Experimental Branch: 0.48 Discussion

[trev186 389]

Just because all the doors are shut doesn't mean anything. I always close all doors behind me. Even the inside ones. First off I want people like you to feel comfortable. If they enter my building I want them to be at ease in case I have to ambush them. I ain't making it easy for anybody.

Common misconception on his part.

Doors are closed in looted areas in two ways:

1. Another player closed behind them

2. On server restart all doors closed

Since serve restart no longer respawns loot a lot of people are still in the mindset that server restart will somehow still spawn new loot.

Your defending the current situation of loot respawns quite a bit but I fear they are broken. Sure harder is better but ask yourself if after 3 days 90% of the decent loot on a popular server is all gone and wont respawn til someone basically collects trash loot on purpose....what is the point of exploring at all ?

People will just head to a server.

If you dont believe there are any problems with the loot respawn mechanic I could prove it to you by basically draining Vybor mil base until it will no longer respawn a single item until someone goes to. Neighboring city and looted a ton of stuff...but even then the odds of loot respawning at vybor mil base will be like 1-2 items for every 20 looted from another area in the grid and the odds those items that do spawn will be worthless is quite high.

They have made it unattractive to loot cycle as ann exploit but at the same time loot respawns are not working in a good way

[Sharplooter 98]

Hmm, I wouldn't say that SWE 0-1 and SWE 0-4 has less players than an avarage US server, sometimes it looks to me rather like the opposite.

[ebrim 998]

...Your defending the current situation of loot respawns quite a bit but I fear they are broken. Sure harder is better but ask yourself if after 3 days 90% of the decent loot on a popular server is all gone and wont respawn til someone basically collects trash loot on purpose....what is the point of exploring at all ?...

I really dislike this concept of "decent" loot and I feel it must only come from being spoiled by an abundance of high-end military gear present previously. A screwdriver is damn decent loot, it opens cans and it can be a weapon and it's a hell of a step-up from just having a flashlight. Thinking you don't have decent loot because you don't have an AKM with a drum mag is just a sign that the old normal has set expectations way too high. I think the community could use a little sobering up after being drunk on easy-mode for so long.

[Ziad 34]

Perhaps so.  On the other hand, though, if I had jumped into this as things are now, with no prep, back in December, I would have died a dozen times in the first two days, felt like I had never gotten anywhere, and quit.  Probably would not have come back, ever.  As it is, I have hundreds, maybe thousands of hours of play, most of which has been reasonably enjoyable.  Much of that has been learning tricks and workarounds that you just aren't told - yes, you can find the answers here or in other forums, but the game should be able to stand on its own.

 

An average person who has never watched the Yutube videos, and without the help of online sources, would be extremely frustrated if they were dumped in at the deep end as things are now.  Those are the people we need to be concerned with. 

 

 

Z

[trev186 389]

Hmm, I wouldn't say that SWE 0-1 and SWE 0-4 has less players than an avarage US server, sometimes it looks to me rather like the opposite.

Just a hunch...that or maybe people just avoided the areas or less people server hop there ?

Dont know but I doubt they added any special updates to SWE vs other hubs...

Maybe someone is collecting trash I dunno.

I am 90% sure if I wanted I could loot cycle any mil base on any server to the point where the bases have basically 0 loot in them.

This eventually happens naturally by many people passing through or by others exploiting but the way the system works high value loot will eventually cease to spawn until trash is collected. Not hard to understand.

Even if trash dropped by players is despawned every loot spawn point has a chance to spawn trash or treasure. Statistically under the current where loot does not despawn unless touched by another (if it even does) players will naturally skip over junk and pickup good loot until every spawn location is filled with something very few want or need.

Rather than take out the trash players will swap servers until all loot os clogged ok all servers.

The current system basically rewards those who jump on right after the devs manually reset loot and punish those who cant rush in.

The whole thing is unbalanced and takes the fun out of playing.

I am confident they are seeing the same results and will make the right choice on adjustments

[frosti 2165]

Common misconception on his part.

Doors are closed in looted areas in two ways:

1. Another player closed behind them

2. On server restart all doors closed

Since serve restart no longer respawns loot a lot of people are still in the mindset that server restart will somehow still spawn new loot.

Your defending the current situation of loot respawns quite a bit but I fear they are broken. Sure harder is better but ask yourself if after 3 days 90% of the decent loot on a popular server is all gone and wont respawn til someone basically collects trash loot on purpose....what is the point of exploring at all ?

People will just head to a server.

