No "Specialized" Cartridges [Torchia Tweet]

[mastrplokoon@yahoo.com 8]

5.45x39 and 7.62x39 are so insanely different its not even funny.

 

The ak74 is a flatter shooting rifle allowing for more precise medium distance shooting much like the m16 and m4.

 

Meanwhile while the ak47 is pretty powerful it has more bullet drop making longer range shots more difficult.

 

5.45x39 muzzle velocity = 2,920 ft/s

7.62x39 muzzle velocity = 2,356 ft/s

 

Pretty big difference this allows for the ak74 to be more of a point and shoot weapon that is better for medium distance.

 

 

Thanks for the clarification. I knew they were different just not the exact details.

[mastrplokoon@yahoo.com 8]

AKMs are still pretty standard in many former warsaw pact nations. Granted, many of them have been heavily supplanted by newer AK designs or other guns altogether, but you'd be hard pressed to find countries without stocks of AKMs available (Whether in service or not). Hell, even Russia still has the AKM in limited service, and I'm sure they'll keep racks of them in storage for years to come.

But in Arma 2 canon the AK-74 was the Chernarussian rifle of service and only a few soldiers, mainly militia, had the AKM/AKMS. However, the Guerillas and Insurgents made extensive use of the AKMs and AK-74s, so canonically speaking both are incredibly fitting to the scenario.

Both are honestly necessary to have a good set of rifles in the game, 5.45x39mm and 7.62x39mm open up a huge variety of weapons available.

 

I was trying to justify it without using Chernarus history because Chernarus history justifies it completely.

[gibonez 3633]

Thanks for the clarification. I knew they were different just not the exact details.

 

Yea ballisticly they are worlds apart.

 

This is the root cause of why I dont like the decision to not have certain calibers in the game.

 

Something like a .22-250 for example screams out of a gun at 4500 + fps vs say a 7.62x54r out of a mosin at 2600 fps.

 

Ballisticly these two rounds are so insanely different the time it would take each to reach their targets would be so insanely different, the amount of drop between the two rounds would be crazy different and how much wind affects each round is also vastly different.

 

Having every rifle either perform like a .308 or a 5.56 kinda makes me sad.

[Katana67 2907]

Just as I suspected (read the last line)

Nothing to worry about :)

 

And he's right, for the moment we probably have enough pistols, and there are plenty of 9x19mm and .45 SMGs we can have before the PPSh-41/PPS-43/K-50M.

 

(Don't kill me because I want a Vector, too)

 

Very informative, thank you.

 

The only rounds that I think we need in the future are a hunting round (whatever that may be), a dedicated "sniper rifle" round (hopefully .338 LM), and/or 7.62x54R (I actually wouldn't be opposed to having 7.62x54R as the hunting round).

 

That way, they can have the big-boy "civilian/hunting" weapons like the Longhorn fire a different round from say, a high-end GPMG or battle rifle. Likewise, they can make more "common" weapons like the Mosin and assumedly the SVD, fire 7.62x54R.

 

5.45x39 I don't think we need, as we've already got 7.62x39 and most of the weapons chambered in 5.45x39 also have 7.62x39 counterparts. But, I wouldn't mind it.

 

The issue for me now, isn't that we have "matching" calibers. Or a plethora of calibers. It's that we have a lot, granted, but not enough for the ammunition in-game to be tweaked adequately later on. We only really need three or four new calibers for this to happen in my opinion.

 

There are unrepresented calibers out there, with vast families of weapons which can be chambered in said calibers. I just think those need to be implemented, before we talk about calibers which do not have diverse families of weapons.

 

I don't think .410 gauge is the way to go now, but, it's as good as any I guess.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Katana67

[-Gews- 7443]

I don't think .410 gauge is the way to go now, but, it's as good as any I guess.

It's hard to think of how adding .410 shotshells would allow them to add a bunch of interesting guns to the game... unless... no... couldn't be...

