Removal of 3rd person view exploit

[7-75 callaghan 43]

@Callaghan

Awesome post m8 I thought i was reading something by Terry Pratchett or Douglas Adams ....

Nicely done :)

Haha thanks, that's flattering. I had fun with it.

[diepepsi@gmail.com 22]

its a 'fact' lol...

btw, problem with survivor A? Hes running, out in the open... no wonder someone CAMPING with a kill zone took him out. Maybe all the walls, buildings and trees should be removed, and players should have a large red arrow hovering above them so that we all know exactly where people are.

What is this, some type of Wii game?

[7-75 callaghan 43]

its a 'fact' lol...

btw' date=' problem with survivor A? Hes running, out in the open... no wonder someone CAMPING with a kill zone took him out. Maybe all the walls, buildings and trees should be removed, and players should have a large red arrow hovering above them so that we all know exactly where people are.

What is this, some type of Wii game?

[/quote']

Really? That is what you are able to deduce from my post, and driven to suggest?

People like you make me want to offer myself willingly to the Zeds, naked and covered in honey, or whatever their preferred human-dipping sauce is.

Seriously, I don't like being mean, but it sounds like the Zeds might have taken a bite from your cranium that you have not yet noticed.

[dallas 5195]

Btw let's not tell OP about command view, he'll suffer a total melt down.

[BL1P 252]

Btw let's not tell OP about command view' date=' he'll suffer a total melt down.

[/quote']

OP has been playing this for 11 years :)

OP knows about the Command view :)

[alexander_q 6]

Really? That is what you are able to deduce from my post' date=' and driven to suggest?

People like you make me want to offer myself willingly to the Zeds, naked and covered in honey, or whatever their preferred human-dipping sauce is.

[/quote']

I lol'd hard.

It seems that many problems could be solved by not having players be persistent between servers. One character per server.

[Ag3nt Richt3r 19]

:)

Thanks

I wasn't only advocating the MOD-Forced none 3rd only I also suggested that ones character would not be transferable from one type of difficulty server to another.

This to me would remove any one gaining unfair loot and seems like a steady progression from beginner servers to more advanced ones.

No disrespect is meant by the above comment its just how bis created the levels of difficulty Regular begins with 3rd' date=' tags, map markers etc etc

And Expert / Mercenary has all those elements removed.

But quite a few took umbrage at this suggestion :P

[/quote']

I know all the arguments on why people want 3rd on some servers.

Here is why it shouldn't be on in DayZ

It is and can be used as an exploit to see through' date=' over or around objects you should not be able to see through, over or around in a FPS PVP modded game.

Using the 3rd view exploit on one server then coming to a no exploit server with loot gained from an exploit is tantamount to cheating.

To combat the exploits I would suggest one of the two following things.

1: make all DayZ servers one playing type with none of the exploits of 3rd or tags etcetc.

This method makes all servers 1 difficulty setting and would create an even playing field across all severs.

OR

2: Stop the ability to swap from one difficulty server to different difficulty server.

This method would allow players who prefer the 3rd or tags exploits for what ever reasons to continue using 3rd etc but would allow the people who want

untainted loot none exploit servers to have that aswell.

Obviously playing on none 3rd would mean you cannot goto 3rd using servers aswell.

[/quote']

I take 'umbrage' to you claiming that using 3rd person is an exploit, when it is in FACT, a game mechanic.

I also take 'umbrage' to your wild and fanciful claims about mythical players switch between 3rd person and non-3rd person servers just to grab loot and go pwn some nubs....

I'm all for the idea of characters 'built' on a server with a specific difficulty being limited to use on other servers with that same difficulty, but it has NOTHING to do with your 3rd person view = hacking cheater exploiter logic.

[humbleuk 76]

can't belive people are lobbying the "cheating" theory, lame as fuck.

[BL1P 252]

Really? That is what you are able to deduce from my post' date=' and driven to suggest?

People like you make me want to offer myself willingly to the Zeds, naked and covered in honey, or whatever their preferred human-dipping sauce is.

[/quote']

I lol'd hard.

It seems that many problems could be solved by not having players be persistent between servers. One character per server.

Yes one char per server would eliminate allot of the problems.

---

:)

Thanks

I wasn't only advocating the MOD-Forced none 3rd only I also suggested that ones character would not be transferable from one type of difficulty server to another.

This to me would remove any one gaining unfair loot and seems like a steady progression from beginner servers to more advanced ones.

No disrespect is meant by the above comment its just how bis created the levels of difficulty Regular begins with 3rd' date=' tags, map markers etc etc

And Expert / Mercenary has all those elements removed.

But quite a few took umbrage at this suggestion :P

[/quote']

I know all the arguments on why people want 3rd on some servers.

Here is why it shouldn't be on in DayZ

It is and can be used as an exploit to see through' date=' over or around objects you should not be able to see through, over or around in a FPS PVP modded game.

