Banned from Dallas 22 server

[SPESSMEHREN (DayZ) 16]

The simple fact is Lefty' date=' you should have ignored this thread.

You are going to get trolled hard because of your response.

The #1 rule of thumb for DayZ: The moderators and Playerbase hate admins. Even if you had proof, you'd still get shit.

The Devs...they don't much care either.

We're pretty much alone out here.

Better luck next time brother.

[/quote']

Admins should go on strike. They are the infrastructure and the money behind the mod atm and they are getting abused so bad it's not even funny. Lefty's response is understandable. He has been pushed way too far, and Ive never seen that in a game ever.

Yeah. Admins are getting shit on, and they're the ones paying for these ungrateful dc'ing fucks to play.

Curgon said that people are breaking down the doors to be admins. Okay, fair enough. But when they become admins, they get shit on by the community....pretty soon you're not going to have anyone willing to pay to keep this mod online.

The door swings both ways DayZ community/devs. Keep that in mind.

The problem with what you're suggesting is that tents and vehicles are tied to the server, so it'd be unfair to give admins full control over their servers. That data is DayZ's data, not your own server's data.

I've seen what happens when you give hotheaded clan admins their own DayZ server. I'll give you a hint: we usually end up banned for breaking a rule made up on the spot because we killed the admins or stole their choppers.

Ordinarily, this wouldn't be a problem. Just find a different server, right? Oh, but what about your stash of food, water, guns, ammo, and vehicles stashed on the server? Oh, gone, too bad! Sucks for you! QQ more, right? Perhaps you shouldn't thought twice before joining a server run by an elitist clan whose admins ban on whims and do not understand which side the burden of proof lies on.

Here's the problem with banning people for DCing: You've taken it upon yourself to police your servers for potential DCers. Just how do you go about that? Do you only ban people who DC while shooting you or your clan buddies? Do you let any old player say "omg he disconnected twice in an hour! must be DCing!!!!!11" Do you ban anyone who connects to your servers more than three times in an hour, with zero proof of DCing to avoid PvP? Do players on your servers need to be terrified to disconnect in fear of being branded a DCer?

[WildGunsTomcat 78]

The simple fact is Lefty' date=' you should have ignored this thread.

You are going to get trolled hard because of your response.

The #1 rule of thumb for DayZ: The moderators and Playerbase hate admins. Even if you had proof, you'd still get shit.

The Devs...they don't much care either.

We're pretty much alone out here.

Better luck next time brother.

[/quote']

Admins should go on strike. They are the infrastructure and the money behind the mod atm and they are getting abused so bad it's not even funny. Lefty's response is understandable. He has been pushed way too far, and Ive never seen that in a game ever.

Yeah. Admins are getting shit on, and they're the ones paying for these ungrateful dc'ing fucks to play.

Curgon said that people are breaking down the doors to be admins. Okay, fair enough. But when they become admins, they get shit on by the community....pretty soon you're not going to have anyone willing to pay to keep this mod online.

The door swings both ways DayZ community/devs. Keep that in mind.

The problem with what you're suggesting is that tents and vehicles are tied to the server, so it'd be unfair to give admins full control over their servers. That data is DayZ's data, not your own server's data.

I've seen what happens when you give hotheaded clan admins their own DayZ server. I'll give you a hint: we usually end up banned for breaking a rule made up on the spot because we killed the admins or stole their choppers.

Ordinarily, this wouldn't be a problem. Just find a different server, right? Oh, but what about your stash of food, water, guns, ammo, and vehicles stashed on the server? Oh, gone, too bad! Sucks for you! QQ more, right?

Here's the problem with banning people for DCing: You've taken it upon yourself to police your servers for potential DCers. Just how do you go about that? Do you only ban people who DC while shooting you or your clan buddies? Do you let any old player say "omg he disconnected twice in an hour! must be DCing!!!!!11" Do you ban anyone who connects to your servers more than three times in an hour, with zero proof of DCing to avoid PvP? Do players on your servers need to be terrified to disconnect in fear of being branded a DCer?

I'm not going to sit here and argue.

DCing is an exploit. It has been said many many times.

I know when someone DC's on me...because I shoot at them and they disappear.

And they are banned accordingly. I don't need proof, I don't need to make the community happy.

Those of you that don't admin servers don't quite get how frustrating it is to try and run a clean server with one hand tied behind your back.

But, as Vipeax once said...your server isn't blacklisted...why do you care what the playerbase thinks?

