I KNOW you're an exploiter if you disagree

[castun66 20]

I hate to repeat myself' date=' but AGAIN standard MMO solutions do not work with this game.

[/quote']

I don't agree with your logic, because in many player's eyes, isn't DayZ essentially an MMO? Albeit one where servers are essentially 'instances' and limited to 50 or so players at once. Just because there isn't any kind of skill or leveling system, or 'end game' doesn't mean that it's not. There's still the persistence inside the servers with vehicles and tents.

Nothing should ever be implemented that can affect even the supposedly miniscule numbers of people you think would be fodder to your system. There should never be any implementation that would accidentally put unlucky people in the crosshairs' date=' not matter how small the number is.

A system that does as such, is a system that does not work, and should find a peaceful place to die.

[/quote']

Problem is, with the disconnect from PvP issue at least, no matter what kind of solution is put into place, people are going to complain that they're somehow inconvenienced or put at risk if something goes wrong. If they were somehow able to detect the difference between you shutting down the game process through the task manager and you legitimately losing your connection, people would just pull the network cable from their computer, because from the server's viewpoint it's the exact same result.

If there is a way to game the system, people will. That's why there cannot a soft-handed approach to this kind of thing.

Eve online is a horrible comparison' date=' because you have insurance.

[/quote']

Well, to be fair, insurance only covers a portion of the cost of the ship itself. All weapons, armor, clones, implants, etc. is not. Getting 15 million back from a 20 million ship may sound like a lot but not when you had another 500 million in high end equipment and implants that's not covered.

Sure you still have your XP, assuming your clone was up to date, but you could lose EVERYTHING in one death if you weren't careful. Just like DayZ.

[BrandonWA 0]

The truth is that it's 2012 and internet connections don't suck anymore.

I'm sad to say this but I am the exception to this truth. Middle of nowhere, Arkansas. Satellite internet. Surrounded by trees. Internet connection sucks.

[evulclown@gmail.com 191]

too much stuff

I recommend you view my post a few before that one.

No' date=' log out timer is NOT elegant, and AGAIN MMO STYLE MEASURES do not work for a MAJOR reason: In MMOs you don't lose everything after death. Even in Eve, you have insurance.

[/quote']

Ultima online, tibia etc. Just because the recent batch of MMOs got all care bear, doesn't mean that oldschool MMOs were not hardcore to the max and didn't include lock down timers. 15 minutes you were locked down in some games after you killed a guy -- And guess what? It was justified, if you died you lost ALL your equipment and days of work. The PvP was intense and satisfying all the more because of it... It brought realistic emotions into the game which are all too lost in so many easy mode games these days.

[Wired 1]

Snipped for length

First' date=' No. This isn't an MMO. your stats are persistent from server to server, but they are in battlefield and diablo 3 as well. They're not mmos though.

MMO implies full persistence as well as a massive world.

And again, You still get something back from eve. You have to go Out of your way to not be careful and lose everything in permanently in Eve.

[hr']

too much stuff

I recommend you view my post a few before that one.

No' date=' log out timer is NOT elegant, and AGAIN MMO STYLE MEASURES do not work for a MAJOR reason: In MMOs you don't lose everything after death. Even in Eve, you have insurance.

[/quote']

Ultima online, tibia etc. Just because the recent batch of MMOs got all care bear, doesn't mean that oldschool MMOs were not hardcore to the max and didn't include lock down timers. 15 minutes you were locked down in some games after you killed a guy -- And guess what? It was justified, if you died you lost ALL your equipment and days of work. The PvP was intense and satisfying all the more because of it... It brought realistic emotions into the game which are all too lost in so many easy mode games these days.

Ah Ultima online. such a great game.

However you over estimate the logout time in UO. Even before it got carebeared, campfires were a waste of time.

[castun66 20]

FFS, MMO implies....Massively Multiplayer Online. Just because it doesn't fit into one of the already established game styles doesn't mean it can't be a type of MMO just because you say so.

[evulclown@gmail.com 191]

Snipped for length

First' date=' No. This isn't an MMO. your stats are persistent from server to server, but they are in battlefield and diablo 3 as well. They're not mmos though.

