realism compensation

[itze1337 1]

Hey there,

I've been playing DayZ for quite a while now.

Some times just solo and some times I meet some friends and we play together with like 3 oder 4 Guys or Girl(s).

I spent also some time on thinking about the realism...what is realistic and where is the border where you cant put realism into bits and bytes.

At the beginning you have to survive as long as you have a knife, hatchet ant some matches and for luxury purposes a refillable water bottle. From there on you can supply yourself with the general needs and have the time to wait and observer places and spots in order to time your looting well and not to get overrun from Zeds or get shot by some bandits.

So far...

Later you may get some serious weapons like a AK, M16 or even a sniper. So what do you want with that? Killing Zeds to get anywhere? No, that sucks...most Zeds hear the noise, as nearby players will. You agro some Zeds you have to shoot more and more, wasting ammo and may get into serious trouble.

So a firearm is always the last thing I may use in order to SURVIVE!

So in my eyes one of the most valuable weapon is the crossbow in order to kill silently, rearm the bolt and finding plenty of additional bolts. Well, SD Weapons are good as well, but the ammo is sadly too rare.

So let's get to the most pain in the ass topic...PVP

I read a lot of posts here where some guys are like "pvp is so annoying and it sucks and the Bandits suck" and others are like "Grow yourself some balls, it's realistic, people hunting other people for their goods".

A veary good reply I read about pvp penalties was like "where is the realism when you kill someone and as penalty you get hungry or thirsty faster or you break your leg or something else."

So think about the following for just some seconds...

If its apocalypse and you have to survive, you shoot some man or woman you see to get their food? Be realistic and serious about it...if you do so, you eat the food you get off their dead and bloody bodies after you droped them with your MP5...at night you go to your tent and sleep well and the next day everything is fine, because you have food and coke and some bandages and a watch from them...seriously? Never! What do you thing why soldiers need psychiatrists after they have been in some shooting situation where they killed someone... what do you really think would happen if you shoot a human...not for revenge, not for defending yourself...only because he might have something you want?!

You WILL get your "PENALTY" ... you may not sleep for nights and probably you someday just might shoot yourself in the head because you can't take it anymore.

But with DayZ you won't get that penalty because all you do is moving pixels on a computer screen...you just modify bits and bytes which results in different light signals on your screen.

So if you want that realistic its just about transferring the realistic penalty into a simulation where you never get mindfucked for real...quite impossible.

If you have read so far, you may get what I am concerned about. I think it is far from realism that people shoot other people in order to survive. Humans are pack animals. The do not want to be alone. The are searching for company. And this given instinct will not disappear in some sort of apocalypse. Seriously, it will not happen.

So I think it will be a way much more valuable and interesting game about realistic survival horror if there will be some penalty for players that did not get the idea and think its some alteration ob Call of Duty or Counter Strike oder Battlefield. Because its fu**ing not that. Its a whole other genre, its no FPS and you will not get your Service Star for shooting players with your AKS or M16.

So I think it would be a good idea to transfer some realistic penalties into some "Computer Game" ones.

Greetz

itze

[Aeoneth 163]

I think it would be interesting (but probably won't be implemented) if after shooting a certain number of people / your humanity gets too low, you begin to see ghost players. Not like whispy figures or anything like that. But rather a client side AI player that runs around and shoots things. A bandit may try and shoot him and "dissipate" the illusion, but in doing so wasting ammo and alerting everyone nearby to their location.

[Galatica 0]

People are playing this game alone to start off with. Regardless of how realistic this is meant to be, its only a game and so based just off that people act in extremely different ways. I've played this game for little under a week and already I have learnt that without friends, people I personally know playing the game, I can trust no one. That in itself is realism. If I was alone in a zombie-filled world, I wouldn't trust people I knew for a mere 20 minutes. I've got gear they want and need, to continue on their life, and vice versa for me.

Even if you continue to pile on the penalties, there will always be banditry in this game. You need to adapt to that and learn to trust only those you know you can trust.

It sounds like someone has been watching too many movies or heard too many stories about people in extreme situations killing another human being. Not everyone has the same reaction to it.

