Mechanic for Self-Defense.

[GreenJedi 0]

(I tried using the search before on this particular idea, didn't really find anything, so eh.)

Alright. So I've thought of a possible idea for self defense. I'll give an example. Say some guy comes around the corner, and shoots at you. You have the ability to kill him, but it would count as a murder. You would have to let him hit you for it to count otherwise, and if he can get the first shot on you, you'll most likely die as a result.

Now, what if we had something similar to the suppression mechanic in Battlefield 3? You have this small invisible bubble around your character. (perhaps a more, "in your direction" type thing.) Say someone fires at you. When bullets breach the bubble, they've technically taken the first shot against you, regardless of whether or not the bullet hit you directly, and as a result, if you kill them within a specific amount of time, starting from the time the bubble was breached, it counts as self-defense.

As Alexander stated, this is "intended as a mechanic to determine when self defence has occurred."

Now obviously, this has more correlation to the used to be bandit skin, and any future humanity changes. Regardless, what are you guys' opinions on this?

[Dreganius (DayZ) 55]

I like it. Sounds good to me. If I may, I'd like to add on to your idea.

When you say suppression, I also think to Red Orchestra 2; when you get shot at, you flinch, and when you get shot at too closely, you panic real bad and go into shock (similar to how you do when you get shot at in DayZ). I've found it pretty irritating that shooting in the general direction of someone you can't properly see doesn't seem to phase them at all.

I've no idea if it's even possible with ARMA2's engine, but I feel that the mechanic in RO2 was spot on when it comes to fight or flight, we're not supposed to be hardened war veterans in DayZ, so how can we take bullets flying at us without so much as a flinch? I'd heavily support any change that forces us to shake or somesuch when a bullet flies past our heads/lands in the ground at our feet with a loud "pang!"

[Soldier of Failure 14]

Dreganius, supression IS possible with Arma 2. Ace has done it, though not as good as RO 2. It pretty much makes it much harder to shoot at some fool after he has shot at you.

I agree with this topic.

[GreenJedi 0]

I like it. Sounds good to me. If I may' date=' I'd like to add on to your idea.

When you say suppression, I also think to Red Orchestra 2; when you get shot at, you flinch, and when you get shot at too closely, you panic real bad and go into shock (similar to how you do when you get shot at in DayZ). I've found it pretty irritating that shooting in the general direction of someone you can't properly see doesn't seem to phase them at all.

I've no idea if it's even possible with ARMA2's engine, but I feel that the mechanic in RO2 was spot on when it comes to fight or flight, we're not supposed to be hardened war veterans in DayZ, so how can we take bullets flying at us without so much as a flinch? I'd heavily support any change that forces us to shake or somesuch when a bullet flies past our heads/lands in the ground at our feet with a loud "pang!"

[/quote']

That's not a bad idea. It would also bring in more teamwork, instead of just "going for the kill", you may instead opting to keep the player from fighting back effectively, so even if he's behind cover, you could keep someone out of the fight for a bit.

[nivek 0]

Yeah it doesn't make any sense at all that if a bullet flies past your head you can just keep running around acting like nothing has happened. Flinching after you get shot at would be a good addition to gameplay and would make firefights more interesting. +1 to this idea.

[Dreganius (DayZ) 55]

I'm going to post constructive posts on this thread so to allow others to read it and allow the idea to develop. Let's get into the nitty gritty, how would it work, exactly? Similar to how ACE has done it? Differently? I've unfortunately never played ACE, but I have played a lot of Red Orchestra 2 so I can relate to how they've done it there.

I think that there should actually be some form of mathematical equation we can use, so the programmers know what we would like to see. Perhaps for every metre the bullet is away from you, (up to a range of about 20 metres), your aim moves by two pixels from where you were aiming it, in a random direction. The closer the bullet is to you, the more pixels your aim moves. So, if the bullet is right next to you, your aim will jump about 40 pixels from where you were aiming originally, in a single direction.

[leo235 2]

I dont know about supression, because thats an effect of nervousness, which should just naturally happen (I know were all superbadasses, but loud noises from your speakers will affect your aim in a bad way. No way around it)

But yeah, if the game could pick up that someone has aimed at you for a longer time before you shot them dead and just give you a self-defense kill that would be cool. But meh

[GreenJedi 0]

I'm going to post constructive posts on this thread so to allow others to read it and allow the idea to develop. Let's get into the nitty gritty' date=' how would it work, exactly? Similar to how ACE has done it? Differently? I've unfortunately never played ACE, but I have played a lot of Red Orchestra 2 so I can relate to how they've done it there.

[/quote']

I unfortunately have played neither Red Orchestra 2 or ACE, so I can't really compare to either.

I think that there should actually be some form of mathematical equation we can use, so the programmers know what we would like to see. Perhaps for every metre the bullet is away from you, (up to a range of about 20 metres), your aim moves by two pixels from where you were aiming it, in a random direction. The closer the bullet is to you, the more pixels your aim moves. So, if the bullet is right next to you, your aim will jump about 40 pixels from where you were aiming originally, in a single direction.

