Dev Position on firearm realism and Regular vs Hardcore.

[AP_Norris 1018]

First I want to say this is not meant to be a dig at any player base.

I feel since the start of the SA though that the "Authenticity" the dev team is heading for is cutting away at the part of the community looking for immersion & realism.

So I am here to propose that we start seeing some design differences between Hardcore & Regular, I think the Hardcore players appreciate immersion a lot so I think a tune up in realism would go appreciated by most hardcore players.

While I feel regular players are less bothered by all this and maybe likes the way the game works with third person, ammo and pace (please feel free to correct me).

So my first problem with the game as a guy looking for realism is the guns, all the pistols are extremely inaccurate (except the longhorn), the ammo is generalised slightly, you can instantly load guns in your inventory and magazines also (which doesn't penalise those unprepared very much at all).

I have put a poll up to get the general consensus here.

Please feel free to comment I will be back in about 12hrs to respond (I may have been a bit Bias in poll wordings, you'll be able to pick up on my preference anyway)

If you feel I've missed a big part of the community in the poll please discuss, and I will be back to maybe copy & paste a new option in there.

Edit: oh I forgot to put my example of generalised rounds, e.g guns like the mosin do not have their proper rounds in the game, they fire 7.62x51 NATO instead of 7.62x54R I personally feel like specific rounds for a weapons should be hard to come by and generalising rounds in my opinion makes the game more simple than what I have come to expect from DayZ. This is after all the anti game, and I think it should reflect that in terms of difficulty and complication.

Edited July 12, 2014 by AP_Norris

[Element47 2481]

i think you confuse 'realism' with 'difficulty'. at least in the poll options.

 

i think its remarkable how selective the calls for realism are.

 

for example, i dont see people demand, that the state of sickness (for example from unboiled water) will cause random cramps and diarrhea, effectively removing your ability for combat. if we spin this discussion further, it is easily understandable, that we cannot model the real world perfectly. we have contraints of the medium, and we have contrainst of usability and accessibility. oh, and fun.

 

so we presumably can agree that we have to compromise as to what aspects can be modeled after its real-life counterparts, and to what extent. Realism and authencity in video games describe how credible, believable certain aspects are, how close they 'feel' to our perception of the real world. And every individual has his own perception of what is "real". 

 

in dayz, finding a decades-old gun, then having to scavenge for sufficiently rare ammo that fits chamber - and not into the revolver or assault rifle - is believable, it is contextually authentic. it doesnt matter what the exact gun model it is, and what exact ammo variant it is, as long as it remains within believable constraints.

Edited July 12, 2014 by e47

[Zombie Milkman 167]

The best part about realism is the first thing people will do is hunt hoarders.  If you can't find more than a can of beans a day, some guy with a shopping cart full of them in a small shed far away from any buildings becomes a really juicy target.

Edited July 12, 2014 by Zombie Milkman

[Hicks_206 (DayZ) 4297]

There is a line between realism, and authenticity. We will constantly lean back and forth on that line depending on how it effects the over all design, player experience, and basic fun factor.
In addition, this is not DayZ - this is a development build. Nearly nothing is currently working as intended by the design of the project as an overall. Placeholder systems, bugs, and pillars that have just not been created yet. 

 

Concern over stuff like this can be valid at the earliest, in the beta phase of our early access. Until then, its just not worth getting worked up over. :)

[Shrub Rocketeer ™ 879]

keep real the game no more cartoon life please I find cartoon in other game like call of duty and rust

make this one special not like other game don't mayke half real half cartoon because you have after all of nothing game

[Parazight 1599]

What Hicks said.

 

Also, your poll is terrible.  The third option in the first question doesn't make sense and all the choices for the second question are way too specific and don't relate to one another hardly at all.  I didn't even bother to choose.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

First I want to say this is not meant to be a dig at any player base.

I feel since the start of the SA though that the "Authenticity" the dev team is heading for is cutting away at the part of the community looking for immersion & realism.

So I am here to propose that we start seeing some design differences between Hardcore & Regular, I think the Hardcore players appreciate immersion a lot so I think a tune up in realism would go appreciated by most hardcore players.

While I feel regular players are less bothered by all this and maybe likes the way the game works with third person, ammo and pace (please feel free to correct me).

So my first problem with the game as a guy looking for realism is the guns, all the pistols are extremely inaccurate (except the longhorn), the ammo is generalised slightly, you can instantly load guns in your inventory and magazines also (which doesn't penalise those unprepared very much at all).

