Do you think the LRS will be removed from Mosin when...

[hombrecz 832]

People do mount off-the-shelf scopes to Mosin models all the time, though. I would expect that to be common in a region where Mosins have been laying around for over a century.

 

 

I think that what you say would apply more to western countries, where people are richer and can afford expensive hunting optics and rails and stuff needed to fit that on Mosin.

Chernarus looks rather poor hence I think Mosin with just PU would make a lot more sense. Lot more than Mosin with custom bipod, railing and 1000 USD optics.

[Twixxer 159]

Do you think the Long Range Scope will be removed as a functioning scope on the rifle once a real more-modern rifle that actually uses it gets implemented to the game?

 

 

Personally the way I see it is that the only reason the LRS is on the mosin is for testing purposes until another rifle comes out that uses it. 

 

Hopefully once another "sniper" gun comes out that uses it, the scope will no longer be used on the mosin. 

 

1. It looks stupid and ugly on the mosin.

 

2. It's unrealistic on the Mosin and the scope just completely just took a shit on where the bolt lever is located.

Lol, how is a scope on Mosin unrealistic if Russians used scoped Mosins in WW2?

[irishroy 1347]

I think it would make perfect sense to remove the LRS from the Mosin (for both gameplay & "realism" purposes), & then add the LRS to the Blaze rifle. 

 

 

THAT was my thought behind this, too.

 

Switching the scopes would balance the game even more than leaving the situation alone like this right now.

 

EDIT: Mosin&B95 have the same dispersion, 0.001. Overall, many weapony have the same dispersion and are more accurate now. M4, AKM, AK101, Ruger10/22 and SKS have 0.0015

Edited August 22, 2014 by irishroy

[grindstone50k 208]

I think that what you say would apply more to western countries, where people are richer and can afford expensive hunting optics and rails and stuff needed to fit that on Mosin.

Chernarus looks rather poor hence I think Mosin with just PU would make a lot more sense. Lot more than Mosin with custom bipod, railing and 1000 USD optics.

Scopes aren't expensive. Especially the Russian-made stuff. Also, anyone with a few tools can drill and tap a couple holes in the receiver and put in a few $10 scope rings.

 

But I'll will grant I don't know if East Euro countries with large stockpiles of Mosins do this or not. But the theroy remains that a poor-mans scope mount isn't all that unlikely.

[Etherious 907]

 

 

 

This is precisely our current plan for the same reasons you just stated.

 

The blase has something like divots in its barrel which allows for attachment of a saddle mount - a type of mount which cannot be used on any other of our guns. That means the only way to satisfy the 'realism' junkies is to create a specific Blaze scope which can't be used on any other weapon.  Alternatively we introduce a generic 'scope' and then make people find the exact mount they need to attach to a given rifle and craft them together, which is a lot more work involving both the art and design team and has the end result of making it easier for there to be more leet snip0rs killing other players at long range - something we're not interested in encouraging at the moment.  

Its not something we'll permanently ignore - its just not a high priority right now.

 

He only has ONE valid point, the other points are just opinions about looks. I mean shit, if were gonna be removing stuff because they look ugly then why not remove the PM 73 RAK, Designer Glasses, Construction Hats, Pilot Helmets, Amphibia S, Walther P38, etc...I mean they look ugly....lol. I see it as a step backwards, we should be going towards more variety which is a step forward.

[gibonez 3633]

He only has ONE valid point, the other points are just opinions about looks. I mean shit, if were gonna be removing stuff because they look ugly then why not remove the PM 73 RAK, Designer Glasses, Construction Hats, Pilot Helmets, Amphibia S, Walther P38, etc...I mean they look ugly....lol. I see it as a step backwards, we should be going towards more variety which is a step forward.

 

Modularity for the sake of modularity is never a good thing. Would you also like m203s to be duck tapped to mosins ?

 

The accesory system is great and has potential but going for a max versatility approach to all of the attachments is not a good thing.

[Katana67 2907]

This is precisely our current plan for the same reasons you just stated.

 

The blase has something like divots in its barrel which allows for attachment of a saddle mount - a type of mount which cannot be used on any other of our guns. That means the only way to satisfy the 'realism' junkies is to create a specific Blaze scope which can't be used on any other weapon.  Alternatively we introduce a generic 'scope' and then make people find the exact mount they need to attach to a given rifle and craft them together, which is a lot more work involving both the art and design team and has the end result of making it easier for there to be more leet snip0rs killing other players at long range - something we're not interested in encouraging at the moment.  