*Shrug* And I don't.

[humbleuk 76]

you said, he said, fuck sake.

No evidence? nope.. so why argue over it?

I think it's about time this section of the forum got some rules "pics/video or it didn't happen" simple!

Server admins are always made out to be the bad guys, players are innocent... all the time? fuck off.

[SPESSMEHREN (DayZ) 16]

you said' date=' he said, fuck sake.

No evidence? nope.. so why argue over it?

I think it's about time this section of the forum got some rules "pics/video or it didn't happen" simple!

Server admins are always made out to be the bad guys, players are innocent... all the time? fuck off.

[/quote']

Don't you mean server logs?

This section would be a lot more efficient if server admins were required to prove that the bans are valid with server logs, instead of shifting the burden of proof onto the players. Pics and videos from the players could help in some cases, but they are unreliable because they don't usually tell the whole story. Server logs cannot lie.

[humbleuk 76]

Server logs are not going to help in these instances, they won't show you got banned for raiding an admin camp, and unless the player was 100% sure at what time all this happened it would be hard to track down who dc'd and who didn't.

More to the point, it is far to common that "admins" are "abusing" power, when really it's just sour grapes someone got banned for something they did, usually the simple outcomes are the truth.

I just can't see why people with these epic stories never have any proof at all or never provide any videos/screens but for some reason admins have to proove otherwise.

Words vs words is bs and it's time it changed.

Evidence, this is the key to all various things, without it, nothing.

[WildGunsTomcat 78]

Server logs are not going to help in these instances' date=' they won't show you got banned for raiding an admin camp, and unless the player was 100% sure at what time all this happened it would be hard to track down who dc'd and who didn't.

More to the point, it is far to common that "admins" are "abusing" power, when really it's just sour grapes someone got banned for something they did, usually the simple outcomes are the truth.

I just can't see why people with these epic stories never have any proof at all or never provide any videos/screens but for some reason admins have to proove otherwise.

Words vs words is bs and it's time it changed.

Evidence, this is the key to all various things, without it, nothing.

[/quote']

You hit the nail on the head pretty much.

Admins are always guilty, players are always the victims.

[BonnyBrown 28]

Admins should be expected to provide proof for at least two reasons, they are the ones with the power and they need to be held to the same standard that other players would be.

1. They have the power to ban. They get to ban on the fly, so they are the ones in the position to know when an abuse which merits a ban happens. To say they can't be bothered to put together proof when they're the ones who are directly banning a player for an offense which has happened right then when they are banning is not too much to ask. They have logs, they can take screen shots, they can record the behavior at the time it is happening. Whereas players do not have that luxury. Expecting players to magically assume they will be banned at any point in play and screenshot/record every second of play so they can provide evidence to defend themselves when an admin decides to ban them is ridiculous.

2. A legitimate admin wouldn't ban a player simply because another player claimed that they did something wrong. They would expect some sort of proof something had happened. They should be held to the same standard as normal players on the server.

[PvtHopscotch 0]

You hit the nail on the head pretty much.

Admins are always guilty' date=' players are always the victims.

[/quote']

I'm not going to say that some players aren't annoying little pricks who feel the need to whine when they lose but then again there are complete shit Admins out there as well but there is way too much generalization going on here.

As shitty as it may be however, if you are an admin, this places you in a position of power. A position of power will always be under stricter scrutiny, that is a fact of life. To go along with that though, from what I've read of these forums, much like our judicial system, since YOU hold the power, the burden of proof falls to you not the accused. Bullshit? Maybe in some cases, but it is what it is.

[humbleuk 76]

@BonnyBrown good point so....

admin needs to proove it, with screens and logs.

Player just sits in forum trolling? okay.

Players don't bring proof half the time... because why would they want to proove, they were doing something wrong?

Server admins don't have to proove anything if player can't either, it's 2 sides to a story, 2 parties are involved, no-one can proove anything, so move on already.

Players vs admin, when really they are all gamers trying to play, somesort of alienation with admin vs player forum posts.

When you accuse someone of something, you have to proove it, or GTFO!!

[BonnyBrown 28]

good point so....

admin needs to proove it' date=' with screens and logs.

Player just sits in forum trolling? okay.

Players don't bring proof half the time... because why would they want to proove, they were doing something wrong?

Server admins don't have to proove anything if player can't either, it's 2 sides to a story, 2 parties are involved, no-one can proove anything, so move on already.