I swear, if I ever see a gun that has the word "Judge" in its name I will uninstall immediately. :lol:

[gibonez 3633]

 

I don't think .410 gauge is the way to go now, but, it's as good as any I guess.

 

.410 is a really cool round lauded after in the survival community.

 

 

The .410 can be used from anything like disposing of a snake to taking out a deer with .410 slugs.

 

Lots of survival guns use .410 shotgun shells such as the m6 survival rifle above an .22lr + .410 combo gun.

 

Then theres the very popular Taurus judge and SW governor.

 

 

Able to take both .410 buckshot + slugs and .45 colt rounds.

 

 

.410 is just one of those survival rounds that gives preppers a wet dream.

 

It would really fit dayz if they continue with their low tech , civilian survival motif .

 

The taurus judge in particular would be an awesome addition because it would justify adding in a Colt SAA

[mastrplokoon@yahoo.com 8]

The only things that I know are chambered in .410 are Saigas.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Flembo

[Katana67 2907]

.410 is a really cool round lauded after in the survival community.

 

The .410 can be used from anything like disposing of a snake to taking out a deer with .410 slugs.

 

Lots of survival guns use .410 shotgun shells such as the m6 survival rifle above an .22lr + .410 combo gun.

 

Then theres the very popular Taurus judge and SW governor.

 

Able to take both .410 buckshot + slugs and .45 colt rounds.

 

.410 is just one of those survival rounds that gives preppers a wet dream.

 

It would really fit dayz if they continue with their low tech , civilian survival motif .

 

The taurus judge in particular would be an awesome addition because it would justify adding in a Colt SAA

 

 

Yep it's a cool round. Just not sure they really need it now.

[gibonez 3633]

Yep it's a cool round. Just not sure they really need it now.

 

No but in the future it could be nice.

 

Would be a better addition than say adding a .338 lapua or a 5.7 or some other crazy expensive round that is not really used much outside of a few select circles.

 

The .410 is particularly good because it would allow the inclusing of 2 calibers in one shot.

 

.410 means .45 long colt could also be added because as far as I know every .410 shotgun or revolver can also fire .45 lc.

[Katana67 2907]

Would be a better addition than say adding a .338 lapua or a 5.7 or some other crazy expensive round that is not really used much outside of a few select circles.

 

There's nothing crazy about .338 LM in DayZ. 

 

.338 LM would make for a great, great, dedicated sniper rifle round that would be open to a wide variety of sniper rifles and big game rifles, which are really too many to list. Plus, it's not like 7.62x51 which is used in everything from break-action pistols to GPMGs.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Katana67

[gibonez 3633]

There's nothing crazy about .338 LM in DayZ. 

 

.338 LM would make for a great, great, dedicated sniper rifle round that would be open to a wide variety of sniper rifles and big game rifles, which are really too many to list. Plus, it's not like 7.62x51 which is used in everything from break-action pistols to GPMGs.

 

There are far better more common rounds that would fit that role and would make more sense.

 

300 win mag, 9.3×64mm Brenneke , .270 win, .30-06 especially would make alot of sense.

[Katana67 2907]

There are far better more common rounds that would fit that role and would make more sense.

 

300 win mag, 9.3×64mm Brenneke , .270 win, .30-06 especially would make alot of sense.

 

.300 WM is the only one that'd "make sense" in my mind. Most .338 LM weapons are also able to be chambered in .300 WM. Doesn't matter to me, either one makes just as much sense to me as the other.

 

The others are pretty well reserved for hunting purposes, whereas .300 WM and .338 LM see widespread use in hunting and military long-range platforms (which would justify my intended use for .338 LM/.300 WM, in "high-end" sniper rifles).

Edited May 25, 2014 by Katana67

[gibonez 3633]

.300 WM is the only one that'd "make sense" in my mind. Most .338 LM weapons are also able to be chambered in .300 WM. Doesn't matter to me, either one makes just as much sense to me as the other.

