Unrealistic Firearms

[schofie1d 24]

..and that is where you lost all possible chance of credibility on this one. 

 

PHYSICS?

 

I already mentioned physics and how it can affect bullets, including different grain loads, different bullet types, wind, gravity, temperature, etc. I already mentioned this and your attempt to discredit me based off your shitty reading is annoying. I am merely saying that your bullet WILL go where your barrel is pointed UNLESS some actual FORCE acts upon it, like PHYSICS. NOT just some random number generator forcing your bullet to travel in a direction it WAS NOT AIMED.

[Katana67 2907]

I am merely saying that your bullet WILL go where your barrel is pointed UNLESS some actual FORCE acts upon it, like PHYSICS. NOT just some random number generator forcing your bullet to travel in a direction it WAS NOT AIMED.

 

Again, personally, I have no issue with the inclusion of random deviation... inasmuch as it is rendered in a "realistic" fashion (i.e. in terms of a MOA measurement and on a small-scale). But now, and in a lot of games, it's just way overdone as to remove any semblance of "skill" or "aim" from the player.

 

Firearms do have natural deviation, but it's usually negligible inside of their effective ranges.

[schofie1d 24]

Again, personally, I have no issue with the inclusion of random deviation... inasmuch as it is rendered in a "realistic" fashion (i.e. in terms of a MOA measurement and on a small-scale). But now, and in a lot of games, it's just way overdone as to remove any semblance of "skill" or "aim" from the player.

 

Firearms do have natural deviation, but it's usually negligible inside of their effective ranges.

 

I agree whole-heartedly, and they could even theoretically have better quality ammo to be found that would have less 'natural deviation', as some hunting/high-performance loads have IRL.

 

My issue is that deviation is SO bad that it would be BETTER to remove it completely than try to represent it in the game. It would definitely be better than how it is now.

Edited April 21, 2014 by schofie1d

[gibonez 3633]

Again, personally, I have no issue with the inclusion of random deviation... inasmuch as it is rendered in a "realistic" fashion (i.e. in terms of a MOA measurement and on a small-scale). But now, and in a lot of games, it's just way overdone as to remove any semblance of "skill" or "aim" from the player.

 

Firearms do have natural deviation, but it's usually negligible inside of their effective ranges.

 

Yea this completely.

 

Guns deviate even without wind being a factor.

 

This natural deviation in a mosin is what causes it to shoot 6 foot groups at 800m while a far more precise platform like a remington 700 can shoot a 10 inch group at the same range.

[pale1776 375]

Unrealistic guns in video games?! Unheard of!! In all seriousness though i agree with you but unrealistic guns in video games wont be changing anytime soon. Although i really want to shoot an arrow out of a shotgun.... how's that for realism?

FPSRussia does it :P

And OP, its not deviation for characyer, its deviation on the condition of the gun. A rusy old barrel thats warped (badly damaged) is far less accurate then a brand new (pristine) barrel. And bullet condition, banged up, grimy old rounds (badly damaged) dont burn powder as evenly, may not be precisely balanced, as a brand new (pristine) bullet would.

THAT my friend, is realism

P.S You better hope they dont add in ammo quality (russian surplus versus Match grade Western ammo)

[Murlough 192]

FPSRussia does it :P

And OP, its not deviation for characyer, its deviation on the condition of the gun. A rusy old barrel thats warped (badly damaged) is far less accurate then a brand new (pristine) barrel. And bullet condition, banged up, grimy old rounds (badly damaged) dont burn powder as evenly, may not be precisely balanced, as a brand new (pristine) bullet would.

THAT my friend, is realism

P.S You better hope they dont add in ammo quality (russian surplus versus Match grade Western ammo)

Lol FPSrussia is awesome! Thats actually what i was referencing xD.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

FPSRussia does it :P

And OP, its not deviation for characyer, its deviation on the condition of the gun. A rusy old barrel thats warped (badly damaged) is far less accurate then a brand new (pristine) barrel. And bullet condition, banged up, grimy old rounds (badly damaged) dont burn powder as evenly, may not be precisely balanced, as a brand new (pristine) bullet would.

