Banning for inappropriate behaviour...

[Karmaterror 982]

it's a sandbox game. if it's in the game...it's on.

 

I cannot imagine the devs putting in X hours of effort to implement the other 2 features you mention, that have never been part of the game.

Just like they won't spend X hours developing a spanky new system to cripple player conversations.

 

Racism isn't a freeking feature....it isn't "in the game" the game is just lacking preventative measures to stop it. You missed my point....the reason those features wont be put in is becauseit crosses some ethical line for the devs. That line should have racism on the same side as rape ect. Not on the OK side of the line.

 

So not being able to be racist will QUOTE "cripple player conversations" to you....REALLY?

 

That's the single biggest exaggeration iv ever seen.

[chokko 45]

 

 

If it was reported the devs could issue the ban/warning.

 

 

I think most people would prefer the devs actually.....continue development of the game ? not spending all day sitting by the whinge inbox to respond to an ACCUSATION of bad language being used. this is a server admin responsibility. so it comes back to the servers policies, as to whether bad words are allowed. If not, admin checks the chat logs. and if it happened in voice chat...well tough luck OP..there is no evidence.

[Bororm 1156]

 

You never answered the question....you just say it wont work.....my groups l4d2 server kicks for racism....it is possible and can work.

 

Now...what would we LOOSE if you couldn't say racist words?

 

So find a white listed server to play on where they don't allow people to be racist.  A blanket system built into the game can't properly police such a grey area as racism.  There are plenty of people who use racial slurs in a non-racist manner, it's part of their every day speech.  They shouldn't be punished because other people find it offensive.  Some one could find any word offensive, do you want to be punished for saying "god damn" just because some religious folk might be offended?

 

Police it yourself, start your own server and white list it and kick people for it, I'm pretty sure those tools are going to be in if they aren't already.

[aasand 92]

Now this is a very good point....what to class as racist and what not to. Obviously its a highly personal thing and is different player to player. However im sure there are a damn good few words (that im not going to type) that people could universally class as racist remarks.

Black people use the n word all the time. Then there should also be a system who check the skincolor of the person saying that. Because as far i know im white so i can't use it without being a racist but if they do it then it's ok i guess.  But if i was a black character and roleplaying it's ok? What if i want to roleplay a racist? Is it roleplay or racism?

 

This is getting complicated, time consuming and expensive..

Edited December 29, 2014 by aasand

[chokko 45]

Racism isn't a freeking feature....it isn't "in the game" the game is just lacking preventative measures to stop it. You missed my point....the reason those features wont be put in is becauseit crosses some ethical line for the devs. That line should have racism on the same side as rape ect. Not on the OK side of the line.

 

So not being able to be racist will QUOTE "cripple player conversations" to you....REALLY?

 

That's the single biggest exaggeration iv ever seen.

 

Murder isn't a freAking feature...it isn't "in the game" the game is just lacking preventative measures to stop it.

 

You miss my point, it requires a conscious decision and physical effort for devs to implement rape/bj. Hardly high on the list when 0.01% of players want it and the rest of the game is in a woeful state.

 

of course it will cripple conversations...it blocks how a player wants to interact with others. If someone wants to be rude to me in the game and get me worked up...it's all part of the cruel world that we want to survive in.

 

if that's the biggest exaggeration you've heard, I suggest you get outside a bit more..heck - you might become a little less sensitive to the world ;)

[Karmaterror 982]

 

And this system would also be abused and worked around like everything else.

 

Last question we have already answered that many times.

 

Yes lets stop fighting hacking aswell....because ya know...it will be worked around like everything else.

 

And since I asked it you have expertly side stepped it like a political guru....because the answer we all know is nothing....you would loose nothing. But  it could help people who may be less thick skinned than you.

 

Left 4 Dead and DayZ are nothing alike. One has a chat box that all players can see and voice chat teams use, and all players are close together in a linear path. DayZ is 225 square kilometers with 50 players wandering all over the place. The fact you compare these two is astonishing. It's unconceivable that you could think these two could be compared.

 

What will we lose if players can't say racist words?

 

You lose the most central, fundamental, basic element of what DayZ is... a player interaction driven survival game with no consequences and no policing. You lose the ability to use a word, and no game like this should punish you for using bad language when it is full of murder, cannibalism, and unadulterated player interaction. 

 

Yes they are different games but both keep a record of chat ......they are at least the same in that respect. I never tried to directly compare them as games.

