Feedback about shootgun. Another frustrating episode

[MarchmelloMan 16]

@MarchmelloMan

 

The shotgun should not only be effective at 1-5 meters. It should be very deadly up to 60 meters. And even beyond this range it should still be able to kill or wound people.

 

But there have also ben a lot of reports by people who where shot or did shoot others on very close ranges like <10 meters and survived or failed to kill their target.

This is pretty odd and given the amounts of reports they might have a point.

 

 

You are right, but the thing is.. people only complain when something is not working the way they want it. Meaning, they don't open a thread named "Hey guys, the shotgun is functioning wonderful!" and want to tell about it. 

And since the shotgun is only for very close range and it is not easy to hit with it, lots of people dont come along with it.

 

Making it effective for higher ranges, it wouldn't be much different than the SKS, Blaze 95 or M4. Since it naturally sprays it can't kill or do much harm in middle range.

Edited May 4, 2014 by MarchmelloMan

[Buffaloe 87]

 

You are right, but the thing is.. people only complain when something is not working the way they want it. Meaning, they don't open a thread named "Hey guys, the shotgun is functioning wonderful!" and want to tell about it.

 

Well, there wouldn't be much point in prasing everything that works well. Pointing out problems is way more important than giving praise.

 

 

 

Making it effective for higher ranges, it wouldn't be much different than the SKS, Blaze 95 or M4. Since it naturally sprays it can't kill or do much harm in middle range.

 

Well, of course the shotgun is meant for short ranges and should be limited to these in it's effectiveness.But everything under 100 meters can be considered short range.

 

Rifles, like the ones you managed are accurate up to several houndred meters (not taking into account the random dispersion we got atm).

So even if buckshot was effective up to 60-100 m it would still be radically different from regular rifles.

[GunnyITA 107]

Well, there wouldn't be much point in prasing everything that works well. Pointing out problems is way more important than giving praise.

 

 

 

Well, of course the shotgun is meant for short ranges and should be limited to these in it's effectiveness.But everything under 100 meters can be considered short range.

 

Rifles, like the ones you managed are accurate up to several houndred meters (not taking into account the random dispersion we got atm).

So even if buckshot was effective up to 60-100 m it would still be radically different from regular rifles.

 

 

the problem is that even if we talk about 60-100 metres, that would be a miracle.....but the problem is that  neither 100% sure to work properly within 30 metres.....as declared to be effective within 50....and all engagements i had were between 5 and 20 metres.....

 

So sad... :(

Edited May 4, 2014 by GunnyITA

[Buffaloe 87]

Yea, the seemingly random damage people are experiencing even at extremely short ranges is the core problem.

 

I simply pointed out what should be a reasonable effective range for a shotgun since there seemed to be some confusion.

[-DMG-Jonesy 226]

Well, I nearly killed my friend yesterday from a fairly good distance with one shell of buckshot.

4:30

[UltimateGentleman 355]

What like is your internet connection and how many people were in the server? I haven't used a shotgun much myself but the few times I have on people they've been ok, but I never use them on highly populated servers so there's not much lag.

 

 

Anything less than 20m should be one hit kill though or one hit incapacitation.

I think it would be better if they just added another shotgun right now, maybe a Trench Gun? It could be a bit more accurate, have a bigger clip but do slightly less damage.

It doesn't seem to me like it's universally broken there's probably other factors like lag making it suck for some people.

Maybe they could either increase the spread of make the spread more saturated with pellets for assured hits?

[MarchmelloMan 16]

Well, there wouldn't be much point in prasing everything that works well. Pointing out problems is way more important than giving praise.

 

That was not my point. I just explained, that you don't get a valid picture of the situation if people only post about things, that don't work the way they want it. That doesn't mean that the tool is inaccurate, it could just mean that they don't know how to use it correctly, even more, if it is not easy to use.

 

And no, a shotgun should not be precise in 60-100 metres, and most people don't get a kill with SKS or M4 at a several hundred metres, it is much too hard to aim on that range plus the target will just flee and you have to get closer. Of course, possible. But after far over 100 fights, I got really rarely shot above that range if not by a Mosin with a LRS or you have someone standing still (logging out or afk).

 

So I think the shotgun is fine and it gets your target killed in close range (indoor), plus it functions just like in reality. Hard pew in very close and sprays a lot in higher range.

[Bororm 1156]

That's part of the issue that people are stating MarchmelloMan, that the shotgun is even unreliable at close range.

 

Also, the fact that people rarely shoot each other past 100m with anything but long range scopes is in large part due to the fact that all the guns are fucked with horrible variance in accuracy.  There's a lot of other factors as well, such as lag and bullet speed etc.  The game is a mess all around for all guns imo.

[Bororm 1156]

Just shot a guy full on, at least 90% of pellets hitting on both shots point blank, and he didn't die.  Had to hack him to death with my machete.

 

Of course I also 1 shot a couple guys as well.

 

The damage is just so random.