If you dont believe there are any problems with the loot respawn mechanic I could prove it to you by basically draining Vybor mil base until it will no longer respawn a single item until someone goes to. Neighboring city and looted a ton of stuff...but even then the odds of loot respawning at vybor mil base will be like 1-2 items for every 20 looted from another area in the grid and the odds those items that do spawn will be worthless is quite high.

They have made it unattractive to loot cycle as ann exploit but at the same time loot respawns are not working in a good way

 

On the contrary. With this loot system game will actually feel like a survival game.

[frosti 2165]

Just a hunch...that or maybe people just avoided the areas or less people server hop there ?

Dont know but I doubt they added any special updates to SWE vs other hubs...

Maybe someone is collecting trash I dunno.

I am 90% sure if I wanted I could loot cycle any mil base on any server to the point where the bases have basically 0 loot in them.

This eventually happens naturally by many people passing through or by others exploiting but the way the system works high value loot will eventually cease to spawn until trash is collected. Not hard to understand.

Even if trash dropped by players is despawned every loot spawn point has a chance to spawn trash or treasure. Statistically under the current where loot does not despawn unless touched by another (if it even does) players will naturally skip over junk and pickup good loot until every spawn location is filled with something very few want or need.

Rather than take out the trash players will swap servers until all loot os clogged ok all servers.

The current system basically rewards those who jump on right after the devs manually reset loot and punish those who cant rush in.

The whole thing is unbalanced and takes the fun out of playing.

I am confident they are seeing the same results and will make the right choice on adjustments

 

Well yes, few lucky people that serve hop on the right time will be geared and rest will have to recycle rotten kiwis and hats.

 

But after ~a week everyone will have to recycle rotten kiwis and hats and it will be fair.

[trev186 389]

I really dislike this concept of "decent" loot and I feel it must only come from being spoiled by an abundance of high-end military gear present previously. A screwdriver is damn decent loot, it opens cans and it can be a weapon and it's a hell of a step-up from just having a flashlight. Thinking you don't have decent loot because you don't have an AKM with a drum mag is just a sign that the old normal has set expectations way too high. I think the community could use a little sobering up after being drunk on easy-mode for so long.

No fact is if someone hits the entire other of the warrior they should be better offthan some guy chilling in svet or safe backwoods towns...

Current system does not reward u for taking more risks and therefore does not leave incentive to hit those areas after they have been cleared out.

I never said I deserve an AKM with a drum mag ur just quoting an extreme to make ur argument look good.

I have on several servers hit the entire northwest area mil bases and not found a gun plus ammo combination.

So all that work and u cant defend urself ? So why try to go there if it all goes to those who get there first or the exploiters ?

I never mentioned a screw driver.

I did a test run earlier and u will see the items I listed that I found were all items I could find easier in non mil areas....

There is no reason to go there if there is not at least some reward.

I believe the current system on stable is too much and the system on exp is too little.

Fine if u dont agree with me but I have killed a lot of people in the northwest who stood no chance cause I got gear earlier....it takes th fun out of the game if u say well I cant hit up any place except small towns which may or may not have loot...

Just look at the system and how it does not despawn trash loot that is spawned in.

Statistically the system will clog itself with loot no one wants until manual intervention by players or devs.

[trev186 389]

Well yes, few lucky people that serve hop on the right time will be geared and rest will have to recycle rotten kiwis and hats.

 

But after ~a week everyone will have to recycle rotten kiwis and hats and it will be fair.

Well yes, few lucky people that serve hop on the right time will be geared and rest will have to recycle rotten kiwis and hats.

 

But after ~a week everyone will have to recycle rotten kiwis and hats and it will be fair.

And the even consider loot cycling an exploit and have removed posts on how to even do it.....

So it makes perfect sense right that we have to loot cycle to get gear ?

Right makes perfect sense....

There can be plenty of survival if loot spawns slowly but cleans itself up slowly as well....

[basinox 300]

I really hope the fact that the new update wasn't released to steam doesn't effect the next stable update.

[frosti 2165]

And the even consider loot cycling an exploit and have removed posts on how to even do it.....

So it makes perfect sense right that we have to loot cycle to get gear ?

Right makes perfect sense....

There can be plenty of survival if loot spawns slowly but cleans itself up slowly as well....

 

I think that private server admins will find the way to 'hard' reset server to fill up military zones with loot anyway, so no worries.

[Sharplooter 98]

... I feel it must only come from being spoiled by an abundance of high-end military gear present previously...

 

This!

 

If I am honest after a few days I start to like the new loot concept more and more, because so-called "bandits" who just search the fast "kick" or kill people just because they are to lazy to run far ways and collect loote will be displaced sooner or later.