MMO implies full persistence as well as a massive world.

And again, You still get something back from eve. You have to go Out of your way to not be careful and lose everything in permanently in Eve.

[hr']

too much stuff

I recommend you view my post a few before that one.

No' date=' log out timer is NOT elegant, and AGAIN MMO STYLE MEASURES do not work for a MAJOR reason: In MMOs you don't lose everything after death. Even in Eve, you have insurance.

[/quote']

Ultima online, tibia etc. Just because the recent batch of MMOs got all care bear, doesn't mean that oldschool MMOs were not hardcore to the max and didn't include lock down timers. 15 minutes you were locked down in some games after you killed a guy -- And guess what? It was justified, if you died you lost ALL your equipment and days of work. The PvP was intense and satisfying all the more because of it... It brought realistic emotions into the game which are all too lost in so many easy mode games these days.

Ah Ultima online. such a great game.

However you over estimate the logout time in UO. Even before it got carebeared, campfires were a waste of time.

The 15 minute timer was Tibia. The point also stands, PvP is so, so much better when there are things to loose. When people can't log off or run to their safe zone at the drop of a hat. Human emotions like fear, panic come into play -- you get a genuine adrenaline rush from pixels. It's fun...

[TheMachine 803]

Snipped for length

First' date=' No. This isn't an MMO. your stats are persistent from server to server, but they are in battlefield and diablo 3 as well. They're not mmos though.

MMO implies full persistence as well as a massive world.

And again, You still get something back from eve. You have to go Out of your way to not be careful and lose everything in permanently in Eve.

[hr']

too much stuff

I recommend you view my post a few before that one.

No' date=' log out timer is NOT elegant, and AGAIN MMO STYLE MEASURES do not work for a MAJOR reason: In MMOs you don't lose everything after death. Even in Eve, you have insurance.

[/quote']

Ultima online, tibia etc. Just because the recent batch of MMOs got all care bear, doesn't mean that oldschool MMOs were not hardcore to the max and didn't include lock down timers. 15 minutes you were locked down in some games after you killed a guy -- And guess what? It was justified, if you died you lost ALL your equipment and days of work. The PvP was intense and satisfying all the more because of it... It brought realistic emotions into the game which are all too lost in so many easy mode games these days.

Ah Ultima online. such a great game.

However you over estimate the logout time in UO. Even before it got carebeared, campfires were a waste of time.

The 15 minute timer was Tibia. The point also stands, PvP is so, so much better when there are things to loose. When people can't log off or run to their safe zone at the drop of a hat. Human emotions like fear, panic come into play -- you get a genuine adrenaline rush from pixels. It's fun...

People don't like fun and danger, they want safety and level grinding.

[castun66 20]

Dying in DayZ doesn't necessarily mean you lose all your stuff, if you are lucky & fortunate enough to have a stashed tent or vehicle somewhere. I fail to see why you're trying to apply some arbitrary measure to suit your needs.

[Wired 1]

FFS' date=' MMO implies....Massively Multiplayer Online. Just because it doesn't fit into one of the already established game styles doesn't mean it can't be a type of MMO just because you say so.

[/quote']

But that's exactly what you are doing: trying to apply MMO to something which isn't. If Dayz is an mmo, than Call of Duty, Battlefield 3, Diablo 3, etc are one. Any game which shares its info with a central server is an mmo.

Heck the closest example is Dark Souls, which is NOT an mmo despite the fact that you can get jumped in your own game.

---

Dying in DayZ doesn't necessarily mean you lose all your stuff' date=' if you are lucky & fortunate enough to have a stashed tent or vehicle somewhere. I fail to see why you're trying to apply some arbitrary measure to suit your needs.

[/quote']

Tents/vehicles degrade faster after you die. For a reason.

---

Snipped for length

First' date=' No. This isn't an MMO. your stats are persistent from server to server, but they are in battlefield and diablo 3 as well. They're not mmos though.

MMO implies full persistence as well as a massive world.