I dont know about supression' date=' because thats an effect of nervousness, which should just naturally happen (I know were all superbadasses, but loud noises from your speakers will affect your aim in a bad way. No way around it)

[/quote']

The way Battlefield 3 does it is as such, when a bullet flies by you, lands near you or hits any cover you may be hiding behind, you gain what is called suppression. What this does, is it blurs your vision slightly, and reduces your accuracy for the duration of the suppression. Now, of course this doesn't happen instantly, but it gives support players an advantage, them being the ones with LMGs, to keep on suppressive fire. Just an fyi.

But yeah, if the game could pick up that someone has aimed at you for a longer time before you shot them dead and just give you a self-defense kill that would be cool. But meh

That could also play into it. I mean hey, anything to justify killing someone, eh? :P

[Nyarhra 0]

+1 I do like it and maybe the effects should be multiplied for unarmed and melee characters

[ApeToe 3]

Suppression is already a part of ARMA, without the need for any mods. Have someone shoot past your head and see how easy it is to aim.

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

are you asking for a force field?

[alexander_q 6]

I think this thread was intended as a mechanic to determine when self defence has occurred. This method sounds good. As for suppression, I'd prefer a full fledged cover system to incentivise blind-fire.

[leo235 2]

I dont know about supression' date=' because thats an effect of nervousness, which should just naturally happen (I know were all superbadasses, but loud noises from your speakers will affect your aim in a bad way. No way around it)

The way Battlefield 3 does it is as such, when a bullet flies by you, lands near you or hits you cover, you gain what is called suppression. What this does it blurs your vision slightly, and reduces your accuracy for the duration of the suppression. Now, of course this doesn't happen instantly, but it gives support players an advantage, them being the ones with LMGs, to keep on suppressive fire. Just an fyi.

Yeah I know that, but I already get nervous IRL when I get shot at, I dont need the game to give me the nervousnesslevel it deems right. If you follow that line your shots shouldnt always hit where your rifle points, because you might perceive that wrong. Skill should remain skill.

But yeah, if the game could pick up that someone has aimed at you for a longer time before you shot them dead and just give you a self-defense kill that would be cool. But meh

That could also play into it. I mean hey, anything to justify killing someone, eh? :P

Theyd get shot anyways, its just we arent murderers for protecting our lives preemptively just like the USA arent this evil nation that murders 1000s of people in self-defence amIright?

[GreenJedi 0]

Suppression is already a part of ARMA' date=' without the need for any mods. Have someone shoot past your head and see how easy it is to aim.

[/quote']

Yes, but it sounds like you're missing the point of the OP tbh. :s

---

are you asking for a force field?

Someone didn't read the post properly. :dodgy:

No. I'm trying to add on to the self defense mechanic' date=' so the game doesn't just drop your humanity because you had to fight back.

[hr']

I think this thread was intended as a mechanic to determine when self defence has occurred.

Yes' date=' thank you. I might just edit the OP to reflect that. :D

[hr']

Yeah I know that' date=' but I already get nervous IRL when I get shot at, I dont need the game to give me the nervousnesslevel it deems right. If you follow that line your shots shouldnt always hit where your rifle points, because you might perceive that wrong. Skill should remain skill.

[/quote']

Well of course. Only makes sense.

Theyd get shot anyways, its just we arent murderers for protecting our lives preemptively just like the USA arent this evil nation that murders 1000s of people in self-defence amIright?

I was sorta joking, but I understand what you mean. Not gonna throw in my opinion though, since that's a sensitive topic. :P

[leo235 2]

@greenjedi

All you say is right. Didnt really fully completely intend to draw you into an argument about sensitive topics, but dont you think that the idea of a god is kind of an immoral thing in itself?

[GreenJedi 0]

@greenjedi

All you say is right. Didnt really fully completely intend to draw you into an argument about sensitive topics' date=' but dont you think that the idea of a god is kind of an immoral thing in itself?

[/quote']

I don't view it as immoral, just something to believe in. Something to give reason to things that can't be explained easily. Something to fight for. But religion is a volatile subject. There's always someone with a few screws loose who will take their life and others for what they believe in, as with other things. I personally respect God, Jesus, and whatnot in the idealogical sense, but I don't take them seriously. Not to let it cloud my judgement.

[GreenJedi 0]

Bump.

[3rdparty 229]

Yeeea i think this deserves a bump.

Read this thread ages ago, and tbh it made me think its a mechanic that should be used more in a lot of scenarios/items. Its already applied to direct comm and chemlights. I think it should be applied to the name tags issue aswell. (ie youll recognise a friend/foe face at certain distance, so name and color will pop up accordingly within that proximity)

Even if its a misfire scenario, technically it may of been able to kill you, and technically this is an environment riddled with paranoia and strangers :S not to mention zeds.

maybe you could even expand it to hunger and thrist, where if one member of a team is overly eating/drinking (not hoarding) whilst your charcter was dying of hunger/thirst, gave you grounds for killing/stealing(if a stealing mechanic is developed that is)

[cal (DayZ) 1]

Disagree with this post - shock/flinching - should not be automated. More than likely you yourself are all ready panicking trying to find out where the bullets/bullet are coming from. No need with this kind of perma-death.

It should not be automated that you character is a little bitch.

I do think though that you should not be able to get charged whit a "murder" while in "shock" because most often the reason for being in shock is that somebody shot at you.