Removal of 3rd person view exploit

[Bo0G 7]

Where now is the exploit? Its only an exploit if other people do not have that advantage. Everyone on a 3rd person has the same possibilities as its active on these servers.

Why do people make this argument? It is completely false. Most exploits can be used by everyone. The complaint comes from people who prefer playing the game without the exploit against those who choose to use it.

So technically the exploit is not the 3rd person view per se' date=' but the lack of collision and free movement radius of the 3rd person camera. And this is what I think you should have suggested to be looked into in the first place. I think this would have made much more sense.

[/quote']

No, it wouldn't. It makes more sense to allow those who choose to play in 3rd do so on their own servers with others who choose the same style of play. And, by the same token, allow those who prefer a more hardcore play style to play on servers with others of like mind.

This wouldn't be an issue if the game were not persistent. If the game wasn't persistent, each time we logged on we could decide, "do I want easy mode or sim mode today?" and pick a server accordingly. But since the game IS persistent, I feel that players who 'levelled' their character in hardcore mode deserve to play exclusively against the same tier of players.

Everyone wins. 3rd people can play on their own servers and 1st people can play on theirs. Just make the 'difficulty setting' persistent along with everything else about the character. Why would anyone even argue?

[weedmasta 784]

Obvious troll thread is obvious. Play on veteran servers and stop wasting people's time...

[Redshift 58]

It makes more sense to allow those who choose to play in 3rd do so on their own servers with others who choose the same style of play. And' date=' by the same token, allow those who prefer a more hardcore play style to play on servers with others of like mind.

This wouldn't be an issue if the game were not persistent. If the game wasn't persistent, each time we logged on we could decide, "do I want easy mode or sim mode today?" and pick a server accordingly. But since the game IS persistent, I feel that players who 'levelled' their character in hardcore mode deserve to play exclusively against the same tier of players.

[/quote']

This argument is illogical and I dont understand why people keep trying to make it.

1) This argument assumes that using 3rd person = free easy loot. And this simply is not the case.

2) If you prefer to play using 3rd person you would not want to switch over to 1st person forced server to pvp. It's just not going to happen like that.

3) The argument is based largely on "3rd person is an exploit used to make pvp unfair". If this is true then why would someone use it to loot and then switch to a 1st person server to pvp..... it makes no sense as they would be giving up this "advantage" you are complaining about. No if someone is trying to exploit it they would stay on the 3rd person server to maintain that advantage at all times.

The reason against splitting characters like that?

1) It is un-needed

2) It would take extra HIVE resources to implement, resulting in performance issues and/or an increased chance of data corruption

Why would you invite extra problems to implement a solution to a problem that does not exist?

[Bo0G 7]

1) This argument assumes that using 3rd person = free easy loot. And this simply is not the case.

No' date=' it doesn't. It assumes (correctly) that 3rd person is intended to be easy mode in Arma2. Then it asserts that many of us players would like to play against characters that have been built EXCLUSIVELY in Hardmode like our own.

2) If you prefer to play using 3rd person you would not want to switch over to 1st person forced server to pvp. It's just not going to happen like that.

Think it through, man. There are plenty of occasions where an easy mode player may join an expert server instead of their home server (ie. time of day, player count, server availability, etc.)

The reason against splitting characters like that?

1) It is un-needed

2) It would take extra HIVE resources to implement' date=' resulting in performance issues and/or an increased chance of data corruption

Why would you invite extra problems to implement a solution to a problem that does not exist?

[/quote']

1) Anti-cheat is always un-needed. This is a thread about what we WANT.

2) I doubt you are any more qualified than I am to say what resources would be taxed and/or relieved by this change. So lets not speculate here. Just talk about what we want, and let the devs worry about how to do it.

[Lukio (DayZ) 24]

So technically the exploit is not the 3rd person view per se' date=' but the lack of collision and free movement radius of the 3rd person camera. And this is what I think you should have suggested to be looked into in the first place. I think this would have made much more sense.

[/quote']

No, it wouldn't. It makes more sense to allow those who choose to play in 3rd do so on their own servers with others who choose the same style of play. And, by the same token, allow those who prefer a more hardcore play style to play on servers with others of like mind.

[...]