And again, You still get something back from eve. You have to go Out of your way to not be careful and lose everything in permanently in Eve.

[hr']

too much stuff

I recommend you view my post a few before that one.

No' date=' log out timer is NOT elegant, and AGAIN MMO STYLE MEASURES do not work for a MAJOR reason: In MMOs you don't lose everything after death. Even in Eve, you have insurance.

[/quote']

Ultima online, tibia etc. Just because the recent batch of MMOs got all care bear, doesn't mean that oldschool MMOs were not hardcore to the max and didn't include lock down timers. 15 minutes you were locked down in some games after you killed a guy -- And guess what? It was justified, if you died you lost ALL your equipment and days of work. The PvP was intense and satisfying all the more because of it... It brought realistic emotions into the game which are all too lost in so many easy mode games these days.

Ah Ultima online. such a great game.

However you over estimate the logout time in UO. Even before it got carebeared, campfires were a waste of time.

The 15 minute timer was Tibia. The point also stands, PvP is so, so much better when there are things to loose. When people can't log off or run to their safe zone at the drop of a hat. Human emotions like fear, panic come into play -- you get a genuine adrenaline rush from pixels. It's fun...

People like pvp for different reasons. If getting free kills because someone crashed at the wrong time gives you adrenaline, than you need to get checked.

Let me underscore something here: If you are posting here because you want PvP to be more exciting, then you're posting to this idea for the wrong reason. You need to understand that there are a host of legitimate reasons for someone to lose their connection at the wrong time, and you need to be less worried about increasing your kill count.

What I have posted regarding the game is not a carebear stance. it is a common sense approach to something which IS a problem with the game and doesn't just lump everyone who loses connection to the game into the same category. You need to think along these lines. My ideas are not perfect, however they are a far cry above "Let a guy stand there for 30 minutes so that I can stumble apon him, kill him, and get free gear because he was unfortunate enough to not have the right video card in his computer"

[evulclown@gmail.com 191]

FFS' date=' MMO implies....Massively Multiplayer Online. Just because it doesn't fit into one of the already established game styles doesn't mean it can't be a type of MMO just because you say so.

[/quote']

But that's exactly what you are doing: trying to apply MMO to something which isn't. If Dayz is an mmo, than Call of Duty, Battlefield 3, Diablo 3, etc are one. Any game which shares its info with a central server is an mmo.

Heck the closest example is Dark Souls, which is NOT an mmo despite the fact that you can get jumped in your own game.

---

Dying in DayZ doesn't necessarily mean you lose all your stuff' date=' if you are lucky & fortunate enough to have a stashed tent or vehicle somewhere. I fail to see why you're trying to apply some arbitrary measure to suit your needs.

[/quote']

Tents/vehicles degrade faster after you die. For a reason.

---

Snipped for length

First' date=' No. This isn't an MMO. your stats are persistent from server to server, but they are in battlefield and diablo 3 as well. They're not mmos though.

MMO implies full persistence as well as a massive world.

And again, You still get something back from eve. You have to go Out of your way to not be careful and lose everything in permanently in Eve.

[hr']

I recommend you view my post a few before that one.

No' date=' log out timer is NOT elegant, and AGAIN MMO STYLE MEASURES do not work for a MAJOR reason: In MMOs you don't lose everything after death. Even in Eve, you have insurance.

[/quote']

Ultima online, tibia etc. Just because the recent batch of MMOs got all care bear, doesn't mean that oldschool MMOs were not hardcore to the max and didn't include lock down timers. 15 minutes you were locked down in some games after you killed a guy -- And guess what? It was justified, if you died you lost ALL your equipment and days of work. The PvP was intense and satisfying all the more because of it... It brought realistic emotions into the game which are all too lost in so many easy mode games these days.

Ah Ultima online. such a great game.

However you over estimate the logout time in UO. Even before it got carebeared, campfires were a waste of time.

The 15 minute timer was Tibia. The point also stands, PvP is so, so much better when there are things to loose. When people can't log off or run to their safe zone at the drop of a hat. Human emotions like fear, panic come into play -- you get a genuine adrenaline rush from pixels. It's fun...

