Movement controls detrimental to gameplay in 0.47 patch

[TEST_SUBJECT_83 465]

You can sprint with a gun aimed ILR right?

Your aim will be horrible but we can still do it.

I say let us have the option to run and strafe while aiming, at least from the hip.

ADS while running doesn't make sense to me, but having the option to spray down some cover fire while running seems like an option we should have.

Edited July 5, 2014 by TEST_SUBJECT_83

[Ninja_Meh 115]

I haven't noticed any change regarding what you said from .46 to .47. Were the players really slowed down?

 

Nothing to do with the changes in question.

 

Why does everyone jump to this conclusion? It's like you guys run out of valid arguments and go to the b.s. "counter strike" accusations. I only want movement to be fluid and make sense. If weapons/ballistics are handled properly, this should never result in a counter-strike/UT type game.

 

I DEFINITELY think that in general, movement should be slowed. I cannot wait for a more robust endurance system that prevents you from sprinting across the map. Not only is it unrealistic, but it hinders gameplay. However, I should not need to stand up before sprinting anymore than you have to think about standing up before sprinting in real life. You just do it.

this topic is so frustrating to have with people when the arguments you get back are things like GO BACK TO COD and stuff, i hate FPS games in general, and as i said just now, this is one of the only ones i own. iv made feedback thread here, and one over at reddit, which got quite a bit of discussion on it since yesterday, and after linking the dev to it and the feedback tracker on his twitter, earlier today he said that a lot of the problems bought up were bugs that were unintended from the actual changes made, and that also the team were keeping a close eye on the feedback the players were discussing for ways to look to make the best changes to movement possible.

 

 

all in all eventually we will have a weight system (hopefully) which in turn will have big impacts on the fatigue system which will no doubt be implemented also. what gets me is why when bugs that are just outright clearly not meant to be in game get blind defense by some people who think they ADD to the game when they clearly just make the game more cumbersome where it shouldnt be. lol :P

[Ninja_Meh 115]

You can sprint with a gun aimed ILR right?

Your aim will be horrible but we can still do it.

I say let us have the option to run and strafe while aiming, at least from the hip.

ADS while running doesn't make sense to me, but having the option to spray down some cover fire while running seems like an option we should have.

agreed dude, on thing i pointed out in my reddit on this topic is that, if anything right clicking to ADS should be the one thing that makes your character walk while aiming, raising your weapon to shoulder should definitely NOT bring your toon to a walking pace, that is just pointless and restrictive and not at all how things work in real life. the best way to penalise people with guns who do a lot of sprinting is to make the weapon sway worse the more you run around and take longer to steady after longer periods of running, making movement a chore will just push people away from the game, a few people in the reddit post literally said the changes had made them not want to play the build anymore after a few hours wrestling with the changes. On the plus side Viktor already said a lot of the problems are down to bugs and are not how he intended the changes to affect movement

[solodude23 649]

this topic is so frustrating to have with people when the arguments you get back are things like GO BACK TO COD and stuff, i hate FPS games in general, and as i said just now, this is one of the only ones i own. iv made feedback thread here, and one over at reddit, which got quite a bit of discussion on it since yesterday, and after linking the dev to it and the feedback tracker on his twitter, earlier today he said that a lot of the problems bought up were bugs that were unintended from the actual changes made, and that also the team were keeping a close eye on the feedback the players were discussing for ways to look to make the best changes to movement possible.

Yeah, I almost never had a doubt in my mind that these changes had to be, for the most part, due to a bugs. After the great improvement to movement that .46 brought I couldn't believe that what happened in 0.47 could be intentional. I can't even believe people think that 0.46 was "unreal tournament/counter-strike" style because it was far from it.