Using the 3rd view exploit on one server then coming to a no exploit server with loot gained from an exploit is tantamount to cheating.

To combat the exploits I would suggest one of the two following things.

1: make all DayZ servers one playing type with none of the exploits of 3rd or tags etcetc.

This method makes all servers 1 difficulty setting and would create an even playing field across all severs.

OR

2: Stop the ability to swap from one difficulty server to different difficulty server.

This method would allow players who prefer the 3rd or tags exploits for what ever reasons to continue using 3rd etc but would allow the people who want

untainted loot none exploit servers to have that aswell.

Obviously playing on none 3rd would mean you cannot goto 3rd using servers aswell.

[/quote']

I take 'umbrage' to you claiming that using 3rd person is an exploit, when it is in FACT, a game mechanic.

I also take 'umbrage' to your wild and fanciful claims about mythical players switch between 3rd person and non-3rd person servers just to grab loot and go pwn some nubs....

I'm all for the idea of characters 'built' on a server with a specific difficulty being limited to use on other servers with that same difficulty, but it has NOTHING to do with your 3rd person view = hacking cheater exploiter logic.

At no point was i trying to say that using 3rd alone is an exploit sorry if it came across as such.

I was attempting to get across that using 3rd to exploit is possible and does happen even when the user doesn't realise this.

One of the ways was explained quite eloquently by Callaghan.

If you misunderstood my posts or my terminology led you to misinterpret them, Sorry and i hope this cleared it up for you.

Im glad you agreed with option 2 though I feel all warm now :P

[dallas 5195]

With the server hopping and ghosting, I'd be willing to entertain that idea.

[7-75 callaghan 43]

The last thread that discussed this was locked by a mod. Unfairly it seems and a personal peev of his. It really isn't as simple as 'go play on another server'. As these are fundamental gameplay elements that affect important current and future mechanics of the mod, hitscan name tags to name just one. I wish the mods would actually learn the game a little better before getting all uppity about things they don't understand very well. No offence, I just don't want to see this thread locked for the same reasons.

[filip_vdm@hotmail.com 13]

I know all the arguments on why people want 3rd on some servers.

Here is why it shouldn't be on in DayZ

It is and can be used as an exploit to see through' date=' over or around objects you should not be able to see through, over or around in a FPS PVP modded game.

Using the 3rd view exploit on one server then coming to a no exploit server with loot gained from an exploit is tantamount to cheating.

To combat the exploits I would suggest one of the two following things.

1: make all DayZ servers one playing type with none of the exploits of 3rd or tags etcetc.

This method makes all servers 1 difficulty setting and would create an even playing field across all severs.

OR

2: Stop the ability to swap from one difficulty server to different difficulty server.

This method would allow players who prefer the 3rd or tags exploits for what ever reasons to continue using 3rd etc but would allow the people who want

untainted loot none exploit servers to have that aswell.

Obviously playing on none 3rd would mean you cannot goto 3rd using servers aswell.

[/quote']

How is a server feature in any regards an exploit....

Go to a mercenary server with a non-edited difficulty file or rent your own like I did.

[7-75 callaghan 43]

How is a server feature in any regards an exploit....

Go to a mercenary server with a non-edited difficulty file or rent your own like I did.

Read my little story post a few back to see just one of many examples of how it can be used as an exploit, unfair to one player, even though both are using third person.

[JayMeHD 26]

The only reason I play on 3DP=1 servers is because first person on this game is shockingly bad.

Trying to aim is ridiculous.

[Athaleon 0]

If 3rd-person is an exploit, so are peripheral dots, turning off head bob, and changing servers when the one you log into is at night time.

[alexander_q 6]

If 3rd-person is an exploit' date=' so are peripheral dots, turning off head bob, and changing servers when the one you log into is at night time.

[/quote']

You say that like it would be ridiculous to suggest curbing such behaviours. It's not.

[Psyl3nt 125]

Yes and we should so something about the shooting exploit, you know the one where one player has a gun and the other does not, this is clearly unfair to the player than does not have a gun, and any loot gained by the player who does have a gun is an exploit because even though the other player has the same opportunity to get a gun....oh....hang on...

Or is it like the "exploit" of joining only servers that are in Daytime, does this not give an advantage to the players that do this, while those who play at night are disadvantaged ?

Or perhaps the "ping" exploit, one player has a lower ping than me, that gives them an advantage, so you know... we should make all servers only allow people of the same ping to join otherwise it's "exploiting" ....

Just because something has an advantage does not make it an "exploit".

Might as well say that using a better gun than your opponent is an "exploit".

this makes no sense, much as your call for a part of the game engine to be called an exploit (do you know what that word means) and for it to be removed. . . .

ridiculous, being in 3rd person gives you no "extra" loot, or any better ability to find said loot. It has no bearing on aquiring items, the only thing it provides is a better view point for you too see what is around you.