You seem to be complaining rather than actually stating your suggestion to improve this mod. Yes, there need to be many improvements made to this modification. You do mention penalties, but what exactly does that entail?

[-ZomB- S-Brownies 0]

I know what you're trying to get at, but let me say somethings.

I really don't know what you mean by "At the beginning you have to survive as long as you have a knife, hatchet ant some matches and for luxury purposes a refillable water bottle" I'm assuming you want this inventory set up at spawn rather than the painkillers and bandages? It would make sense that you would have these things but then again you kind take away that need to gather those items.

Guns, Grenades, and Glory-Guns. I can see why a firearm may NOT be a likely choice but it is better to rely on than the shitty crossbow. Yes you can hear the firearm as another player or get zombies drawn to you but you also have more protection. What happens when you stumble across a man with a shotgun when you're looting something and he is looking to kill you? In that case, you're fucked. The SD weapons don't have rare ammo spawns, just uncommon. You can easily find ammo for the M4A1 CCO SD. Run around for helicopter crash sites, find an ammo box, you instantly have 10 or more.

PvP- You believe that we, should have a penalty, for killing another. What if my guy is a psycopath in real life and I have no feelings of remorse or regret? You'd have to factor in emotional senses into a game in order to put punishment on killing one another.

For you saying that humans are pack animals well I actually like to be alone IRL. It's not bad, and yes a serious apacolypse like this could tear at and break down our natural instincts, it's not immpossible and it will happen eventually.

You sound like another one of those people that don't like PvP but want to make it so you can't PvP without making it insanely difficult for Pkers to survive. In other words you want to promote your gameplay and punish other gamestyles. Yes this isn't Call of Duty, Battlefield, or any FPS but in reality somebody could kill you and feel no remorse or regret. I admit I kill people, it brings another thrill to the game. I don't want this game to be shitting rainbows every 3 seconds, it's the zombie apacolypse, I'd kill you in one, and I wouldn't care. What I'm getting at is that in order to make you happy, you make me, and others unhappy because you either can't take PvP and you prance through the fields puking butterflies saying "FRIENDLY" when somebody shoots at you or you are making this so call "realistic" suggestion for another reason. In my mind, it's not realistic at all, do you see terrorists crying and going to psychiatrists for help because they killed 1 or maybe well over 10 or 20 people? No, you don't and in the game/real zombie apacolypse, I could easily be one of those sick fucks that have no feelings whatsoever.

[Zwans 1]

f its apocalypse and you have to survive' date=' you shoot some man or woman you see to get their food? Be realistic and serious about it...if you do so, you eat the food you get off their dead and bloody bodies after you droped them with your MP5...at night you go to your tent and sleep well and the next day everything is fine, because you have food and coke and some bandages and a watch from them...seriously? Never! What do you thing why soldiers need psychiatrists after they have been in some shooting situation where they killed someone... what do you really think would happen if you shoot a human...not for revenge, not for defending yourself...only because he might have something you want?!

You WILL get your "PENALTY" ... you may not sleep for nights and probably you someday just might shoot yourself in the head because you can't take it anymore.

But with DayZ you won't get that penalty because all you do is moving pixels on a computer screen...you just modify bits and bytes which results in different light signals on your screen.

So if you want that realistic its just about transferring the realistic penalty into a simulation where you never get mindfucked for real...quite impossible.

[/quote']

FALSE, some people might be as 'weak' (in relation to being able to stand to kill someone) as you think. But history has tought us most will not. Almost all the soldier see and do horrible things, but just a minority is ah shocked as you say.

People will do horrible things to eachother and if i means living, surviving, haveing food for their family that night, they will rationalize and defend it to themselfs untill they can imagine no other outcome then them killing the other guy.

If what you say was true, what do you say about the numerous kinds of rape and abuse that still thrive in our modern society? People locking up women and kids, abusing them years on end, torture, people like priests, abusing their power over countless others to satisfy their own lust; These monsters of people live just fine, and are often even suprised at the disgust of other people about their crimes. Think warcriminals of 40 years ago that sit smiling in the courthouse, still believing what they did was right. Think middle eastern Dictators that gass-bomb villages the same day they claim to be peacefull in the united nations. Think Rwanda, Cambodja, ....

