Is character movement too responsive ?

[MagneticToast 102]

I posted about this before and nobody really saw a problem with it for some reason. I think it is awful that you can zigzag and move all over so quickly. Hopefully it is just temporary until vehicles are added.

[scriptfactory 620]

It has to be all or nothing with this type of game.

 

Why does it have to be "all or nothing"? The movement in DayZ is clunky to begin with. I feel like I am driving a tracked vehicle instead of controlling a human avatar most of the time. The more fluid the controls the better, in my opinion. I would be in favor of them smoothing out the animations (so it doesn't look like you are having an epileptic seizure) but there NEEDS to be a feeling of direct control or gameplay will suffer. Also, snipers would have a much easier target if a delay was added and I hate snipers in all permadeath games.

 

The controls are fine as is. A fatigue system should be introduced eventually but I am not in favor of making movement more "realistic" by adding unrealistic delays.

[gibonez 3633]

Why does it have to be "all or nothing"? The movement in DayZ is clunky to begin with. I feel like I am driving a tracked vehicle instead of controlling a human avatar most of the time. The more fluid the controls the better, in my opinion. I would be in favor of them smoothing out the animations (so it doesn't look like you are having an epileptic seizure) but there NEEDS to be a feeling of direct control or gameplay will suffer. Also, snipers would have a much easier target if a delay was added and I hate snipers in all permadeath games.

 

The controls are fine as is. A fatigue system should be introduced eventually but I am not in favor of making movement more "realistic" by adding unrealistic delays.

 

The movement in dayz is closer to Unreal Tournament than it is to real life thats a problem.

 

Delays are a bad word for it, how does momentum sound ?

 

You cant instantly switch directions in real life to a similar effect that you can in game.

Edited May 21, 2014 by gibonez

[hombrecz 832]

Also, I'd be in favor of a mild idle animation. Although not so abrupt as to be uncontrollable when a player needs to be stealthy (i.e. it shouldn't reveal your position ever).

 

Idle animations would be easy. Just make it so that your avatar is slowly turning head looking around. If he is standing,he can straighten is shoulders or something, you know what people do when they are forced to just stand still. Or wipe his brow or such.

 

Ofcourse those would need to stop immediately if the player pressed the key.

 

In regards to OP, I think that game needs stamina to severely limit sprinting.

Not sure I would like to see noticeable delay when changing directions though, would seem like playing Mechwarrior.

I don't believe that the way how people realisticaly walk & run can be transferred into the game without making it painfull to play.

 

When my character is unresposive, I tend to push keys harder and if that situation lasts longer, my hands might hurt a bit which is not what I would like to experience when playing games.

 

If I want to feel pain, I will go out for airsoft action, run around woods with backpack and my G&G AKMS.

[Element47 2481]

yes to reducing running speed.

 

introducing artificial input lag/delay? nope.

[Bororm 1156]

I'd say a slight increase in weapon sway from movement would be good.  I felt like the mod had more penalty for sprinting all over the god damn place in that regard.  The mod also really fucked with your aim when you got hurt, and you had to pop pain killers, something people no longer have to do.  Even with a broken arm your aim doesn't sway all that bad.

 

However, playing the mod a long time I watched player behavior evolve over the past couple years.  It started out that people were extremely cautious, cover and concealment were a huge deal and that slowly gave way to more running and gunning as people began to realize they could tweak their graphics so everyone sticks out like a sore thumb and as people just got better at the game in general.  Now people happily spray a lot of rounds, hard cover beats all concealment, and no one stays still for very long.  There's a fine line to tread, but I agree that things are bit more actiony in the SA as well.

 

Saying our characters are super agile athletes is sorta ridiculous though, besides being able to run forever, my guy is a clumsy mother fucker.  He can hardly vault properly, and barely jump, and some times has a difficult time even getting through doors.  Not to mention he can't climb.

 

Don't personally feel like the movement itself is so bad, but would like to see more penalties for moving a lot.

[gibonez 3633]

yes to reducing running speed.

 

introducing artificial input lag/delay? nope.

 

Not input lag for instance but momentum.

 

Momentum of the player not allowing you to shift directions as quickly as you can in game now.

 

 

I'd say a slight increase in weapon sway from movement would be good.  I felt like the mod had more penalty for sprinting all over the god damn place in that regard.  The mod also really fucked with your aim when you got hurt, and you had to pop pain killers, something people no longer have to do.  Even with a broken arm your aim doesn't sway all that bad.

 

However, playing the mod a long time I watched player behavior evolve over the past couple years.  It started out that people were extremely cautious, cover and concealment were a huge deal and that slowly gave way to more running and gunning as people began to realize they could tweak their graphics so everyone sticks out like a sore thumb and as people just got better at the game in general.  Now people happily spray a lot of rounds, hard cover beats all concealment, and no one stays still for very long.  There's a fine line to tread, but I agree that things are bit more actiony in the SA as well.