I have put a poll up to get the general consensus here.

Please feel free to comment I will be back in about 12hrs to respond (I may have been a bit Bias in poll wordings, you'll be able to pick up on my preference anyway)

If you feel I've missed a big part of the community in the poll please discuss, and I will be back to maybe copy & paste a new option in there.

Edit: oh I forgot to put my example of generalised rounds, e.g guns like the mosin do not have their proper rounds in the game, they fire 7.62x51 NATO instead of 7.62x54R I personally feel like specific rounds for a weapons should be hard to come by and generalising rounds in my opinion makes the game more simple than what I have come to expect from DayZ. This is after all the anti game, and I think it should reflect that in terms of difficulty and complication.

Could you at least pretend to offer objective options when you create a poll? your options are biased by your personal opinion.

[AP_Norris 1018]

There is a line between realism, and authenticity. We will constantly lean back and forth on that line depending on how it effects the over all design, player experience, and basic fun factor.

In addition, this is not DayZ - this is a development build. Nearly nothing is currently working as intended by the design of the project as an overall. Placeholder systems, bugs, and pillars that have just not been created yet. 

 

Concern over stuff like this can be valid at the earliest, in the beta phase of our early access. Until then, its just not worth getting worked up over. :)

Well, thanks for taking the time to post.

I really appreciate it, and I always guess that if at the very end of development dayZ still isn't perfect for me that there's always mods.

[AP_Norris 1018]

Could you at least pretend to offer objective options when you create a poll? your options are biased by your personal opinion.

did this require quoting my entire post? Also if you bothered to read it you'd see me mention I may be biased.

If you want me to change something for the better please specify.

[AP_Norris 1018]

What Hicks said.

 

Also, your poll is terrible.  The third option in the first question doesn't make sense and all the choices for the second question are way too specific and don't relate to one another hardly at all.  I didn't even bother to choose.

They were examples of the sort of realism/ gameplay you liked.

What would you have me change? Would a general statement before it then putting e.g help?

Also not sure how my first question doesn't make sense.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

did this require quoting my entire post? Also if you bothered to read it you'd see me mention I may be biased.

If you want me to change something for the better please specify.

My main issue is that your second poll lump a lot of statements together as if they where part of the same idea, i can't really vote on this because i only agree to some of the enumerated elements of each statement.

 

Why not a multiple checkbox poll type wih each element being its own option/ this way people can cherry pick what they like and what they don't?

Edited July 13, 2014 by Lady Kyrah

[AP_Norris 1018]

Will take the time to srt things out soon.

[gibonez 3633]

Realistic everything.

 

For those that say this is not balanced just refer to real life. Real life balances itself.

[Lithium1056 45]

I do believe the mosin round is an oversight.

I think however I should point out the oracle project is producing a 3rd person camera I. Real life and over all this is a survival simulator yes the guns should be more accurate, but the game is after all in alpha. Sure your poll is bias but that's ok I do feel it's not broad enough though.

The biggest problem is the engine, you can only get away with spawning so much at once while accommodating for 40 people geared down to the nines,

Switching the 51's to the 54R's wouldn't be a big deal. But realism is a dual edged blade. It also not required for immersion, it seems like it is in alpha but what else do we have but to nitpick when "end game" takes roughly an hour to reach in alpha, "90%" of players KoS and role playing is about as easy as starting a fire on the bottom of the ocean.

Also a variance in round isn't "realism" that's in accuracy. That terrible accuracy in hand guns is about right. Pistols are close quarters guns "also the long horn is technically a rifle) and it's one of the few features that I think a skill modifier should've applied to. Joe Schmo wouldn't be able to hit the broadside of a barn the first time he picked up a hand gun. Firearms skill should go up with use.

Ammo loading, loading a round into a Chamber is well about as fast as, right click, hover, click, loaded. Magazines well, I can understand wanting a slight delay on the other hand I'd rather find a gun with an empty magazine then a full magazine across the map from where I found the gun. (That's one of the few things that bugs me. "Shits zombies attacking better scatter my magazines around just incase I need to die!")

However I can load my .45 magazine irl fairly quickly but I've been doing it awhile.

As far as the over all game it's a survival simulator with zombies and assholes. Take those out and you don't even need guns.

Honestly it's alpha, I'd say just give it time.