Its not something we'll permanently ignore - its just not a high priority right now.

 

Neat! Glad to hear it. What's the status of the bolt-handle? Will it remain turned down, will it become the longer bolt handle as is on the sniper variant? Not a big deal for me, just curious if there's any changes you've got in mind.

 

While I have zero issue with the Mosin being able to use the LRS from a "realistic" perspective, as it can be done in reality (with far less effort than most would have us believe [see clamp rail mounts, cinch rail mounts, and scout mounts]) and "realism" is never really a good reason in and of itself for doing anything, I think this is a good step from a pragmatic standpoint.

 

The Mosin is currently the only sniper rifle in the game, yet it's ostensibly a relatively common rifle. And it can mount the (current) highest magnification optic in the game.

 

If I may, I would suggest having a variety of "generic" scopes with specific purposes in an overall hierarchy. And, bear in mind, talking about scopes on sniper rifles/hunting rifles, not necessarily ACOGs and the like (even though there's significant overlap).

 

1. General Purpose Scope (i.e. the PU)

- 3-4x (range of potential magnification, not variable)

- Able to be used on common "civilian" weapons

 

2. Hunting Scope

- 6-8x (range of potential magnification, not variable)

- Able to be used on specific "hunting" rifles (like the B95, CR 527, etc.)

 

3. Sniper Rifle Scope

- 8x-10x (range of potential magnification, not variable)

- Able to be used on most railed weapons and sniper rifles

 

4. Variable Magnification Scope

- 12-20x

- Able to be used only on high-end sniper rifles

 

This is just a rough hierarchy, and I can see several flaws in it as I think it over. But you get the gist of how "generic" scopes could be approached. However, I think there is something to be said for a divide between weapon-specific, and, generic attachments. So you could have some weapons only able to mount weapon-specific attachments (but have those attachments be more common overall) and have other weapons have the advantage of being able to mount "generic" attachments (i.e. 1913-compatible attachments) at the cost of increased weapon rarity, increased attachment rarity, or a requirement to have an additional attachment (i.e. a RIS system) to attach generic attachments.

 

Yet another of my hierarchies...

 

1. Common Weapons

- 0-1 types of weapon-specific optics (or attachments) available

 

2. Uncommon Weapons

- 1-2 types of weapon-specific optics available

 

3. Rare weapons

- 3-4 types of generic optics available, but require the additional looting of a RIS system to mount said attachments/optics

 

4. Hyper-rare and/or regulated weapons

- 3-4 types of generic optics available, weapon innately capable of mounting generic attachments/optics without the need for a separately looted rail system

 

That and we certainly could use a traditional mil-dot scope one of these days.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Katana67

[rybec 339]

Why cripple the Mosin even more by removing LRS from it.

There's a problem in your logic. We shouldn't have weapons changed for balance purposes.

For a competitive game balance is a good thing, you shouldn't say  "Oh, X weapon needs buffs or nerfs" for this game. Just let things perform how they should. Excluding goofy attachments for an old rifle without specifically making a mount sounds like a great idea.

[Katana67 2907]

There's a problem in your logic. We shouldn't have weapons changed for balance purposes.

For a competitive game balance is a good thing, you shouldn't say  "Oh, X weapon needs buffs or nerfs" for this game. Just let things perform how they should. Excluding goofy attachments for an old rifle without specifically making a mount sounds like a great idea.

 

Well, it's not really an issue of logic when you follow it up with "We shouldn't," which would make it an issue of opinion or subjective prudence.

 

While I dislike the approach of "nerfs/buffs," there are certain things which require balance. Doesn't have to affect the weapon's performance, but there will always be balance considerations when the developers are trying to craft an experience. So the "put stuff in and let the chips fall where they may" method doesn't really lend to that approach. I don't think I'd want M240's spawning in residential homes with any semblance of regularity, so, they'll always have to apply some level of balance to things.

 

I argue that "balance" should mainly be articulated through rarity, and secondarily, through considering innate capability (i.e. what a given weapon archetype and/or attachment combination allow the player to do). Take the Mosin, having it be a long-range sniper rifle through using the LRS is a capability that it would otherwise not have. So, when you make something common, with that capability, it shifts the commonality of that combination (i.e. a Mosin with an LRS, and therefore a long-range sniper rifle) into areas in which the developers do not want it to be.

