A Karma system to prevent extreme PvP

[Blizzaze 5]

First off, I hope nobody made such a suggestion already. I used the search and the few threads about karma weren't too similar to my idea.

So here's the deal:

To prevent the extreme amount of pointless and "just for fun" player killing that many people complain about at the moment and encourage teamplay I suggest a Karma system.

You start a 0 Karma.

Now, helping other players gives you a Karma point each. Be it bandaging, healing or giving them morphine or even shooting zombies that they aggroed.

The maximum Karma is 100 points and you can gain a maximum of 5 points a day to prevent abuse of the system.

Killing and shooting other players will reset your Karma to 0 if you have a positive count.

If your Karma is 0 or lower, killing others will give you -10 points each, capped at -100 points.

The rewards of Karma are:

- Each point in Karma will let food give you back 5 more blood, resulting in 500 more blood at 100 Karma.

- At the same time each negative point in Karma will result in 5 points less blood per point, resulting in 500 less blood per food item.

- Also, there's different stages that unlock new perks. For example at 50 karma you can get 2 usages out of morphine and at 100 you get 3 additional inventory slots.

- At the same time at -50 Karma you can't receive blood transfusions anymore (especially helpful against gangs of bandits that kill new player for fun)

Of course all this suggestions are only my own thoughts and some might not be balanced, so feel free to contribute.

[Dreganius (DayZ) 55]

The problem with 100 negative karma is that canned food will then give you no blood at all, in fact, unless the blood gain from canned food was buffed to 500 recently, it should make the bandits lose 200 blood. Also, what if a Survivor gets shot at by a Bandit, but the Bandit has poor aim, and the Survivor fires back and kills his attacker? What if two survivors find someone sneaking up on them, gun aimed at them? What if a survivor gets the drop on someone he knows will try to kill him as he's seen him shooting other innocents? The Survivor who kills the Bandit in each scenario then loses all his hard-earned karma instantly due to this. I don't feel that this is appropriate.

Perhaps, instead, you should only lose 5 karma per kill (as srs banditos will still kill fast enough to drop to -100 quickly), none of this 'resetting to 0', because some 'Murders' (not all, definitely not all) are too grey to be called black or white.

Not a bad suggestion, though. If the kill debuff was reduced to 5, it doesn't punish accidental bandits too heavily, and rewards Survivors for being team players.

Although, all this said, I'm still against Bandits being punished.

[Guest]

unrealistic dribble , people will start saying " let's introduce magic " soon.

[Blizzaze 5]

The problem with 100 negative karma is that canned food will then give you no blood at all' date=' in fact, unless the blood gain from canned food was buffed to 500 recently, it should make the bandits lose 200 blood. Also, what if a Survivor gets shot at by a Bandit, but the Bandit has poor aim, and the Survivor fires back and kills his attacker? What if two survivors find someone sneaking up on them, gun aimed at them? What if a survivor gets the drop on someone he knows will try to kill him as he's seen him shooting other innocents? The Survivor who kills the Bandit in each scenario then loses all his hard-earned karma instantly due to this. I don't feel that this is appropriate.

[/quote']

I forgot to mention. If you kill someone with negative karma, you won't get any punishment. This way you can still defend against bandits.

Canned food will just give you zero blood back, just remove hunger. So bandits would need to go hunting a lot to regain blood. This way the amount of loot camping would also be reduced.

unrealistic dribble ' date=' people will start saying " let's introduce magic " soon.

[/quote']

You may laugh, some people actually believe in karma in real life. Anyways, there are alot of factors in the game that are not realistic, for example food giving back blood instantly or morphine magically healing broken legs.

Also, there is a slight difference between realism and logic.

If Arma was set in the future with lasers and spaceships, it wouldn't be logic, but it would still be realistic in a way that guns behave etc.

[Guest]

Morphine exists and so does food allowing more blood to be created ( just slower) whereas karma/psychics/god/herbal remedies / homeopathy are all voodoo fairy magic nonsense.

[jaginun 87]

If you don't like PvP , fine , but don't try and correct it with unrealistic rules and magical laws. The game is made so you aren't restricted to how you play , if people want to do PvP then that's their choice.

To fix PvP , add a feature that is realistic.

[Blizzaze 5]

Tell me a more realistic and balanced system then. Also, I'm not trying to remove PvP, just balance it in a way where people can't run around and kill new players endlessly for the fun of it without any punishment.

By the way, logging out to regain ammunition and escape firefights is not very realistic either. I'm sure you "Carebear killers" do that too. So stop being such a hypocrite.

[jaginun 87]

Tell me a more realistic and balanced system then. Also' date=' I'm not trying to remove PvP, just balance it in a way where people can't run around and kill new players endlessly for the fun of it without any punishment.

By the way, logging out to regain ammunition and escape firefights is not very realistic either. I'm sure you "Carebear killers" do that too. So stop being such a hypocrite.

[/quote']

Make ammunition rarer and zombies more dangerous. Bam , a lot more players teaming up rather than shooting on sight. No one is forcing you to team up, but it's benificial to do so because of the state of the world.

