.380 ACP Coming To DayZ! [Torchia Reddit]

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I agree with making a 54r variant that is steel cased it would pretty easy to distinguish the rounds visually.

 

 

 

 

It is hardly used in any western civilian weapons and how is this a bad thing ?

It's hardly used in any civilian weapons in general. There are a few civilian guns, like the SSG-82 and a couple of AR-15 variants, but most of them are military weapons. Even then, it's heavily limited; AK-74 series, AN-94 & AK-12, RPK-74 series, and the TAR-21. TAR-21s exist in 5.56x45mm, most AK-74 variants have 5.56x45mm or 7.62x39mm equivalents, as do RPKs, and the AN-94/AK-12 are not something we really need in DayZ (they aren't even that popular in Russia.)

[gibonez 3633]

It's hardly used in any civilian weapons in general. There are a few civilian guns, like the SSG-82 and a couple of AR-15 variants, but most of them are military weapons. Even then, it's heavily limited; AK-74 series, AN-94 & AK-12, RPK-74 series, and the TAR-21. TAR-21s exist in 5.56x45mm, most AK-74 variants have 5.56x45mm or 7.62x39mm equivalents, as do RPKs, and the AN-94/AK-12 are not something we really need in DayZ (they aren't even that popular in Russia.)

 

Whats needed then ? a huge influx of western Military rifles in 5.56 ?

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Whats needed then ? a huge influx of western Military rifles in 5.56 ?

Not necessarily what I'm saying, but I'm just trying to point out that there's no need for 5.45x39mm in order to have the same kinds of guns.

 

I mean, an AK-102 isn't a western gun, but it still uses 5.56x45mm. I wouldn't be opposed to having that in-game as a high-end AK. Or they could do the AK-104, which is 7.62x39mm. Still an eastern weapon, just not firing 5.45x39mm.

My point is that we don't need 5.45x39mm to have intermediate-cartridge rifles & light machine guns, because there are equivalents in other calibers.

[gibonez 3633]

Not necessarily what I'm saying, but I'm just trying to point out that there's no need for 5.45x39mm in order to have the same kinds of guns.

 

I mean, an AK-102 isn't a western gun, but it still uses 5.56x45mm. I wouldn't be opposed to having that in-game as a high-end AK. Or they could do the AK-104, which is 7.62x39mm. Still an eastern weapon, just not firing 5.45x39mm.

My point is that we don't need 5.45x39mm to have intermediate-cartridge rifles & light machine guns, because there are equivalents in other calibers.

 

I get what you are saying.

 

Had this been set in Middle America then yea it makes sense but doesnt the Fictional Eastern European setting sorta dictate a preferance of Soviet and Russian calibers over western ones ?

 

I would argue 5.45x39 would have been far more important than 7.62x51.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I get what you are saying.

 

Had this been set in Middle America then yea it makes sense but doesnt the Fictional Eastern European setting sorta dictate a preferance of Soviet and Russian calibers over western ones ?

 

I would argue 5.45x39 would have been far more important than 7.62x51.

Probably, in a realistic scenario you wouldn't even find M4A1s. They do exist everywhere and they're certainly acceptable for the game, but the chances of actually finding one would be slim .

And you're right, from a realism standpoint you'd probably (and I say this with caution) be better off with 5.45x39mm, but from a gameplay standpoint you can do much, much more with 7.62x51mm. (Assuming you still want guns that fire the correct calibers)

There are plenty of 5.45x39 equivalents in 5.56 or 7.62x39, but you'd be much more hard pressed to find a 5.56 M60, or M14, or FN FAL, or G3, or M240, or HK-417, or PSG-1, or whatever.

 

(Yes, I know there are some things like the Ruger Mini-14 for an M14 and SA-58 Compact for an FN FAL, but they're far different from their respective guns than per say an AK-101 from an AK-74M)

Edited June 28, 2014 by Chaingunfighter

[hombrecz 832]

Shhhhhhhh. No logic. 

Only tears and flames.

 

Excuse me but what?

 

Dude im casual and even I LOVE some hard core experiences. Something greatly lacking with allot of games now a days since the passing of old NES and SEGA games.

 

Thats great. More reason not to cater to some imaginary casual player who is obviously brain dead, if he get scared of weapons with real calibers :-).

