THE PVP QUESTION- fixed with earned perks!!!

[kumiiyo 11]

I've seen many people attempt to address the PVP problem by suggesting making ammo/guns/food/etc. VERY scarce. here is my disagreement with that idea and an alternative that will hopefully cure this problem AND make the game more fun and engaging!

Here is one argument for the scarcity idea so you can see what I mean:

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=23578

when you make weapons/ammo/food/EVERYTHING super scarce, then the first guy to get a gun will STILL kill everyone to take their already scarce shit-- and they can't defend themselves.

that's what we're seeing now. 1.7.1.2 was basically everything you said, but the zombies were more kooky. couldn't find shit, no guns, no food, constant bleeding and broken legs ending the game for ppl...... and the snipers. the snipers killed everyone.

To people already stacked with gear, there is no incentive to gather new teammates, and with everything going apeshit on the ground, one of the only things left to do in the game is to climb the factory and pop newbies. you're sure as hell not gonna go down to the firestation with your DMR and offer people assistance! the second they get a hatchet they'll kill you for your gear when your back is turned.

i believe it's not making gear scarce that's gonna fix the pvp problem, but maybe there could be some sort of XP meter for good or bad deeds u do- like healing ppl, giving or stealing, or killing bandits or others. all this affects your alignemnt (LIKE DnD--> lawful good, chaotic neutral, etc) and that in turn affects some perks and stuff u can do with certian items ( similar to BORDERLANDS. ) of course when you die you'd START AT THE BOTTTOM AGAIN.

SOME EXAMPLE PERKS:

- if ur not an asshole and u help ppl with meds and transfusions, maybe u get a trickling health gain, or a -20% chance to break a leg or bleed.

-if u save others from zombie deaths, u could get reduced damage vs. zombies, or something else cool like a -x% chance to bleed or break legs. (this would get counted by killing an aggro'd zombie that is not near you, but is near another survivor)

-also zombie group kills- if you slaughter a bunch of zombies with a crew of dudes around you, the loot taken from the zombies gets sweeter based on how many ppl u got and how many zombies u killed.

zeds could drop: shitty pistols, ammo, morphine, EVEN BLOOD (if u got enough guys and the slaughter was epic enough)

I noticed that in 1.7.1.5, food has started to be dropped by zombies. this is a good evolution, and could be continued with the above suggestion.

-if u kill bandits, u coulld get perks like silent movement, or like -5% damage taken vs bandits, but +20% damage vs survivors (to ensure u dont abuse this skill)

-you could get a 'SURVIVALIST' bonus by surviving a bandit encounter and escaping (whether u kill him or not) and get like a HUD warning when someone is aiming at you, or again some sort of health trickle bonus.

-there also might be something you could earn to enable you to see other player's kill stats (similar to how the rangefinder works.) like you can see zombies/murders/bandits killed above hteir head or something.

THERE COULD BE BANDIT PERKS TOO!

- silent movement for hatchet kills

- snare traps gained by slaughtering zombies alone

-actually FUCK BANDITS they can think of their own damn perks.

i think this is an idea.

inb4 "COD wahhh"

inb4 "THIZ GAME IZ GUUD U JUST SUK"

inb4 "crawl moar"

inb4 "op can't inb4"

constructive criticism, boys and girls.

TL;DR:

TL;DR:

TL;DR: give players perk/skill bonuses for teamwork but also give perks to bandits for kills or other bandit activities. this would encourage teamwork and make the game more engaging.

proposals:

-perks for transfusions and bandaging ( -X% chance of leg breaks or bleeding or KO's)

-etc for other activites (read above.)

[DevilDog (DayZ) 455]

I don't mind and support anything that makes bandits and helpful survivors different; BUT not something that hurts a bandit and/or helps a survivor. Maybe the more infusions you give the better you get at infusions, same with bandaging others. That is good for everyone.

[BL1P 252]

needs a tl;dr

sorry m8

[kumiiyo 11]

needs a tl;dr

sorry m8

gotcha-->

tl;dr: give players perk/skill bonuses for teamwork but also give perks to bandits for kills or other bandit activities. this would encourage teamwork and make the game more engaging.

proposals:

-perks for transfusions and bandaging ( -X% chance of leg breaks or bleeding or KO's)

-etc for other activites (read above.)