 

Saying our characters are super agile athletes is sorta ridiculous though, besides being able to run forever, my guy is a clumsy mother fucker.  He can hardly vault properly, and barely jump, and some times has a difficult time even getting through doors.  Not to mention he can't climb.

 

Don't personally feel like the movement itself is so bad, but would like to see more penalties for moving a lot.

 

 

Absolutely want increased sway both movement and idle sway.

 

 

Arma 3 has it down perfectly good sway that allows weapons to be used at their effective ranges.

 

 

 

 

 

In regards to OP, I think that game needs stamina to severely limit sprinting.

Not sure I would like to see noticeable delay when changing directions though, would seem like playing Mechwarrior.

I don't believe that the way how people realisticaly walk & run can be transferred into the game without making it painfull to play.

 

 

The delay would not affect gameplay since it will only affect the strafing and backpedaling in the game. If you wish to change directions quickly you simply move your mouse in said direction it wouldnt affect it.

 

Sluggish strafing and speed in changing from strafe directions could simulate momentum.

 

Nobody outside of proffesional athletes can sprint at 14mph while constantly strafing at the same speed left and right at random directions.

Edited May 21, 2014 by gibonez

[scriptfactory 620]

The delay would not affect gameplay since it will only affect the strafing and backpedaling in the game. If you wish to change directions quickly you simply move your mouse in said direction it wouldnt affect it.

 

Sluggish strafing and speed in changing from strafe directions could simulate momentum.

 

Nobody outside of proffesional athletes can sprint at 14mph while constantly strafing at the same speed left and right at random directions.

I'm sorry, Gib, but I disagree with you. Some of your realism ideas are really good but what you are describing now is tank movement. I agree that there should be a better way of implementing momentum (and let's not forget about jumping, vaulting, climbing). That being said, what you just described is tank mode...

I used to drive an APC when I was in the military and it sucked. Never again.

[agentneo 337]

Ill try to find you a gameplay video of it.

 

Experienced players tend to never ever ever sit still, they just randomly smash their s, a, and d keys at random intervals in order to constantly be a moving target.

 

This is a sound tactic never giving anyone a clear shot however it is super unrealistic and unnatural not normal human behavior.

i do that on pretty much every game i play online, that is a very typical FPS shooter tactic...never stand still

 

As for speed i think take it down to like 11 if its 14.

 

Additions

-Roll/Dodge

-Climb/Vault

-Drop n Roll for big drop off's

Edited May 21, 2014 by AgentNe0

[ld-airgrafix 403]

I am complaining about the movement being strange and not realistic.

 

People walk around like Michael J fox shaking and jumping around like they have OCD and just did 2 lines of blow.

but the players control their characters, so not really sure what the problem is? Are you saying the movements between idle to walk are jerky? Or do you think players should just stand still when idle

[gibonez 3633]

i do that on pretty much every game i play online, that is a very typical FPS shooter tactic...never stand still

 

As for speed i think take it down to like 11 if its 14.

 

Additions

-Roll/Dodge

-Climb/Vault

-Drop n Roll for big drop off's

 

11 mph sprint speed - not sustainable for long distances cause of hopefully some stamina system.

6-8 mph jog speed = sustainable for a mile and a half.

walk speed of 4-5 mph sustainable forever.

 

 

We do need more animations though, including some kind of stance system from Arma 3 but with civilian versions of the various stances and maybe not as many stances.

 

 

 

but the players control their characters, so not really sure what the problem is? Are you saying the movements between idle to walk are jerky? Or do you think players should just stand still when idle

 

 

Yes people stand still when idle even when they feel in danger.

 

When have you see combat footage of a soldier standing and moving left and right erratically ?

 

People do not behave like they do in game.

 

 

I'm sorry, Gib, but I disagree with you. Some of your realism ideas are really good but what you are describing now is tank movement. I agree that there should be a better way of implementing momentum (and let's not forget about jumping, vaulting, climbing). That being said, what you just described is tank mode...

I used to drive an APC when I was in the military and it sucked. Never again.

 

 

The sluggishness would never be felt. The only time you would feel anything is if you purposely try to move left and right and realistically momentum would not allow you to do so atleast not without

tripping over your feet or falling.

 

Would not effect aiming, forward or backward movement wouldn't even affect strafing unless you quickly try to change direction multiple times.

 

Heck I would advocate for a realistic real life alternative to strafing a side step.

 

People simply dont strafe in real life this is a video game idea from Arena shooter days. If people need to move left and right they side step slowly because we simply do not have the coordination to sprint sideways like we do in game.

