Suggestion: Decrease hit percentage => Lengthen the Rush + Reduce Artificiality

[cuddly_rabbit 102]

Yeah, cause no one uses scoped weapons for hunting, only lead ball muskets and bows, right?

 

You better be joking.

 

And @ topic

 

That a big motherfucking NO.

 

The fact that you'll die for a simple mistake you make is what makes the game so brutal. This is not cod where you can take 5 shots to the chest and regenerate faster than wolverine, IRL weapons are much more accurate than they are in game and you'll die without knowing from if you're not careful.

 

Even a badly shaped mosin will hit a man target at ~400 meters if your sights are on.

 

Damn man, so much fucking casuals and carebears on these forums nowadays, i feel that most of the community want the game to be an open world cod/wow with zombies.

 

They want less weapons, less weapon accuracy, easier zombies, more random mechanics, what's next? aim assist?

Have you even read my post?

And I do not think that you (assuming you have no training) will ever (!) hit anything at 400 meters.

That should be the average survivor.

I suggest you go and read my post again, because it is exactly the opposite of "cod/wow". It aims for a lot more realism.

[cuddly_rabbit 102]

That is incorrect.

 

There number of hunters that are likely to survive a SHTF scenario is insane.

 

These hunters would bring with them their precision shooting and hunting rifles many of which are on par if not exceed what a military sniper rifle is capable of.

 

Take a deer rifle in .243 for example a good accurate deer rifle in .243 shoots a 90 grain bullet out of the barrel at around 3600 fps with a hot load at that speed the time to target is insanely fast and with say 10 mph cross wind the .243 will be affected by wind by 20 feet less compared to a .308 from say a m24 or m40 rifle.

 

When it comes to precision shooting, the civilian market and hunters have far better equipment.

But you are no hunter in this game. You are not meant to be a trained specialist in shooting.

That's why people should miss. A lot. A lot more than they do now.

I did - mind you - not talk about randomness and dispersion.

Whether that lack of hitting a target is achieved by dispersion or realistic factors that make the aiming/shooting process harder for the player... I don't really mind.

It just has to be much harder if we do not want it to feel like a cineastic Hollywood shooter with spray-n-pray 40 round-burst assault rifles (ever tried that in reality? No way you hit anything!) and magical snipers of easy-hitting+4 (modifier: direct death).

[lipemr 160]

Have you even read my post?

And I do not think that you (assuming you have no training) will ever (!) hit anything at 400 meters.

That should be the average survivor.

I suggest you go and read my post again, because it is exactly the opposite of "cod/wow". It aims for a lot more realism.

 

what the fuck is the "average survivor"? have you ever used a gun in your life before? it's not rocket science, stop making assumptions that the "average survivor" would have parkinsons and all the weapons on the game should have a corroded 20º angle barrel that woul make the shots go all over the place. It just isnt like this.

 

You cant hit shit past 300~400 meters with iron sights, but with scopes it's ridiculously easy to hit targets in the 300-600m range.

 

Putting randomness in the ballistics is the lazy man way out to correcting the unrealistic character behavior.

 

just make the weapon sway more while kneeled or standing, make the weight of the weapon affect the time that you can stabilize your gun while looking down the sights.

 

implement decent ballistics (with wind and elevation) and make long range shooting only possible while prone.

 

There's no such thing as "shoot more and hit less". People that get spotted deserve to die, first of all. Making weapons accuracy crappy will only make the game more lame than it already is with the terrible ballistics that are in place now.

Edited May 16, 2014 by lipemr

[lipemr 160]

But you are no hunter in this game. You are not meant to be a trained specialist in shooting.

That's why people should miss. A lot. A lot more than they do now.

I did - mind you - not talk about randomness and dispersion.

Whether that lack of hitting a target is achieved by dispersion or realistic factors that make the aiming/shooting process harder for the player... I don't really mind.

It just has to be much harder if we do not want it to feel like a cineastic Hollywood shooter with spray-n-pray 40 round-burst assault rifles (ever tried that in reality? No way you hit anything!) and magical snipers of easy-hitting+4 (modifier: direct death).

 

oh dear, now you're clearly showing that you have no clue what you're talking about, and you're just mad at the snipers that kill you while you stand in the open in elektro or something.

