An idea on solving PVP

[infinity2209 0]

Now, to start with I ask everyone to keep any of the following out of this thread:

Remove PVP.- Never going to happen, the game would be boring without it.

Go back to CoD. - Do I need to explain why?

Stop Crying/Care bear/kids/whiner comments. - Only encourages flaming, nothing more.

Now, what are the main reasons people shoot on sight?

1. Fun, without PVP the game would be very dull. Once you get a decent weapon, dying to zombies is nearly impossible. What's the answer to this? Increase the difficulty.

2. There's no reason not to. There has to be consequences to shooting, this leads into the fact that not shooting is a massive risk to your life, without any real rewards for it. Add a reason NOT to shoot in the form of shooting someone has negative effects instead of a positive effect for letting them live.

Now my idea is that every murder would have a consequence. These ranging from minor annoyances to major problems and possibly causes of death. Some relate to luck and the fact that you could become unluckier the more you murder. Others would be status effects or general problems for the killer.

Status Effects.

a: Covered In Blood.

After killing X survivors your clothes would naturally be stained in blood, you never change them after all. This would only apply if your within a certain range when you commit the murder.

This could draw double or even triple the normal amount of zombies, while doubling there normal aggressive range. Think sprinting while under this, you'd pull them from towns away. Can be removed by entering a lake or changing gear, if you change gear the original clothes will still be stained.

b: Reflections.

It's not natural that a human could kill without regret. So how about adding a status effect that'd last for thirty minutes (1hour for the second kill, one hour thirty for the third) after killing a survivor you'd have visions that don't exist (hallucinations) dead bodies? You name it, it'd appear on the screen.

This would cause players to move toward it, or even shoot at it then realize it isn't even there, make it difficult to determine between reality and imagination. This would be the main reason not to kill in a realistic setting, I'd imagine most people couldn't live with themselves afterwards.

d: Reason to live (Faith)

Now this is the end of the world pretty much, but there still has to be reasons worth living for. If your going to live alone permanently just trying to survive, why live?

Perhaps add a faith indicator that would increase by spending time with other survivors, being alone would slowly decrease it. Now of course there needs to be a way to fill this up without spending time with others so perhaps allow players to pray at churches to increase faith instead of spending time with other players, this allows it to be possible to play without other players only more difficult, similar to blood regeneration.

When faith is at an all time low, the color would drain from the world, similar to losing blood. This reflects giving up all hope. This effect is an inconvenience rather than life threatening, but it does make the game more difficult.

May add more later, for now I'll post and see what people think. Trolls are welcome to bump my thread as they wish. :rolleyes:

Change Log:

V1.1: Removed Curses due to negative feedback.

[zecele 211]

I dont see anything wrong with pvp just a lot of people moaning.

But the blood idea is very good +1

[Redrick (DayZ) 72]

Plus 1 to the blood and the halucinasions

[disastr 7]

The people that are upset about PVP need to go and play on a non PVP server only, that's the only solution. I hate to break it to you guys, but PVP is staying and I highly doubt it's going to punish players for the best aspect of the game.

I am glad that the DayZ developers are allowing PVP in full force, rather than trying to secure it from happening like most mainstream user friendly games. A lot of players believe people wouldn't shoot each other on site if they saw one another in a real zombie apocalypse. Well, let's be honest here, a zombie apocalypse would never happen and secondly, if it did... I can promise you, 50% of the population would be violent towards one another. We live in a policed world now and we still have a ridiculous amount of crimes. Male children are extremely cynical at a young age, the reason why they become loveable and friendly is because of good parenting, especially the mothers.

It's all about balance.

[Valec 55]

I think this post tries to solve the 'problem' in all the wrong ways. Instead of providing a penalty to people who kill, wouldn't it make more sense to provide a reward for NOT doing it? Instead of restricting other people's play styles, provide a positive reason for them to play differently, while leaving them the option.

I'm not sure what you could do in this regard, however, I still believe penalizing people for PVPing in a game with PVP is just inappropriate. Not to mention you could exploit that in all sorts of delicious ways, such as shooting somebody once with a mak(or even shooting near them and not hitting them), which will most certainly cause them to shoot back and kill you, thus receiving penalties only for what they saw as defending themselves.

[M@rshall 3]

I think these ideas are great and they don't seem to intrude so much on my style of play which is to shoot every god damned mother fucker that I see, without fail, without hesitation.

[Deviant (DayZ) 43]

If you run around and kill people, you should not be punished for it, like in real life.

However, getting mentally fucked up-like effects, such as hallucinations, would be interesting.

And remember, PVP is not "killing the game". PvP is part of Survival. You survive by AVOIDING CONTACT with people. It is your fault if you decide to trust people. It makes the game MUCH more difficult to try and befriend everyone, simply because people join as "Bandit" groups, and kill people for their things. Anything could happen in an apocalypse, other people killing other people is part of that. Not trusting anyone is also part of it.