[/quote']The admin who bans a player is in the position to know when the ban is going to go down. They are in the position of knowing when a ban-worthy activity is happening. Expecting them to take a few notes and gather some proof before they hit the ban button isn't an excessive expectation.

A player simply playing the game should not be expected to run fraps 24/7 just so they can give evidence to refute an admin who had every opportunity to collect evidence.

It's not simply he-said she-said, that would be two independent players with no power accusing each other of things. This is a case of a person with the power to ban another accusing an independent player of something. To suggest the person with power should run unchecked while the individual player has to prove they are innocent is totally ridiculous. There is no way this "lefty" idiot would randomly ban anyone I said dced from me if I logged on his server right now. He'd expect me to prove it. Why should he be held to a different standard? Because he is an admin of a video game server? Pathetic.

[humbleuk 76]

it is a he-said she-said - this is all this thread is.

Go back to page one.

And if someone has to proove they are innocent, the same applies for all parties involved not just one.

Mr x: i got kicked this admin abuse

server admin: no you didn't wheres your proof?

Mr x: got none

Server admin: i didn't kick you

he said she said/

To suggest the person who got kicked should run unchecked while the server admins have to prove they are innocent is totally ridiculous.

he said she said, this is all this thread is - the entire thread is this.

[BonnyBrown 28]

it is a he-said she-said - this is all this thread is.

Go back to page one.

And if someone has to proove they are innocent' date=' the same applies for all parties involved not just one.

Mr x: i got kicked this admin abuse

server admin: no you didn't wheres your proof?

Mr x: got none

Server admin: i didn't kick you

he said she said/

To suggest the person who got kicked should run unchecked while the server admins have to prove they are innocent is totally ridiculous.

he said she said, this is all this thread is - the entire thread is this.

[/quote']This is not a simple case of he-said she-said as one side is a person of power, who has access to an elevated position and ability to know when said power will be enforced. They have more tools at their disposal to provide evidence that a ban is warranted when they accuse someone of something, such as logs and the ability to collect evidence before any punishment is dealt out. The person holding such power should be held to the same standard as anyone else would when accusing a player of a bannable offense.

The person who got kicked is not running unchecked, they are playing as normal and should only be banned if evidence is provided which would warrant such a ban. Just like an admin should expect evidence of a bannable offense from another player making an accusation, an admin should be expected to provide evidence of their accusation as well.

What you're suggesting is nonsense honestly. You want an admin, who has access to logs, has the ability to know when a ban is going to come down, and has every single opportunity to collect evidence to be able to ban anyone, for any reason, provide zero proof of anything, and then ask the person who received a ban, who has access to absolutely none of those items, to prove the admin was wrong. That's an absolute load of crap.

What I expect is that an admin should be held to the exact same standard he or she would hold any random player who joins the server and accuses anyone else of abuse. Is that really asking so much? That an admin who would expect me to prove that someone else on his server was dcing to also provide evidence when he says he saw some dcing?

Who do you people think you are? You think because you pay for some video game server, which hosts content that you didn't even make, you should be allowed to come out on top of a double standard where anything you say goes and everyone else has to prove things? That's bullshit and I think servers with admins like that should be blacklisted.

[jbrodjeski@yahoo.com 16]

I already posted about these admins at Dallas 22. We attacked there base and they took the server down 2 times because they assumed we were hacking. They also combat logged when we attacked there base. The same thing they accused you of doing.

Here is my link. I have sent the information to the DayZ devs along with my TS conversation where they admitted to jumping the gun on banning us with no proof.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=9754

[Pickerd 1]

This is exactly why the devs should have never put such harsh restrictions on server admins. They can't build our little corner of the game. ive never had any probs like this in my BF3 servers or my TF2 servers. They are ran well and if someone gets banned, they can appeal on the forums which are reviewed by a 5 strong admin squad. You can ask any of my regulars (The Lizard Lounge on Steam or Battlelog) what they think of the server or it's admins. And I didnt need Dice or anyone else to tell me how to run them. The crappy servers with bad admins? They do exist, not saying they don't, but generate a bad rep and sit empty too.

Can ensure we dont get bombarded with hackers, tweeny ragers, racists, exploiters and those who thing the freedom of the internet means you can publicly berate people. My servers are full all day and most the night because of the atmosphere and sense of community they have.