 

 

Alienating the already very much robust player base that comes from Years and Years of loyalty towards Bohemia Interactive and the Arma series some of us Since operation flashpoint only because you want to perhaps not scare off the handful of casual gamers who might jump in ?

 

Or maybe the logic behind this is that hardcore fans are already hooked in, they bought the game and now is the time to lure those who did not spend the money yet?

I ofc hope it is not like that at all. It's just that some decisions and this new hunt for attention of "casual player" is worring me.

[gibonez 3633]

Probably, in a realistic scenario you wouldn't even find M4A1s. They do exist everywhere and they're certainly acceptable for the game, but the chances of actually finding one would be slim .

And you're right, from a realism standpoint you'd probably (and I say this with caution) be better off with 5.45x39mm, but from a gameplay standpoint you can do much, much more with 7.62x51mm. (Assuming you still want guns that fire the correct calibers)

There are plenty of 5.45x39 equivalents in 5.56 or 7.62x39, but you'd be much more hard pressed to find a 5.56 M60, or M14, or FN FAL, or G3, or M240, or HK-417, or PSG-1, or whatever.

 

(Yes, I know there are some things like the Ruger Mini-14 for an M14 and SA-58 Compact for an FN FAL, but they're far different from their respective guns than per say an AK-101 from an AK-74M)

 

Yea that's the feeling I am getting.

 

They opted out of having Russian Calibers in favor of Western ones to have a wider variety of firearms in general .

 

I suppose that is ok Although I personally would have loved to see far more Eastern weapons at the expense of western ones.

[Katana67 2907]

Yea that's the feeling I am getting.

 

They opted out of having Russian Calibers in favor of Western ones to have a wider variety of firearms in general .

 

I suppose that is ok Although I personally would have loved to see far more Eastern weapons at the expense of western ones.

 

I mean, it doesn't have to be X at the expense of Y. We can just have X and Y.

 

Plus, it's not like we don't have 7.62x39. Which is what he's saying. We don't need 5.45x39, because all the weapons that it would provide for (AK-74M, RPK-74, AKS-74U, etc.) all have 7.62x39 counterparts.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Yea that's the feeling I am getting.

 

They opted out of having Russian Calibers in favor of Western ones to have a wider variety of firearms in general .

 

I suppose that is ok Although I personally would have loved to see far more Eastern weapons at the expense of western ones.

The problem is, most 5.45x39mm weapons are assault rifles, whereas there are tons of different 7.62x51mm weapons. It's not so much "at the expense of eastern weapons", it's really at the expense of a few specific guns with incredibly similar counterparts (not to mention most of them are already similar).

 

Think of it like this; if you wanted a Single Action Army in the game, would you;

A.] Add .45 Long Colt to the game to have it chambered realistically, at the expense of another revolver caliber with more variety (like .357) or

B.] Chamber it in existing .45 ACP and have room for another caliber which is used in many more guns than .45LC.

 

I'd choose option B, because you're getting a better variety and usage out of guns at a tiny expense of realism. It may not be the most realistic, but in the end it allows for more guns to be added without over complicating the ammunition system.

 

(Technically you could choose option C and not have the gun at all, but assume you already had the model made and everything was set)

[hombrecz 832]

I mean, it doesn't have to be X at the expense of Y. We can just have X and Y.

 

Plus, it's not like we don't have 7.62x39. Which is what he's saying. We don't need 5.45x39, because all the weapons that it would provide for (AK-74M, RPK-74, AKS-74U, etc.) all have 7.62x39 counterparts.

 

But why can't we have X (5,45x39) and Y (5,56x 45) at the same time?

Can't servers handle 1 more AR caliber? Is adding of regionaly widespread assault rifle, with correct caliber (in terms of quantity of manufactured rifles), somehow damaging the game?

 

I realise this whole discussion is a bit pointless, Devs are free to do whatever they will.

But even from gameplay perspective, I can't see much of good happening with caliber streamlining, when DayZ mod did not have that and became so popular.

And even mentioning "casuals," when speaking about this supposedly "antigame" called DayZ Standalone, is just adding fuel to the fire, from the perspective of long time fan.

 

ps I support your argument about 7,62x51 and 7,62x54. I just feel the same about 5,45x39 that is all.

[gibonez 3633]

The problem is, most 5.45x39mm weapons are assault rifles, whereas there are tons of different 7.62x51mm weapons. It's not so much "at the expense of eastern weapons", it's really at the expense of a few specific guns with incredibly similar counterparts (not to mention most of them are already similar).