[duddbudda 33]

so you're saying there should be artificial rewards for not being a dick?

what about the half a hundred real benefits that teammates bring?

cf this thread

I know you're not saying that being nice is the only thing that earns perks, but your focus is clearly on reducing your chance of being shot

[kumiiyo 11]

sandy- im not exactly saying there's NO incentive to teamplay right now, i'm saying there isn't enough. I'm all about teamwork and team building and that's the way i like to play, so i'm just thinking about ways to encourage OTHERS to want to teamplay.

like the perks system would make ppl SEEK OUT bandaging others and giving blood transfusions, rather than only doing it for a trade or if u need it.

i dono, it's just an idea. this game has so much potential to be VERY COOL, and right now its future is in danger of falling off. if you read up on what people are thinking of this game outside the dayz forums, there are MANY criticicisms of the PVP environment detracting from the zombieness of the game. all we're trying to do here is offer ideas to the DEV team in order to help them make a game we all want to play, lone wolfs, bandits, and survivors together in a balance that makes it fun for everyone.

[zipper 69]

I've seen many people attempt to address the PVP problem

There isn't a PvP problem. The only problem is you think there is a PvP problem.

You all want to encourage people to play in a group? Lead by example. Get a group of people and stick together. More people will follow.

You are trying to balance a game that starts you off with nothing, against great odds, and your success is completely dependent on how you choose to survive in a completely open world. Everyone has access to all the same gear. Everyone can go to all the same places. Everyone can use the same vehicles. Your survival is based on the choices you make. If you think there is a PvP problem, you are making the wrong choices.

You want people to seek others out and offer medical help? There is a giant group of people that do this already. There's a huge post on the forums advertising their assistance if it is needed. http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=4581

People play the game how they want. If you want to play the game a certain way, you need to figure out how you need to play the game in order to play like that. How you play doesn't always go hand in hand with how you want to play.

I highly suggest you read this thread to find your missing "incentives" to teamwork.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=10189

[johan (DayZ) 21]

Lead by example as above. There's no real issue with PvP and to screw over people who want to play the game in their own way is very selfish, using perks to weaken them in unrealistic manners.

Create a TS server, do something constructive like make a thread about starting up a clan that plays along your vision and advertise it to get more people like you into it.

There's lots of teamwork out there and a lot of teams that PvP because they want to, not because they aren't able to, as witnessed by the fact that they play as a team.

[leomentheus 0]

.

Edited March 2, 2022 by leomentheus

[herd 69]

already proposed countless times:

- if you help survivors and kill bandits you gain a military skin.

- if you kill the good military guys or survivors you gain the bandit skin. Make it fair so that several killing are required to become a bandit OR better doing over, say, 40k of blood damage.

- if you are a bandit killing other bandits or healing survivors / militaries will turn you into survivor.

- you may find a ghilli suite and disguise yourself, but noone will know who you are and will probably shoot you. But you can still wear it saying you are a survivor.

Basically the old system with improvements . Simple as that. I really like. Rocket didnt. Too bad.

[zipper 69]

People really need to stop coming up with ideas to try and "fix the PvP problem".

There isn't one. It is all in your head.

[kumiiyo 11]

come on guys, saying there is no PVP problem is as unrealistic as saying that there is no problems with the zombie behavior and LOS at the moment.

and yes, there are many studly gents that are working for the community in a positive way, but that isn't the issue here.

the issue is people who kill rampantly BECAUSE THEY CAN. some aargue that this is realistic because people would do this in a zombie apocalypse, but in fact it is not becasue people dont have a CONSCIENCE that affects video games like it does in real life (ok some do but eh).

and also, fuck you johan for calling me selfish. as i said, this is only a suggestion to a problem that MANY people are voicing opinions about. and dont talk to me about LOLREALISM in dayz. eliminating 99% of the morphine on the map and then making leg breaks happen when u glytch thru a wall and fall off a bldg or, randomly break one crawling in a field at 12000 blood is absolute bullshit.

my concern here isn't the experienced players who join TS groups and fight for the righteous, its for the noobs that haven't even gotten that far or met anybody cool like that to give them advice cuz they just get shot all the time. seriously when the focuz of a ZOMBIE SURVIVAL GAME is actually running and hiding from other players and dodging bullets, something is wrong.

---

already proposed countless times:

- if you help survivors and kill bandits you gain a military skin.

- if you kill the good military guys or survivors you gain the bandit skin. Make it fair so that several killing are required to become a bandit OR better doing over' date=' say, 40k of blood damage.

- if you are a bandit killing other bandits or healing survivors / militaries will turn you into survivor.

- you may find a ghilli suite and disguise yourself, but noone will know who you are and will probably shoot you. But you can still wear it saying you are a survivor.

Basically the old system with improvements . Simple as that. I really like. Rocket didnt. Too bad.

[/quote']

this is a good idea, man.

[TheProphecy 33]

I will agree that there is a PvP problem, although it's not nearly as bad as the whiners make it seem. I do not agree with your perk based solution, however. I believe the PvP problem stems from a couple of things that can easily be fixed.