 

Im not talking about bad language....the game is 18+....swear all you want. Just don't use racial insults, you could say shit or fuck or damn it, but not N.....or C... or a plethora of OBVIOUSLY racist words. Like I said to the other guy there are ethical lines the devs have drawn ethical lines in the sand....features wont be included because of that. 

 

If they can make a system to stop us combat logging and that be supported. But a racism ban system be met with resistence is a sad day in my opinion. This is what the world is coming too....people more interested in a virtual avatar than how some words spoken can effect others IRL.....genuinely makes me sick.  

 

Anyways I leave this issue for debate, iv said what I wanted to say and defended my reasons for thinking that way. I hope the devs at least think about this issue as development goes on

[chokko 45]

 

 

Police it yourself, start your own server and white list it and kick people for it, I'm pretty sure those tools are going to be in if they aren't already.

 

yes - solution right there OP.

 

until then, let us all know what server you play on...i'd like to have a tea party with you, discuss world peace etc

[aasand 92]

 

 

 

Yes lets stop fighting hacking aswell....because ya know...it will be worked around like everything else.

 

And since I asked it you have expertly side stepped it like a political guru....because the answer we all know is nothing....you would loose nothing. But  it could help people who may be less thick skinned than you.

 

Hacking is a very different subject that actually breaks the game.

We have given you several reasons like impossible, expensive, time consuming, complicated, limits player interaction and basicly a waste of time. Let the admins set the rules for their servers. Everything else is already said.

Edited December 29, 2014 by aasand

[DeatHTaX 1217]

I think we can all agree policing voice chat is ridiculous, yes?

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

I've got a Hawaiian/Filipino gaming bro that plays with the Asian skin, and has been harassed several times by players before being called a gook/chink/slit eyed bastard. It sucks, and it sucks more that anyone has to deal with these assholes. But it's part of life I guess.

[Karmaterror 982]

Hacking is a very different subject that actually breaks the game.

We have given you several reasons like impossible, expensive, time consuming, complicated, limits player interaction and basicly a waste of time. Let the admins set the rules for their servers. Everything else is already said.

 

Another sidestep lol

 

The only one that sorta answers the Q is "limits player interaction"...remember the Q was...."What would you LOOSE from the dayz experience?" not "is it hard to do" or "why not".....simply...."what would you loose"....if you don't type racism....then nothing is the answer.

 

Seriously, the only way its going to limit people is if they go around hurling racial insults. If you don't do that you would have NOTHING to worry about. You could still do EVERYTHING you currently can in game. So whats the big deal in making I dunno 20 or so words in each language off limits? Why is that so bad for the game? Someone always has to take the first step....and say no to it.

 

OK so time consuming and expensive are good points for doing voice....but txt would be much simpler. At least that's a start. But as I mentioned before....they have a place to go and put where your guy is, what server, and they will unstick him.....that's gotta be hellish on time and expense. So when that's no longer needed (eg full release), why not divert those resourses into something like this?

 

Damit im back in again....I need to do a reply with no questions lol

[aasand 92]

Another sidestep lol

 

The only one that sorta answers the Q is "limits player interaction"...remember the Q was...."What would you LOOSE from the dayz experience?" not "is it hard to do" or "why not".....simply...."what would you loose"....if you don't type racism....then nothing is the answer.

 

Seriously, the only way its going to limit people is if they go around hurling racial insults. If you don't do that you would have NOTHING to worry about. You could still do EVERYTHING you currently can in game. So whats the big deal in making I dunno 20 or so words in each language off limits? Why is that so bad for the game? Someone always has to take the first step....and say no to it.

 

OK so time consuming and expensive are good points for doing voice....but txt would be much simpler. At least that's a start. But as I mentioned before....they have a place to go and put where your guy is, what server, and they will unstick him.....that's gotta be hellish on time and expense. So when that's no longer needed (eg full release), why not divert those resourses into something like this?

 

Damit im back in again....I need to do a reply with no questions lol

Nobody use text, and if they did they rarely stop to write racial comments. And voice is not going to happen. That's sci fi. And if somebody made it, it would be scary as hell in real life.

Devs doing check-ups on complaints? Thats even more insane. Sounds like a job for a few thousand employees right there. Full game release in 2030?

Edited December 29, 2014 by aasand

[Karmaterror 982]

Nobody use text, and if they did they rarely stop to write racial comments. And voice is not going to happen. That's sci fi.