 

balancing should and will be avoided as much as it can be. Snipers are supposed to be 'unfair', just learn to avoid being hit by them, it's not that hard, friend.

[cuddly_rabbit 102]

oh dear, now you're clearly showing that you have no clue what you're talking about, and you're just mad at the snipers that kill you while you stand in the open in elektro or something.

 

balancing should and will be avoided as much as it can be. Snipers are supposed to be 'unfair', just learn to avoid being hit by them, it's not that hard, friend.

In contrast to you, I actually have a military background, infantry training and rank, know weapon handling and know limitations of infantry weapons pretty well. 

And no, I am not mad at the snipers in the game. They just make zero sense in the game (ok, alpha => pvp arena) and it is too ridiculously easy to hit (with every gun, though), when you just accept that these are untrained people. But hey... I might as well save my time, as I seem to be talking against a wall. Enjoy your day ;)

[lipemr 160]

In contrast to you, I actually have a military background, infantry training and rank, know weapon handling and know limitations of infantry weapons pretty well. 

And no, I am not mad at the snipers in the game. They just make zero sense in the game (ok, alpha => pvp arena) and it is too ridiculously easy to hit (with every gun, though), when you just accept that these are untrained people. But hey... I might as well save my time, as I seem to be talking against a wall. Enjoy your day ;)

what's your rank and where did you serve?

[-Gews- 7443]

People don't seem to get his post...

In real life you don't see many people making 800 meter headshots from offhand positions... but in DayZ or ARMA 2 almost anyone can do it on their first try. Page up until it says "800". Place mouse and simply click.

Problem?

[gibonez 3633]

People don't seem to get his post...

In real life you don't see many people making 800 meter headshots from offhand positions... but in DayZ or ARMA 2 almost anyone can do it on their first try. Page up until it says "800". Place mouse and simply click.

Problem?

 

All a direct result of oversimplified shooting mechanics in Arma 2 and dayz.

 

With more indepth and complex shooting and weapon elevation mechanics that would not happen.

[Khanarac 252]

As he stated in his OPENING post, he is a seargent in the german army. And I know what he is talking about, esp regarding the G36. That piece of crap loses accuracy after some use, because the red-dot scope loses alingment with the gunmuzzle. I was a conscript in the german military, in the german equivalent of armyrangers (but they didn't train conscripts as well as the real guys ofc). Modern guns need to be tended to. And hell, they could make the weapon cleaning kit useful and make us re-adjust the weaponry, why not? You could find some rusty AKM that you have to refurbish first in order to make it reliable.

Also he is kind of right about hitting people. If you look at warstatistics, most people are not killed. Just wounded. I recall that in the 2nd Worldwar, the Wehrmacht lost about 30% of their soldiers (statistics for the eastern front) So 70% of all other soldiers survived. And that battles there involved atillery and all kinds of crazy crap that is not in dayz.

I like the realism idea but I dont know how to make this work. If you have a well taken care of gun, it should be reliable. Its still a game, and unreliable weaponry would cause only frustration. So, I don't really know how to implement this kind of realism to a game. People are used to the most badass military equip that works perfectly always. Changing that might just get people seriously pissed.

It must be frustrating for a soldier with uber-accurate equipment though, as he gets the feeling that somehow is not right.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Khanarac

[-Gews- 7443]

All a direct result of oversimplified shooting mechanics in Arma 2 and dayz.

With more indepth and complex shooting and weapon elevation mechanics that would not happen.

And those mechanics would decrease hit percentages, which the kind of thing cuddly_rabbit seems to want... he never once suggested random dispersion, he mentioned the following things:

-weapon sway, weapon control

-sighting-in rifles and knocking sights out of alignment

-ammunition quality

-barrel overheating causing stringing, POI change, loss of accuracy

-more advanced and realistic wounding and medical system

[gibonez 3633]

And those mechanics would decrease hit percentages, which the kind of thing cuddly_rabbit seems to want... he never once suggested random dispersion, he mentioned the following things:

-weapon sway, weapon control

-sighting-in rifles and knocking sights out of alignment

-ammunition quality

-barrel overheating causing stringing, POI change, loss of accuracy

-more advanced and realistic wounding and medical system

 

I actually just licked my lips while reading all that.