1. Military loot - There's too much of it, and I don't know how anyone could deny it. Remove military loot spawns from fire houses and deer stands. Lower the spawn rate of all other military loot spawns by 50% or so.

2. Giving players a reason to explore - Right now, we have 0 reason to run around in a forest other than the hope of finding a group's camp. The fix is simple. Use a crashed helicopter-like event that drops supplies not only in forests, but around the entire map. Threads have been made suggesting loot washing up on shore, crashed food trucks/ambulances/military vehicles/boats, etc.

Also in this category would be giving players a reason to go into small towns. Small towns are a waste of map space right now. It's been said in many topics, but just add some loot spawns on the road/in front of buildings. This way, if someone is looking to hit up a town for food/water, they don't have to bypass 3-4 small towns in order to hit a medium/large town.

3. Give geared players something to do - So, here's a situation that many players find themselves in. I have a good gun, plenty of ammo and food/water/medical supplies. I don't need to hit up NWA/NEA/deer stands or Stary unless I want to hoard loot and put it in a tent. If I don't want to hoard, I can either wander aimlessly in search of a vehicle, run around the wilderness and enjoy the view or go and kill people. Killing people seems to be the popular mindset of most players. Give geared players something to do and you'll see less DMR wielding clowns sniping freshly spawned players near Cap Golova.

To recap: Less military loot floating around means more time finding it, which in turn means less geared players hunting people down in Cherno/Elektro. More loot spawns in small towns and random events across the map means less geared players hunting people down in Cherno/Elektro. Giving geared players more reasons to stay away from Cherno/Elektro is self explanatory.

[kumiiyo 11]

yo prophecy- these are all really good suggestions as well- if u make military loot less common but still replace it with shotguns n stuff, maybe the pvp thing will be less intense but ppl will still enjoy having guns.

[herd 69]

I will agree that there is a PvP problem' date=' although it's not nearly as bad as the whiners make it seem. I do not agree with your perk based solution, however. I believe the PvP problem stems from a couple of things that can easily be fixed.

1. Military loot - There's too much of it, and I don't know how anyone could deny it. Remove military loot spawns from fire houses and deer stands. Lower the spawn rate of all other military loot spawns by 50% or so.

[/quote']

YES ! GOLDEN WORDS! Ohhh wait, NOT ! Making gear even more rare will leave 99% of players with makarovs and clans/admins with ultra gear.

They already posses ALL the vehicles. Now you want only THEM to have all the high gear ?

There should be MORE weapons. Not fewer.

[kumiiyo 11]

roboserg- what is your opinion on admins having vehicle advantages?

[TheProphecy 33]

YES ! GOLDEN WORDS! Ohhh wait' date=' NOT ! Making gear even more rare will leave 99% of players with makarovs and clans/admins with ultra gear.

They already posses ALL the vehicles. Now you want only THEM to have all the high gear ?

There should be MORE weapons. Not fewer.

[/quote']

So instead of stopping these instances of blatant abuse, you're solution is to say, "fuck it, just give everybody more guns." Brilliant.

[zipper 69]

Tell me then, what exactly is the PvP problem? You being shot on sight? You pose a threat to the person that you stumble upon. They have no idea what your intentions are, they do not know if you are there to kill them, so they are defending themselves.

Bandits are a real thing. How you think this wouldn't apply if a real apocalypse happened boggles my mind. Gangs already exist in the world, and there are already some places you can go to in major cities where you can be shot on sight for any number of reasons. Some are just groups of people forming together, others are some of the most cutthroat people in the world. They do not care about you. This mimics the shoot on sight "problem" perfectly.

PvP is not a problem. Why you guys keep saying this I don't know. If you find yourself constantly being shot, you need to re-evaluate what it is you are doing. If you spawn on the edge of Electro, instead of running into Electro, go the other way. Stop running straight into towns without observing activity in the town first. If you don't, you are bound to find someone and get shot.

Those of you that think that PvP is a problem would be among the 99% of people who would have become infected if something like this ever really happened. You group together with a couple people you know, and you stay together. You don't take unnecessary risks like finding everything you need to move north in a grocery store, but still wanting to check out the corner store across the street.

If you ran into another survivor who was unarmed, just asking him if he is friendly isn't going to tell you anything about him. You have to watch him and monitor his behavior. If you managed to build up a sizable camp on a server, would you take someone you had never met before straight to its location and log off leaving them there just because they said friendly once over voice chat? For all you know they could take all your gear/vehicles, and destroy whatever else was left there. You wouldn't bring a stranger there. You have to build trust among people you do not know. If you do not do this, you are just asking to get shot in the back every time you see someone.