 

So you would loose nothing from the experience....thanks :)

 

NO QUESTIONS IN THIS ONE....WOHOOOOO :D

[slippery gypsy 107]

Why? That's just stupid. It's a game where you slash people over the head with an axe with the intention of killing them and later on rape their corpse and feast on their meat. In what country does one get reported to the police for being a racist btw?

in Australia people of recent have had to face magistrates and receive criminal charges for racial abuse usually resulting in community service or heavy fines 

alot of it is hardly hate crimes it just gets so over sensationalized by the media that the offenders receive heavy charges ... almost every instance has been on public transport with a 3rd party filming the event and then  putting on social media ...then public out cry results in "lynching" the offender who always appears to be white 

the joys of a over policed nation that does not have freedom of speech protected under a bill of rights ...

[aasand 92]

So you would loose nothing from the experience....thanks :)

 

NO QUESTIONS IN THIS ONE....WOHOOOOO :D

Yes, I would like them to use whatever words they feel like. I would also like them to ever finish the game without doing stupid tasks meanwhile.

[Bororm 1156]

Another sidestep lol

 

The only one that sorta answers the Q is "limits player interaction"...remember the Q was...."What would you LOOSE from the dayz experience?" not "is it hard to do" or "why not".....simply...."what would you loose"....if you don't type racism....then nothing is the answer.

 

You lose your freedom.

 

Again, it's too much of a grey zone to outlaw words and you can't design a system smart enough to recognize intent.  So you've just taken away the freedom of people to use those words in perfectly acceptable situations/manners.

 

Beyond that, even people being assholes should have the freedom to do so as long as they aren't actually causing any physical harm to anyone else.  If I make my own website or write my own book or whatever, I'm free to say whatever the fuck I want.  On this forum certain terms aren't allowed, but that is because it's this particular forum's policy.  The internet should be the ultimate bastion of free speech and freedom of information.  If particular people want to police their own sections of it, fine.  But blanket systems are not the answer.

 

Considering the tag line of the game is "this is your story" and their entire premise for the project is providing a sandbox simulation of a post apocalypse where you can basically do whatever you want I don't see them implementing such an obtuse sort of system.  They've provided the tools for players to police themselves with white listing/private shards/muting.  You've already got everything you need.

 

What you're saying is you want to take people's freedom because you have thin skin and are too lazy to take action yourself.  Do it yourself.  That's the point of the game, you're responsible for yourself.

[Karmaterror 982]

You lose your freedom.

 

Again, it's too much of a grey zone to outlaw words and you can't design a system smart enough to recognize intent.  So you've just taken away the freedom of people to use those words in perfectly acceptable situations/manners.

 

Beyond that, even people being assholes should have the freedom to do so as long as they aren't actually causing any physical harm to anyone else.  If I make my own website or write my own book or whatever, I'm free to say whatever the fuck I want.  On this forum certain terms aren't allowed, but that is because it's this particular forum's policy.  The internet should be the ultimate bastion of free speech and freedom of information.  If particular people want to police their own sections of it, fine.  But blanket systems are not the answer.

 

Considering the tag line of the game is "this is your story" and their entire premise for the project is providing a sandbox simulation of a post apocalypse where you can basically do whatever you want I don't see them implementing such an obtuse sort of system.  They've provided the tools for players to police themselves with white listing/private shards/muting.  You've already got everything you need.

 

What you're saying is you want to take people's freedom because you have thin skin and are too lazy to take action yourself.  Do it yourself.  That's the point of the game, you're responsible for yourself.

 

 

 

Freedom of speech is the political right to communicate one's opinions and ideas using one's body and property to anyone who is willing to receive them. The term freedom of expression is sometimes used synonymously, but includes any act of seeking, receiving and imparting information or ideas, regardless of the medium used.

Every government restricts speech to some degree. Common limitations on speech relate to: libel, slander, obscenity, pornography, sedition, hate speech, incitement, fighting words, classified information, copyright violation, trade secrets, non-disclosure agreements, right to privacy, right to be forgotten, public security, public order, public nuisance, and campaign finance reform. Whether these limitations can be justified under the harm principle depends upon whether influencing a third party's opinions or actions adversely to the second party constitutes such harm or not.

The term "offense principle" is also used^[1] to expand the range of free speech limitations to prohibit forms of expression where they are considered offensive to society, special interest groups or individuals. For example, freedom of speech is limited in many jurisdictions to widely differing degrees by religious legal systems, religious offense or incitement to ethnic or racial hatred laws.

 

 

Freedom is something that to enjoy....you must abide by rules....break them and you will have your freedoms removed.

 

Freedom of speech is not a blanket pardon to say whatever you want. Where it effects others there welfare MUST be taken into account. Both the harm and offence principle come into play when dealing with racism. These rules are there to protect the weak and should be upheld wherever possible. Saying you cannot hurl racial insults is in no way limiting your freedom of speech as it can directly and indirectly effect others.