 

Combine that with weapon resting and bipod deployment and we got a recipe for fun rewarding deep gameplay.

[miqueloz 33]

But you are no hunter in this game. You are not meant to be a trained specialist in shooting.

Source?

 

Also, protip, stop bringing up your military background 24/7. It's starting to sound really embarrassing, especially since you're apparently not even a combat vet.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Xant

[ace5762 (DayZ) 20]

I'm up in the air about the nature of weapon accuracy, but I certainly would like a more in depth injury system- one that compensates for getting shot in multiple areas of your body, rather than just headshots or bodyshots. And limbs breaking when getting shot is kind of dumb too- obviously you wouldn't be able to walk if you got shot in the leg, but there should be a seperate status effect for that.

It might be more pertinent, therefore, to increase the number of cases where a player could survive immediately after a gunshot (albeit for a drastically short amount of time, and almost certainly going into shock + unconsious for a while if it was a critical shot), wherein players who take wounds from a gunshot will know exactly where they got shot and how serious the wound is, with their movement impaired as required.

Healing process for getting shot should be different too- a random chance for the bullet to pass through your body or be lodged inside you (the latter requiring the use of pliers/forceps/knife to extract the bullet, with a greater health and blood deterioration), as well as dynamic health and blood loss depending on the bullet caliber.

I think also, the shock/blood system needs to be replaced with shock/adrenaline ratios, where adrenaline is a stat related to blood, but goes up in several circumstances such as combat, or drinking caffeinated drinks. Adrenaline would drain faster than shock, so it would be necessary to curb your shock by treating wounds and taking pain medication as soon as possible.

Edited May 17, 2014 by ace5762

[lipemr 160]

People don't seem to get his post...

In real life you don't see many people making 800 meter headshots from offhand positions... but in DayZ or ARMA 2 almost anyone can do it on their first try. Page up until it says "800". Place mouse and simply click.

Problem?

 

put ace mechanics, like they plan to do, and everything is fine.

 

Adding random spread to weapons using "bad condition" as an excuse is the worst way of simulating how it works on real life, AKA lazy men's way out.

[lipemr 160]

As he stated in his OPENING post, he is a seargent in the german army. And I know what he is talking about, esp regarding the G36. That piece of crap loses accuracy after some use, because the red-dot scope loses alingment with the gunmuzzle. I was a conscript in the german military, in the german equivalent of armyrangers (but they didn't train conscripts as well as the real guys ofc). Modern guns need to be tended to. And hell, they could make the weapon cleaning kit useful and make us re-adjust the weaponry, why not? You could find some rusty AKM that you have to refurbish first in order to make it reliable.

Also he is kind of right about hitting people. If you look at warstatistics, most people are not killed. Just wounded. I recall that in the 2nd Worldwar, the Wehrmacht lost about 30% of their soldiers at the eastern front. And that involved atillery and all kinds of crazy crap that is not in dayz.

I like the realism idea but I dont know how to make this work. If you have a well taken care of gun, it should be reliable. Its still a game, and unreliable weaponry would cause only frustration. So, I don't really know how to implement this kind of realism to a game. People are used to the most badass military equip that works perfectly always. Changing that might just get people seriously pissed.

It must be frustrating for a soldier with uber-accurate equipment though, as he gets the feeling that somehow is not right.

 

i was corporal in my country's army, responsible for taking care of the rifles, and i can tell you for sure: the weapon will always outshoot the shooter. Even 60 year old FALs that saw basic training every fucking year can hit a target from 300m away with iron sights, if the sights are aligned.

[INoEmo 29]

well isn't this a clusterfuck?

 

I'd like to remind everyone, this game is in the aftermath of an apocalypse.  The guns you find are going to more than likely be old (no-ne makes guns like these anymore, well used (you know, from shooting a ton of Zeds while you lived and would more than likely have been dropped it's far share of times.  Maybe they could add a few more features to guns that affect what goes on with them such as

-Rusty barrel- -40%hit chance and +8% bullet spread

-Dropped sights- The sights don't align, the gun was probably dropped on them

etc.

 

Have just about all the guns you find have at least 2 of these types of things, with it being rare with only 1 and 1 of a kind with none.

[-Gews- 7443]

-Rusty barrel- -40%hit chance and +8% bullet spread

?

+8% spread is -17% hit chance.