The exploitative nature of 3rd person view that seems to be disturbing you, based on the video you posted IS that the camera allows you to see further than you actually would be in a certain position, through walls, above walls, around corners. Having the camera be limited by walls and obstacles that cannot be passed through by normal sight or are above character height would fix exactly that annoying part of what you see as an exploit and would allow FPS and 3DP players to play on a server without one thinking the other has an unfair advantage.

What you are suggesting is segregating 3DP and FPS players completely, which sounds really bad and does not make sense. ARMA II imo has alwas had this fragmentation of mods, players and addons - to me it just looks like you want to have a differentiation between "elite or hc" (in your opinion FPS) players and noobs / exploitative players who use 3DP view. I do not support this connotation that some players who play in FPS are better or more hardcore than players without.

[Bo0G 7]

So technically the exploit is not the 3rd person view per se' date=' but the lack of collision and free movement radius of the 3rd person camera. And this is what I think you should have suggested to be looked into in the first place. I think this would have made much more sense.

[/quote']

No, it wouldn't. It makes more sense to allow those who choose to play in 3rd do so on their own servers with others who choose the same style of play. And, by the same token, allow those who prefer a more hardcore play style to play on servers with others of like mind.

[...]

The exploitative nature of 3rd person view that seems to be disturbing you, based on the video you posted IS that the camera allows you to see further than you actually would be in a certain position, through walls, above walls, around corners.

I'm not sure why you quoted my post but then referred to a video that BL1P posted as being mine. Maybe you're not sure who you're talking to or what you are arguing?

Still, if you actually watched that video, then you saw BOTH kinds of 3RD exploiting showcased not just wall clipping.

I do not support this connotation that some players who play in FPS are better or more hardcore than players without.

You are free to not support whatever you like. But whether you support it or not, BIS obviously thinks that players who are limited to FPS are more "expert" than players who aren't (hence the difficulty settings in game) and it is their game we are discussing. Also, I'm inclined to agree with them.

[Miragenz 71]

Everyone has access to the exploit, its upto you wether you use it or not, you know others will.

[ryansongy@hotmail.com 27]

My concerns over ill gained loot have been misunderstood aswell.(or poorly explined by myself which sounds more probable ).

The loot I was referring to would be the loot gained from exploiting 3rd to get a pvp kill.

Not the loot gained from looking in a building using 3rd view which you would not be able to do without the 3rd camera.

No what you said is exactly this on page 2: "I do simple as that. what I don't think the mod needs is exploiters coming from 3rdperson=1 servers with loot gained from the exploit available with 3rd onto the server I'm on."

This doesn't make sense at all because people that like using third person are going to keep using third person and never come to your server. Its a personal preference not a cheap way to get some gear so they can 'start playing for real' as you would put it.

[infinitegrim 47]

I play third person all the time, unless I'm shooting. You get rid of third person, I will most likely stop playing.

[qla 0]

I play third person all the time' date=' unless I'm shooting. You get rid of third person, I will most likely stop playing.

[/quote']

Most likely you would just adapt. But one thing ArmA 2 needs is a easier way to increase fov. Most players do not know that you can increase your fov from the .cfg file and thus go to 3rd person servers because they can't handle the "tunnel vision".

[NoobieCarebear 0]

1) This argument assumes that using 3rd person = free easy loot. And this simply is not the case.

No' date=' it doesn't. It assumes (correctly) that 3rd person is intended to be easy mode in Arma2. Then it asserts that many of us players would like to play against characters that have been built EXCLUSIVELY in Hardmode like our own.

2) If you prefer to play using 3rd person you would not want to switch over to 1st person forced server to pvp. It's just not going to happen like that.

Think it through, man. There are plenty of occasions where an easy mode player may join an expert server instead of their home server (ie. time of day, player count, server availability, etc.)

The reason against splitting characters like that?

1) It is un-needed

2) It would take extra HIVE resources to implement' date=' resulting in performance issues and/or an increased chance of data corruption

Why would you invite extra problems to implement a solution to a problem that does not exist?

[/quote']

1) Anti-cheat is always un-needed. This is a thread about what we WANT.

2) I doubt you are any more qualified than I am to say what resources would be taxed and/or relieved by this change. So lets not speculate here. Just talk about what we want, and let the devs worry about how to do it.

No it's just you who WANTS this, don't include us in this and NO we will also talk about what we DON'T WANT not just what you want which is all servers being forced into 1st person only servers.