 

One of the aims the devs already achieved is the ending of the random deathmatch around Berezino. This area is always so dry sucked that people are forced to get their ass up now for heading towards west, always! And if people are once at good loot points in west like Balota, NWAF or Zeleno they will have a hard time now, easy grubbing per server hopping is over too. And I earnest compliments the devs for this goals.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Sharplooter

[frosti 2165]

This!

 

If I am honestly after a few days I start to like the new loot concept more and more, because so-called "bandits" who just search the fast "kick" or kill people just because they are to lazy to run far ways and collect loote will displaced sooner or later.

 

One of the aims the devs already achieved is the ending of the random deathmatch around Berezino. This area is always so dry sucked that people are forced to get their ass up now for heading towards west, always! And if people are once at good loot pointa in west like Balota, NWAF or Zeleno they will have a hard time now, easy grubbing per server hopping is over too. And I earnest compliments the devs for this goals.

 

Now devs have to keep eye on the clever loot recycle exploits and possible server resets and we will actually have true survival game.

[trev186 389]

I think that private server admins will find the way to 'hard' reset server to fill up military zones with loot anyway, so no worries.

Well if they institute a decent respawn system that wont be necessary unless they are just cheating...which at that point not much u can do.

I propose the following:

Loot cant respawn instantly

Loot cannot spawn ontop of of loot already spawned and not touched

All loot touched or untouched slowly despawns over time

Any spawn point without something already spawned in can then spawn an item after a set amount of time(includes areas where items despawned)

If they set the timers right then yes heavily trafficked areas will have less loot and encourage u to explore for survival.

At the same time thoughloot will eventually respawn or or cycle itself so there is always incentive to take risks.

Imagine if out of 100 items at NWAF all the spawn points are on different timers so only maybe 10% of the loot respawns every hour and u have no guarantee where or when this will happens but kno it will.then it is always possible to reap a reward all awhile not acting like curreent stable where if u time it right u know that all 100 of those spawns are good.

At the same time if 20 Bambi's are cmaping berezino they will run low on food and have to venture out but new loot will respawn eventually so people who come in 12 hours later will have something to start off with

Edited August 11, 2014 by trev186

[ebrim 998]

...

Just look at the system and how it does not despawn trash loot that is spawned in.

Statistically the system will clog itself with loot no one wants until manual intervention by players or devs.

...

My understanding is that it's planned that items will despawn after a certain length of time to make room for new items. What we have currently is not the finished loot spawn system or even one where all planned features are implemented. While I likely was a bit hyperbolic in representing your position, I still think much of what you're referring to as trash actually could have positive utilization and shouldn't just be passed up as a matter of course. Unless you're strictly referring to things like duct tape which don't yet have an implemented use.

[trev186 389]

This!

 

If I am honest after a few days I start to like the new loot concept more and more, because so-called "bandits" who just search the fast "kick" or kill people just because they are to lazy to run far ways and collect loote will displaced sooner or later.

 

One of the aims the devs already achieved is the ending of the random deathmatch around Berezino. This area is always so dry sucked that people are forced to get their ass up now for heading towards west, always! And if people are once at good loot pointa in west like Balota, NWAF or Zeleno they will have a hard time now, easy grubbing per server hopping is over too. And I earnest compliments the devs for this goals.

Bandits have more incentive now...

I found that once I was geared well 90% of the people I encountered in the northwest could not defend themselves from me.

Further if I know I cant fin any loot at a mil base I do know that someone who has found on or two items searching other areas will eventually come. Again odds are they cannot stand up to me and I kill them and take what they have.

What incentive do I have ?

After awhile no one even came to the mil bases anymore on my servers cause they knew they had better luck finding an sks and some ammo in a barn in myshinko or some other hole in the wall.

I agree stable is too much loot but pray they dont push this current build to stable.

Server hopping will be more rampant than ever and so will duping.

Taking loot out of the equation does not result in more cooperation it results in more cut throats.

It is good less people camp berezino for DM dont get me wrong but as someone who has spent 8 plus hours testing how the loot spawn system is working I would say it is very broken and takes most the fun out of the game unless u exploit.

[frosti 2165]

Well if they institute a decent respawn system that wont be necessary unless they are just cheating...which at that point not much u can do.

I propose the following:

Loot cant respawn instantly

Loot cannot spawn ontop of of loot already spawned and not touched

All loot touched or untouched slowly despawns over time

Any spawn point without something already spawned in can then spawn an item after a set amount of time(includes areas where items despawned)

If they set the timers right then yes heavily trafficked areas will have less loot and encourage u to explore for survival.