Mind that you are playing a extremely difficult and cutthroat game based on survival. People would kill because they can in a post apocalyptic world, there is nothing to punish them for doing so. They aren't going to go to jail. If anything they are gaining something out of it because they know it is one less person they have to worry about. So again, for those of you who think there is a PvP problem, what exactly is the problem? You are trying to establish rules in a world where no rules exist. What you currently see as wrong, could be completely changed through an event as traumatic as a zombie apocalypse. In order for you to be completely immersed, you have to accept the storyline/events given to you in a game. It is no different from when you go watch a movie or read a book based in a fantasy world. The sooner you accept the PvP aspect of DayZ, the more enjoyable your experience will be.

You say there is a PvP problem within DayZ. I say there is a lack of people who know how to minimize their risks. DayZ has a pretty steep learning curve, but that is what makes the game so fun. There is not a PvP problem in the game. People just have no idea how to build trust amongst each other. Stop posting about your mistakes and start learning from them. If you do this, the only person who will be mad is Rocket, because the average life expectancy will start to go up again.

TL;DR - Stop being surprised every time you are shot on sight, and start being surprised when you meet someone who doesn't.

[Ada069 0]

- if ur not an asshole and u help ppl with meds and transfusions, maybe u get a trickling health gain, or a -20% chance to break a leg or bleed.

As I state above, I am in a gaming community. We do this anyway to anyone we actually talk to and know. This doesn't really do anything but increase the amount of people wanting to exploit this feature.

-if u save others from zombie deaths, u could get reduced damage vs. zombies, or something else cool like a -x% chance to bleed or break legs. (this would get counted by killing an aggro'd zombie that is not near you, but is near another survivor)

Tbh, pretty much the same as above. It will be way to hard to code something more complex in to not abuse or exploit this suggestion. And if you ARE IN A COMMUNITY then this is already a given when you have teammates to help you out.

-also zombie group kills- if you slaughter a bunch of zombies with a crew of dudes around you, the loot taken from the zombies gets sweeter based on how many ppl u got and how many zombies u killed.

zeds could drop: shitty pistols, ammo, morphine, EVEN BLOOD (if u got enough guys and the slaughter was epic enough)

I noticed that in 1.7.1.5, food has started to be dropped by zombies. this is a good evolution, and could be continued with the above suggestion.

Or just join a gaming community where you can go into places and take loot from cities and towns. I can understand Pistols dropping on Military/Police zombies but why on earth would any citizen zombie have morphine or blood on them (unless Cheraus is a Vampire Plagued Drug abused destination?)

-if u kill bandits, u coulld get perks like silent movement, or like -5% damage taken vs bandits, but +20% damage vs survivors (to ensure u dont abuse this skill)

This really doesn't help. I personally approach with a 'I will shoot on sight with anyone who doesn't announce themselves before hand' I have been shot when I gave someone an epi-pen to wake them up. Fact is, you don't know who the player is. If I had sweet gear and killed a bandit but let a civillian go free. What indication does it give me that that civillian isn't just a respawned bandit who is looking for someone like me to kill.

-you could get a 'SURVIVALIST' bonus by surviving a bandit encounter and escaping (whether u kill him or not) and get like a HUD warning when someone is aiming at you, or again some sort of health trickle bonus.

I can see many servers crashing

-there also might be something you could earn to enable you to see other player's kill stats (similar to how the rangefinder works.) like you can see zombies/murders/bandits killed above hteir head or something.

This will probably end up failing. Why?

Because the aiming thing is already exploited for finding people.

And if you got close enough to someone to see these stats, if it is a bandit, you'd be dead.

1. Military loot - There's too much of it, and I don't know how anyone could deny it. Remove military loot spawns from fire houses and deer stands. Lower the spawn rate of all other military loot spawns by 50% or so.

How does this help?. So the best loot is not only the barracks at the NW airfield but also the hangers their too. So it makes the game more narrow then expensive. The fact you can find the mid range weapons at these places it what keeps the game in balance as it doesn't require players to go to the NW airfield.

2. Giving players a reason to explore - Right now, we have 0 reason to run around in a forest other than the hope of finding a group's camp. The fix is simple. Use a crashed helicopter-like event that drops supplies not only in forests, but around the entire map. Threads have been made suggesting loot washing up on shore, crashed food trucks/ambulances/military vehicles/boats, etc

How does this give anyone a reason to explore then the game already gives?. I woulden't go searching in a forest for loot and gear where I know their is some place that actually gives it. I don't go searching for crash helicopters. I usually find them on my way to a destination. And adding this in wouldn't change that factor.