Gee's whom ever started this thread, just get over yourself someone got the drop on you, they were better than you, they didn't cheat and use some exploit, they were just better than you, stop being such a sore loser and just don't play on 3PS servers.

[7-75 callaghan 43]

Everyone has access to the exploit' date=' its upto you wether you use it or not, you know others will.

[/quote']

Exactly, and as a known exploitable mechanic, it should be removed.

[hazedaze 89]

just write your server filter 3dp:off

have fun playing on first person view servers :D

[7-75 callaghan 43]

Still here I see. I have already made it clear that you are far too new to this to know what you are talking about, as is anyone that argues for 3rd person.

I'm probably abandoning this thread, because it's depressing to see how low the average skill and intelligence level is of these new players.

I leave you all with one suggestion, and I don't want to hear more of your uninformed nonsense until you try it.

Play on a veteran/expert server for a day, with forced 1st person on.

It is more immersive.

It is more realistic.

It requires greater skill and you will become a much better player very quickly, to the point where you will not need and NOT WANT 3rd person.

It is fairer.

It is more fun.

Enough hot air, try it and learn kids.

[heretic (DayZ) 76]

Still here I see. I have already made it clear that you are far too new to this to know what you are talking about' date=' as is anyone that argues for 3rd person.

I'm probably abandoning this thread, because it's depressing to see how low the average skill and intelligence level is of these new players.

I leave you all with one suggestion, and I don't want to hear more of your uninformed nonsense until you try it.

Play on a veteran/expert server for a day, with forced 1st person on.

It is more immersive.

It is more realistic.

It requires greater skill and you will become a much better player very quickly, to the point where you will not need and NOT WANT 3rd person.

It is fairer.

It is more fun.

Enough hot air, try it and learn kids.

[/quote']

What a narrow minded numpty!!!

Learn to live and let live... As long as everybody on the same server is playing by the same rules there is no problem.

You 1st person hardcore leetist idjits are just trolling. Go live under a bridge...

[ryansongy@hotmail.com 27]

Still here I see. I have already made it clear that you are far too new to this to know what you are talking about' date=' as is anyone that argues for 3rd person.

I'm probably abandoning this thread, because it's depressing to see how low the average skill and intelligence level is of these new players.

I leave you all with one suggestion, and I don't want to hear more of your uninformed nonsense until you try it.

Play on a veteran/expert server for a day, with forced 1st person on.

It is more immersive.

It is more realistic.

It requires greater skill and you will become a much better player very quickly, to the point where you will not need and NOT WANT 3rd person.

It is fairer.

It is more fun.

Enough hot air, try it and learn kids.

[/quote']

You are SO fucking arrogant and high-minded. Get off your high horse and realize that you NEVER have to play with anyone that uses 3rd by staying on your 3rd disabled server!

What makes you think you should be able to choose for other people what they can and cannot do? ITS AN OPTIONAL THING. IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU. BUGGER OFF.

[7-75 callaghan 43]

Learn to live and let live... As long as everybody on the same server is playing by the same rules there is no problem.

No, for the millionth damn time, that isn't the case.

Even if EVERYONE is using 3rd person, it still isn't a level playing field.

I have said this and explained this so many, many times now.

Go back to page 4 or 5 I think and read my example story of why this is the case. It benefits some, who use it as an exploit, in many situations, but not others.

The only way it would be fair, would be to give everyone xray vision.

All of you, please read that example, which is just one of many, before repeating the same things again, and again, and again.

*Bangs head against wall*

[Sawzall 0]

Everyone has access to the exploit' date=' its upto you wether you use it or not, you know others will.

[/quote']

Exactly, and as a known exploitable mechanic, it should be removed.

Your claim that loot gained on regular servers gives those players a serious advantage when playing on expert servers is of questionable credibility.

[7-75 callaghan 43]

What makes you think you should be able to choose for other people what they can and cannot do? ITS AN OPTIONAL THING. IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU. BUGGER OFF.

It isn't about me choosing for other people' date=' it is about universal fairness for a mod that will eventually become a final release MMORPG, where persistance matters, and because of player permadeath, that people might be able to kill you with equipment that they acquired by unfair means, and by using an exploit so in an unfair way, the game becomes broken, regardless of whether you use first or third person.

ESPECIALLY if they decide to introduce a pay-monthly or pay-for-content system, which they may well do.

Please watch your language, or I will report you to a moderator. Grow up, this is a suggestion thread, not a place for adolescents to redirect their sexual frustration.