 

all in all eventually we will have a weight system (hopefully) which in turn will have big impacts on the fatigue system which will no doubt be implemented also. what gets me is why when bugs that are just outright clearly not meant to be in game get blind defense by some people who think they ADD to the game when they clearly just make the game more cumbersome where it shouldnt be. lol :P

No kidding. You don't force awkward movements in order to make a game more realistic, you give the freedom of fluid movement with penalties in terms of aiming and fatigue.

[Irish. 4886]

You're not going away on this one are you? 

 

 

nope. still here.

[Ninja_Meh 115]

 

PPS.

 

Then don't walk around with gun when shots ring around you but start sprinting?

 

Oh wait, you want to sprint Unreal Tournament or Counter-Strike style?

Havent played counter strike or unreal tournament, so i wouldnt know what your trying to imply by that. but EVEN in call of duty (which i played once or twice over the years) when you sprint you lower your gun, and cannot even shoot until you stop sprinting, thing is, you dont have to wrestle with the controls to go from aiming by hip or down your sights to sprint, you just use the sprint control and it does what it should, same as dayz DID about 3-4 days ago. its cool anyway im pretty sure the dev is working to fix it as i mentioned he already said these issues are mainly unintended bugs :)

[Ninja_Meh 115]

You're not going away on this one are you? 

 

^^^^^^ i swear thats KUNG POW best film EVAR

 

nope. still here.

THAT GIF XD that is like literally how ninja i think i am when im in game especially, ill be standing there all dressed in bright colours with a huge ass bag a massive bayonet equipped gun on my back and another rifle in hand, and ill be there like, no one can see me cos my name is ninjah, ill be fine, ^^^^^^ loving that gif, and yes sir you are correct, im not going anywhere anytime soon, i just went into a server for another 4 hours this afternoon to see if the controls had a way of feeling any better after a bit of time not using them, only to be like NAH THESE SUCK, only to then see the dev had read a lot of the feedback in the topics created and also said they are finding good feedback within the threads :) occasionally feedback threads can be made where everyone (for the most part) doesnt try to make it a pissing contest, but instead use reasoning and examples of how they feel their opinions relate to a game change :P

Edited July 5, 2014 by Ninja_Meh

[yorkmorgan 191]

I actually love the new controls and combined with the weapon dexterity and new crawl animation i'm really happy with the movement in 0.47.

I think that it's much more fun fighting players who cannot 'slide' all over the place with their weapon raised or run in madly tight circles that would cause dizzying centrifugal forces while swinging a large axe. You can still move at a decent pace with your weapon raised if you double tap w. It is more janky than before but thats too its merit, moving around with a large rifle and backpack SHOULD be a bit janky, its difficult to do!

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Giggle, snicker.  I knew it would happen one day.  Can't wait till they tone down the game speed.  Watch as these forums light up from all the twitch players going bonkers about not being about to wallrunnoscope360headshot anymore.  slight exaggeration

[solodude23 649]

Giggle, snicker.  I knew it would happen one day.  Can't wait till they tone down the game speed.  Watch as these forums light up from all the twitch players going bonkers about not being about to wallrunnoscope360headshot anymore.  slight exaggeration

This is just the kind of constructive argument we need. Oh wait - this isn't constructive at all. Edited July 6, 2014 by solodude23

[frosti 2165]

This is just the kind of constructive argument we need. Oh wait - this isn't constructive at all.

 

It was. Just too deep for you.

[chompster 171]

0.47 movement is a real double edged sword. It's for the better of PvP imo, but also makes the PvE frustrating and even more clunky than arma 2 controls..

Though i dont mind it for the guns, it's unbelievably frustrating and dumb when it comes to melee weapons. Unless i'm doing something wrong, all you can do when you have a raised melee weapon is walk slowly(making you an easy target for EVERYTHING) or sprint full speed when you double tab W and having to stop take a swing and run again.

Very Unintuitive and clunky.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Chompster

[Mark Darkers 151]

But I like the new movement in .47

 

Specially the crawling.