THAT my friend, is realism

P.S You better hope they dont add in ammo quality (russian surplus versus Match grade Western ammo)

That's the huge problem, even a pristine, "fully-upgraded" M4A1 still shoots worse than a Brown Bess musket that was broken in half and filled with cement. I wouldn't be surprised if you tried to shoot someone point blank with the gun and the bullet travelled back through the barrel to avoid actually landing on target.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Chaingunfighter

[gibonez 3633]

That's the huge problem, even a pristine, "fully-upgraded" M4A1 still shoots worse than a Brown Bess musket that was broken in half and filled with cement. I wouldn't be surprised if you tried to shoot someone point blank with the gun and the bullet travelled back through the barrel to avoid actually landing on target.

Not only is it super inaccurate when you actually connect with a person it does minimal baby damage.

A 223 to the chest will incapacitate a person regardless of soft body armor or not.

A single m4 shot to the chest should knock a player out.

[hellcat420 212]

There is a major problem with accuracy and damage of firearms in this game.

 

1. If the barrel of a weapon is pointed in a direction, the bullet fired from that weapon WILL GO where the barrel is aimed. THERE IS NO DEVIATION IRL.

Deviation is a pathetic, old attempt at compensating for how inaccurate some humans can be with firearms. Yes, I get it, "we are average citizens thrown into a zombie end-of-dayz situation." That does not mean that all of a sudden, bullets do not go where a barrel is pointed.

 

The developers NEED to get rid of ALL DEVIATION, and replace it with sights that SWAY MORE. THIS is how it looks in real life if you are innacurate.

ALSO, if you really feel the need to make players even more inaccurate, introduce a type of 'trigger twitch' where the player jerks the rifle to the bottom-left or something similar right as he fires, but this NEEDS to be shown as the sights jerking to the place the bullet is going to land. (obviously range is going to bring the bullet down depending on distance)

 

 

2. Damage from firearms in this game is absolutely insane. Rifle rounds will TEAR RIGHT THROUGH ANY ITEMS YOU HAVE, including your clothes, if it is NOT MADE OUT OF BULLET RESISTANT MATERIAL.

Seriously, items should NOT reduce rifle round damage except for the exceptional FLUKE of maybe hitting your pistol, and even that is debatable. Pistol rounds are a different story, but seriously rifles in this game do NOT reflect the energy transferred or damage to flesh/bone done in REAL LIFE.

 

There is no reason for this unrealistic approach, and I feel too many people who do not actually own firearms in real life and use them consistently are putting in too much ignorant input that sadly the devs are listening to.

 

 

TLDR; GET RID OF DEVIATION COMPLETELY AND IMPROVE RIFLE DAMAGE

dude, bullets are not laserbeams. bullets have deviation in flight, which is caused by a number of different factors. bullets do not fly in an exact straight line, or follow an identical path from the barrel to the target, even if the firearm is not even moved a micron between shots. however, the accuracy of the firearms needs some work in this game.

[hellcat420 212]

Not only is it super inaccurate when you actually connect with a person it does minimal baby damage.

A 223 to the chest will incapacitate a person regardless of soft body armor or not.

A single m4 shot to the chest should knock a player out.

that is not true. sometimes, yes a 5.56 shot to the chest could incapacitate someone, but it is not guaranteed, especially with the current ammunition the military uses. search youtube, there are plenty of vids of people being shot by an m16/m4 and then running away. to be perfectly honest, your better off not wearing body armor and being shot by a 5.56 nato round, as the round will punch right through your body causing minimal damage(unless a vital organ or artery is hit). the current 5.56 ammo that is used by military is designed to be used on people who are wearing body armor, which means there is a much, much smaller chance of the round breaking apart or tumbling once it enters your body if you are unarmored.

[gwartham 13]

that is not true. sometimes, yes a 5.56 shot to the chest could incapacitate someone, but it is not guaranteed, especially with the current ammunition the military uses. search youtube, there are plenty of vids of people being shot by an m16/m4 and then running away. to be perfectly honest, your better off not wearing body armor and being shot by a 5.56 nato round, as the round will punch right through your body causing minimal damage(unless a vital organ or artery is hit). the current 5.56 ammo that is used by military is designed to be used on people who are wearing body armor, which means there is a much, much smaller chance of the round breaking apart or tumbling once it enters your body if you are unarmored.

 

You sir, do not know what your talking about.

 

The whole point of the 5.56 round is its tumble and fragmentation, hence why it is a "center mass" round. The odds of the round not hitting something on its path inducing tumble and fragmentation is pretty slim.