 

Think of it like this; if you wanted a Single Action Army in the game, would you;

A.] Add .45 Long Colt to the game to have it chambered realistically, at the expense of another revolver caliber with more variety (like .357) or

B.] Chamber it in existing .45 ACP and have room for another caliber which is used in many more guns than .45LC.

 

I'd choose option B, because you're getting a better variety and usage out of guns at a tiny expense of realism. It may not be the most realistic, but in the end it allows for more guns to be added without over complicating the ammunition system.

 

(Technically you could choose option C and not have the gun at all, but assume you already had the model made and everything was set)

 

I would go with option C.

 

I would put in the Taurus Judge

 

Then that opens the door for 2 unique calibers the .45 LC and the .410 shell.

 

Then I add the SAA.

[Katana67 2907]

But why can't we have X (5,45x39) and Y (5,56x 45) at the same time?

Can't servers handle 1 more AR caliber? Is adding of regionaly widespread assault rifle, with correct caliber (in terms of quantity of manufactured rifles), somehow damaging the game?

 

I realise this whole discussion is a bit pointless, Devs are free to do whatever they will.

But even from gameplay perspective, I can't see much of good happening with caliber streamlining, when DayZ mod did not have that and became so popular.

And even mentioning "casuals," when speaking about this supposedly "antigame" called DayZ Standalone, is just adding fuel to the fire, from the perspective of long time fan.

 

ps I support your argument about 7,62x51 and 7,62x54. I just feel the same about 5,45x39 that is all.

 

That's just it. There is no expense in just having just 7.62x39 represent the "Eastern" weapons as a 5.56x45 counterpart. Because nothing is being sacrificed. You can have the Warsaw Pact weapons every bit as much as you would with 5.45x39.

 

It's not "damaging to the game" to have 5.45x39, I support 5.45x39 being added (for reasons of balancing the loot tables and weapon distribution). But it's not necessary to accomplish the goal of including the majority of Warsaw Pact gear and still have it be "authentic."

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I would go with option C.

 

I would put in the Taurus Judge

 

 

Then that opens the door for 2 unique calibers the .45 LC and the .410 shell.

 

Then I add the SAA.

That's why I said; assuming you have the models already.

I want a Taurus Judge, too :P Even though it's not something you'd likely find, it would would be a cool weapon nonetheless.

They've expressed interest in adding .410 gauge, so hopefully we'll get it eventually. .45 LC isn't something I think is necessary, though. I'd rather them just make it a .45 ACP if they were to add it.

[hombrecz 832]

It's not "damaging to the game" to have 5.45x39, I support 5.45x39 being added (for reasons of balancing the loot tables and weapon distribution). But it's not necessary to accomplish the goal of including the majority of Warsaw Pact gear and still have it be "authentic."

 

Right. But I hope Devs will not make Warsav Pact weapons with Nato calibers, even if they are existing in real life(AK102 in 5,56 etc).

WP weapon should represent eastern approach, but what happens if you introduce WP weapon, that was changed for western market? 

I mean I would hate having only AK102, from the whole AK74 family, since it fires 5,56x45, which is a bit out of place in post-communist country and should have different performance then when firing 5,45x39.

 

In the end, if they do not want 5,45x39, maybe it's just better to not include AK74 at all.

Maybe they can add Bren 805 that comes in 5,56x45 (and more), but not sure if that rifle isn't "too new"  for DayZ world.

 

edit: I wonder, if good Devs really think, that proper calibers are considered as unimportant in DayZ community.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Hombre

[gibonez 3633]

That's why I said; assuming you have the models already.

I want a Taurus Judge, too :P Even though it's not something you'd likely find, it would would be a cool weapon nonetheless.

They've expressed interest in adding .410 gauge, so hopefully we'll get it eventually. .45 LC isn't something I think is necessary, though. I'd rather them just make it a .45 ACP if they were to add it.

.410 is cool as a survivor weapon.

 

Those dual .410/ 22lr survival rifles are neat.

 

[hombrecz 832]

Btw I kinda hated the idea of having weapons made with 3d printing.

I mean, considering the looks of Chernarus, how many 3d printers would there be? O_o.

 

But if they even create map based on USA, then why not.

[gibonez 3633]

Btw I kinda hated the idea of having weapons made with 3d printing.