If you cry about PvP, please do so in the PvP discussion thread. Otherwise, your "cursed" suggestion is really laughable. It's too much, IMO. Hallucinating would be interesting, however.

[arkental 5]

I like the blood idea/effects, but how would you explain getting covered in blood if you kill someone from a distance? Sounds more likely you'd get it after attempting to loot a recently killed player.

The hallucinations are also interesting, but I'm guessing it would be hard to implement without a lot of bugs. I have to admit I don't like this suggestion primarily out of the anti-deathmatch motivation behind it, but because it would be tremendously interesting to see DayZ try to simulate the mental state you might find yourself in after killing someone.

Curses though? No thanks.

[trancetasy 1]

blah blah blah

[haviv[3rdid] 57]

No, this is not Supernatural: The Game. Though I have to say Dean Winchester is like a boss

[ninthtj 1]

I like the blood idea, not so sure about some of the others. Also.. Clothes can be changed. I have changed into a Ghillie suit multiple times.

[xcess (DayZ) 0]

PvP isn't something to be solved, but something to be worked around, if that's your play style. The point is choices.

There does need to be more to do outside of PvP, starting settlements and the like, but PvP will give those settlements life, as reason to defend them.

[Hawk24 94]

a: Covered In Blood.

So you loot bodies by opening their chest cavity with a hunting knife?

b: Reflections.

So the "good guys" won't have "reflections" even though they've killed hundreds and hundreds of former human beings and have seen their friends die?

A battle hardened warrior will have a mental breakdown about someone he shot, but not about all the other cruelties he has experienced in the zombie apocalypse...that makes bloody sense........

c: Cursed.

And now you're going rampage with artificial bullshit limitations, if there was any reason to take your thread seriously before, it's now completely gone

d: Reason to live (Faith)

If our character is able to kill a human being in order to survive he must already have a reason to live

Fucking moron

Yet another "I don't want to punish bandits, but let's punish bandits"-thread

[Tranqlusion 0]

Why do people even post these.. I dough they will even change it! It is just a waste of time and this game makes it 100X better with PvP!!

[infinity2209 0]

djdecks2 - True, but when alot of people moan it's usually because there is a problem.

Redrick - Thanks.

disastr - I don't think people realize how difficult it would actually be to pull the trigger. Non PVP servers would split the community entirely, in order for there to be good there has to be evil.

Valec - I don't believe you should be rewarded for doing what is expected of you. You aren't rewarded in real life for not committing mass murder, your punished if you do. There incentive not to kill is not receiving any penalty, while the reward for killing is the loot and not needing to rely on others.

M@rshall - Thanks.

Deviant - The cursed idea comes from the theory of "What goes around-comes around" in that if you commit murder you'll likely pay for it later. I like PVP but having everyone murder everyone on sight is leaving the game as PvP only because the zombies are just to weak, there no threat at all as soon as your armed.

Arkental - Naturally it'd only happen if you killed within a set range as I said. I believe the idea of getting covered in blood by looting someone would be nice as well.

Benjamin - Don't believe I know that series.

Terence - Yes, I mentioned it'd be removed by changing gear.

xcess - I believe there has to be a punishment for murder, as well as a reason not to kill. Right now there's a reward for killing(loot/less chance of being killed yourself) and no reward for playing friendly other than blood bags.

Hawk24 - No, but I'm fairly sure if you bash someones head in with an Axe there is going to be blood, everywhere? No? People who play friendly HAVEN'T killed loads of humans before, that's kind of the point of playing friendly. Mass murder is a reason to live, in what sense exactly? I didn't say I don't want to punish bandits, I do. There has to be a reason not to kill because right now there are many reasons to kill and none not to, other than blood bags.

Tranqulusion - I can't take anyone serious that uses two exclamation marks instead of one, sorry. Anyway I don't want PvP removed, I want there to be a reason not to do it, since currently there's only reasons to kill.

[Maldoror123 0]

Now, what are the main reasons people shoot on sight?

Just Happend: I saw an Player, got an better Position. i could easy kill him...

He Noticed me, shout "Dont shoot im friendly" in his micro. ok. a friendly player lets start a conversation. i lost the sight, but trought he was hiding in front of me somewhere. My Micro doesnt work and so i start typing. and what happend? Right, hes shooting in my back....my good start and all the nice gear i found until that point lost to a traitor^^

lesson learned: never again let an player alive :-P

i dont complain it. its a part of the game. i do just explain why its better to shoot every stranger you meet^^

[djkling 5]

If we are trying to make a sim, as i've said in the past, the NORMAL human response is band together. You should have a morale meter. It goes up when you are near people, down when you are near zombies and when you kill someone. Obviously some people will be bandits so I think THOSE people (once they pass a threshold of kills and dump their morale so low) should get BONUSES for kills and their morale goes DOWN if they DONT kill. Bandits would be unaffected by morale from being around people... only killing.