It's nice that you are a nice, friendly guy. But most people are not, most people wear only a thin mask of niceness. Don't be naive. This counts for DayZ as well as real life.

Z

[Smegskull 3]

adding a penalty element to the game like getting stressed might be good but is hard to simulate. It would probably be better to just say reduce your score for every person you harm and increase it with every person you help, as the result of your game is your score it would encourage good behaviour in those trying to do well and have no impact on those who couldn't care less which is a fair imitation of a persons real psyche.

[Zwans 1]

adding a penalty element to the game like getting stressed might be good but is hard to simulate. It would probably be better to just say reduce your score for every person you harm and increase it with every person you help' date=' as the result of your game is your score it would encourage good behaviour in those trying to do well and have no impact on those who couldn't care less which is a fair imitation of a persons real psyche.

[/quote']

there's a score in this game? Da fuq. Who cares about that...

[itze1337 1]

So I just started a moral discussion about good peaople and bad peaople, strong and weak, psychos and carebears...

Thats awesome.

I will not give any suggestions for the penalty system. I just wanted that kind of discussion here. The only thing I wanted is that many players post what they think about it so the game devs can get a closer look at things and how other players really feel about the humanity aspect of the game.

I am also not yet sure about the sense of penalty, but I think some kind of consequence it should have when you kill a player, not just the success of getting his loot.

This game goes much over consequences, like the sound of your weapon which can attrect people to your position. Or the consequence of staying out in the rain for too long. So I am assuming there should be some kind of consequence for killing people.

[Eiskrem-Kaiser 54]

Forget it, simulating psychological effects in a game like this would suck.

This game should, and I'm sure, it could, use the psyche of the player in order to get him to choose not to kill players, unless he has to.

This game already manages to provoke emotions in the players. I came to this game because of the stories they told in forums and such. Thoses stories are quite often quite emotional. Fear, anger, surprise, happiness. Just watch a random Let's Play of someone playing for the first few times. It's funny and interesting.

I also remember the first time I killed someone ingame. It didn't make me go mad, no, but it did provoke some thinking on my part. Something I don't expect from computer games. And you don't get a game that does that all too often. The last one that really did something to me, was Mass Effect. The choices you have to make there, are really hard. Because you actually like the ficticious characters.

So, what I mean with all this brabbling is the following. This game should aim towards creating a disincentive that is not coded, but lies somewhat out of the game. Don't code penalties for certain actions a player takes. Give him more to consider before killing someone else. Maybe more customization could help already. If it's not the same player model you shoot, but someone who looks like an individual person, this might already deterr some players from killing them. Or make surviving harder, so that you just can't afford to shoot everyone you see.

These would be more indirect disincentives. Unlike some shaky screen if you kill someone, that represents your psychological state. That would break all immersion. And it wouldn't be realistic either. Not everyone deals with death the same way.

The bandit skin wasn't all too bad, I have to say in hindsight. It got you thinking about killing someone, because a bandit skin meant getting shot on sight, whereas as a survivor, your chances were much better.

But it is more of a coded and direct disincentive. But your suggestion is much worse in that regard. I would strongly dislike a feature like this.

[Osiris1 0]

Or everyone could just stop trying to press their own playstyle on others in a sandbox environment meant to be versatile and suited for any other playstyle, and, more importantly, stop playing a survival game if they are not willing to accept the inevitability of conflict.

Humans are not pack animals. At least, their "desire to be in packs" does not override their survival instinct. If a human has to, they will kill for food. So if you're going to use genetics as a reason to bring realism to a zombie apocalypse (which is, by nature, not realistic), you're going to have a hard time convincing people that humans will, given only their instinct, die before killing another animal for food.

If cavemen followed this logic, we either wouldn't have survived, or we'd have severe vitamin deficiencies from only eating plants.

Back on topic, let me play my game the way I want to, and stop trying to prevent that because of some sense of superiority or stubborn refusal to accept that this game is not meant to be tailored to you.

[Guest]

not every soldier gets affected by killing , its a rare occurrence and therefore doesn't really need represented in game everytime somebody is killed.