 

The others are pretty well reserved for hunting purposes, whereas .300 WM and .338 LM see widespread use in hunting and military long-range platforms.

 

When you say dedicated sniper weapon what are you talking about ?

 

A caliber that is useful past 800m-1000m ?

 

If that is what you mean then the most common yet extremely effective round for those ranges would be the .243 win it is used extensively in long range target matches due to its amazing ballistics , availability of ammo and its super flat trajectory.

 

.243 win can stretch its legs out past 1200m yet its readily available and extremely popular for hunting all over the world.

[Bororm 1156]

Too bad the network bubble is only 1000m so players don't render in past that, I'm gonna miss really long range sniping :[

It's a bit of a kick in the balls too because the draw distance in the SA is gorgeous compared to the mod.

 

Still look forward to not having to land a bunch of consecutive shots though.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Bororm

[Katana67 2907]

-snip-

 

Yep, but not military sniper rifles. Which is what I'm referring to.

 

As I said, .300 WM and .338 LM have both military and hunting applications. Making it a more flexible "high end long range sniper rifle" round for DayZ in my mind, as it's available for a wider variety of sniper rifles.

[gibonez 3633]

Yep, but not military sniper rifles. Which is what I'm referring to.

 

As I said, .300 WM and .338 LM have both military and hunting applications. Making it a more flexible "high end long range sniper rifle" round for DayZ in my mind, as it's available for a wider variety of sniper rifles.

 

 

Ic now. If we are talking strictly military sniper rifles the .300 win mag would definitely fit the bill as it is probably far more common within the military.

 

It also has the upside of being more popular as a hunting round too.

[Katana67 2907]

Ic now. If we are talking strictly military sniper rifles the .300 win mag would definitely fit the bill as it is probably far more common within the military.

 

It also has the upside of being more popular as a hunting round too.

 

Again, I don't care which one. Either .338 LM or .300 WM would fit just fine as a dedicated sniper rifle round in DayZ.

 

They're both widely used in military and police sniper platforms, and most of the weapons that can be chambered in one, can be chambered in the other.

[-Gews- 7443]

Doesn't necessarily have to be a "military" sniper rifle. Could just as well be a hunting gun, way more hunters with .300 Win Mags than military snipers and more guns in that round as well. I assume the run-everywhere survivor would also rather carry a hunting gun than a sniper rifle because they are far lighter. Could have both in fact as they serve somewhat different roles.

Tikka T3 .300 Winchester Magnum + Leupold VX-3 4.5-14x = 7.7 lbs

Remington XM2010 system .300 Winchester Magnum = 17.5 lbs

I know which one seems more plausible to find, more aesthetically pleasing within the game and more useful for the average person...

[gibonez 3633]

Doesn't necessarily have to be a "military" sniper rifle. Could just as well be a hunting gun, way more hunters with .300 Win Mags than military snipers and more guns in that round as well. I assume the run-everywhere survivor would also rather carry a hunting gun than a sniper rifle because they are far lighter. Could have both in fact as they serve somewhat different roles.

Tikka T3 .300 Winchester Magnum + Leupold VX-3 4.5-14x = 7.7 lbs

Remington XM2010 system .300 Winchester Magnum = 17.5 lbs

I know which one seems more plausible to find, more aesthetically pleasing within the game and more useful for the average person...

 

Sad thing is there is nothing to gain from all that weight.

 

The minimum required accuracy for nearly all of the military sniper rifles are downright bad compared to civilian rifles at half the cost.

 

That xm2010 for example has shall not exceed 1.4 moa at 100yards. Meanwhile just about any Remington 700 will shoot 1 moa or under for a measly 500-700 dollars.

 

Then you got custom civilian rifle builders that can guarantee 3/8 ths of an moa at 100 yards such as GA precision. 

 

If I was ever stuck in a SHTF situation I would never want to carry a heavy military sniper rifle, give me a lightweight deer rifle any day.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

It's hard to think of how adding .410 shotshells would allow them to add a bunch of interesting guns to the game... unless... no... couldn't be...