People like pvp for different reasons. If getting free kills because someone crashed at the wrong time gives you adrenaline, than you need to get checked.

Nothing gets me off more than someone with a wooden PC being punished for being a cheapass. You're holding the rest of the world back. You're that WW1 commander being angry at the new school show offs with their fancy tanks and machine guns -- MY HORSES ARE BETTER. Get with the times and buy a PC that isn't beige.

[Wired 1]

Nothing gets me off more than someone with a wooden PC being punished for being a cheapass. You're holding the rest of the world back. You're that WW1 commander being angry at the new school show offs with their fancy tanks and machine guns -- MY HORSES ARE BETTER. Get with the times and buy a PC that isn't beige.

My computer is actually pretty decent, hand built with some mild overclocking and a good solid graphics card.

Being someone who is a computer science major, I happen to understand what happens when you have a alpha-state software running on a beta-state of another piece of software. Pro-tip: it's not pretty.

ITT: itputsthelotion making baseless assumptions.

[evulclown@gmail.com 191]

Nothing gets me off more than someone with a wooden PC being punished for being a cheapass. You're holding the rest of the world back. You're that WW1 commander being angry at the new school show offs with their fancy tanks and machine guns -- MY HORSES ARE BETTER. Get with the times and buy a PC that isn't beige.

My computer is actually pretty decent' date=' hand built with some mild overclocking and a good solid graphics card.

Being someone who is a computer science major, I happen to understand what happens when you have a alpha-state software running on a beta-state of another piece of software. Pro-tip: it's not pretty.

ITT: itputsthelotion making baseless assumptions.

[/quote']

ITT: Wired makes some extremely flimsy excuses as to why he should still be allowed to Alt+F4 into safety. Alt+F4 out of this thread, you're a joke. Go play http://www.playfg.com/barbie-as-rapunzel-game.html if you're worried about your internet dropping or your PC crashing. Apparently any game with an element of risk is beyond you.

[ThEgg 0]

Also who's gameplay do you think is more "ruined"? The guy who doesn't get a kill because the someone logged on him' date=' or the guy who loses connection for whatever reason and dies because he is standing in the middle of a field or on the street for 40 seconds?

[/quote']

This man has the right idea.

[TheMachine 803]

They want easy mode, they'll make any excuse to have these exploits left in game.

From raptors on the interstate highway attacking their friend (they got go afk FAST) to hurricanes knocking their houses down.

[Surg3on 4]

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

This means stopping ridiculous server hopping' date=' d/c exploiting >>>>>> a few random internet d/c deaths.

[/quote']

I gotta agree here. As an aussie with aussie quality internet I'll take the risk of dying to disconnect. In reality 95% of my time is sneaking around with very little risk of staying logged in for 30 seconds killing me.

[Wired 1]

ITT: Wired makes some extremely flimsy excuses as to why he should still be allowed to Alt+F4 into safety. Alt+F4 out of this thread' date=' you're a joke. Go play http://www.playfg.com/barbie-as-rapunzel-game.html if you're worried about your internet dropping or your PC crashing. Apparently any game with an element of risk is beyond you.

[/quote']

in case you hadn't heard...

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=14753

[TheMachine 803]

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

This means stopping ridiculous server hopping' date=' d/c exploiting >>>>>> a few random internet d/c deaths.

[/quote']

I gotta agree here. As an aussie with aussie quality internet I'll take the risk of dying to disconnect. In reality 95% of my time is sneaking around with very little risk of staying logged in for 30 seconds killing me.

Exactly, jesus christ.

Finally someone gets it.

[castun66 20]

You need to understand that there are a host of legitimate reasons for someone to lose their connection at the wrong time' date=' and you need to be less worried about increasing your kill count.

[/quote']

And I'm sure all those people I've shot at suddenly had something come up the instant the SHTF. Heck, I've managed to kill a few on the very first shot, and guess what? One guy was even able to disconnect and come right back in next to his corpse a few times with all his gear still.

