self defense? The ARMA system (to my knowledge) does not account for 'who shot first'' date=' but only 'who shot the best'. So, your last point in the OP is completely invalidated. Now, let's take this a step further, shall we?

[/quote']

This is why you are allowed multiple kills before being perma flagged.

I'm sure the devs can find a good kill to play time ratio that would allow people not specifically out to kill others enough leeway where situations like this will not perma flag them.

At least THINK before you post man....

[icomrade 201]

hmm i've seen that system used somewhere before. Oh' date=' right, it was used in DayZ, that exact system, who would have guessed...

[/quote']

No.. no it wasn't...

Maybe you forgot how it worked, let me remind you.

A. you kill a survivor and you loose humanity. If humanity was below 0 you became a bandit.

B. You killed a bandit, you gained humanity (hooray).

C. You were a bandit but gained humanity for behaving (not killing survivors), you eventually will become a survivor again. Kind of like that timing idea, just a little...

Note: humanity lost/gained is directly proportional to the amount of humanity that the the player you just killed had.

Did I mention that there were magical skins that identified bandits, wow neat-o!

It was not account based. And there was no margin for error. ie, a few kills here and there that don't perma flag you.

---

Quit trying to take away from the realism' date=' in this case that we are abiding by a set of physical laws and adapting to high risk chance for death environment, and learn to adapt and change to your surroundings. If you really want to change things do it within the boundaries that have been created rather than try to safeguard people from other players.

[/quote']

There is nothing realistic about FFA deathmatch.

How the hell would it work if it wasn't account based? It sure as hell wasn't based on your player name... it was based on your PID (profile ID), YOUR ACCOUNT. why would they perma-flag you? it would make no sense, because I was a bandit at first, then I changed into a survivor because I simply avoided people instead of shooting them. Everyone can have a change of heart, and they deserve a chance to recover from their old ways.

[KWilt 157]

What is your plan of action to defend Survivor A's actions of self defense? The ARMA system (to my knowledge) does not account for 'who shot first'' date=' but only 'who shot the best'. So, your last point in the OP is completely invalidated. Now, let's take this a step further, shall we?

[/quote']

This is why you are allowed multiple kills before being perma flagged.

I'm sure the devs can find a good kill to play time ratio that would allow people not specifically out to kill others enough leeway where situations like this will not perma flag them.

At least THINK before you post man....

Why don't you respond to the rest of the post before critiquing me. You never answered as to why Survivor A is now dead thanks to Survivor C.

And it's not about being perma-flagged. It's being flagged at all for self defense. If I'm not allowed to defend myself without being marked as a bandit, potentially marking myself as 'kill on sight' to everybody else, when I'm simply trying to survive, you can shove your idea right up your ass.

EDIT:

How the hell would it work if it wasn't account based? It sure as hell wasn't based on your player name... it was based on your PID (profile ID)' date=' YOUR ACCOUNT. why would they perma-flag you? it would make no sense, because I was a bandit at first, then I changed into a survivor because I simply avoided people instead of shooting them. Everyone can have a change of heart, and they deserve a chance to recover from their old ways.

[/quote']

This is another point I wanted to make. But clearly, you're not going to change your position at all.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

There is nothing realistic about FFA deathmatch.

You can sit there and call it a "FFA deathmatch" all you want. Say it until your face turns colors and your lips go numb. Shout it from the hilltops.

No amount of repeating it is going to make it true.

No deathmatch game allows you to survive for hours, let alone days, let alone weeks, let alone over a month.

Learn to survive or get used to dying & crying. rocket is not going to show up on a fiery steed and rescue you like some kind of damsel in distress. Dry those tears, hike that diaper up and reload your weapon. You've got work to do. Nobody's going to do it for you.

[KWilt 157]

How the hell would it work if it wasn't account based? It sure as hell wasn't based on your player name... it was based on your PID (profile ID)' date=' YOUR ACCOUNT. why would they perma-flag you? it would make no sense, because I was a bandit at first, then I changed into a survivor because I simply avoided people instead of shooting them. Everyone can have a change of heart, and they deserve a chance to recover from their old ways.

