Feature: Replace infection with 'Zombism' infection.

[7-75 callaghan 43]

I know this seems like a repeat thread, but i'd like to address two issues with one to fix what seems to be a bunch of highly unwanted issues, and replace them with a desirable mechanic that will add to the gameplay, as opposed to just complicating it further without adding depth or fun. Sorry for the long read, but it deals with a lot of complicated mechanics.

My suggestion is this - Get rid of the regular infection that can be picked up if the player gets too cold, and replace it with Zombism using the same mechanic, keeping the antibiotics and function of temperature.

In detail: There is a low (less than 1% when healthy, increasing if your temperature is too low by an increasing rate, i.e. up to maybe 50% chance if minimum temp, in combination with hungry and/or thirsty i.e. cold and sick, with immune system down) chance you can be given the 'Zombism' infection by a Zed if you are successfully hit by one when bleeding (ofc these details are open to suggestion and tweaking for balance and realism).

You eventually, after an amount of time that would need to be agreed on, but I suggest 4-6 gameplay hours, would turn into a Zombie. Over this course of time there would be various symptoms and stages, starting with coughing/sneezing, then less-human sounds such as almost zombie like moans/grunting, screen FX (maybe a red or green filter), and eventually sounds closer to those made by Zeds, with the movement animation being affected to be halfway between human and Zed. The infection would remain contagious, so they would still be shunned by people other than very loyal followers. (I experienced this in another ArmA zombie mod a while back with a bunch of friends, and it was very tense after being bitten, waiting to see whether they would let me fight alongside them, needing the extra help, or just put a bullet in my head then and there!)

If antibiotics are not applied during this transitional phase, then the infection would turn the player into a Zombie, their equipment would be force dropped, they would acquire the Zeds movement animations and sounds, and would have a screen post-process filter that not only hinders sight to a limited extent, but perhaps also 'highlights' the living, something similar to FLIR/predator-vision, but not quite as clear or effective.

There are many details involved, so don't take my suggestion as some kind of monolith at face value, I think the basic premise addresses a bunch of things that people don't like with the current mechanic of infection, while adding the highly-desired playable Zombie mode.

My personal reasons for wanting this - the current infection system adds a survival challenge that is not fun in any way, considering how rare antibiotics are. The player would still have to protect themselves from the elements and keep warm or risk a much higher chance of being infected. The antibiotic spawn rate would not have to be changed as the danger would be equally high, if not higher, but also add gameplay to the mod as a Zed. Some might argue that people will then try to become Zeds, and some would, but not many, and not many experienced players, as several hours of gameplay would have to be suffered with the symptoms before finally 'turning', the coughing etc would attract more Zeds, so the likelihood is that only experienced players, more intent on curing the disease, would survive long enough to turn.

Furthermore, this would replace the need to add 'super zombies'/other enemy types, with faulty AI etc., as instead we would have intelligent zombies that add a truly scary threat across all areas of the map. Whether they should be able to log out and continue later, or simply die and respawn after logging out, is not something I have given enough thought to to say now.

Thoughts/feelings?

Edit - after considering feedback, and unless many people really think this mod would be better with the suggested playable zombie idea, i'd like to add that I think it better, at least for increasing the likelihood of introducing this without changing too much of the current game concept, to modify this idea to apply 'alexander_q''s idea that the player, once turning Zed, is not controllable by the player, but becomes a regular AI zed. This maintains all of the tensions that make the idea interesting in the first place, but without complicating the discussion with whether or not Zombies should be playable or not.

[speca 193]

Love it, could also maybe once the player dies to have an option to turn into an infected? Like in "The Walking Dead"? Once you die you become a zombie, i think that would be pretty cool, it maybe takes 5 minutes? So the person that killed you (If you died via player) he/she has a chance to loot you.

[joaby 25]

I don't think players should be zombies. The thing about zombies is that they are an absence of humanity. Sentience, emotion, logic, all the things that make us human - a zombie is the diametric opposite of this. This is what makes the zombie good for its primary purpose - as a counter-point to the slowly diminishing humanity present in the survivors around us. Zombie literature/media uses the zombie to draw a line in the sand - when a person crosses that line, should they even live any more?

The concept of the player zombie is counter to this in every way, for what I think are obvious reasons. DayZ is the only zombie game I've ever played (and I've played most of them) where the focus isn't on the zombies but on the real point of the zombie phenomenon... the interactions between humans with the infected creating a threatening atmosphere impeding survival.

[alexander_q 6]

I like the idea of players becoming infected, but don't think we should allow them to play as zombies. I'd prefer to see the message "you are dead" displayed at the top of the screen, but be able to continue to watch as my zombified-character proceeds to do what zombies do, completely outside of my control.

I would make the infection based on hunger/thirst/temperature as you suggest, but also on the number of players killed, and have a large random element, so you, and especially your teammates, will not know if/when you are going to turn.

I've enjoyed many of your suggestions Callaghan, keep them coming.

[joaby 25]

That's a great tweak on the idea, alexander_q. It'd also force groups of players to make that terrible decision when they realise they haven't any antibiotics - but a solo player might wind up leaving a zombie in the middle of a forest somewhere.

[7-75 callaghan 43]

I don't think players should be zombies. The thing about zombies is that they are an absence of humanity. Sentience' date=' emotion, logic, all the things that make us human - a zombie is the diametric opposite of this. This is what makes the zombie good for its primary purpose - as a counter-point to the slowly diminishing humanity present in the survivors around us. Zombie literature/media uses the zombie to draw a line in the sand - when a person crosses that line, should they even live any more?