[hr']

And as usual, they realise their mistake, and slip away quietly.

Anyway, it isn't my responsibility to explain this to every DayZ player one by one.

I'll leave this story one last time, the rest is up to you guys, I have better things to do, like scratch my balls.

Allow me to introduce Survivor A, an unassuming but determined fellow, currently running towards wall B, behind which bandit C is crouching. All are using 3rd person, apart from wall B, who is not sentient, but if he were would feel most uncomfortable about his entire predicament, and having spent so many years in Chernarus, would no doubt be an upright bastion of the moral unassailability of '1st-person-only'.

Bandit C, holding the ALT key, is able to see around his socially-deprived person across an entire 360 degrees, including above and beyond the wall, without exposing a single part of his virginal, delicate and well kempt bandit body. Survivor A, also using this feature, just because he can, is also holding the ALT key to gain a 360 view of his surroundings whilst sprinting, just to make sure he isn't being followed by anyone, infected, healthy or wall.

Alas, because of the tiresomely conservative laws of physics, that deny light the ability to curve around corners even in seemingly the most important of situations such as this, Survivor A is unable to see around and beyond these objects in the same way (please don't make me draw diagrams) as Bandit C. Wall B, were he able to comprehend within his grainy, weathered, yet well formed and resilient self would surely be most disapproving of the painful inevitability of the tragedy soon to unfold.

Survivor A passes Wall B and, having been seen and tracked by Bandit C for minutes now, immediately takes 3 high-velocity rounds of 7.62mm full metal jacket in the leg, chest and head, ending his life before even having had time to take in the newly revealed surroundings.

It seems likely that, had Wall B the capacity for consciousness inside his stalwart, Soviet-built, yet ultimately politically indifferent blocks of poured concrete, he would have thought it likely that Bandit C acquired the aforementioned firearm by equally unfair means, and in sheer, Chernarussian rage would have uprooted himself from his aged, moss encrusted base, and crushed Bandit C in a final expression of true, wall-based justice.

[BL1P 252]

Still here I see. I have already made it clear that you are far too new to this to know what you are talking about' date=' as is anyone that argues for 3rd person.

I'm probably abandoning this thread, because it's depressing to see how low the average skill and intelligence level is of these new players.

I leave you all with one suggestion, and I don't want to hear more of your uninformed nonsense until you try it.

Play on a veteran/expert server for a day, with forced 1st person on.

It is more immersive.

It is more realistic.

It requires greater skill and you will become a much better player very quickly, to the point where you will not need and NOT WANT 3rd person.

It is fairer.

It is more fun.

Enough hot air, try it and learn kids.

[/quote']

You are SO fucking arrogant and high-minded. Get off your high horse and realize that you NEVER have to play with anyone that uses 3rd by staying on your 3rd disabled server!

What makes you think you should be able to choose for other people what they can and cannot do? ITS AN OPTIONAL THING. IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU. BUGGER OFF.

I would like to address this section :- ITS AN OPTIONAL THING. IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU. BUGGER OFF.

ITS AN OPTIONAL THING. - Its optional yes.

IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU. But it does effect others. This was explained multiple times if you cant grasp that concept its not anyone's fault but your own.

BUGGER OFF.Although I like a bit of anal sex now and again I don't feel its your place to tell me I should get off on anal sex. Thanks for the thought though. I am thinking of you too.

[ryansongy@hotmail.com 27]

What makes you think you should be able to choose for other people what they can and cannot do? ITS AN OPTIONAL THING. IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU. BUGGER OFF.

It isn't about me choosing for other people' date=' it is about universal fairness for a mod that will eventually become a final release MMORPG, where persistance matters, and because of player permadeath, that people might be able to kill you with equipment that they acquired by unfair means, and by using an exploit so in an unfair way, the game becomes broken, regardless of whether you use first or third person.

ESPECIALLY if they decide to introduce a pay-monthly or pay-for-content system, which they may well do.

Please watch your language, or I will report you to a moderator. Grow up, this is a suggestion thread, not a place for adolescents to redirect their sexual frustration.

[/quote']

Arrogance rolls off of you in torrents. Comments about 'adolescents redirecting their sexual frustration' makes you seem the childish one here, much more so than a single use of the F-word.