[/quote']

This is another point I wanted to make. But clearly, you're not going to change your position at all.

[PinkTaco24 10]

A hell of a lot more than one or two' date=' actually.

If a survivor attempts to steal a vehicle from me and I dispatch him, I'm a "bandit."

[/quote'] so flag people who steal equipment that isn't theirs. Tents are tied to accounts. This isn't difficult. Duh.

If I come across a survivor looting my tent of precious goods and take action' date=' I'm a "bandit."[/quote'] see above

If someone fires on me' date=' even if they hit, they might have other friends who join combat and also fire on me. If I return fire and happen to hit one of the companions instead of the original assailaint, I'm a "bandit."

[/quote'] so aim better. I thought you were a 'pro' after all.

If I identify a survivor as a member of a hostile group - traveling with people I know to have attacked myself or friends' date=' I'm a "bandit" if I kill them.[/quote'] you murdered an innocent. regardless of their past actions, they had not initiated aggression in that instance. Yes, you deserve to be a bandit.

If someone shoots me and then gets in a vehicle with 3-4 other survivors I'm a "bandit" if I destroy that vehicle killing its occupants.

you killed innocents. aim better.

I'm a "bandit" if I take action against someone who I have asked to keep distant and they ignore me and continue to approach.

they didn't show any aggression yet. you shot an innocent.

I'm a "bandit" if I am watching a building that my friends are looting and I see a survivor obviously approaching trying to remain unnoticed so I take them out before they are able to get the drop on my friends.

again' date=' they had done nothing wrong yet. You killed an innocent.

etc., etc., etc., etc.

The list goes on forever.

and each argument is as retarded as the other.

[osiriszoran 33]

no tears carebears only dreams

[PinkTaco24 10]

No deathmatch game allows you to survive for hours' date=' let alone days, let alone weeks, let alone over a month.

[/quote'] uhh sure they do.

They are called MMO shooters. Look um up.

Quit talking like you know everything. You clearly know nothing.

[doitonlan 0]

I was hoping to enter an intelligent conversation about the topic, but from the responses Pink is giving I do not believe this is possible with him. I find it to be quite the interesting conversational piece, but he is not interested in actually debating it =(

[JayDeath 0]

Ultimately' date=' I find the whole situation that the game has put us in, and truly if you want to follow the thought of a real apocalyptic scenario where this is the world we have been put in, you should plead or convince other players in the game to act differently rather than try to change the game mechanics.

[/quote']

This run on sentence is hurting my brain.

[KWilt 157]

Whelp, this is proof positive that he'll clutch at anything he can find and call anybody who's being shot at an innocent, even if they shoot back and suddenly have a bandit skin.

Ciao~

[PinkTaco24 10]

How the hell would it work if it wasn't account based? It sure as hell wasn't based on your player name... it was based on your PID (profile ID)' date=' YOUR ACCOUNT. why would they perma-flag you? it would make no sense, because I was a bandit at first, then I changed into a survivor because I simply avoided people instead of shooting them. Everyone can have a change of heart, and they deserve a chance to recover from their old ways.

[/quote']

This is another point I wanted to make. But clearly, you're not going to change your position at all.

And further proof of your lack of reading comprehension KWilt. Read the OP.

Kill tallys decay over time. So if you change your ways, eventually, your perma flag goes away.

simples.

[Yiddus 0]

There's not much to say here. I often find plenty of people I can trust, look at the forums alone, it proves that there are plenty of people who will want to work with other survivors... You see, in an apocalyptic world with no laws and a lack of food and supplies, you would easily kill someone else if it meant another day alive... Seriously, stop having a whine and a moan. Rocket has said plenty of times that PvP is a CORE ELEMENT of DayZ.

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Hahaha. You want me to purposefully aim away from people who are actively firing at me because they are "innocent?"

You want me to let a murderer get away because he got in a vehicle with "innocents?"

You have officially crossed over from silly to ridiculously asinine. Now I just point at you and laugh. Not that I wasn't doing that already, but now it's a hearty belly laugh instead of a chuckle.