Incapacitation/ Kinectic knockdown discussion

[gwartham 13]

Sure (eventhough effect of 9x18 might not be as much different from .380), but once we start considering trauma plates it might get more complicated :)

 

 

 

What were you saying about a 9mm and a .380 again?

[BadAsh (DayZ) 1513]

That is a tiny .25 auto or a .380.

 

Imagine he got shot with a +p+ .45 acp round.

 

He would have a few broken ribs and some internal bleeding.

 

They mention .32 several times at the end of the video (can't believe I watched it that far, those guys are very annoying to listen to).

[taco86 156]

 

What were you saying about a 9mm and a .380 again?

9x19 =/= 9x18...

 

9x18 fmj is 95gr at 1050 fps = 231 ft/lbs or 313J

 

9x19 fmj is 115gr at 1300 fps = 420 ft/lbs or 570J

 

.45 acp fmj ball is 230gr at 830 fps = 352 ft/lbs or 477J

 

 

So it's obviously closer to the .380 than the 9x19 you're confusing it with...

Edited May 5, 2014 by taco86

[cuddly_rabbit 102]

Some of the advocates tell me please, what this will add for the game.

How do you think your character should recover from a central-belly hit? Or a "heart hit"?
And what is the difference to the "Black screen, you are dead" solution we have right now?

Does it matter whether you are "bleeding to death" or simply dying?
Does it matter whether your heart was hit or your lung? You are dying anyway (with the medical system we have in DayZ)

I have a hard time seeing the added gameplay advantage that would come with a lot of coding, perhaps even more lag, etc. 

[taco86 156]

Some of the advocates tell me please, what this will add for the game.

How do you think your character should recover from a central-belly hit? Or a "heart hit"?

And what is the difference to the "Black screen, you are dead" solution we have right now?

Does it matter whether you are "bleeding to death" or simply dying?

Does it matter whether your heart was hit or your lung? You are dying anyway (with the medical system we have in DayZ)

I have a hard time seeing the added gameplay advantage that would come with a lot of coding, perhaps even more lag, etc. 

Casualty recovery should be an extremely important portion of the game play as it drives decision making as well as potential player contact...  Currently, it's not, that's the problem...

[blaf 63]

 

 

 

What were you saying about a 9mm and a .380 again?

I would say what Taco already said :)

[gibonez 3633]

They mention .32 several times at the end of the video (can't believe I watched it that far, those guys are very annoying to listen to).

 

he got shot with 11.

[hells high 676]

We had a system kinda like this in a source mod I worked on. Except your character would ragdoll until you recovered.

 

The only thing that might worry me is being locked into an animation like that. You can see even in the first .gif you posted that the guy is able to crawl into the humvee to safety almost immediately after being hit. I might like seeing a knockdown, followed by limited movement, and obviously bleeding, but being locked into that wounded animation would be yet another clunky ARMA regression I feel.

[makomachine 263]

No safety glasses, no shielding, no problem.... To the man in the video - "Darwin has an award waiting for you"

[gibonez 3633]

We had a system kinda like this in a source mod I worked on. Except your character would ragdoll until you recovered.

 

The only thing that might worry me is being locked into an animation like that. You can see even in the first .gif you posted that the guy is able to crawl into the humvee to safety almost immediately after being hit. I might like seeing a knockdown, followed by limited movement, and obviously bleeding, but being locked into that wounded animation would be yet another clunky ARMA regression I feel.

 

The clunky animation is the incapacitation animation it simulates being hit in a critical area, going into shock and just being immobile and slowly dying.

 

The kinectic knockdown animation is something else you can recover immediately after that.

[gibonez 3633]

Some of the advocates tell me please, what this will add for the game.

How do you think your character should recover from a central-belly hit? Or a "heart hit"?

And what is the difference to the "Black screen, you are dead" solution we have right now?

Does it matter whether you are "bleeding to death" or simply dying?

Does it matter whether your heart was hit or your lung? You are dying anyway (with the medical system we have in DayZ)

I have a hard time seeing the added gameplay advantage that would come with a lot of coding, perhaps even more lag, etc. 

 

What this will add is more situations where a player is not outright killed for his gear.

 

More importantly it will add consistency and realism to the gunplay right now the pvp in the game is so inconsistent that it is borderline shit.

 

Sometimes a single sks shot kills a player other times it takes 3 or more to the same location, there is no consistency at all in the game too much RNG.

 

A incapacitation system would help bring forth uniformity and repeatable results not to mention all of the funny and fun instances that would happen when incapacitated players are taken hostage and once physics and dragging are added they could be loaded in a vehicle and then taken hostage and locked in a base only to be fed periodically.

 

This has happened quite a few times in Rust and these dynamic gameplay situations would really add to the game.

 

Basically Incapacitation as a game mechanic is one of those realism features where the game mirroring real life would add depth to otherwise shallow gameplay.

[Sirwarriant12 94]

I am 100% for this, except for the zombie knock-downs and what not as long as they are faster than us. I would prefer slower zombies in the game, although I've heard Dean wants them to be more like 28 Days/Weeks zombies instead of World War Z styled ones. On players though, go right fucking ahead, I would love it. Would love it on the zeds too as long as they were slower, I don't want 900 super zeds running after me tackling me.