At the same time thoughloot will eventually respawn or or cycle itself so there is always incentive to take risks.

Imagine if out of 100 items at NWAF all the spawn points are on different timers so only maybe 10% of the loot respawns every hour and u have no guarantee where or when this will happens but kno it will.then it is always possible to reap a reward all awhile not acting like curreent stable where if u time it right u know that all 100 of those spawns are good.

At the same time if 20 Bambi's are cmaping berezino they will run low on food and have to venture out but new loot will respawn eventually so people who come in 12 hours later will have something to start off with

 

Well loot respawning on a timer proved to be fail in DayZ mod server. People basically camped NWAF barracks till it respawned the loot.

 

With current system people actually have to move and pick up items if they want  'good' zones to respawn items.

 

This specially makes  "bandit" or Call of Duty play style impossible so of course people will whine.

[trev186 389]

My understanding is that it's planned that items will despawn after a certain length of time to make room for new items. What we have currently is not the finished loot spawn system or even one where all planned features are implemented. While I likely was a bit hyperbolic in representing your position, I still think much of what you're referring to as trash actually could have positive utilization and shouldn't just be passed up as a matter of course. Unless you're strictly referring to things like duct tape which don't yet have an implemented use.

They have mentioned player touched loot will despawn.

But I am saying that untouched loot needs to despawn as well.

I agree with u much loot has purpose....but u have to remember context.

Most people who have ventured to the NWAF will have a way to open cans or have decent clothing. It is now time to take the risks of being killed by an AKM wielding manic like myself to get a higher tier of gear....

But if u know that NWAF has been looted 10 times before u arrive and ur most likely going to find more screw drivers and next to no mil gear at all...will u take the risk ? Or will u hop to a server where u believe less people have looted the NWAF ?

I find loot up there but is nothing u cant find before arriving there at a much lessor risk.

Loot even if untouched needs to eventually despawn so there is a chance something decent can spawn in its place. There should be timers and maybe even the time for loot touched is shorter than untouched loot but if not the way loot spawns eventually that grid will be filled with junk until someone pruposlly looted the junk for the sake of making it despawn....this is loot cycling and the devs consider it an exploit when done to an extreme.

[Sharplooter 98]

Now devs have to keep eye on the clever loot recycle exploits and possible server resets and we will actually have true survival game.

 

Yes, if the server got reset by admins the loot should spawned with protraction. Its was boring to loot a server after reset as well.

[trev186 389]

Well loot respawning on a timer proved to be fail in DayZ mod server. People basically camped NWAF barracks till it respawned the loot.

 

With current system people actually have to move and pick up items if they want  'good' zones to respawn items.

 

This specially makes  "bandit" or Call of Duty play style impossible so of course people will whine.

Right in the mod that specific loot spawn would be on a timer and that was exploited.

And the current system loot wont respawn til that item is touched

But what I am proposing is different.

Example.

NWAF has 500 potential spawn points for loot

Lets say the grid allows for only 200 pieces of loot in the area at a tim.

Loot can only spawn in areas without loot. Loot also despawns when it has not been touched say after 4 hours.

Also no guarantees that item respawns in the same place

When a piece of loot like a rotten bell pepper despawns. The total count is reduced and one item can respawn somewhere else.

Lets say that pepper despawned and that put u at 199 of the 200 max.

So now there is 1 item which can respawn at 301 specific areas in th grid....

If the barracks only have say 20 spawn points and 15 of them are filled with items on various other cool down timers...then ur chances of getting the fresh respawn by camping it are next to none...

Further with long timers like 4 hours as opposed to instant replacements if someone does a clean sweep they have less incentive to time repeat...they know the gear wont replace for at least 4 hours....

Rather than camp better odds to hit a different area.

If u make the grid and spawn locations and timers large enough with enough randomness then no one can camp it effectively....sure they CAN camp but it will take so long that they would have better luck moving to an area that have not been too.

[ebrim 998]

...

But if u know that NWAF has been looted 10 times before u arrive and ur most likely going to find more screw drivers and next to no mil gear at all...will u take the risk ? Or will u hop to a server where u believe less people have looted the NWAF ?

...

Personally speaking, I'll tend to stay on a single server as I like a consistent day/night cycle and will probably have settings preferences. If people are looting NWAF so much that there is nothing there then there are plenty of people out there whom can be killed for said gear. Additionally, I don't have much problem with certain areas being high-risk/high-reward. You may be right that this will result in more server hopping but until characters are server-specific I don't know if this will just be a marginal change on an already frequent strategy or something a bit more significant. I'm happy to see how it plays out over an experimental patch cycle or two.