Edited May 21, 2014 by gibonez

[Element47 2481]

an underlying issue is, that people will always try to (ab-)use the tools at their disposal to the maximum extent possible. no matter how strict the rules, no matter how hard the punishment, you will see people behaving 'unrealistically'. thus i am against imposing an overly strict ruleset and punish everyone all the time for the 1% of gameplay time during which 'jiggling' of a player character really does matter.

 

for me, real, direct combat makes less than 5% of the gameplay, probably much less. and most of it isnt really affected by people changing run direction. but i ackowledge that there are people whose whole gamplay experience consist of long-range scoping adn headshotting. i am not here to argue gameplay differences, but i think, that on average, the impact of the issue you describe is negligible - at least in comparison to punishing the whole player base, across all playstyles, all the time.

 

p.s.to clarify: in this context and my opinion, adding artificial sluggishness to movement is punishment. i completely agree with you in other parts, like movement speed, endurance etc.

 

edit: i wasn't aware that you can sprint sideways. afaik only double-tapping the forward key engages the sprint. btw strafing is not limited to arena shooters. it a staple excercise of runners and a basic maneuver in soccer

Edited May 21, 2014 by e47

[Axel335 2]

I posted about this before and nobody really saw a problem with it for some reason. I think it is awful that you can zigzag and move all over so quickly. Hopefully it is just temporary until vehicles are added.

Same, it was the first thing I noticed and probably the biggest deal-breaker for me.

Edited May 21, 2014 by Axel335

[gibonez 3633]

an underlying issue is, that people will always try to (ab-)use the tools at their disposal to the maximum extent possible. no matter how strict the rules, no matter how hard the punishment, you will see people behaving 'unrealistically'. thus i am against imposing an overly strict ruleset and punish everyone all the time for the 1% of gameplay time during which 'jiggling' of a player character really does matter.

 

for me, real, direct combat makes less than 5% of the gameplay, probably much less. and most of it isnt really affected by people changing run direction. but i ackowledge that there are people whose whole gamplay experience consist of long-range scoping adn headshotting. i am not here to argue gameplay differences, but i think, that on average, the impact of the issue you describe is negligible - at least in comparison to punishing the whole player base, across all playstyles, all the time.

 

p.s.to clarify: in this context and my opinion, adding artificial sluggishness to movement is punishment. i completely agree with you in other parts, like movement speed, endurance etc.

 

I did not even think of how it affects long range shooting.

 

This stems from my encounters with every single player. you talk to them friendly or not and they stand there shifting left and right side to side back and forth.

 

They simply are so paranoid and the movement system so unrealistic that they abuse it to try to unrealistically make their character harder to hit.

 

If they could somehow manage to replicate momentum in movement just like it is replicated fantastically with the aiming of weapons then the movement will feel more fluid and realistic.

[Element47 2481]

I did not even think of how it affects long range shooting.

 

This stems from my encounters with every single player. you talk to them friendly or not and they stand there shifting left and right side to side back and forth.

 

They simply are so paranoid and the movement system so unrealistic that they abuse it to try to unrealistically make their character harder to hit.

 

If they could somehow manage to replicate momentum in movement just like it is replicated fantastically with the aiming of weapons then the movement will feel more fluid and realistic.

 

i had a different experience - of course i met those nervous types too, constantly changing positions and checking their surroundings, but had also enough encounters where we just stood together - or even sat together.

 

those who really do have the urge to move constantly, will do so no matter how much momentum you add - and i doubt it will look more 'realistic'. maybe there will be a slight change, like poeple running around in circles now instead of strafing.

[scriptfactory 620]

This stems from my encounters with every single player. you talk to them friendly or not and they stand there shifting left and right side to side back and forth.

 

They simply are so paranoid and the movement system so unrealistic that they abuse it to try to unrealistically make their character harder to hit.

 

It seems that your problem is more with a player base that is unable to trust others rather than users "abusing" movement so you won't kill them. If users aren't able to side-strafe to give themselves a sense of peace when interacting with others interactions will just decrease... or they will just run around you in circles while wobbling with Q+E.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

I am sure you guys have all seen it either in game or in playthrough videos but characters in Stand Alone have the agility of professional athletes.

 

The dangers of the wasteland has instilled a strange behavior that is not natural in players.

 

PLAYERS DO NOT STAY STILL.

 

No matter what they do a player will always be moving around in random directions anxious that there is a random sniper training his aim on him or her.

This leads to people moving and behaving in unrealistic and downright odd behavior.

 

Nobody in real life would move in the way people move in dayz.  People would outright wear themselves out too quickly or look like a lunatic moving side to side as they sprint through a clearing.