I agree, the crawling is done very well, realistic movemend, normal flat sneaking on belly, with shift= faster on the elbows. Also the run and gun is finally gone, you have to think before doing something. And its not that bad, you can always have a semi fast jog with the weapon raised and shift, you can even jog while ADS, if you want the run, simply lower the gun, I think they have put some good thinking in this new movement system and it really paid off.

 

edit: Although for melee weapons, it kinda sucks, because running and shopping zeds with an axe is fun and convenient. Which is now not possible any more.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Mark Darkers

[frosti 2165]

 

edit: Although for melee weapons, it kinda sucks, because running and shopping zeds with an axe is fun and convenient. Which is now not possible any more.

 

Being able to sprint while chopping everything with axe was neat but it also was overpowered and super annoying in PvP. Specially when you meet some axe man that was also utilizing desynch/lag to chop you while sprinting around.

[Mark Darkers 151]

Being able to sprint while chopping everything with axe was neat but it also was overpowered and super annoying in PvP. Specially when you meet some axe man that was also utilizing desynch/lag to chop you while sprinting around.

Well, yea you got me there. That is completely true, but you have to admit that for pve, it was very well needed sometimes. Well you know, as with everything it is just something to get used to, something new is always a bit odd in the beginning :)

[VictorKane 638]

This sounds like interesting discussion over here :)

 

Okay, so I would like to bring some light why a what the hell...

 

Actually after we introduced so called "0.46 controls", we realized it is not as we originaly intended. The main issue with 0.47 for most of the people is the fact we took away an option to go to a full speed by one key. This will be a less of a issue after we finetune and fix bugs which occured. If you are asking why we released WIP... well simply because often updates everyone is exiced about won't allow us to spend two or three weeks doing some changes.

 

The crouch was never meant for long distance transitions. In real life it is really difficult to run in that position. Also crouch is supposed to be the stealth move. So it was just about the time to prefer walking, because you can now easily and very fast go to the stealth. As the DayZ player is not a trained soldier but a survivor (the character), the previous default aimed jog was changed to aimed walk so when you raise a gun you can precisely shoot but there is still an option to go faster.

 

There are some known issues we want to be fixed soon.

It is impossible to raise or lower a gun when sprinting. This adds a lot to the clunky feeling everyone is talking about.

The 2xW for faster movement doesn't fit well.

It is unconvenient to switch raised and lowered by spacebar.

Some animations/speeds may feel needless now.

There are missing some transitions, some animations need to be changed slightly.

 

From what I see and read, there are good arguments on both sides so obviously it is not a completely bad move the 0.47 changes. Yes it may break some gamestyles and some custom controls presets, but it will support new playstyles and encourage others. We believe the overal upcoming changes in default controlls will be for better for everyone.

[falcon1439 20]

The transition from sprinting to prone is a bit clunky, I'd love the animation to be based off the ARMA 3 animation

Edited July 7, 2014 by falcon1439

[audax 207]

The crouch was never meant for long distance transitions. In real life it is really difficult to run in that position. Also crouch is supposed to be the stealth move. So it was just about the time to prefer walking, because you can now easily and very fast go to the stealth. As the DayZ player is not a trained soldier but a survivor (the character), the previous default aimed jog was changed to aimed walk so when you raise a gun you can precisely shoot but there is still an option to go faster.

 

im sorry but i have to disagree with that,

 

let me do an example. Random KOS guy is trying to shot you, im crouching behind a little wall, and you need to  from point A to B fastest as possible without being shot.

 

so right now in the 0.47 we have two options.

 

1) you slooooooooooooooooooooowly walk crouched and the guys have all the time to flank you.

2) you stand up (takes 1 second or so for the animation) and you sprint, becoming a lighthouse for all the bullets in the area.