The concept of the player zombie is counter to this in every way, for what I think are obvious reasons. DayZ is the only zombie game I've ever played (and I've played most of them) where the focus isn't on the zombies but on the real point of the zombie phenomenon... the interactions between humans with the infected creating a threatening atmosphere impeding survival.

[/quote']

I appreciate your point, but I think, for reasons I have already described, that it would add greatly to the tensions of the 'breakdown of society' element. Not least by having a member of your group being infected suddenly being a danger, playing on trust, while at the same time appealing to empathy and sympathy.

On the other hand, the next comment raises a good point, so I will address the other option in my reply to that, and consider that option too, because it removes the Zombie-player element whilst maintaining the overall idea.

---

I like the idea of players becoming infected' date=' but don't think we should allow them to play as zombies. I'd prefer to see the message "you are dead" displayed at the top of the screen, but be able to continue to watch as my zombified-character proceeds to do what zombies do, completely outside of my control.

I would make the infection based on hunger/thirst/temperature as you suggest, but also on the number of players killed, and have a large random element, so you, and especially your teammates, will not know if/when you are going to turn.

I've enjoyed many of your suggestions Callaghan, keep them coming.

[/quote']

This is a good alternative that doesn't change the game drastically, whilst maintaining all of the tension and decision-making problems that made me come up with the idea in the first place. The humanity affecting the chance of being infected would also be cool, but I have a feeling many will oppose that detail. The zombie being left wandering the forest is very cool I think, as per the walking dead, it would mean that there is a very rare chance of finding one in a strange location, greatly adding to the fear, and removing the sense of it being a game where the system becomes clear after a few hours of gameplay. Subtlety, that is what Rocket has always gone for.

I would be happy with either option being introduced.

Thanks for the feedback both of you.

[ispudgun 1]

I definitely think this is one of the better suggestions. My only suggestion would be...

Don't make it too easy to get infected. I would rather play the mod as a survivor than a zombie and would seriously be put off the mod if there was a high chance that I could become a zombie (Even if it was after 5-6 hours gameplay) It would still annoy me having the negative effects of being infected.

Just some food for thought.

[Lapis 4]

I can see this as a great mechanic, But it would be abused beyond belief...You get your newly spawned charecter killed and use him as a free cam really. And if the ability to control it was enabled then that would be worse. But still it is a pretty awesome idea!

[7-75 callaghan 43]

I can see this as a great mechanic' date=' But it would be abused beyond belief...You get your newly spawned charecter killed and use him as a free cam really. And if the ability to control it was enabled then that would be worse. But still it is a pretty awesome idea!

[/quote']

That is why I have withdrawn the controllable aspect hehe. Too much baggage that comes with it.

And you couldn't get your newly spawned character killed to use as a free cam, the process takes hours, and the cam, if there was one, would not be free. So I don't think there is any room for abuse at all.

[Serrath 0]

Removing regular infection/disease goes against the survival aspect of the game that ROCKET's trying to push. Regular infection/disease MUST stay. If you want the zombie virus to be contagious, it would have to be an additional type of infection that may occur.

Personally, I'd like to see every zombie attack infect the victim and they've got maybe 2-8 ingame hours to get medicine before they succumb.

[DemonGroover 8836]

I suppose Rocket has a 'story' in his head of what the infection is and how it is transmitted and whether the player is immune or not, but it would defintely up the tension if there was a small chance of getting infected.

The problem with this is how do you get cured? Surely if all it took was a few antibiotics the world wouldnt have gone to shit in the first place.

Infection should be a death sentence.

[alexander_q 6]

The problem with this is how do you get cured? Surely if all it took was a few antibiotics the world wouldnt have gone to shit in the first place.

Infection should be a death sentence.

You raise a good point. I think that infection should have a strong random element. You may display many symptoms of infection, but you will never know if/when you will become a full-blown zombie. There would be nothing you could do to cure yourself - some people would succumb, others simply wouldn't.

[nacrom 82]

Removing regular infection/disease goes against the survival aspect of the game that ROCKET's trying to push. Regular infection/disease MUST stay. If you want the zombie virus to be contagious' date=' it would have to be an additional type of infection that may occur.

Personally, I'd like to see every zombie attack infect the victim and they've got maybe 2-8 ingame hours to get medicine before they succumb.

[/quote']

Exactly. And aren't we survivors the "lucky ones" with some rare gene making us immune to the zombie infection?

[7-75 callaghan 43]

Removing regular infection/disease goes against the survival aspect of the game that ROCKET's trying to push. Regular infection/disease MUST stay. If you want the zombie virus to be contagious' date=' it would have to be an additional type of infection that may occur.

Personally, I'd like to see every zombie attack infect the victim and they've got maybe 2-8 ingame hours to get medicine before they succumb.

[/quote']

Exactly. And aren't we survivors the "lucky ones" with some rare gene making us immune to the zombie infection?

Personally i'm happy to have both infections in there, but most dont like the current system.

And no, there is nothing to suggest immunity so far, nothing at all.

[Roshi (DayZ) 397]

Have them both. Not knowing if a teammate has a bug that can be cured by antibiotics ior whether they have zombie infection where they gradually turn into a zed, and suddenly attack you - would be awesome!