 

While the round does not transfer kinetic energy into a "knockout" hit, the damage the round does is rather impressive. Most people aren't gonna sprint away with a round or 2 in their chest, and it sure as hell aint gonna take a dozen of em to do their job.

 

What is the biggest bane of the 5.56 round? EXTERNAL CLOTHING. The round hitting anything "solid" will immediately cause the round to fragment most of the time, thus saving the victim from the grievous cavitation wound. Next time your at a range put a sheet of hard plastic in front of your target and then something behind it to catch the splinters, you will see what I mean. So I guess this could explain taking more hits in this game as most of us has several layers of crap on our chest area.

 

As for accuracy of guns in this game? Its laughable. Forget the Mosin at 600m has a 3 to 4 second travel time in this game *laugh* . Its a hundred dollar gun in most states, and I have literally taken ww2 cosmoline sealed mosins, washed em down, still ratty as hell using old surplus ammo and still popped 2 liter bottles at 200m.

 

Even the cheapest AR I have owned, like a S&W M&P or a DPMS Sportacle, if I cant get a 1inch grouping immediately with the thing at 100m it goes back.

 

The whole point of mass production firearms is to remove the "deviation" of a hand built gun.

 

It doesn't take some hard core ex millitary sf guy to center mass some nit with a ar, why the hell do you think we give them to our millitary in the first place?

Edited April 26, 2014 by gwartham

[gibonez 3633]

that is not true. sometimes, yes a 5.56 shot to the chest could incapacitate someone, but it is not guaranteed, especially with the current ammunition the military uses. search youtube, there are plenty of vids of people being shot by an m16/m4 and then running away. to be perfectly honest, your better off not wearing body armor and being shot by a 5.56 nato round, as the round will punch right through your body causing minimal damage(unless a vital organ or artery is hit). the current 5.56 ammo that is used by military is designed to be used on people who are wearing body armor, which means there is a much, much smaller chance of the round breaking apart or tumbling once it enters your body if you are unarmored.

 

You might not be immediately incapacitated but within a few minutes you will be on the ground.

 

I cannot imagine any situation where someone shoots me directly in the chest and I am still standing a few minutes later.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOYPxiRldaE

 

I cant picture myself taking one of those to the chest , perhaps my gut but noway in my chest.

[cuddly_rabbit 102]

The more shots miss, then better the atmosphere of the standoffs.
A gunfight is not tense when it ends in second 1.
It however is tense when you hear the close misses and when you can stay in it for a significant period of time.

How it is done (via movement of the sights or deviation) I do not care much, to be honest.

Gun damage... I do not know. It can never be made realistic. You cannot "heal" a gunshot wound like we can. You cannot survive most hits by a gun under the circumstances we have in DayZ. Do we want the game to be that deadly? Bleeding to death internally after being shot? Permanent disabilities after being maimed? There will always be a degree of lack of realism. Gameplay demands it somehow,

[Pandema 352]

I sincerely hope they change the way guns work in this game.

 

Seriously, prone with a bipod and not dying of exhaustion I can't hit a zombie at 200m because the bullets fly out of the barrel at 30 degree angles to random points in my FOV.

Guns don't just randomly spew bullets, everything that can affect the trajectory of a bullet can be accounted and compensated for, if they want to simulate us being untrained civvies in a post-apoc situation make the gun sway(read "move side to side not bounce around randomly") more and increase recoil because we're not trained to compensate for it on our owns.

 

Less arcade-y bullshit and more realism

[gibonez 3633]

Gun damage... I do not know. It can never be made realistic. You cannot "heal" a gunshot wound like we can. You cannot survive most hits by a gun under the circumstances we have in DayZ. Do we want the game to be that deadly? Bleeding to death internally after being shot? Permanent disabilities after being maimed? There will always be a degree of lack of realism. Gameplay demands it somehow,

 

I would settle for a more robust bleeding mechanic that is complex it does not need to overly complicated.

 

Each weapon depending on the caliber causes a different gravity of bleeding.

 

Rifle rounds cause severe bleeding along with good damage.

 

Shots to the neck and heart cause massive bleeding,

 

Shots to the chest cause huge bleeding

 

Shots the pelvis cause normal bleeding

 

shots to the extremities cause little bleeding.

 

 

In order to stop bleeding you need to apply multiple rags.

 

A single rag cannot stop most injuries except for minor melee ones.