 

now... im a really dumb person, really really dumb e stupid without any coordination, balance etc. but i during an occasion i had a bunch of Senegalese guys that went mad because i was drinking a beer and started to throw the cobblestones of the street in my direction. guess what? i protected myself crouching behind a bench and running away keeping my siluette lower as possible. as your character does in dayz. pre 0.47

 

 

so yeah, is not exactly rocket science to do that without being an ubertrained soldier.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Edoissimo

[VictorKane 638]

1) you slooooooooooooooooooooowly walk crouched and the guys have all the time to flank you.

2) you stand up (takes 1 second or so for the animation) and you sprint, becoming a lighthouse for all the bullets in the area.

 

I agree with this. But after this points I mentioned are fixed, you should be able to do that.

 

It is impossible to raise or lower a gun when sprinting. This adds a lot to the clunky feeling everyone is talking about.

The 2xW for faster movement doesn't fit well.

It is unconvenient to switch raised and lowered by spacebar.

 

btw, there wasn't any crouch sprint in 0.46, the character always switched to stand sprint.

[chompster 171]

Arma 3 crouch sprint is definitely possible in real life and would love to see something like it. Of course only for short stretches.

But yeah, controls are heading in the right direction they just need some tweaking(especially the melee)

[solodude23 649]

 

*snip*

 

Thanks for clarification. So from what I understand crouch shouldn't have a "crouch sprint" but should instead switch to full sprint as it did in 0.46? This indeed makes more sense to me. Although I found the crouched movement to be a bit slow, that is one change I enjoyed. I also like some aspects of the new prone but couldn't the two movement speeds be toggled with the existing "walk toggle" key? That way the sprint key would still be able to transition the player to sprint without going through the "stand up" animation.

 

Also can't say I'm exactly into the new default "slow walk" ADS considering you could already do that before with the walk key. I thought the "combat pace/jogging ADS" was a better default with the ability to use the walk toggle for more precise shots. Feels odd to be forced to move at such a slow pace when you're just trying to pop a few shots off to keep your opponent's head down before moving position.

 

just like this shit thread

 

So maybe it'd be best for both the thread and yourself if you kept away from it.  ;) That way everyone's happy.

Edited July 8, 2014 by solodude23

[gibonez 3633]

Arma 3 crouch sprint is definitely possible in real life and would love to see something like it. Of course only for short stretches.

But yeah, controls are heading in the right direction they just need some tweaking(especially the melee)

 

Yea and arma 3 characters are also either special forces soldiers or regular soldiers who have not only the physical stamina and strength to move in such positions but to hold them for long periods of time.

 

Your retail working survivor would not have a clue on how to even move in such a manner much less be in shape enough to move that way for a long time.

 

I honestly wish there was no toggle weapon raising in the game we should have to press and hold space bar to raise and shoot our weapons.

[hleVqq 139]

Yea and arma 3 characters are also either special forces soldiers or regular soldiers who have not only the physical stamina and strength to move in such positions but to hold them for long periods of time.

 

Your retail working survivor would not have a clue on how to even move in such a manner much less be in shape enough to move that way for a long time.

 

I honestly wish there was no toggle weapon raising in the game we should have to press and hold space bar to raise and shoot our weapons.

How about you stop roleplaying a survivor who can't do anything?

[solodude23 649]

Yea and arma 3 characters are also either special forces soldiers or regular soldiers who have not only the physical stamina and strength to move in such positions but to hold them for long periods of time.

 

Your retail working survivor would not have a clue on how to even move in such a manner much less be in shape enough to move that way for a long time.

 

I honestly wish there was no toggle weapon raising in the game we should have to press and hold space bar to raise and shoot our weapons.

I'd like to imagine that the remaining survivors aren't as incapable as you play them out to be. If anything, the only ones left WILL be the more able bodied and fit individuals. Course that partially depends on the amount of time since the apocalypse. 

Edited July 8, 2014 by solodude23

[Briljin 102]

I love the new movement changes. More balanced and to me semi-realistic. So, yea....no.

 

If they wanted to work upon more realistic movement, they should start with the horrible jumping and falling system we currently have...