[frosti 2165]

Loot respawn on the timer makes camping/server hopping  military zone  the best option, so nothing changes from DayZ mod.

 

With current system your biggest problem seems to be that noobs will not visit NWAF or other military zones as often as they do now.

 

Instead of camping "NWAF" you'll have to travel the whole map to find people to kill and this is not a bad thing in my opinion.

 

I know, I know that camping NWAF firestation and shooting a noob that is climbing ladder is lots of fun but I really would like DayZ to actually be a survival game. And current .48 loot system makes it survival game much more then ever before.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Frosti

[hotcakes 348]

My team's reported getting Kamyshovo spawns in experimental.

 

THE ELEKTRO FUNHOUSE IS RETURNING.

 

Edited August 11, 2014 by hotcakes

[trev186 389]

Personally speaking, I'll tend to stay on a single server as I like a consistent day/night cycle and will probably have settings preferences. If people are looting NWAF so much that there is nothing there then there are plenty of people out there whom can be killed for said gear. Additionally, I don't have much problem with certain areas being high-risk/high-reward. You may be right that this will result in more server hopping but until characters are server-specific I don't know if this will just be a marginal change on an already frequent strategy or something a bit more significant. I'm happy to see how it plays out over an experimental patch cycle or two.

Never will all character be tied to a single server...

There swill be private shards where people can isolate single or groups of servers but there will also be the central hive.

I prefer the option to play on multiple servers so I can always get some action.

Players like ur or I wont hop for the reason of gear alone but many will.

Increasing the incentive/advantage to those who do or this who dupe would be bad all around.

U mentioned fining a highly geared player to kill....I have not seen one in days...in maybe 10 players I let in NWAF this weekend.

The other issue is most these people could barely find a decent gun/ammo combo to defend themselves against me the man with 2 AKMs and several drum mags.

The guy who did the best shot me with a chambered CZ527 but up against an AKM he was down a second later..

The context of these heavily looted servers for me is that I know there is no loot so I dont take risks and get out in the open where lessor geared players would normally try and jump me.

Instead myself and im sure other geared players patrol the area from realitivly safe places til a newbie shows up and then we track them til we can kill em.

All awhile with persistence my gear is tucked away where no one will ever find it so if I do die they get basically an AKM with a half full drum mag.

The current system has virtually no reward for people who risk the mil bases.

I killed one guy and made sure to tell him that the barracks he came to loot at vybor mil base were so empty that there was not a single piece of gear there...not even a rotten fruit.

This guy had survived and explored and patched together what he could and decided to loot a high risk area in hopes of getting a vest or more ammo or a better gun...when in reality he had more rewards waiting for him in a barn 2 KMs down the road then who would ever have in 3 barracks and a prison....

If after a week all the mil bases on a popular server are empty why would anyone go there ?

I know they are working on the system.

I am posting here to share thoughts on how it might be improved from my exp which is what this thread is for. Also posting to debate those who seem to imply the system is perfect and needs no change.

[trev186 389]

Loot respawn on the timer makes camping/server hopping  military zone  the best option, so nothing changes from DayZ mod.

 

With current system your biggest problem seems to be that noobs will not visit NWAF or other military zones as often as they do now.

 

Instead of camping "NWAF" you'll have to travel the whole map to find people to kill and this is not a bad thing in my opinion.

 

I know, I know that camping NWAF firestation and shooting a noob that is climbing ladder is lots of fun but I really would like DayZ to actually be a survival game. And current .48 loot system makes it survival game much more then ever before.

First of all not camping it I am trying to loot it as well as most the other bases on the west.

Second I am saying that as a result of nearly all the bases being looted dry in a matter of days...the current system results in 0 incentive to venture west.

me hunting and killing people as a result cause it is the best way to get gear is just a symptom. I normally stalk them a good distance to try and kill them in a way that maximizes my gear retunlrn for their life.

But all that is just a symptom of the problem.

Point and main complaint being is that every highly trafficked server had potential to be o clogged with useless items that they are abandoned till exploited or hard reset.

Players are now coping by farming smaller towns....but the small towns are not immune to what happens at NWAF or other areas either....

Eventually every area on the map would be filled with items untouched by players that they do not need. It would naturally take a long time but it would happen.

I am saying that the system as it stands now will make loot cycling or server hopping or duping about 2-4x more attractive than it currently is.

P.s. who is dumb enough to climb a ladder at NWAF ?