3. Give geared players something to do - So, here's a situation that many players find themselves in. I have a good gun, plenty of ammo and food/water/medical supplies. I don't need to hit up NWA/NEA/deer stands or Stary unless I want to hoard loot and put it in a tent. If I don't want to hoard, I can either wander aimlessly in search of a vehicle, run around the wilderness and enjoy the view or go and kill people. Killing people seems to be the popular mindset of most players. Give geared players something to do and you'll see less DMR wielding clowns sniping freshly spawned players near Cap Golova.

This is, infact a statement. You have no suggestions to this point?

I disagree entirely with anyone who says their is a PVP problem

If you try and defame the PVP then the game will become stale.

Dayz isn't Diablo 3, It isn't WoW and it isn't spongebob square pants. It's all about thinking and strategy. The game is hard, It isn't about holding hands together. The PVP element is the best thing about the game so far. It creates fear and paranoia about where people are. I can't tell you how scared I've been to hear shots from behind. And I've died from them too. They get my heart racing badly to be in a firefight.

Get rid of PVP or nerfing bandits will degrade the game to being the same as others and it will be a disgusting thing to give survivors perks when being in a group is already a major perk.

This is an OPEN-WORLD-SANDBOX-ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE SURVIVAL-PVP and anything to change that will make the game the same as other games.

"But the weapons are overpowered, Lets make them less powered and Zombies more harder"

Problem: this game turns into a WoW or Diablo 3. And it's just repeating itself over and over again. I will lose interest in it, and I will even send an email off to BI to demand my money returned as I got Arma2 for Dayz. This game is unique, and I don't see the point of trying to make it like other games and turn into a dungeon crawling 'lets horde loot' deal. PVP is the ultimate experience of Dayz. You get shot, You lose it all, You don't know who did it. It gives you Paranoia. The community I play with are dicks to each other and constantly fire each others weapons behind each other because it literally scares the crap out of you.

"But players are camping spots so people can't move out"

I have been shot more times in an open field running to a location then I have within 5KM of my spawn point. The point isn't well validated. Their are plenty of servers to choose from to get out of the spawn area.

"Sick of getting shot by people all the time"

Thats why their are gaming groups. I come to Dayz from a Counterstrike gaming community and we join up together. Their are plenty of Dayz gaming community's out there to have fun with and play with. Bandits don't often go after a group of players. And the larger your community the more chance of them helping you out with guns/ect.

"I got shot at NW airfield with my FN Fal nightscope and 6 clips of ammo, nightvision, My SD pistol with 4 clips of ammo and all the rest of my gear"

Why would you go to the NW airfield with good gear?

I have started a few times without a pistol as you do now and survived easily enough, finding a weapon and such. If you can't survive long enough perhaps it's time you actually thought things through before making an attempt at it. And join a dayz community dedicated to working together. Makes life simple.

[Ginger Beard 0]

I agree military gear needs to be fixed. Its just too easy to find military guns. They spawn in too many places. Making them rare means players will not fear each other as much or have a reason to kill each other as much. Because most players will have the not so good civilian guns. Obviously some people will continue to pvp. Thats fine but it will bring back the balance betweeb pvp and coop again. As for the argument against this where clans have all the gear. Wipe all characters. This is alpha, we need to be prepared to test things and accept our gear isnt permanent. You spent 10 hours looking for all that ammo you stockpiled? Too bad, your an alpha tester. Deal with it.

Oh and perks....nah too gamey.

[TheProphecy 33]

@Ada

1. In what world does it make any sort of sense to find high powered military weapons at a fire station? You should find common weapons like the Winchester there, nothing more. As for deer stands, if you want to leave the ability to spawn mid-level guns like an AK, I guess that's alright, but again, why does it make sense to find high powered military weapons there? Also, most PvP whiners complain about getting killed near the coast, not in an area where you find military gear. I already mentioned how more time spent finding something like a DMR = less time sniping respawners at Cap Golova, but I guess you didn't get that.

2. The area would be lit up with flares or something, making it visible and not just like finding a needle in a haystack. And this went hand-in-hand with the idea to add more loot to small towns. There's no reason to go to a town like Orlovets, Shakhovka, Tulga, etc. By increasing loot spawns in those areas (or at least making them easier to get to), players would go there and the surrounding area, where the random forest drops come into play.

3. IDK, a compound off in the woods somewhere guarded by military NPC's. The soldiers themselves have mid to high level weapons and then they could be guarding something like a vehicle that doesn't spawn anywhere else. That's just an idea, but the overall concept is common sense. Give people more to do and they'll do it.