 

I will for sure be starting a private hive later down the line. And I will be kicking and banning for racism....no warnings. What about all the other servers though, I cant do anything there. Im not lazy and im not thin skinned. But iv had people come to me in tears on steam because of racism(most recently in dayz)......that's the real world effects it can cause.....and that's mild compared to what you can read about online due to racism in games.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Karmaterror

[rybec 339]

PS you can spend a night in the cells in the UK for using racial slurs....

A lot of our countries have free speech.

[Karmaterror 982]

A lot of our countries have free speech.

 

Read above^^

Every gov restricts "Free Speech"

[DeatHTaX 1217]

Freedom of speech is the political right to communicate one's opinions and ideas using one's body and property to anyone who is willing to receive them. The term freedom of expression is sometimes used synonymously, but includes any act of seeking, receiving and imparting information or ideas, regardless of the medium used.

Every government restricts speech to some degree. Common limitations on speech relate to: libel, slander, obscenity, pornography, sedition, hate speech, incitement, fighting words, classified information, copyright violation, trade secrets, non-disclosure agreements, right to privacy, right to be forgotten, public security, public order, public nuisance, and campaign finance reform. Whether these limitations can be justified under the harm principle depends upon whether influencing a third party's opinions or actions adversely to the second party constitutes such harm or not.

The term "offense principle" is also used^[1] to expand the range of free speech limitations to prohibit forms of expression where they are considered offensive to society, special interest groups or individuals. For example, freedom of speech is limited in many jurisdictions to widely differing degrees by religious legal systems, religious offense or incitement to ethnic or racial hatred laws.

 

 

Freedom is something that to enjoy....you must abide by rules....break them and you will have your freedoms removed.

 

Freedom of speech is not a blanket pardon to say whatever you want. Where it effects others there welfare MUST be taken into account. Both the harm and offence principle come into play when dealing with racism. These rules are there to protect the weak and should be upheld wherever possible. Saying you cannot hurl racial insults is in no way limiting your freedom of speech as it can directly and indirectly effect others.

 

I will for sure be starting a private hive later down the line. And I will be kicking and banning for racism....no warnings. What about all the other servers though, I cant do anything there. Im not lazy and im not thin skinned. But iv had people come to me in tears on steam because of racism(most recently in dayz)......that's the real world effects it can cause.....and that's mild compared to what you can read about online due to racism in games.

 

Dude I think you're completely misunderstood as to what Freedom of speech is. There is no law that bans words. You can say certain things not bound by penalty of law. People being racist is not breaking any laws. The only reason there are laws against certain things is due to other peoples' safety, such as yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded theatre. And the people of our government have CONSENTED to giving up these rights because they know that it is due to public and individual safety.

 

And cool! kick and ban for racism on your own server! Because those are your rules and people need to abide by them, but you can't do this whole thought police thing. And protect the weak? Dude, being a victim of racist a-holes doesn't make you "weak" lol. You make it sound like someone being racist to another person is literally causing them physical harm. 

 

I think you're taking this whole discussion a bit too far, personally

Edited December 29, 2014 by DeatHTaX

[rybec 339]

Freedom of speech is not a blanket pardon to say whatever you want. Where it effects others there welfare MUST be taken into account. Both the harm and offence principle come into play when dealing with racism. These rules are there to protect the weak and should be upheld wherever possible. Saying you cannot hurl racial insults is in no way limiting your freedom of speech as it can directly and indirectly effect others.

Now, when enforcing things that are more related to "Muh feelings" there is no equal treatment to enforcing this. Anyone can deny it all they want, as a white male I guarantee you if I said something intentionally offensive it would have me struck down before I could take another breath. Coming from most other than a white male and you have quite a bit of leeway.

 

That said, it's quite a controversial topic, but in the end how do you think you'll enforce it since you say you'll be running your own server? What deity powers do you think you'll get as an admin that will let you see who said what?

[Bororm 1156]

Freedom of speech is the political right to communicate one's opinions and ideas using one's body and property to anyone who is willing to receive them. The term freedom of expression is sometimes used synonymously, but includes any act of seeking, receiving and imparting information or ideas, regardless of the medium used.

Every government restricts speech to some degree. Common limitations on speech relate to: libel, slander, obscenity, pornography, sedition, hate speech, incitement, fighting words, classified information, copyright violation, trade secrets, non-disclosure agreements, right to privacy, right to be forgotten, public security, public order, public nuisance, and campaign finance reform. Whether these limitations can be justified under the harm principle depends upon whether influencing a third party's opinions or actions adversely to the second party constitutes such harm or not.