Also , those 2 things aren't features, they're bugs and exploits. I'm pretty sure the developers didn't put those in there , and were not worried about if they were realistic or not.

[Blizzaze 5]

Make ammunition rarer and zombies more dangerous. Bam ' date=' a lot more players teaming up rather than shooting on sight. No one is forcing you to team up, but it's benificial to do so because of the state of the world.

[/quote']

This again would punish players that play a lone wolf style heavily while the Karma system would not have any effect on them.

Also, teaming up isn't beneficial whatsoever right now, since you

a) are slower

b) get less loot per player and use items on others that would have otherwise helped you

c) risk getting betrayed

[Guest]

In a an apocalypse scenario , psychos would probably be the most efficient at survival. Random killings would be all over , dayz is fine the way it is.

[deepfried 95]

If you don't like PvP ' date=' fine , but don't try and correct it with unrealistic rules and magical laws. The game is made so you aren't restricted to how you play , if people want to do PvP then that's their choice.

[/quote']

The whole problem is that people don't really have any choice in the current system, its kill or be killed. That lack of choice is a disservice to the game. Also most of the mechanics that are being suggested do not in any way stop bandits from being kill crazy, its just gives them a disadvantage of some sort for doing it... but they can still choose to do it!

To fix PvP ' date=' add a feature that is realistic.

[/quote']

Perhaps, but its likely we will have to accept something more contrived in the end. Lets wait and see what Rocket comes up with (and I think there will be something before too long).

[deadantelope 0]

In a an apocalypse scenario ' date=' psychos would probably be the most efficient at survival. Random killings would be all over , dayz is fine the way it is.

[/quote']

No it's not. People get killed as soon as they spawn for fun or for the 1 bandage and morphine they possess. And these aren't even hard to come by. How fun do you think this is for them? Take a look at it from where you have nothing. Step into other people's shoes for once.

[jaginun 87]

This again would punish players that play a lone wolf style heavily while the Karma system would not have any effect on them.

Also' date=' teaming up isn't beneficial whatsoever right now, since you

a) are slower

b) get less loot per player and use items on others that would have otherwise helped you

c) risk getting betrayed

[/quote']

Anything that the devs add into the game would be punishing one playstyle or another by that logic. The point is not to deliberatly punish one group or another though an artificial system, just to shape the world and let the players decide how that will affect their own playstyle. There is a difference between punishing and adapting.

a) Yeah , but that amount is negligible. It also depends a lot on the players.

b) You may get less loot but you can also raid twice the area, or one area twice as fast.

c) Depends on the player , I know that 80% of the players that havn't shot me on sight and I have teamed up with do not shoot me on sight. Of course, this is different for different players.

[Guest]

We have all died and has to run to a town for supplies with nothing but a flash light.

It's easy and takes less than a half hour to get fully equipped. If you are uncomfortable with killing , head north. To claim you are forced to kill or be killed is ridiculous since you always have the option to run from trouble.

[Reaps 22]

The PVP is fine in this game, it shouldnt be about punishing one play style whilst promoting another. The game is there for you to play it as you choose.

There just needs to be more co-op styled mechanics which will encourage team play. no matter how brief that co-op may be.

[Guest]

Instead of taking options away you should be adding options in , if people want to kill mindlessly they should be able to and if a tree hugger wants peace and love then he has the option to run north and kill zombies.

[Friend-or-Pho 0]

This again would punish players that play a lone wolf style heavily while the Karma system would not have any effect on them.

Also' date=' teaming up isn't beneficial whatsoever right now, since you

a) are slower

b) get less loot per player and use items on others that would have otherwise helped you

c) risk getting betrayed

[/quote']

No it does not "punish" lone-wolves. To lack the safety in numbers that comes from teamwork is a sacrifice you consciously made when you decide to be a lone-wolf. Having a disadvantage that is inherent to your strategy is different from being punished.

And there are advantages to teaming up:

A. Multiple back-packs to carry gear

B. Sharing of that gear when someone needs it

C. Extra sets of eyes watching your back

D. Extra guns in case of a shootout

E. A buddy who can administor a transfusion

These are all things that you would naturally miss out on if you choose to be a lone-wolf. Choosing the safety of never trusting anyone is a benefit of your play style, but it is incorrect to label any disadvantage as punishment.

[Blizzaze 5]

The PVP is fine in this game' date=' it shouldnt be about punishing one play style whilst promoting another. The game is there for you to play it as you choose.

There just needs to be more co-op styled mechanics which will encourage team play. no matter how brief that co-op may be.

[/quote']

What you don't seem to understand is that at the moment killing others has only benefits to it, while cooperating with others mostly has disadvantages and often gets you betrayed. That's why there needs to be a bigger promotion of coop imo.

[jaginun 87]

The PVP is fine in this game' date=' it shouldnt be about punishing one play style whilst promoting another. The game is there for you to play it as you choose.

There just needs to be more co-op styled mechanics which will encourage team play. no matter how brief that co-op may be.