 

Some Arma 3 mods have addressed this by putting in realistic tweaks to player movement that I feel help immerse the player into the game more and would be good for gameplay.

 

1. back stepping speed is reduced by 75 percent. Being able to move backwards at nearly the same speed as moving forward simply does not work in real life thus it should not work in game.

 

2. There is a slight delay between the time you can strafe or change directions. Basically strafing erratically in makeshift zig zag patterns does not work . The game however keeps your mouse movement as responsive as ever this only affects the players movement and not his ability to realistically look and aim.

 

3. Sprint speed is reduced to realistic levels. You can no longer sprint at 14 mph with these realism mods the number is brought down to a realistic level.

 

 

Anyone else bothered by the responsiveness of the players movement and the unrealistic movement mechanics ?

Here is an idea:

Make stamina deplete based on the rate of change of the player's velocity vector and tune it so it only become sgnificant for sharp changes.

[agentneo 337]

I dont know if it is fair to say no one moves like this. most people dont stand completely still if they are in imminent danger. If you were in a combat zone you would be constantly looking around 360, keeping your head down and moving between cover.

 

If there were bullets whizzin by constantly you might be more inclined to move slowly in cover and not stand straight up like a lamp post

[gibonez 3633]

I dont know if it is fair to say no one moves like this. most people dont stand completely still if they are in imminent danger. If you were in a combat zone you would be constantly looking around 360, keeping your head down and moving between cover.

 

If there were bullets whizzin by constantly you might be more inclined to move slowly in cover and not stand straight up like a lamp post

 

In reality you would conserve energy and make yourself a small target.

 

You would not stand up and then proceed to move forward, left, right then forward again in an a weird pattern.

[Karmaterror 982]

Are you really saying now that people strafing side to side as they run across a field, to avoid sniper fire is unrealistic.....man....facepalm.

 

Watch a game of rugby, humans can change direction almost instantly when they have to. Cricket is another example, when they get runs they quickly change direction to go the opposite way and that does not take long for the direction change at all. Humans don't carry momentum very much, we can stop on a dime and be off again in another direction instantly....... bleep test anyone?? :P

[tinroofer 23]

Yeah, the movement can be a little irritating, even from an aesthetic perspective. 

 

While they just can't add in fully realistic movement because of just how cumbersome that sort of thing can be in video games/simulators when you're using mechanical keys and a mouse, I would like to see some sort of inertia added to the characters, and a system where say you burn calories at 300% rate or the like when you are shifting direction constantly.

[gibonez 3633]

Are you really saying now that people strafing side to side as they run across a field, to avoid sniper fire is unrealistic.....man....facepalm.

 

Watch a game of rugby, humans can change direction almost instantly when they have to. Cricket is another example, when they get runs they quickly change direction to go the opposite way and that does not take long for the direction change at all. Humans don't carry momentum very much, we can stop on a dime and be off again in another direction instantly....... bleep test anyone?? :P

 

So people fight wars like they play rugby huh ?

 

It is normal for soldiers or people with firearms to move like they are playing a rugby game ?

 

People do not strafe in real life. They simply dont it provides no advantage at all.

 

They side step if they need to not strafe at 8 mph.

[Karmaterror 982]

So people fight wars like they play rugby huh ?

 

It is normal for soldiers or people with firearms to move like they are playing a rugby game ?

 

People do not strafe in real life. They simply dont it provides no advantage at all.

 

They side step if they need to not strafe at 8 mph.

 

Not at all never said that, I used rugby as an example of how fast a human being can change direction, or side step. You are only moaning that people in a game behave like people in a game its not an issue with the representation of human movement, its an issue with the mentality of gamers ;)

[Death By Crowbar 1213]

I am complaining about the movement being strange and not realistic.

 

People walk around like Michael J fox shaking and jumping around like they have OCD and just did 2 lines of blow.

Yeah, well - IRL people don't have the reflexes of a cat and can't toss around a sniper rifle as they can in game. You'd have to rebalance the guns, animations, etc if you want to rebalance the player movement. All you want is to make sniping easier, and all the people who move like they have OCD and are on LSD want is to avoid snipers like you. It's already balanced, and thus anytime people run through Berezino or Elektro they're going to do the Harlem Shake the whole way through.

[miqueloz 33]

Yeah, well - IRL people don't have the reflexes of a cat and can't toss around a sniper rifle as they can in game. You'd have to rebalance the guns, animations, etc if you want to rebalance the player movement. All you want is to make sniping easier, and all the people who move like they have OCD and are on LSD want is to avoid snipers like you. It's already balanced, and thus anytime people run through Berezino or Elektro they're going to do the Harlem Shake the whole way through.

Huh? Care to explain your "reflexes of a cat" comment? DayZ somehow improves people's reaction time?