I mean, considering the looks of Chernarus, how many 3d printers would there be? O_o.

 

But if they even create map based on USA, then why not.

 

3d printing ?

Whats 3d printed ?

Thats stamped steel.

Edited June 28, 2014 by gibonez

[Katana67 2907]

Right. But I hope Devs will not make Warsav Pact weapons with Nato calibers, even if they are existing in real life(AK102 in 5,56 etc).

WP weapon should represent eastern approach, but what happens if you introduce WP weapon, that was changed for western market? 

I mean I would hate having only AK102, from the whole AK74 family, since it fires 5,56x45, which is a bit out of place in post-communist country and should have different performance then when firing 5,45x39.

 

In the end, if they do not want 5,45x39, maybe it's just better to not include AK74 at all.

Maybe they can add Bren 805 that comes in 5,56x45 (and more), but not sure if that rifle isn't "too new"  for DayZ world.

 

edit: I wonder, if good Devs really think, that proper calibers are considered as unimportant in DayZ community.

 

I don't really understand why the prospect of AK's chambered in 5.56x45 bothers folks.

 

If they rename the AK-74M to AK-101, it is correct. That exists in reality. And it therefore exists in the fiction of Chernarus, which can be buttressed by something as simple as a description like...

 

"The AK-101, a weapon procured in large numbers by the CDF following the NATO intervention or <INSERT FICTIONAL CHERNARUSSIAN GUN MANUFACTURER HERE>, is an AK-derivative weapon chambered in 5.56x45 NATO"

 

I'd rather them do that, than waste resources that they already have. And, to be fair, I wouldn't impose upon the developers to tweak the magazine to the angle of an AK-101 just for propriety's sake. That's the true definition of nit-picking.

 

To your edit, one... I don't consider anyone to be speaking for "the community" to have much of a chair to stand on. Speaking for ourselves as individuals is about all we can do. Two, I'm going to guess that 90% of players couldn't care either way. Which is an important distinction to make, because it's not like they don't want more calibers... they just wouldn't care... they're indifferent. To me, it therefore makes sense to address the 10% who do care either way because they actually have an opinion on the matter vice being indifferent. And three, it's not as if the developers "don't care" it's just conflicting with their design goals at the moment. Where that becomes a problem, for me, is when people start asserting that the developers have somehow failed them.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Katana67

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Right. But I hope Devs will not make Warsav Pact weapons with Nato calibers, even if they are existing in real life(AK102 in 5,56 etc).

WP weapon should represent eastern approach, but what happens if you introduce WP weapon, that was changed for western market? 

I mean I would hate having only AK102, from the whole AK74 family, since it fires 5,56x45, which is a bit out of place in post-communist country and should have different performance then when firing 5,45x39.

 

In the end, if they do not want 5,45x39, maybe it's just better to not include AK74 at all.

Maybe they can add Bren 805 that comes in 5,56x45 (and more), but not sure if that rifle isn't "too new"  for DayZ world.

 

edit: I wonder, if good Devs really think, that proper calibers are considered as unimportant in DayZ community.

 

.410 is cool as a survivor weapon.

 

Those dual .410/ 22lr survival rifles are neat.

 

One of those would be something cool to find on hunting stands or maybe even at those downed Mi-8s at pre-positioned locations (not at the "random" chopper crash-sites, though.)

 

Obviously wouldn't be very powerful as a main weapon, but could be carried in your backpack as a backup, or survival/hunting rifle, as it was intended for.

 

I'd actually like some unique non-military weapons that only spawned at certain locations, just so that it would keep you moving from place to place if you really wanted to see everything, rather than just running back to the same barracks or piano house on spawn. I don't want it to be taken to the point that; "The Mosin only spawns in the big blue barn, but the SKS spawns in the nearly-identical, save for color, big red barn" but it's certainly something to consider.

[hombrecz 832]

I'd rather them do that, than waste resources that they already have. And, to be fair, I wouldn't impose upon the developers to tweak the magazine to the angle of an AK-101 just for propriety's sake. That's the true definition of nit-picking.

 

 Where that becomes a problem, for me, is when people start asserting that the developers have somehow failed them.

 

What wasting of resources do you mean?

Model of AK74 is already done, so all that is missing is model of 5,45x39 bullet, which could be done in few minutes.