[/quote']

What you don't seem to understand is that at the moment killing others has only benefits to it, while cooperating with others mostly has disadvantages and often gets you betrayed. That's why there needs to be a bigger promotion of coop imo.

There does need to be promoting of co-op , but how to promote it is the vital part.

[deadantelope 0]

This again would punish players that play a lone wolf style heavily while the Karma system would not have any effect on them.

Also' date=' teaming up isn't beneficial whatsoever right now, since you

a) are slower

b) get less loot per player and use items on others that would have otherwise helped you

c) risk getting betrayed

[/quote']

No it does not "punish" lone-wolves. To lack the safety in numbers that comes from teamwork is a sacrifice you consciously made when you decide to be a lone-wolf. Having a disadvantage that is inherent to your strategy is different from being punished.

And there are advantages to teaming up:

A. Multiple back-packs to carry gear

B. Sharing of that gear when someone needs it

C. Extra sets of eyes watching your back

D. Extra guns in case of a shootout

E. A buddy who can administor a transfusion

These are all things that you would naturally miss out on if you choose to be a lone-wolf. Choosing the safety of never trusting anyone is a benefit of your play style, but it is incorrect to label any disadvantage as punishment.

These are all good reasons to team up and not kill players on sight but if it's not working now then there needs to be better ways of making coop work.

[Reaps 22]

The PVP is fine in this game' date=' it shouldnt be about punishing one play style whilst promoting another. The game is there for you to play it as you choose.

There just needs to be more co-op styled mechanics which will encourage team play. no matter how brief that co-op may be.

[/quote']

What you don't seem to understand is that at the moment killing others has only benefits to it, while cooperating with others mostly has disadvantages and often gets you betrayed. That's why there needs to be a bigger promotion of coop imo.

Oh no, i do understand and admire the reasoning behind it. However, there's multiple reasons to "risk" betrayal by grouping up, as listed above. Blood trasfusions, more backpack space etc etc.

You CHOOSE those risks when you team up with a random person. You've weighed up the pros and cons, and you want to team up.

Much like the lone-wolf bandit choose his path, and the dissadvantage that comes with it. Less pack space, Less security, Lack of bloody transfusion etc etc. There are already inherit pro's and cons to both play styles. There's no more needed.

Just so you know, i'd love to have a more co-op orientated game, but "buffing" good actions and "punishing" bad. Isn't the way to go about it.

Like what has been pointed out, people have the choice to aimlessly kill, or group. Shoe-horning someone in to a play style is completely the opposite of what DayZ is for me.

Some days i'll decide to play a bandit and go hunting folks. Other's i'll group up and help people out. I'd like to play both sides of the spectrum without further penalties.

Again, the only way i can see to promote team work is give us more goals that are only achievable via team work. What they are, i have no idea. But Karma/Side Effects/Skins all that sort of thing, is not the way forward. (for me personally ofc)

[Blizzaze 5]

There does need to be promoting of co-op ' date=' but how to promote it is the vital part.

[/quote']

I agree on that.

But I don't think you can promote PvP via metagame (like making zombies stronger as someone suggested) since that will always have some kind of effect on every playstyle, be it lone wolf, teamwork or bandit.

I rather think Coop needs to have direct advantages, like the small bonus to blood regen I mentioned.

Let's face it, 99% of humans only act a certain way if it benefits themselves (subconsciously) and so we need to add such a benefit.

[Friend-or-Pho 0]

These are all good reasons to team up and not kill players on sight but if it's not working now then there needs to be better ways of making coop work.

I agree completely, and I've suggested possible coop elements before. I was simply making a case against whether or not it is "punishing" lone-wolves.

[foliveira1982@gmail.com 14]

First off' date=' I hope nobody made such a suggestion already. I used the search and the few threads about karma weren't too similar to my idea.

So here's the deal:

To prevent the extreme amount of pointless and "just for fun" player killing that many people complain about at the moment and encourage teamplay I suggest a Karma system.

You start a 0 Karma.

Now, helping other players gives you a Karma point each. Be it bandaging, healing or giving them morphine or even shooting zombies that they aggroed.

The maximum Karma is 100 points and you can gain a maximum of 5 points a day to prevent abuse of the system.

Killing and shooting other players will reset your Karma to 0 if you have a positive count.

If your Karma is 0 or lower, killing others will give you -10 points each, capped at -100 points.

The rewards of Karma are:

- Each point in Karma will let food give you back 5 more blood, resulting in 500 more blood at 100 Karma.

- At the same time each negative point in Karma will result in 5 points less blood per point, resulting in 500 less blood per food item.

- Also, there's different stages that unlock new perks. For example at 50 karma you can get 2 usages out of morphine and at 100 you get 3 additional inventory slots.

- At the same time at -50 Karma you can't receive blood transfusions anymore (especially helpful against gangs of bandits that kill new player for fun)

Of course all this suggestions are only my own thoughts and some might not be balanced, so feel free to contribute.

[/quote']

Hauahuahauhauahuahauaah Horrible, horrible idea.... LMFAO. :)

[Reaps 22]

Constructive as always Krush. where would this community be without such words of wisdom.