[Jhunt7507 29]

Absolutely that would in my mind be the end game once they get the chest, pelvis, neck, head and limb hit boxes all squared away they can break down those hitboxes into more detailed ones to represent a persons organs and each would have different effects on players.

 

Heart shot with any caliber or weapon = profuse bleeding that will probably end up in death

Neck shot = profuse bleeding

Lung = heavy bleeding and slower speed and shortness of breath

Kidney = bleeding + animation showing you favor that side of the body

 

Etc.

Lung, heart, kidney shots should kill. If someone takes a rifle round to a lung they will remain incapacitated while it fills up with blood and drowns them

[Judopunch 523]

I believe they are adding more 'states' to the damage system. Hopefully this will round it out in the way you hope it will. IE Shot in the lower leg, walk with a limp, shot in the upper leg, unable to walk. Shot in the arm drop what your holding, ect.

 

I dont really think they have done any work on it yet though.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

I believe they are adding more 'states' to the damage system. Hopefully this will round it out in the way you hope it will. IE Shot in the lower leg, walk with a limp, shot in the upper leg, unable to walk. Shot in the arm drop what your holding, ect.

 

I dont really think they have done any work on it yet though.

[Duenan 226]

THIS!

 

being hit by a round is like being hit by a truck- it's gonna knock you on your ass but also generally won't kill you instantly unless its a well placed shot that destroys the brain.

 

With this incapacitation it gives more incentive to actually use the medical equipment- right now theres no purpose to having things like a difibber or even blood bag really because if you get hit you can just patch up and eat some food.

 

Theres no incentive to team up or have a combat medic that can help you

 

This - coupled with dragging bodies would be an excellent addition- just imagine one of your buddies getting hit and you having to drag him to safety  and patch him up

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

THIS!

 

being hit by a round is like being hit by a truck- it's gonna knock you on your ass but also generally won't kill you instantly unless its a well placed shot that destroys the brain.

What?  Bullets cannot knock you off your feet.  That's physically impossible.  Otherwise the person firing would get their ass knocked over.

[ValentinBk (DayZ) 60]

Man, this video is from over an year ago.. How is this still not in the game?

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Man, this video is from over an year ago.. How is this still not in the game?

I couldn't find the write up on it but they apparently had some major issues.

[Whyherro123 2283]

What?  Bullets cannot knock you off your feet.  That's physically impossible.  Otherwise the person firing would get their ass knocked over.

Exactly. The recoil felt by the shooter is generally the same amount of force the shoot-ee(?) feels, as per Newton's 3rd Law.

 

I was a Biology major, not a Physics major, so if I am incorrect, feel free to enlighten me.

[Duenan 226]

What?  Bullets cannot knock you off your feet.  That's physically impossible.  Otherwise the person firing would get their ass knocked over.

I didn't say you would fly off your feet-

 

the kinectic impact is like being hit by a truck in that you will have most definately broken bones, internal injuries- I'm not talking about turning it into the matrix. A good shot to the solar plexus even with plates can still knock the wind out of you- that will bring you to your knees because you can't breath and have broken ribs- not that you'll fly back

Edited November 21, 2014 by Duenan

[Judopunch 523]

Exactly. The recoil felt by the shooter is generally the same amount of force the shoot-ee(?) feels, as per Newton's 3rd Law.

 

I was a Biology major, not a Physics major, so if I am incorrect, feel free to enlighten me.

Thats true. The weight and size of the gun dispurse the load from the explosion. Half of the force pushes the bullet out the barrel and the other half pushes the weapon back.

 

The major difference is, would you rather get hit by a baseball moving at 50mph or a needle? Because the smaller surface area of the bullet it distributes its kinetic energy less at the moment of impact, penetrating, and sending the kinetic shock-wave out through the body in a more focused manor.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

I didn't say you would fly off your feet-

 

the kinectic impact is like being hit by a truck in that you will have most definately broken bones, internal injuries- I'm not talking about turning it into the matrix. A good shot to the solar plexus even with plates can still knock the wind out of you- that will bring you to your knees because you can't breath and have broken ribs- not that you'll fly back

I apologize then but it was your choice of words "Knock you on your ass" that had me assume you meant what it means.

[gibonez 3633]

Lung, heart, kidney shots should kill. If someone takes a rifle round to a lung they will remain incapacitated while it fills up with blood and drowns them

Yes you are right but none of those would kill instantly like the current death mechanics.

All those shots including the heart shot would not be instant deaths the person would die from blood loss extremely fast deaths yes but not instant like the current you are dead screen.

[gibonez 3633]

Exactly. The recoil felt by the shooter is generally the same amount of force the shoot-ee(?) feels, as per Newton's 3rd Law.

I was a Biology major, not a Physics major, so if I am incorrect, feel free to enlighten me.

Yup the force of the bullet is not strong enough to physically knock a person offs his feet.

Yet there are tons of instances of people having that happen.

While I suspect this is mostly due to psychological aspects of receiving an unexpected gunshot it does happen and happens incredibly often in combat footage.