I'm done arguing about the MMO thing, but as I said before:

If they were somehow able to detect the difference between you shutting down the game process through the task manager and you legitimately losing your connection, people would just pull the network cable from their computer, because from the server's viewpoint it's the exact same result.

If there is a way to game the system, people will.

If the problem isn't fixed properly, people will still take advantage of it one way or another. Being temporarily locked out of a server you disconnected from, regardless of reason, is a good start, but it's not perfect either.

[evulclown@gmail.com 191]

ITT: Wired makes some extremely flimsy excuses as to why he should still be allowed to Alt+F4 into safety. Alt+F4 out of this thread' date=' you're a joke. Go play http://www.playfg.com/barbie-as-rapunzel-game.html if you're worried about your internet dropping or your PC crashing. Apparently any game with an element of risk is beyond you.

[/quote']

in case you hadn't heard...

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=14753

I've browsed your link, I'm still failing to see where I'm not allowed to suggest that you to go play "dress up Barbie Rapunzel" if you're incapable of playing a game where you might die if your shoddy internet connection / broken PC dies.

Also: "I'M A COMPUTER SCIENCE MAJOR" is a hilarious boast card for you to even think of pulling out. EXCUSE ME SIR ON THE INTERNET, I DO BELIEVE I WENT TO COLLEGE YOUR ARGUMENTS ARE INVALID.

[OWD Trademarked 1]

In my opinion it is pointless to create a completely different problem while working on an already existing one. We want to eliminate the problems, not have the dev team code something in that will only bring in more issues.

[eero.afheurlin@iki.fi 0]

Also who's gameplay do you think is more "ruined"? The guy who doesn't get a kill because the someone logged on him' date=' or the guy who loses connection for whatever reason and dies because he is standing in the middle of a field or on the street for 40 seconds?

[/quote']

This man has the right idea.

I don't care about kill counts (in fact I play friendly), I care about people actually facing the consequences of their actions (shoot at me and I will come for you [in case you were a lousy shot, many seem to be], DCing to get away from that is just low) and so far I haven't figured out (see the suggestions forum thread but keep it civil and constructive please) any better way to solve the three problems than timers (see the post in my sig)

1. Ghosts (solvable by having a *timer* [and a long one, as in 30minutes or so] that prevents logging back in to server A if has logged in to server B in between)

2. DC to avoid consequences (not just immediate death but also starting a fight and missing the shot then not wanting to continue on a more even footing)

3. server hopping to farm loot

There is a fourth slightly related problem which is people spawning in hot zones in supposedly "cleared" areas and then "unfairly" getting the drop on the players who did the clearing, I also comment on it.

[dsi24 227]

lol @ people seriously suggesting that internet outages are as common as people alt+f4ing to avoid death.

[apress155 0]

Granted it was single player, in the fallout series, you could rest while enemies were nearby. How about you can't log out when enemies are neaby. If you d/c for WHATEVER reason, 50% of your blood is taken away. So have a disclaimer when you log in stating this. That way, you can't log when withing 50m (or so of hostiles/players) and if you do alt f4 there is a sort of consequence. And definitely, put a server switch timer on the game. If you leave a server, you can't join another for 15 min or something like that.

[ChiefMasterKush 321]

if your within 50meters of an enemy you might as well be sitting at the same table eating dinner.

I think most killing happens at 100-200+ meters

edit: also 50% blood loss, who cares? as long as its less than 100% blood loss then your alive, when you rejoin eat the 10 meat in your backpack and continue on with life.

[Wired 1]

Granted it was single player' date=' in the fallout series, you could rest while enemies were nearby. How about you can't log out when enemies are neaby. If you d/c for WHATEVER reason, 50% of your blood is taken away. So have a disclaimer when you log in stating this. That way, you can't log when withing 50m (or so of hostiles/players) and if you do alt f4 there is a sort of consequence. And definitely, put a server switch timer on the game. If you leave a server, you can't join another for 15 min or something like that.

[/quote']

This would be a great fix for zombies. 50m is close enough for the super fast zombies to keep up with you.

However, versus players it's not so convenient.