If you'd like I can link to plenty of quotes from rocket saying how the game is not and never will be balanced, and that this isn't a game in the traditional sense. It's art. A social experiment. The thought of this being a pay to play MMO would probably make rocket sick to his stomach.

3rd is about as fair as having NVGs on a night server. Shall I remove the choice you have to use NVGs when you remove the choice players have to play how they want?

[Miragenz 71]

But its something many players want, and at the same time you can also benefit from this, so it doesnt give anyone an unfair advantage.

[BL1P 252]

What makes you think you should be able to choose for other people what they can and cannot do? ITS AN OPTIONAL THING. IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU. BUGGER OFF.

It isn't about me choosing for other people' date=' it is about universal fairness for a mod that will eventually become a final release MMORPG, where persistance matters, and because of player permadeath, that people might be able to kill you with equipment that they acquired by unfair means, and by using an exploit so in an unfair way, the game becomes broken, regardless of whether you use first or third person.

ESPECIALLY if they decide to introduce a pay-monthly or pay-for-content system, which they may well do.

Please watch your language, or I will report you to a moderator. Grow up, this is a suggestion thread, not a place for adolescents to redirect their sexual frustration.

[/quote']

Arrogance rolls off of you in torrents. Comments about 'adolescents redirecting their sexual frustration' makes you seem the childish one here, much more so than a single use of the F-word.

If you'd like I can link to plenty of quotes from rocket saying how the game is not and never will be balanced, and that this isn't a game in the traditional sense. It's art. A social experiment. The thought of this being a pay to play MMO would probably make rocket sick to his stomach.

3rd is about as fair as having NVGs on a night server. Shall I remove the choice you have to use NVGs when you remove the choice players have to play how they want?

" 3rd is about as fair as having NVGs on a night server. "

If the nvgs allow you to look "THROUGH" walls as 3rd does then the nvgs are glitched/exploitable and should be removed

But as the nvgs do not do that your argument is flawed.

Anything else ?

[ryansongy@hotmail.com 27]

ITS AN OPTIONAL THING. - Its optional yes.

IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU. But it does effect others. This was explained multiple times if you cant grasp that concept its not anyone's fault but your own.

Convenient how you switched from only caring about people coming to your server with 'ill-gotten-gains' to caring about how this might actually affect anyone besides yourself.

---

If the nvgs allow you to look "THROUGH" walls as 3rd does then the nvgs are glitched/exploitable and should be removed

But as the nvgs do not do that your argument is flawed.

Anything else ?

You dodged my point, allow me to state it in a different way.

Someone with NVGs at night vs. someone without NVGs at night is about as balanced as someone using 3rd vs. someone not using 3rd. In fact blindess is a bit more of a disadvantage than being able to see through/around walls at certain angles in certain situations.

And rocket has NO INTENTION of nerfing NVGs in any way.

[BL1P 252]

But its something many players want' date=' and at the same time you can also benefit from this, so it doesnt give anyone an unfair advantage.

[/quote']

Good point m8 I agree

So back to the original post ....

Option 2

none swapping of chars from different types of difficulty servers .

So you get 1 char per type of server !!!

be that 3rd on or 3rd off .

3rd users are happy

and

None 3rd users are happy

Whats the problem with that idea ?

---

ITS AN OPTIONAL THING. - Its optional yes.

IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU. But it does effect others. This was explained multiple times if you cant grasp that concept its not anyone's fault but your own.

Convenient how you switched from only caring about people coming to your server with 'ill-gotten-gains' to caring about how this might actually affect anyone besides yourself.

---

If the nvgs allow you to look "THROUGH" walls as 3rd does then the nvgs are glitched/exploitable and should be removed

But as the nvgs do not do that your argument is flawed.

Anything else ?

You dodged my point' date=' allow me to state it in a different way.

Someone with NVGs at night vs. someone without NVGs at night is about as balanced as someone using 3rd vs. someone not using 3rd. In fact blindess is a bit more of a disadvantage than being able to see through/around walls at certain angles in certain situations.

And rocket has NO INTENTION of nerfing NVGs in any way.

[/quote']

O dear dear dear

I haven't switched my views at all. when I say others I include myself.

using a fairly gained pair of nvgs on a person who doesn't have the nvgs has no connection to a person using an exploit of the game to look through a solid wall to see a player on the other side.

If you can not understand that simple concept.........

" I have no words that would be appropriate to express my dismay. "