The first person perspective of the ArmaII engine, is very flawed, to the point where it does not appear that ArmaII was meant to be a first person shooter at all, (which it isn't), others using a 3rd person mode has very little impact on you or anyone else, this argument of "using it to gain loot" is completly ridiculous.

[BL1P 252]

(do you know what that word means)

An exploit, in video games, is the use of a bug or design flaw including glitches. Exploits have been classified as a form of cheating; however, the precise determination of what is or is not considered an exploit can be controversial. This debate stems from a number of factors but typically involves the argument that the issues are part of the game and require no changes or external programs to take advantage of them.

Yes I do know.

Mainly from beta testing games, learning from those experiences and from the feed back from games developers with explanations on what would be an exploit or cheat.

Do you ?

[Psyl3nt 125]

yeah, I learned in a different way, I'm a programmer . .. So have first hand experience on what is and what is NOT an exp loit. I didn't just google a definition, well done though, now all you need to do is understand it.

[7-75 callaghan 43]

Big deal you are a programmer. The word 'exploit' is a word known to anyone with a basic understanding of English, and to use 3rd person in many ways, such as to see over cover, is to exploit it. Plain, simple, objective fact.

[BL1P 252]

yeah' date=' I learned in a different way, I'm a programmer . .. So have first hand experience on what is and what is NOT an exp loit. I didn't just google a definition, well done though, now all you need to do is understand it.

[/quote']

I do understand it.

Thank you for your concern though.

I have first hand experience aswell.

The definition as you know was taken from wiki and is correct.

From what has been explained to me by game developers anyway.

maybe they, myself and the wiki are all wrong and your right.. in that case sorry to bother you :)

[Psyl3nt 125]

Again you have completely mis-understoon the term, to see over cover is an intended use of the ability to be in 3rd person. Working as Intended does not equal exploit.

Does this give an advantage to a player in that mode, over someone who is not, yes, is it using an in-game feature to gain "unfair" advantage, no, it would be unfair if only a couple players are able to enter 3rd person, but since everyone on the server is able to do the same, it provides no "extra" to anyone. A player "choosing" not to use it for things like seeing over cover is willingly disadvantaging themselves, they are not "put" into that situation by anyone else.

It also has no bearing at all on the spawing of loot, in frequency, or ease of finding, someone in 3rd person may have to walk a couple fewer steps to see into the area, but if they want to gain the items inside they still have to walk the same path as anyone else regardless of the viewpoint.

Your argument that being on a server that allows it and then moving to a server that does not providing an "advantage" simply does not compute.

They still would have had to travel the same distance to get the same loot regardless of view. It in no way affects the engine or Mods intended workings.

Issues like "seeing through walls", are specific to the game engine, they have little to do with the Mod, I have not seen this myself, and I frequently use 3rd person, the movement in 1st person is very "clunky" due to the engine, and it is much smoother to move in this mode.

When you aim your weapon you gain nothing extra from being in 3rd person mode, it zooms to the same iron sight as if you are in 1st person mode.

Aiming in 1st person mode on vetran servers is actually easier from the hip, in 3rd person mode your characters "center" is a little offset so it makes it harder to shoot from the hip, by you logic, this makes 1st person mode an exploit on vetran servers that have both. . .

In fact by your logic someone having a better computer than you is an "exploit" because it gives them an advantage of some description.

Again, advantage does not equal exploit. And your so called "objective fact" (lol) is your own personal opinion which is in no way based on anything "factual" or even remotely sensible.

(Any developer would say the same thing, I simply do not believe that anyone has "told" you anything about what is and what is not an exploit, your just saying it to attempt to add credence to a highly flawed illogical argument).

Perhaps me being a programmer and not agreeing with you should indicate just what "developers" think about this. . . . .

The beaty for me is, I am not here representing a company or product, so I can say what I think without marring any projects.

Typically the end users are completely lacking in any comprehension of these things, and they go on tirades about things that affect only them, and attempt, such as in your case, to present non-sensical arguments as facts.

Googleing a definition or finding it on Wiki are the same thing, you just searched for a definition to something because you clearly do not understand what it means, otherwise you would have been able to iterate what it is without the search / copy paste.

[7-75 callaghan 43]

Again you have completely mis-understoon the term' date=' to see over cover is an intended use of the ability to be in 3rd person. Working as Intended does not equal exploit.

Does this give an advantage to a player in that mode, over someone who is not, yes, is it using an in-game feature to gain "unfair" advantage, no, it would be unfair if only a couple players are able to enter 3rd person, but since everyone on the server is able to do the same, it provides no "extra" to anyone. A player "choosing" not to use it for things like seeing over cover is willingly disadvantaging themselves, they are not "put" into that situation by anyone else.