There is a curve so that you have to push your punishment first then get benefit. Most people who survive can thus kill people but will NEED to band together, Bandits will avoid eachother and have to make kills to avoid whatever penalty

The world is not full of sociopathic killers, and to MAKE someone a killer takes a certain stimulus. This is pretty similar. Make a person so broken that they hate everyone! The rest of the people should be encouraged to band together

[Deviant (DayZ) 43]

Remember that rocket isn't designing this game to be a simulator please ;)

[grrinc 7]

Good ideas OP

I agree that pvp is a needed part of the game because it adds the extra danger element.

However, pvp needs to work hand in hand with folk who want to simply survive with humanity.

My suggestions are similar to yours....

At the begining of the game, players select 'Good guy' or 'Bad guy'

An appropriate skin is then assigned for all to see.

If a Good guy then starts murdering ( even accidental and self defense ), an insanity aspect kicks in - hallucinations, shakes, etc. This can be reduced by periods of peaceful living, or dealt with by a dependency on drugs or alcohol. This should discourage mindless killing.

Bad guys are simply avoidable because of an obvious skin that make them stand out as untrustworthy guys. However, if a bad guys starts peaceful life style - he starts turning pink to highlight his decent into homosexuality.

Also, intelligent / dynamic spawning - bullets are extremely aware and spawn only when necessary to avoid stock piling.

[b501 1]

no pvp in a military sim game? smart

[grrinc 7]

no pvp in a military sim game? smart

Eh? Arma 2 is the military sim mate. DayZ is a survival game.

Also the OP and others are simply asking for balance, not an outright ban on PvP.

I wish folk would read the threads, that would be smart.

[peliluola@gmail.com 28]

Yup, covered in blood doesn't make sense, unless you kill with a hatchet and the first few squirts of blood from a main artery hit you straight on the jacket. Even looting could easily be done without getting blood on you in real life. Reflections would be kinda nice, bandits would be wasting that precious ammo :)

[wasrad 42]

There is no PVP problem. Here, this is more suited to your gameplay preference: http://www.barbie-games.net/games/a-kiss-in-a-hammock.html

Now' date=' to start with I ask everyone to keep any of the following out of this thread:

Remove PVP.- Never going to happen, the game would be boring without it.

Go back to CoD. - Do I need to explain why?

Stop Crying/Care bear/kids/whiner comments. - Only encourages flaming, nothing more.[/size']

Now, what are the main reasons people shoot on sight?

1. Fun, without PVP the game would be very dull. Once you get a decent weapon, dying to zombies is nearly impossible. What's the answer to this? Increase the difficulty.

2. There's no reason not to. There has to be consequences to shooting, this leads into the fact that not shooting is a massive risk to your life, without any real rewards for it. Add a reason NOT to shoot in the form of shooting someone has negative effects instead of a positive effect for letting them live.

Now my idea is that every murder would have a consequence. These ranging from minor annoyances to major problems and possibly causes of death. Some relate to luck and the fact that you could become unluckier the more you murder. Others would be status effects or general problems for the killer.

Status Effects.

a: Covered In Blood.

After killing X survivors your clothes would naturally be stained in blood, you never change them after all. This would only apply if your within a certain range when you commit the murder.

This could draw double or even triple the normal amount of zombies, while doubling there normal aggressive range. Think sprinting while under this, you'd pull them from towns away. Can be removed by entering a lake or changing gear, if you change gear the original clothes will still be stained.

b: Reflections.

It's not natural that a human could kill without regret. So how about adding a status effect that'd last for thirty minutes (1hour for the second kill, one hour thirty for the third) after killing a survivor you'd have visions that don't exist (hallucinations) dead bodies? You name it, it'd appear on the screen.

This would cause players to move toward it, or even shoot at it then realize it isn't even there, make it difficult to determine between reality and imagination. This would be the main reason not to kill in a realistic setting, I'd imagine most people couldn't live with themselves afterwards.

d: Reason to live (Faith)

Now this is the end of the world pretty much, but there still has to be reasons worth living for. If your going to live alone permanently just trying to survive, why live?

Perhaps add a faith indicator that would increase by spending time with other survivors, being alone would slowly decrease it. Now of course there needs to be a way to fill this up without spending time with others so perhaps allow players to pray at churches to increase faith instead of spending time with other players, this allows it to be possible to play without other players only more difficult, similar to blood regeneration.

When faith is at an all time low, the color would drain from the world, similar to losing blood. This reflects giving up all hope. This effect is an inconvenience rather than life threatening, but it does make the game more difficult.

May add more later, for now I'll post and see what people think. Trolls are welcome to bump my thread as they wish. :rolleyes:

Change Log:

V1.1: Removed Curses due to negative feedback.

[infinity2209 0]

Maldoror123 - The problem is that everyone takes that attitude eventually and it's simply a death match.

Kling - Could work.

Deviant - It pretty much is, in most respects.

Grrinc - Good ideas.

B501 - Sigh..

WoRtEx - Obviously it would be range limited.

Tocmasterk - Nice of you to bump my thread and provide a copy of it on later pages for readers. Appreciated.