The term "offense principle" is also used^[1] to expand the range of free speech limitations to prohibit forms of expression where they are considered offensive to society, special interest groups or individuals. For example, freedom of speech is limited in many jurisdictions to widely differing degrees by religious legal systems, religious offense or incitement to ethnic or racial hatred laws.

Racism can indirectly  lead to physical harm. Either self harm by the victim, or violence brought on by comments made. Words have power and no one can ignore that. Free speech is far too often cited, and im sure there is a clause in

 

Freedom is something that to enjoy....you must abide by rules....break them and you will have your freedoms removed.

 

Freedom of speech is not a blanket pardon to say whatever you want. Where it effects others there welfare MUST be taken into account. Both the harm and offence principle come into play when dealing with racism. These rules are there to protect the weak and should be upheld wherever possible. Saying you cannot hurl racial insults is in no way limiting your freedom of speech as it can directly and indirectly effect others.

 

I will for sure be starting a private hive later down the line. And I will be kicking and banning for racism....no warnings. What about all the other servers though, I cant do anything there. Im not lazy and im not thin skinned. But iv had people come to me in tears on steam because of racism(most recently in dayz)......that's the real world effects it can cause.....and that's mild compared to what you can read about online due to racism in games.

 

Your friends have thin skin too then.  They need to take responsibility for themselves not advocate for systems to dictate how other people should behave.  They can go offline, they can mute people, they can choose to ignore it, they can laugh it off, whatever.  There's a multitude of options they have, because at the end of the day these interactions are not forced on them.  They need to realize they are willingly putting themselves in this position.

 

 

 

 

Freedom is something that to enjoy....you must abide by rules....break them and you will have your freedoms removed.

Rules are actually by definition the opposite of freedom.

 

You're saying "follow the rules to be protected, to enjoy the 'freedom' you're allowed."  I say real life has enough rules.  In a video game, I want ultimate freedom.  I want to be able to do what I want, and consequently other people will do what they want and that won't always coincide.  But I want that freedom and I'm willing to take responsibility for myself, to protect myself, instead of relying on a system to do it for me.  With the knowledge that those other people have to do the same.  If we can't have actual freedom in a video game, then where else are we ever going to get it?  Why would you want to take that away, when it's completely voluntary to participate in?

Edited December 29, 2014 by Bororm

[Jesus Christ The Goblin 71]

Mere words can not and will not hurt me.
I would be more upset if someone shot my dayz character than if someone followed me around saying insults of any kind (Including how much my mother costs or racism).

If you don't like what someone says on dayz you are free to try and kill them.


When I join a server that has strict policies on what people say, I quit that server and join another one.
Why? Because I don't want to be on a server filled with sensitive little babies, I want to be on a server where anything goes, Where I have no idea what will happen next and nothing can be predicted.
If my only choice is to play on those servers then I will find another game where children aren't allowed because my fun is destroyed when everyone in dayz uses manners. In fact racism adds to my gaming experience, It makes it feel real because racists are everywhere in the real world.


Why don't you do the opposite of me and join a server which bans people for foul language?
If you did that then you wouldn't encounter racism.
In fact you could have fun, I could have fun, Everyone else could have fun and the entire issue disappears.


I hope the devs do absolutely nothing because this is an issue each individual server should deal with since each server (In general) is run by different admin who believe different things are acceptable or unacceptable.

Having a global list of morals on dayz is almost as appealing as eating a cactus.

 

[GrappleX 354]

Sticks and stones right OP?

[Karmaterror 982]

You know what.....I can only assume MOST you guys have never had to console a loved one or friend who has  been the victim of racist remarks. Some of the horse shit....."They should take resposability for themselves".....fuck off! They don't know its going to happen....it just does....by the time they log the damage is done......real damage.

 

But hey fuck them right....who cares what pain it can cause, they should all grow thicker skin. As long as it dosent bother YOU fuck the rest who it does.....Because stopping people saying N****r or C**n would so drastically change your gameplay, and infringe so badly on your freedoms......BULL....SHIT!

 

Step into a grown up world for 1 second....where we make concessions like this to ensure the majority of people are not caused discomfort or pain. 

 

Yes im getting angry now as this does strike a nerve for me from personal experience, and I wanted to show a certain someone that most aren't like that and would jump at the chance to be rid of it....guess I was wrong.