 

Most games attempt to balance weapons through tweaking artificial "spread" values, damage values, and the like. While that certainly could be/should be/is being done with weapons in DayZ, I doubt it will become the norm once the weapons are where they need to be.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Katana67

[rybec 339]

Well, it's not really an issue of logic when you follow it up with "We shouldn't," which would make it an issue of opinion or subjective prudence.

 

While I dislike the approach of "nerfs/buffs," there are certain things which require balance. Doesn't have to affect the weapon's performance, but there will always be balance considerations when the developers are trying to craft an experience. So the "put stuff in and let the chips fall where they may" method doesn't really lend to that approach. I don't think I'd want M240's spawning in residential homes with any semblance of regularity, so, they'll always have to apply some level of balance to things.

I say "shouldn't" because it's not up to me. I'm only a suggestion. People are allowed their own opinions opposing mine even if they're going to be wrong :3

 

The balance I was talking about was entirely about weapon performance, not location or rarity.

I'm saying there shouldn't (there's my suggestion again) be very many patch notes saying "____ rifle deviation changed from X to X" for the sole purpose of fixing complaining on the forums that something is "too good". I'd like things to shoot where they're supposed to, not have values tweaked to make some rifle have numbers changed to make it shoot off course of where you're aiming.

[Etherious 907]

Modularity for the sake of modularity is never a good thing. Would you also like m203s to be duck tapped to mosins ?

 

The accesory system is great and has potential but going for a max versatility approach to all of the attachments is not a good thing.

That seems like a interesting idea....hmmm. *Writes it down*

 

Everybody keeps saying realism....and max modularity is realistic. :P You guys need to make up your damn minds. xD

[Katana67 2907]

The balance I was talking about was entirely about weapon performance, not location or rarity.

I'm saying there shouldn't (there's my suggestion again) be very many patch notes saying "____ rifle deviation changed from X to X" for the sole purpose of fixing complaining on the forums that something is "too good". I'd like things to shoot where they're supposed to, not have values tweaked to make some rifle have numbers changed to make it shoot off course of where you're aiming.

 

I agree! Things shouldn't be nerfed/buffed unnecessarily solely to appease people. I don't like that approach to balance.

 

However, and I suspect you already understand this and perhaps agree with it, balance can be applied in multiple areas.

 

To me, balance is about justifying an advantageous item/weapon/combination. Not lessening the advantage altogether.

 

Which is why things like the AS50 and L85A2 TWS were removed from the mod, because the advantage they offered was not appropriately justified by any mitigating factors (i.e. weapon rarity, ammunition rarity, magazine rarity, maintenance requirements, etc.)

Edited August 22, 2014 by Katana67

[rybec 339]

I agree! Things shouldn't be nerfed/buffed unnecessarily solely to appease people. I don't like that approach to balance.

 

However, and I suspect you already understand this and perhaps agree with it, balance can be applied in multiple areas.

 

To me, balance is about justifying an advantageous item/weapon/combination. Not lessening the advantage altogether.

I like the idea of weapons having different uses even though they all do the same thing.

Having the mosin only able to mount a PU would still leave it viable for shooting fairly long distances (I can shoot accurate enough with irons only with my mosin out of game anyways) without retaining the ability to mount the highest magnification optics available.

Save those roles for newer models of rifles that are intended to use those optics, not allow a rifle that is over a hundred years old to use them for the sake of "just because".

[Katana67 2907]

I like the idea of weapons having different uses even though they all do the same thing.

Having the mosin only able to mount a PU would still leave it viable for shooting fairly long distances (I can shoot accurate enough with irons only with my mosin out of game anyways) without retaining the ability to mount the highest magnification optics available.

Save those roles for newer models of rifles that are intended to use those optics, not allow a rifle that is over a hundred years old to use them for the sake of "just because".

 

Agreed. A big thing that needs to happen, though, is that they need to standardize the zoom/magnification of optics to be independent of FOV settings.

[hellcat420 212]

not sure how its unrealistic since you can put about any scope you want to on a mosin in the real world.

[mattr19 24]

If they were going to take away the LRS they wouldn't have added the ghillie wrap. 

[gibonez 3633]

not sure how its unrealistic since you can put about any scope you want to on a mosin in the real world.

 

It is a matter of availability or how likely it would be to find one of these specialized mounts and also finding a mosin that has been drilled and tapped for optics.

 

Best way I would go about doing this is out of all of the millions of mosins manufactured how many are realistically going to be able to be found in a random house in Chenarus and have the ability to take modern optics and not only that how likely are you to find the mount ?

 

When looked from this angle it really makes no sense for the mosin to take the LRS or even the pu really.