It also has no bearing at all on the spawing of loot, in frequency, or ease of finding, someone in 3rd person may have to walk a couple fewer steps to see into the area, but if they want to gain the items inside they still have to walk the same path as anyone else regardless of the viewpoint.

Your argument that being on a server that allows it and then moving to a server that does not providing an "advantage" simply does not compute.

They still would have had to travel the same distance to get the same loot regardless of view. It in no way affects the engine or Mods intended workings.

Issues like "seeing through walls", are specific to the game engine, they have little to do with the Mod, I have not seen this myself, and I frequently use 3rd person, the movement in 1st person is very "clunky" due to the engine, and it is much smoother to move in this mode.

When you aim your weapon you gain nothing extra from being in 3rd person mode, it zooms to the same iron sight as if you are in 1st person mode.

Aiming in 1st person mode on vetran servers is actually easier from the hip, in 3rd person mode your characters "center" is a little offset so it makes it harder to shoot from the hip, by you logic, this makes 1st person mode an exploit on vetran servers that have both. . .

In fact by your logic someone having a better computer than you is an "exploit" because it gives them an advantage of some description.

Again, advantage does not equal exploit. And your so called "objective fact" (lol) is your own personal opinion which is in no way based on anything "factual" or even remotely sensible.

[/quote']

Go back a page or two and read my example. I tried to make it entertaining as well as clear, so as to avoid offending the delicate sensibilities of those unable to understand the concept of realism.

That example is just one of many. Besides, you also mention shooting from third person, this would require crosshairs, something utterly ridiculous in a game like this.

Until you have read the post I am referring to, and have understood it, you haven't a leg to stand on.

[BwickFS39 9]

Really? That is what you are able to deduce from my post' date=' and driven to suggest?

People like you make me want to offer myself willingly to the Zeds, naked and covered in honey, or whatever their preferred human-dipping sauce is.

[/quote']

I lol'd hard.

It seems that many problems could be solved by not having players be persistent between servers. One character per server.

Yes one char per server would eliminate allot of the problems.

---

:)

Thanks

I wasn't only advocating the MOD-Forced none 3rd only I also suggested that ones character would not be transferable from one type of difficulty server to another.

This to me would remove any one gaining unfair loot and seems like a steady progression from beginner servers to more advanced ones.

No disrespect is meant by the above comment its just how bis created the levels of difficulty Regular begins with 3rd' date=' tags, map markers etc etc

And Expert / Mercenary has all those elements removed.

But quite a few took umbrage at this suggestion :P

[/quote']

I know all the arguments on why people want 3rd on some servers.

Here is why it shouldn't be on in DayZ

It is and can be used as an exploit to see through' date=' over or around objects you should not be able to see through, over or around in a FPS PVP modded game.

Using the 3rd view exploit on one server then coming to a no exploit server with loot gained from an exploit is tantamount to cheating.

To combat the exploits I would suggest one of the two following things.

1: make all DayZ servers one playing type with none of the exploits of 3rd or tags etcetc.

This method makes all servers 1 difficulty setting and would create an even playing field across all severs.

OR

2: Stop the ability to swap from one difficulty server to different difficulty server.

This method would allow players who prefer the 3rd or tags exploits for what ever reasons to continue using 3rd etc but would allow the people who want

untainted loot none exploit servers to have that aswell.

Obviously playing on none 3rd would mean you cannot goto 3rd using servers aswell.

[/quote']

I take 'umbrage' to you claiming that using 3rd person is an exploit, when it is in FACT, a game mechanic.

I also take 'umbrage' to your wild and fanciful claims about mythical players switch between 3rd person and non-3rd person servers just to grab loot and go pwn some nubs....

I'm all for the idea of characters 'built' on a server with a specific difficulty being limited to use on other servers with that same difficulty, but it has NOTHING to do with your 3rd person view = hacking cheater exploiter logic.

At no point was i trying to say that using 3rd alone is an exploit sorry if it came across as such.

I was attempting to get across that using 3rd to exploit is possible and does happen even when the user doesn't realise this.

One of the ways was explained quite eloquently by Callaghan.

If you misunderstood my posts or my terminology led you to misinterpret them, Sorry and i hope this cleared it up for you.

Im glad you agreed with option 2 though I feel all warm now :P

Your title says it now your back tracking and trying to mislead people, and quit acting like you know inside and out of the gaming industry. obviously you haven't herd that the BIS devs say that in ways including the fact you have peripheral vision third person is a lot more realistic then first person. BTW I quote the whole thing I don't go around taking people out of context

[Psyl3nt 125]

I think I'm just going to end this with :Your an idiot. Sorry but you miss the point completely and have no desire to understand what is and what is not exploiting.

I have read your little "story" and that's all it is, a story.... Again for what ? the 4th time maybe = Advantage does not equal exploit, comprehend that, and you'll do much better.