What the devs here want is an MMO where the server admins are basically in GM's, and thats fine, if they didnt foot the bill. You can't have a paid MMO where the front line workers not only dont get paid, they actually have to pay. Ever heard of a GM for an MMO being required to pay to be a GM? No. They dont exist. But that is how DayZ is right now. If you want an MMO devs, charge the players and host your own server clusters. Cant do that though eh. Mod would get nowhere fast, so obviously that is far from an option, but it is an MMO I would be interested in that's for sure, as long as their was something done about cheating.

These guys are fair ppl, and they are catching alot of flak over 3 guys who come on the forums and lied about what really happened. They disco'd during a firefight. Their were multiple witnesses, one has actually replied here about it. So all that anyone has on the admins is a mistake, which is human and anyone can make, from a butthurt player who wont let it go.

(btw Dark, there were actually hackers on the server when you guys raided the tents and vehicles, but even knowing that there was, and it was suspected it was you guys, they still didnt stop you guys from raiding til they were sure some hacking was happening, so you were still able to fully raid 2 of their camps, with no bans, no server restarts til AFTER. That sound like an admin that is shady to you? or was it more simpy just a mistake and they banned the wrong guys. let it go. they owned up, unbanned, caught the right ppl, and moved on. they are dong their best to help make sure players have a fair place to play, and right now, DayZ is making APB look like a church when it comes to hacking. it soooo bad in there ive stopped playing)

Yup. 4 pages long, over players falsely accusing. Normal day on the server forums, but the admins are the bad guys.

[SPESSMEHREN (DayZ) 16]

it is a he-said she-said - this is all this thread is.

Go back to page one.

And if someone has to proove they are innocent' date=' the same applies for all parties involved not just one.

Mr x: i got kicked this admin abuse

server admin: no you didn't wheres your proof?

Mr x: got none

Server admin: i didn't kick you

he said she said/

To suggest the person who got kicked should run unchecked while the server admins have to prove they are innocent is totally ridiculous.

he said she said, this is all this thread is - the entire thread is this.

[/quote']

It's not "totally ridiculous," it's valid logic. The burden of proof rests on the person making the claim, which, in this case, is the claim of wrongdoing. An admin must prove that their ban is valid.

Asserting that players should be responsible for disproving the admin's claim is an argumentum ad ignorantiam (appeal to ignorance), and is not valid logic.

Just think about criminal law for a second. If a person is accused of a crime and put on trial, is it up to them to prove their innocence? Nope, because the burden of proof rests on the accuser, the prosecution.

[WildGunsTomcat 78]

it is a he-said she-said - this is all this thread is.

Go back to page one.

And if someone has to proove they are innocent' date=' the same applies for all parties involved not just one.

Mr x: i got kicked this admin abuse

server admin: no you didn't wheres your proof?

Mr x: got none

Server admin: i didn't kick you

he said she said/

To suggest the person who got kicked should run unchecked while the server admins have to prove they are innocent is totally ridiculous.

he said she said, this is all this thread is - the entire thread is this.

[/quote']

It's not "totally ridiculous," it's valid logic. The burden of proof rests on the person making the claim, which, in this case, is the claim of wrongdoing. An admin must prove that their ban is valid.

Asserting that players should be responsible for disproving the admin's claim is an argumentum ad ignorantiam (appeal to ignorance), and is not valid logic.

Just think about criminal law for a second. If a person is accused of a crime and put on trial, is it up to them to prove their innocence? Nope, because the burden of proof rests on the accuser, the prosecution.

This isn't a courtroom.

I find it fucking absurd that the person footing the bill has to justify running his own goddamn server his way.

The restrictions placed on the servers by the dev team have given the players all the rights. That is bullshit.

If I pay, I make the rules. That's what is right. Period.

[Orphen (DayZ) 14]

It's your file server, Rocket's files. You pretty much sign an agreement saying you'll run those files as he wanted. You could host your porn on that server and no one would care what you did with it as long as it's not Rocket's files.

It's basically Rocket's server (for lack of a better word) you're paying to run and you're babysitting it for him. It's not yours. It will never be yours until he takes you off the leash. Until then, you obey the rules. You are in the position of power and should act accordingly, blatantly attacking forum moderators is not the way to run things correctly. You are required to provide proof if you ban someone, it's common sense.

[WildGunsTomcat 78]

It's your file server' date=' Rocket's files. You pretty much sign an agreement saying you'll run those files as he wanted. You could host your porn on that server and no one would care what you did with it as long as it's not Rocket's files.