[Buffaloe 87]

Well, that explains why some people say it's fine and some say it's totally broken.

 

Those who say it's fine probably had the better of luck while those who complain about the shotty to be broken didn't.

 

 

 

 

 

Just shot a guy full on, at least 90% of pellets hitting on both shots point blank, and he didn't die.  Had to hack him to death with my machete.

 

Was he moving or standing still when you shot him? I wonder what causes the randomness, and lag as well as the weapon/ammo beeing bugged are pretty much the only reasons i can think of.

[Bororm 1156]

First shot he was moving, but only like 5m away and walking slowly.  It broke his legs, so second shot he was hardly moving at all, just crawling a little bit.

He was only wearing a t-shirt too.

 

One of the guys I killed was fully kitted and died in one shot, about the same range.

 

Damage on all guns is very inconsistent I find, and I think lag is a big factor but other things are also at play.  I think the shotgun isn't necessarily any more wonky than other guns per se, but the fact that the way it fires means it's maybe a little more obvious when things do go shifty.  You spray a bunch of pellets and lag/weird damage calculations get thrown in all at once.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Bororm

[Bororm 1156]

I went ahead and did a quick test of some shotgun spreads.  Didn't have a ton of ammo so it was just quick and dirty to get an idea.

30m

50m

15-20m

5-10m

and finally both barrels simultaneous at 30m

 

I personally feel the spread at 30m should be more inline to the one at 20ish.  If you look at the 30 meter spread, at least half the pellets would be hitting outside a human sized target.  You're probably looking more realistically at about 1/4th of them landing.  I suppose the alternative should be an increase in pellet damage, as 50% of them isn't terrible but in my experience individual pellets are rather weak in the SA.  

It may be unrealistic to have that tight of a spread at 30m, but from a balance stand point I believe there should be a slight tweak in either option.

 

For a bit of perspective, 30m is roughly the equivalent of the width of an airfield hanger.

 

Oh and here's a special bonus, for anyone who ever wondered what a blaze rifle firing both barrels at once looks like spread wise

I was really hoping it was gonna be tight and secretly the most awesome weapon to give people a double dose of 7.62.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Bororm

[GunnyITA 107]

Well, that explains why some people say it's fine and some say it's totally broken.

 

Those who say it's fine probably had the better of luck while those who complain about the shotty to be broken didn't.

 

 

I think it is....

[GunnyITA 107]

 

I went ahead and did a quick test of some shotgun spreads.  Didn't have a ton of ammo so it was just quick and dirty to get an idea.

30m

50m

15-20m

5-10m

and finally both barrels simultaneous at 30m

 

I personally feel the spread at 30m should be more inline to the one at 20ish.  If you look at the 30 meter spread, at least half the pellets would be hitting outside a human sized target.  You're probably looking more realistically at about 1/4th of them landing.  I suppose the alternative should be an increase in pellet damage, as 50% of them isn't terrible but in my experience individual pellets are rather weak in the SA.  

It may be unrealistic to have that tight of a spread at 30m, but from a balance stand point I believe there should be a slight tweak in either option.

 

For a bit of perspective, 30m is roughly the equivalent of the width of an airfield hanger.

 

Oh and here's a special bonus, for anyone who ever wondered what a blaze rifle firing both barrels at once looks like spread wise

I was really hoping it was gonna be tight and secretly the most awesome weapon to give people a double dose of 7.62.

 

 

 

Thx you for your really accurate test. And by what i see i guarranty that if that is the spread on the 20 metres...i've hit the target, six times with 3 speedloaders. So there are problems on the hitboxes or else.

 

And if that is the score obtained from 5-10 metres....well if that is, when i was camping in Factory some days ago i don't realize why i've killed  more than someone with 2-3 hits not fully geared up...

Edited May 5, 2014 by GunnyITA

[Iowa23 12]

This game is so based on chance it isn't even funny.

 

Plenty of times I've loaded people up with shotty. They live to fight another day. Seen teammates eat it and come out with a broken leg at best. I've been shot up by M4 and still walked away. Hell, one day as a fresh-spawn, I ate 4 - 5 shots of SKS and about 40 yards. Ran away and patched myself up.

 

It's just who has lady luck on their side.

 

This, also one hit to the chest area indoors has never failed to knock down a player for me.

[irishroy 1347]

up

[MarchmelloMan 16]

Got one-shotted yesterday evening.. guy was 2-3 metres in front of me, had no chance to deal with it.

If I ever see someone again with a shotgun, I'll really have to try to keep a distance.. my M4 is not really worth much against that weapon indoor

[Bororm 1156]

Had some more fights today with my double barrel, died a lot, killed a decent amount of dudes.

 

I'll say that in one fight I was sorta pinned in a shack with 3 guys in varying locations around me, maximum 40m, some closer and there was very little I could do.  I took shots at them all, but if I scored any hits at all they were inconsequential.  Close up, talking sub 10m yeah, the thing works pretty well but anything past 30 I'd say you're effectively throwing a handful of pebbles at people.