 

If wasting of few minutes is too much, considering that would make lots of mod players happy, then I will consider this as failure on their part.

 

Personally any step towards casual player and "streamlining" is something that irks me.

I will not blindly rage about it, I just see it as a step in the wrong direction and hence I will express this on forums.

 

Lastly lets not forget that people are free to feel disappointed whenever they feel like it, no matter what anyone thinks about it.

 

edit: I still support DayZ developers. I own most of the BI games, spent several hundred of hours in mod, bought 2 copies of SA, so I would not consider myself as "hater".

Edited June 28, 2014 by Hombre

[Katana67 2907]

What wasting of resources do you mean?

Model of AK74 is already done, so all that is missing is model of 5,45x39 bullet, which could be done in few minutes.

 

If wasting of few minutes is too much, considering that would make lots of mod players happy, then I will consider this as failure on their part.

 

Personally any step towards casual player and "streamlining" is something that irks me.

I will not blindly rage about it, I just see it as a step in the wrong direction and hence I will express this on forums.

 

Lastly lets not forget that people are free to feel disappointed whenever they feel like it, no matter what anyone thinks about it.

 

Yes, they already have the AK-74M done. So why would it make sense to not include it just based upon the fact that they're not putting in 5.45x39?

 

It's a waste to toss it, simply because it can't or won't be chambered in 5.45x39.

 

It's NOT a waste to just chamber it in 5.56x45 and put it in-game.

 

I'm not saying you can't have an opinion about something, I've never said this to anybody in my entire life and I don't intend on starting.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Katana67

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Yes, they already have the AK-74M done. So why would it make sense to not include it just based upon the fact that they're not putting in 5.45x39?

 

It's a waste to toss it, simply because it can't or won't be chambered in 5.45x39.

 

It's NOT a waste to just chamber it in 5.56x45 and put in in-game.

 

I'm not saying you can't have an opinion about something, I've never said this to anybody in my entire life and I don't intend on starting.

 

This.

 

I don't understand the reasoning when some people suggest that the devs should throw out items when they don't match a certain quota. It's not even for just items that are unimplemented or are just being discussed, it happens with stuff already in-game. There are actually people who want the devs to remove the M4A1 from the game completely because it's not made in Russia, or somewhere in Eastern Europe. Ridiculous.

[Katana67 2907]

There are actually people who want the devs to remove the M4A1 from the game completely because it's not made in Russia, or somewhere in Eastern Europe. Ridiculous.

 

In fairness, I haven't really heard this line of argument on the forums in a long, long, long time.

 

And when I say long, long, long time... I mean a few months.

 

I'd like to think I had something to do with that in constantly fending off the hounds. But, that's perhaps presumptuous.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

In fairness, I haven't really heard this line of argument on the forums in a long, long, long time.

 

And when I say long, long, long time... I mean a few months.

 

I'd like to think I had something to do with that in constantly fending off the hounds. But, that's perhaps presumptuous.

Well, it wasn't really a prominent argument to begin with, and most of the people who did complain about it were satiated when they made the M4 incredibly rare (although I don't think it deserves to be confined to chopper crashes). However, people still do talk about it from time to time, and I'm just slightly shocked at the fact that people can think that way to begin with

 

It happens all the time, like with people who think that the Earth is flat. Even though it's almost always a minority of people who believe it, I still can't help but be surprised when I hear it.

 

I'm sure you did your part in stopping them, though :)

[gibonez 3633]

Well, it wasn't really a prominent argument to begin with, and most of the people who did complain about it were satiated when they made the M4 incredibly rare (although I don't think it deserves to be confined to chopper crashes). However, people still do talk about it from time to time, and I'm just slightly shocked at the fact that people can think that way to begin with

 

 

The m4 should be a super rare chopper drop it is after all super modular and versatile if it ever gets its dispersion fixed.

 

In regards to the m4 the initial anger was that not so much that the m4 was in the game it was that it was put in first over an ak74 or akm thus they assumed they would have a focus on Western Military weapons.

 

This is the same reason people freaked out at the april fools joke that featured a heavily railed sniper rifle with an m203.

 

While I cant say that the grand majority of the community wants one weapon type or another I can definitely tell you a sizable portion wants a Russia/ Eastern Europe focus.

While I can't tell how big of the community they consist of I can tell you they are pretty vocal in at reddit a community that is usually more concerned with showing off their character and wanting the game to be easier.