[Katana67 2907]

If they were going to take away the LRS they wouldn't have added the ghillie wrap. 

 

Chris Torchia, just said, in this thread... that they will be taking it away.

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/208692-do-you-think-the-lrs-will-be-removed-from-mosin-when/?p=2090576

 

The wrap/grass wrap has nothing to do with the LRS. It can be used with a PU scope.

[Katana67 2907]

not sure how its unrealistic since you can put about any scope you want to on a mosin in the real world.

 

They'll probably come at you with the gradual spiraling decay away from the original language.

 

It evolves from "it's not realistic," when that's proven false...

 

It moves to "it's not likely," and when that's highlighted as an argument surrounding rarity (not the mere possibility of X happening), or, is unsupported by any actual statistical/empirical evidence...

 

It then devolves further to "it doesn't fit the setting," and when that's shown to be either false, or utterly subjective without any real pragmatism concerning the game...

 

It finally moves to the non-argument of "it doesn't feel right."

 

EDIT - I was not dissapointed! :D

Edited August 22, 2014 by Katana67

[mattr19 24]

Chris Torchia, just said, in this thread... that they will be taking it away.

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/208692-do-you-think-the-lrs-will-be-removed-from-mosin-when/?p=2090576

 

The wrap/grass wrap has nothing to do with the LRS. It can be used with a PU scope.

 

Well, I guess I was wrong. Thanks.

[hellcat420 212]

It is a matter of availability or how likely it would be to find one of these specialized mounts and also finding a mosin that has been drilled and tapped for optics.

 

Best way I would go about doing this is out of all of the millions of mosins manufactured how many are realistically going to be able to be found in a random house in Chenarus and have the ability to take modern optics and not only that how likely are you to find the mount ?

 

When looked from this angle it really makes no sense for the mosin to take the LRS or even the pu really.

there are rails that are readily available for old mosins. hell there are all kinds of readily available modern accessories for those things. drilling and tapping is a very simple thing to do, all you need to know is how to use a drill and a ruler. its easier than changing the tire on a car. mosins do not require any special mounts for modern optics.

 

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/aim-sports-mosin-nagant-kit?a=916756 it took me 35 seconds to find this accessory kit for a mosin.

Edited August 23, 2014 by hellcat420

[gibonez 3633]

there are rails that are readily available for old mosins. hell there are all kinds of readily available modern accessories for those things. drilling and tapping is a very simple thing to do, all you need to know is how to use a drill and a ruler. its easier than changing the tire on a car. mosins do not require any special mounts for modern optics.

 

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/aim-sports-mosin-nagant-kit?a=916756 it took me 35 seconds to find this accessory kit for a mosin.

 

Yes online with a world economy and the internet.

 

However although I can't really say with certainty how likely it would be I would bet that it would be nearly impossible to find such a mount for a mosin in a remote eastern region like Chenarus once the world has ended due to a zombie plague

 

As for it being easy to mount I disagree I have been shooting guns and owned guns since I was a kid but I will not do any gunsmithing on my guns. .

[Borges (DayZ) 40]

Edit- didn't properly read. 

Edited August 23, 2014 by Borges

[hellcat420 212]

Yes online with a world economy and the internet.

 

However although I can't really say with certainty how likely it would be I would bet that it would be nearly impossible to find such a mount for a mosin in a remote eastern region like Chenarus once the world has ended due to a zombie plague

 

As for it being easy to mount I disagree I have been shooting guns and owned guns since I was a kid but I will not do any gunsmithing on my guns. .

i do gunsmithing all of the time on mine. just becasue you have never done it before does not make it hard to do. if you have the ability to use the most basic tools drilling and tapping for scope mounts/rails is a simple task, as i said before, if you can use a ruler and a drill, you can easily drill and tap. i used the internet because i am at work and cant leave just to drive 3 mins to one of the local gunstores for an internet arguement. i dont want to get fired.

Edited August 23, 2014 by hellcat420

[rybec 339]

i do gunsmithing all of the time on mine. just becasue you have never done it before does not make it hard to do. if you have the ability to use the most basic tools drilling and tapping for scope mounts/rails is a simple task, as i said before, if you can use a ruler and a drill, you can easily drill and tap. i used the internet because i am at work and cant leave just to drive 3 mins to one of the local gunstores for an internet arguement. i dont want to get fired.

It'd be interesting to go to the machine shops in Cherno and Elektro to grab drill bits, taps and rapidtap but that seems a little too in-depth I suppose.