It's basically Rocket's server (for lack of a better word) you're paying to run and you're babysitting it for him. It's not yours. It will never be yours until he takes you off the leash. Until then, you obey the rules. You are in the position of power and should act accordingly, blatantly attacking forum moderators is not the way to run things correctly. You are required to provide proof if you ban someone, it's common sense.

[/quote']

lol it's not his. It's mine. Until someone else pays 180 bucks a month for it, it will still be mine.

Sorry. That's the way it really is.

[Orphen (DayZ) 14]

You've got a false sense of entitlement here. It's a common trait for egotistical people.

Rocket's rules. You have to obey them. Just like we have to obey the rules to not hack etc etc.

You pay because you chose to. No one is forcing you to. You can stop paying if you think the rules are too strict. You don't get to change those rules.

[WildGunsTomcat 78]

You've got a false sense of entitlement here. It's a common trait for egotistical people.

Rocket's rules. You have to obey them. Just like we have to obey the rules to not hack etc etc.

You pay because you chose to. No one is forcing you to. You can stop paying if you think the rules are too strict. You don't get to change those rules.

I ban people for DCing.

The dev team hasn't blacklisted me. I've never provided proof.

Deal with it.

[Orphen (DayZ) 14]

I'm sure that could be changed if you provided logs of every ban you ever did.

Oh wait, you don't provide proof, do you?

Point proven. Admins covering their own arses.

[WildGunsTomcat 78]

I'm sure that could be changed if you provided logs of every ban you ever did.

Oh wait' date=' you don't provide proof, do you?

Point proven. Admins covering their own arses.

[/quote']

lol yep. You see Orphen, we've had this discussion over and over before. I don't have to provide logs for every person I ban. If I suspect DC'ing...peace. You're outta there.

If the DayZ team decides they don't like it...no skin off my ass. But, the fact that people like you have complained ad nauseum for weeks now and threatened to get me blacklisted....and it still hasn't happened....

Well...let's just say that the law is on my side. The only people I answer to is the dev team. That's it. And someone like you parroting the rules in frustration over and over just makes me chuckle. You'll get nowhere.

[Orphen (DayZ) 14]

I'm glad you think you're some superior muffin to the rest of us. Keep pretending if it makes your forever-alone existence that little bit more bearable.

You're just another guy whom for whatever reason decided to shell out to run a server. Apparently that's made you think you have the right to do whatever you like whenever you want.

Admins should have no more rights than their players, simple as that. The reason you're able to kick and ban is a privilege and one that should be taken away from people like you who think it's alright to do whatever you want with someone else's software and gametime.

The fact that you can afford a server in the first place tells me you're an adult. Perhaps it's time you got off your teenage power trip and did a reality check. You aren't anymore important as anyone else on the forums.

[Pickerd 1]

It's not "totally ridiculous' date='" it's valid logic. The burden of proof rests on the person making the claim, which, in this case, is the claim of wrongdoing. An admin must prove that their ban is valid.

....because the burden of proof rests on the accuser, the prosecution.

[/quote']

Um, dude. The players accused the admins with no proof that they indeed didnt disco during a firefight. Then a forum mod decided to change the rules on the fly and make the accused provide proof, so in your own logical argument, you are completely backing up the admins. If that was your intention, and for some reason im reading your thread wrong. more players like us need to back them up, and if it wasnt and you messed up, im laughing alot on the inside.

I do find it funny that players are basically backing up other players who break rules/exploit. I have a great idea that will solve all this threads arguments. Play like men and dont disco during a firefight. Play with integrity.

Like old Orphan up here. Wildguns is talking about kicking people who are exploiting the system and cheating. He isnt talking aabout banning people cause they have the letter 'k' in their names. Are you really defending cheaters as your argument towards Wildguns banning? I think i would prefer being on a server where the admins remove the twats that cheat myself.

[Orphen (DayZ) 14]

Orphen. There's an E.

Would you really want an Admin that could ban for whatever reason he chose to? Admins are meant to be responsible, professional and reliable. They should provide proof for their actions, no matter what action was taken, if questioned as is expected of a server admin.

As mentioned before, not all players have FRAPS running but any competent server admin has access to the server logs.

Just to add: Kicking for exploiting I can understand. Despite Rocket not outlining that rule specifically, I have no doubt in my mind that he supports that reason for kicks/bans. What developer wouldn't?

But if someone is banned for that reason and the admin is called out on it, they should have proof at the ready.