I swear, if I ever see a gun that has the word "Judge" in its name I will uninstall immediately. :lol:

Don't worry, they'll probably call it the "Attorney" or "Executioner" and it'll be useless beyond 1-2 inches (still a quarter of a mile better than the M4A1, but well, you know...)

 

I like the Taurus Judge, though. A revolver firing shotgun shells is definitely something cool and unique, and we know how much the devs like adding cool/unique weapons (Longhorn).

 

Sad thing is there is nothing to gain from all that weight.

 

The minimum required accuracy for nearly all of the military sniper rifles are downright bad compared to civilian rifles at half the cost.

 

That xm2010 for example has shall not exceed 1.4 moa at 100yards. Meanwhile just about any Remington 700 will shoot 1 moa or under for a measly 500-700 dollars.

 

Then you got custom civilian rifle builders that can guarantee 3/8 ths of an moa at 100 yards such as GA precision. 

 

If I was ever stuck in a SHTF situation I would never want to carry a heavy military sniper rifle, give me a lightweight deer rifle any day.

You'd be better off with one. The whole reason the military uses the XM-2010 system is because of the super-customization it allows, and the fact that they only use it when they don't intend on getting into a 'shit hits the fan' situation. If they military's planning was really that bad, they have their M9/P228, and also the fact that they're elite, highly-trained special forces snipers, versus most of the people on this forum who have less experience (Plenty of people with good amount of training, and even former/active soldiers, but I doubt anyone on here was making 1KM shots in the Rangers.)

Edited May 25, 2014 by Chaingunfighter

[a_ruttle 199]

massive amounts of different calibers aren't required, however a decent amount is, that means, every caliber we have now + 5.45, 7.62x54R, 30-06, .338 9x18mm and possibly a 9.3mm for the CZ550 assuming they add it, is that too much to ask?

[Katana67 2907]

massive amounts of different calibers aren't required, however a decent amount is, that means, every caliber we have now + 5.45, 7.62x54R, 30-06, .338 9x18mm and possibly a 9.3mm for the CZ550 assuming they add it, is that too much to ask?

 

Not at all! That's why I asked for it!

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/198263-addressing-the-weapon-calibers-compromises-and-proposal/

 

Although the CZ 550 bit isn't really an issue, it can be chambered in 7.62x51.

 

I still maintain that we don't really need 9x18mm.

[infiltrator 275]

VSS vintorez is my favorite gun by far.. I sure hope they reconsider using it, as there are still known guns that use that type of ammo, like the Groza and 9A-91.

[a_ruttle 199]

Not at all! That's why I asked for it!

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/198263-addressing-the-weapon-calibers-compromises-and-proposal/

 

Although the CZ 550 bit isn't really an issue, it can be chambered in 7.62x51.

 

I still maintain that we don't really need 9x18mm.

well I feel we need a small pistol round to distinguish between Western types like the CR and russian pistols, 9x18 fits this gap fine. Same goes for 5.45 and 5.56

Edited May 31, 2014 by a_ruttle

[-Gews- 7443]

Although the CZ 550 bit isn't really an issue, it can be chambered in 7.62x51.

 

I still maintain that we don't really need 9x18mm.

 

I always found the CZ 550 amusing, in ARMA it seemed they couldn't decide what caliber it should be...

 

- the magazines were called "5x_22_LR_17_HMR"

 

- the rifle description said "9.3x62mm"

 

- the magazine description said "7x64mm"

 

- the bullets had an equal mix of the 7.62x51 and 7.62x54R properties

 

 

 

I think we do need 9x18mm though, otherwise we can't have a Makarov. There are a bunch of other handguns, machine-pistols and submachine guns that share the cartridge, more than enough to justify it, although I don't think it needs any more justification than "Makarov". In properties it's sufficiently different from 9mm.